Iran and transsexuality

[Remus Bleys]

I'm used to trans* "rights" being heavily connected to "gay rights," so, what's up with Iran and Transsexuality? I've read that Iran preforms the second most amount of sex reassignment surgery, recognizes transsexuality on a birth certificate and pays for half the cost. But given its extremely homophobic policies, I can't help but feel something more sinister is going on.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I'm used to trans* "rights" being heavily connected to "gay rights," so, what's up with Iran and Transsexuality? I've read that Iran preforms the second most amount of sex reassignment surgery, recognizes transsexuality on a birth certificate and pays for half the cost. But given its extremely homophobic policies, I can't help but feel something more sinister is going on.

That is because the reasoning behind it is really not for pro-trans reasons. The Iranian government will help with all that only if the person is transitioning is attracted to opposite sex to the sex they are transitioning to. This is not a pro-trans policy this is an anti-gay policy. The Iranian government sees this as one less homosexual not a "we love transfolks" viewpoint. So like, fuck the Iranian government...
...okay fuck all government for that matter.

[Remus Bleys]

Yes I figured that but I guess I'm looking into more of how these people are actually treated in their day to day lives both pre and post operation, and what kind of effect does this have on the gay male who undergoes the surgery simply to not face legal problems, and how many people actually go through with the sex change even if they don't identify as a woman. And the why? Why is transsexuality seen by the state as such a better alternative to homosexuality.

[BolshevikBabe]

Just cultural values. Transsexuality being seen as "worse" than homosexuality is largely something that's predominant in the West, in many other countries it's the other way round.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Just cultural values. Homosexuality being seen as "worse" than transsexuality is largely something that's predominant in the West
I think you have that backwards.

[BolshevikBabe]

I think you have that backwards.

Why? From what I've experienced (as someone who's both homosexual and transgender), transphobia is far more universal and "acceptable" in Britain/America

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Why? From what I've experienced (as someone who's both homosexual and transgender), transphobia is far more universal and "acceptable" in Britain/America
The way you phrased it, it sounded like you were saying that homophobia was more acceptable than transphobia in the West.

[BolshevikBabe]

The way you phrased it, it sounded like you were saying that homophobia was more acceptable than transphobia in the West.

Oh right, I put it the wrong way round, oops

[Rottenfruit]

I'm used to trans* "rights" being heavily connected to "gay rights," so, what's up with Iran and Transsexuality? I've read that Iran preforms the second most amount of sex reassignment surgery, recognizes transsexuality on a birth certificate and pays for half the cost. But given its extremely homophobic policies, I can't help but feel something more sinister is going on.
My grandmother who was navive and igorant about gays(not homophobic she did not hate them) thought all homosexuals were like women and thus would all want a sex change to be women , in Iran its probably that view + violent homophobia

[Slavic]

My grandmother who was navive and igorant about gays(not homophobic she did not hate them) thought all homosexuals were like women and thus would all want a sex change to be women , in Iran its probably that view + violent homophobia


It follows along the old binary sexual attraction stuff. Only men are attracted to women and only women are attracted to men, and if a man is attracted to another man then he must be a woman etc.

I guess its easier for those who hold backwards views of sexual attraction/identity to come to the conclusion that a man who is attracted to another man was just born with the wrong gender. This allows those who hold these views to state that homosexuality doesn't exist such as Iran does.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483746/We-dont-gays-Iran-Iranian-president-tells-Ivy-League-audience.html

[Tim Cornelis]

Yes I figured that but I guess I'm looking into more of how these people are actually treated in their day to day lives both pre and post operation, and what kind of effect does this have on the gay male who undergoes the surgery simply to not face legal problems, and how many people actually go through with the sex change even if they don't identify as a woman. And the why? Why is transsexuality seen by the state as such a better alternative to homosexuality.

I kinda assume you have consulted the wikipedia article. So I don't understand why you still have that question. It answers it.


Khomeini's original fatwa has since been reconfirmed by the current leader of Iran, Ali Khamenei, and is also supported by many other Iranian clerics.[1] However, there is still a great deal of stigma attached to the idea of transsexualism and gender reassignment in ordinary Iranian society, and most transsexuals, after completing their transition, are advised to maintain discretion about their past.[1] Once a transsexual individual has undergone sex reassignment, that person legally becomes the new sex. All legal documents, such as birth certificates and passports, are also changed accordingly.[1]
Hojatoleslam Kariminia, a mid-level cleric who is in favor of transsexual rights, has stated that he wishes "to suggest that the right of transsexuals to change their gender is a human right" and that he is attempting to "introduce transsexuals to the people through my work and in fact remove the stigma or the insults that is attach to these people."[2]
UNHCR's 2001 report says that sex reassignment surgery is performed frequently and openly in Iran, and that homosexual and cross-dressing people, although unrelated to transsexualism[dubious – discuss], would be safe as long as they keep a low profile.[3] However, the Safra Project's 2004 report considers UNHCR's report over-optimistic. The Safra Project's report suggests that UNHCR underestimated legal pressure over transsexual and LGBT matters.[citation needed]
The report further states that currently, it is not possible for presumed transsexual individuals to choose not to undergo surgery - if they are approved for sex reassignment, they are expected to undergo treatment immediately. Those who wish to remain "non-operative" (as well as those who cross-dress and/or identify as genderqueer) are considered their biological gender, and as such they are likely to face harassment as being homosexuals and subject to the same laws barring homosexual acts.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran#Present_day


Although homosexual relationships are illegal (punishable by death) in Iran, sex reassignment operations are permitted. In 1983, Islamic leader Ayatollah Khomeini passed a fatwa allowing sex-change operations as a cure for "diagnosed transsexuals".[3] Be Like Others shows the experiences of male and female patients at Dr. Bahram Mir-Jalali's Mirdamad Surgical Centre, a sex-reassignment clinic in Tehran.[4] One of them is Ali Askar, a 24 year-old man who faces harassment from other men due to his feminine appearance and behaviour. He does not want to become a woman but sees no other options for him in Iranian society. He decides to go ahead with the surgery despite death threats from his father and finds support from Vida, a post-operative transsexual he meets at the clinic. By the end of the film, Ali has become a woman named Negar. She has been disowned by her family, experienced depression and has had to work as a prostitute. 20 year-old Anoosh is another young man who has been ostracised due to his femininity. His boyfriend feels more comfortable when Anoosh dresses as a woman, and in contrast to Ali, Anoosh's mother is supportive of his desire to change sex. The end of the film shows Anoosh – now Anahita – happy and engaged to her boyfriend. However, her boyfriend has become increasingly distant since Anahita had her surgery.[3][5]
Throughout the film, the patients of the sex-reassignment clinic assert that they are not homosexual, seeing homosexuality as something that is shameful and immoral.[6] Eshaghian's opinion is that this shame is the driving force behind so many Iranians deciding to change their sex. She says that identifying as transsexual rather than homosexual allows them to live free from harassment.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Like_Others

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

It says a lot that the Iranian state would treat me better in some ways than a certain segment of feminists.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

It actually has a really bad effect on gay men. They basically face execution if they don't get sex reassignment surgery and it leads to a lot of suicides and severe depression. I saw part of a documentary on it, but I forgot what it was. There are a few interviews you can look up of gay men who are now physically women and how much it really does suck.

Some scumbag in the government was giving a speech defending the decision. He was responding to claims that allowing sex reassignment surgery was unnatural and he said something like "well we change nature all the time." I think he alluded to how building a table is just changing nature around or some bullshit. Of course, when it comes to gays, it's different somehow. I think it's because the qu'ran says something against gays but not against transsexuals but I'm not completely sure.

[Slavic]

It says a lot that the Iranian state would treat me better in some ways than a certain segment of feminists.

If for all the wrong reasons.

[Maraam]

The political usage of SRS in Iran is something that shouldn't be celebrated (although the allowance of it should be IMO), as it's used to justify really horrible actions towards gay men, but the fatwa itself is interesting:


Q1271. Some people have the appearance of men. They have female psychological and sexual tendencies though. If they do not undergo the operation of sex change, they might commit sins insofar as their sexual behavior is concerned. Is it permissible for them to undergo such an operation?
A: There is no harm in undergoing the said operation if the end result would be determining of the true sex of the person provided that it does not lead to the commission of any ḥarām act or a vile consequence.


Q1272: What is the ruling in the matter of undergoing an operation for a hermaphrodite person to become either man or woman?
A: There is no objection to it in itself provided that one avoids ḥarām preliminary steps.(I can't post links but the fatwa can be read if you fish around on leader.ir)

This is relatively progressive compared to a lot of Muslim discourse on transgenderism, but still relies a lot on ideas of 'true sex' and 'female psychological and sexual tendencies', which have fallen out of view in a lot of trans circles, and it clearly hasn't removed transphobia or homophobia from Iranian society.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

If for all the wrong reasons.
Oh, sure, the reasons are messed up.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

It should be noted that South Asia and Persia have traditionally included subcultures which could be classified as "transsexual", although these communities are distinct from the contemporary Western concept, and still faced great discrimination of various kinds. However, unlike in Iran, in places like India and Pakistan, there is not the same kind of support for gender reassignment.

Of course, traditional third gender roles in places like Hindu India are quite distinct from the view of transgenderism which has emerged in both the West and Iran, but I don't think it's a huge leap to say that perhaps these traditions had some impact on acceptance of deviant gender roles (deviant not here being used in any kind of pejorative way, but merely an objective recognition of not following the general norm).

It should be noted that 3rd gender folks have also existed in Pakistan, a conservative Sunni society, since before the coming of Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_%28South_Asia%29

[Wuggums47]

They must think of gender differently there. It's not like it would help me any though, their positions are very binarist.