Has anyone heard of anti-fascist organization called Millennium?

[Katya]

It's Italian and its members reportedly fight along with insurgents in Donetsk, Ukraine.
Info and any links are appreciated.
Thanks!

[Slavic]

Sounds like a shitty anti-facist organization if they fight alongside nazis and nationalists.

[PhoenixAsh]

Just a quick question.


Are you referring to "3rd millennium"?

[Hrafn]

If they work with the Donetsk rebels, they are more Fascist than anti-Fascist.

[PhoenixAsh]

Hence why I asked. 3rd millennium usually refers to and is related to contemporary antisemitic and fascist groups.

[Sinred]

What a bunch of bs.
Yes there are fascist elements in the donetsk side but its not dominating.
The communist party and antifascist commites are growing rapidly in the region. There is also a jewish delegation fighting on the donetsk side if im not mistaking.
Some prorussian nazis doesnt change the fact that the resistance against the West-sponsered fascist regime is justified.
What if i told you, you can also support palestine without being a friend of islamists.

[Slavic]

What a bunch of bs.
Yes there are fascist elements in the donetsk side but its not dominating.
The communist party and antifascist commites are growing rapidly in the region. There is also a jewish delegation fighting on the donetsk side if im not mistaking.
Some prorussian nazis doesnt change the fact that the resistance against the West-sponsered fascist regime is justified.
What if i told you, you can also support palestine without being a friend of islamists.

Fascist or not, the donetsk nationalists are just that; nationalists.

US-sponsered nationalists or Russian-sponsered nationalist, there is honestly no difference.

[Hrafn]

What a bunch of bs.
Yes there are fascist elements in the donetsk side but its not dominating.
The communist party and antifascist commites are growing rapidly in the region. There is also a jewish delegation fighting on the donetsk side if im not mistaking.
Some prorussian nazis doesnt change the fact that the resistance against the West-sponsered fascist regime is justified.
What if i told you, you can also support palestine without being a friend of islamists.

Bullshit. The "resistance's" leadership is wholeheartedly Fascist, and most of the ground forces appear to be as well. I've seen no evidence of genuine anti-Fascism fighting on the ground in Donetsk. Both sides are Fascist and nationalist, and the Communist Party are pro-Russian conservative chauvinists. There is no side that should be supported, not without being against the working class and in favour of Western or Eastern imperialist ambitions.

[Loony Le Fist]

...
There is no side that should be supported, not without being against the working class and in favour of Western or Eastern imperialist ambitions.

I'm with you there--there doesn't seem to be anyone on the side of working people. It's hard to take sides when both seem equally shitty. :D

[Hrafn]

Ah, here we go. Information about "Millenium". Not so anti-Fascist after all.

http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.se/2014/06/italian-fascists-from-millennium-ally.html

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Its strange how quickly the pro-separatist posters vacated this place, I haven't seen anyone with a post count above 100 come out to defend them in these threads.

[Sinred]

Bullshit. The "resistance's" leadership is wholeheartedly Fascist, and most of the ground forces appear to be as well. I've seen no evidence of genuine anti-Fascism fighting on the ground in Donetsk. Both sides are Fascist and nationalist, and the Communist Party are pro-Russian conservative chauvinists. There is no side that should be supported, not without being against the working class and in favour of Western or Eastern imperialist ambitions.

The conflict is not about prorussian vs proukraine. Its about people reacting to a fascist coup made by US-imperialism.

And yes there is a huge difference. Putins russia is as imperialist as any other bloc. Not denying that.
But they are not the agressor in this conflict. They are actually turning their back on people who really needs them (not surprisingly thou).
Do you even have any sort of evidence that the donetsk resistance is run by fascist or do you instinctly detest them since they are "nationalists".
I guess the struggle in Palestine, Ireland or Syria must be a real headache for you...

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Hrafn's post in http://www.revleft.com/vb/ukraine-situation-fascist-t187326/index.html goes into the leadership's involvement with the far-right. it's #14 I think.

Most reasonable people seem to have written off the whole thing as an inter-imperialist farce, just the regular useful idiots are left on either side at this point.

[Scheveningen]

Millennium's manifesto is filled with communitarian theory, mentions of an international 'communitarianism v. liberalism' conflict and some clash of civilisation bullshit.
They claim to fight for 'the reborn laws of Justice, Tradition and Community', and the sparse references to socialism are more similar to the rhetoric of 'left' strands of Nazism/Fascism than to a Marxist program.

The only odd element is their use of the Garibaldi Brigades flag, but it's not too rare seeing fascist groups adopting left-wing personalities, images and slogans.

edit: on their website they reject both the fascist and anti-fascist label. So, yes, fascists.

[Sasha]

The strasserist ANS/NSA here not only tried to nick our AFA symbol to wind us up but also because they (or at least their leaders) genuinely saw themselves as anti-fascists and leftists. They always went of about this one pre-war fight between SA volunteers and fascist militias in the alps and the night of long knives and such. They also had this big hard on for the RAF and PFLP and Che and such, in the end they got puked out from the Nazi scene and they obviously failed to get any where with the real left.

[Luís Henrique]

Fascist or not, the donetsk nationalists are just that; nationalists.

US-sponsered nationalists or Russian-sponsered nationalist, there is honestly no difference.

If they are US-sponsored and Russia-sponsored, then it would seem that they are not actually nationalists, isn't it?

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Here (http://www.millennivm.org/millennivm/?p=589) is an interview with Orazio Maria Gnerre, leader of Millenium (or "Millenivm" as they spell it in their website).

From it:


Millennium nasce come progetto politico nel 2011. I suoi presupposti teorici sono l’evidente insufficienza del paradigma politico liberale e della conseguente dialettica fittizia tra destra e sinistra, e la necessità della transizione del grande spazio europeo (nella sua natura continentale e mediterranea) al multipolarismo geopolitico. La grande contrapposizione politica che si mostra ancora più evidentemente alle soglie del terzo millennio è quindi quella tra comunitarismo e liberalismo. Da un lato, i difensori di identità etniche, storiche e religiose e della giustizia sociale, dall’altro i promotori dell’avvento realizzato del mercato globale, della fine delle ideologie e, soprattutto, dell’edonismo individualista. Millennium in tal senso si propone come Partito Comunitarista Europeo.

So, basically, Millenium is born from the "insufficiency" of the "liberal political paradigm" and the "ficticious dialectic between right and left", plus the "necessity of the transition of the great European space towards geopolitical multipolarity"...

And it sees itself as part of the "defenders of ethnical, historical and religious identity, and of social justice" against the "promoters of global market, of the end of ideologies, and of individualist hedonism".

Politics of ambiguity, of course. But of a peculiarly traditionalist brand, with no pretentions on secularity or multiethnicity. Even if they want to be "European" rather than Italian.

But then what to expect from people who take Julius Evola in serious?

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

On the other hand, they deny "fighting" along the pro-Russian Ukranians (http://www.millennivm.org/millennivm/?p=1082#more-1082). They would have merely made a "solidarity" visit to Eastern Ukraine.

I am torn about this. On one hand, they are the kind of people I would expect to lie; on the other hand, I don't think they have actual muscle to help in the kind of struggle that is going on in Eastern Ukraine.

Luís Henrique

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Here (http://www.millennivm.org/millennivm/?p=589) is an interview with Orazio Maria Gnerre, leader of Millenium (or "Millenivm" as they spell it in their website).

That settles it, no one who adopts spelling norms of the Roman period but uses minuscule letters can be any good. I wonder if our old friend graffic is in this organisation, it sounds like something he'd like.

[Sea]

That settles it, no one who adopts spelling norms of the Roman period but uses minuscule letters can be any good. I wonder if our old friend graffic is in this organisation, it sounds like something he'd like.From this point forward I'll be intentionally mispronouncing it as "melinvium". I encovrage yov to do the same.

[adipocere]

Its strange how quickly the pro-separatist posters vacated this place, I haven't seen anyone with a post count above 100 come out to defend them in these threads.

I defend them from my anti-west perspective because I oppose all forms of US/western aggression. Therefor I support the people who reject the new Kiev govt, call them whatever you like.
Where you see a lack of support for "pro-seperatists" I happen to see a few usual suspects whooshing in to express their predictable contempt for whatever group is being demonized in the western press.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I defend them from my anti-west perspective because I oppose all forms of US/western aggression. Therefor I support the people who reject the new Kiev govt, call them whatever you like.
Where you see a lack of support for "pro-seperatists" I happen to see a few usual suspects whooshing in to express their predictable contempt for whatever group is being demonized in the western press.

Super insightful post, best of luck in Russia friend.

[Thirsty Crow]

I defend them from my anti-west perspective because I oppose all forms of US/western aggression. Therefor I support the people who reject the new Kiev govt, call them whatever you like.
Where you see a lack of support for "pro-seperatists" I happen to see a few usual suspects whooshing in to express their predictable contempt for whatever group is being demonized in the western press.
No fucking wonder you'd do that as, clearly, your perspective is anti-west, as opposed to the communist class perspective. You even admit it, so bonus points for honesty.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Is "I'll support nazis provided they are siding against the west" a good enough statement to get someone restricted?

[Thirsty Crow]

Is "I'll support nazis provided they are siding against the west" a good enough statement to get someone restricted?
Don't hold your breath. It's a part of the Stalinist anti-imp reactionary politics.

[Rafiq]

I defend them from my anti-west perspective because I oppose all forms of US/western aggression. Therefor I support the people who reject the new Kiev govt, call them whatever you like.
Where you see a lack of support for "pro-seperatists" I happen to see a few usual suspects whooshing in to express their predictable contempt for whatever group is being demonized in the western press.

If anything, Russian interests are more reactionary than the west, Russia stands as a worse threat as it represents a new model of capitalist rule - already in Europe, euroskeptic parties like UKIP and Front National have formed relationships with the Russian state, and let's not forget Orban in Hungary, who is looking eastward to Russia and China. This reactionary trend of national populism, which a la third world reactionary despots has come to Europe. All of these western communists who were so keen in supporting such trends in the third world - the same has come to your homes, and look how keen you are to go in a frenzy about the rise of fascism - this is the SAME Russian, Iranian and Syrian bloc.

Not to say NATO or EU interests should be defended, or supported, but if we're going go play this game of lesser evils, then Russian interests are not even a contender for support. It's ironic that Russia has reassumed the same role it had during the Crimean war - the single most reactionary power in all of Europe.

[adipocere]

No fucking wonder you'd do that as, clearly, your perspective is anti-west, as opposed to the communist class perspective. You even admit it, so bonus points for honesty.

Allow me to clarify something. There is really no point in debating the Cruise Missile Left on this board because as you can even see now, it's like letting monkeys hurl shit at you.

[Sasha]

"Cruise Missile Left", maybe i should make that my RL tendency.

[synthesis]

Allow me to clarify something. There is really no point in debating the Cruise Missile Left on this board because as you can even see now, it's like letting monkeys hurl shit at you.

I feel like someone traveled back in time and invented the term "useful idiot" specifically for you. (As also evidenced by your hilarious blog post about the Cuban spy who got popped, and the lack of interest in that issue about which I remember you being particularly morally indignant.)

[An archist]

A quick llok at their website tells me enough, 'European revolution', 'Communitarism', 'Eurasia', love for Alexander Dugin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
And the Orazio guy is a fan of futurist art according to his facebookpage.

Pretty straightforward, oldskool fash there.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I feel like someone traveled back in time and invented the term "useful idiot" specifically for you. (As also evidenced by your hilarious blog post about the Cuban spy who got popped, and the lack of interest in that issue about which I remember you being particularly morally indignant.)

Isn't it always a laugh when the imperialists imprison someone working for a workers' state in one of their psikhushkas.

I think the term "Cruise Missile left" is too kind, most people here don't have the guts to work out the consequences of their position. "Obama-voting left" might be a better description.

[Lensky]

If anything, Russian interests are more reactionary than the west, Russia stands as a worse threat as it represents a new model of capitalist rule - already in Europe, euroskeptic parties like UKIP and Front National have formed relationships with the Russian state, and let's not forget Orban in Hungary, who is looking eastward to Russia and China. This reactionary trend of national populism, which a la third world reactionary despots has come to Europe. All of these western communists who were so keen in supporting such trends in the third world - the same has come to your homes, and look how keen you are to go in a frenzy about the rise of fascism - this is the SAME Russian, Iranian and Syrian bloc.

Not to say NATO or EU interests should be defended, or supported, but if we're going go play this game of lesser evils, then Russian interests are not even a contender for support. It's ironic that Russia has reassumed the same role it had during the Crimean war - the single most reactionary power in all of Europe.

Leftists cannot move freely in Kiev and areas of Euromaidan control without fear of their lives, the Odessa massacre being the most current example. Whilst areas under direct or loose Russian control such as the Donetsk region has heavy mobilizations and agitation through the communist group Borotba. If anything, it is the EU that can no longer rule in the old welfare state way and now relies on selling literally everything to bankers and investors, with right wing ideologies being legitimized to push these reactionary policies through.

[Rafiq]

Leftists cannot move freely in Kiev and areas of Euromaidan control without fear of their lives, the Odessa massacre being the most current example. Whilst areas under direct or loose Russian control such as the Donetsk region has heavy mobilizations and agitation through the communist group Borotba. If anything, it is the EU that can no longer rule in the old welfare state way and now relies on selling literally everything to bankers and investors, with right wing ideologies being legitimized to push these reactionary policies through.

You speak of the legitimization of reactionary ideologues throughout European politics, and you are absolutely correct! Remember though - these are the same Euroskeptic parties who endorse Putin, who pledge to forge ties with Russia should they achieve power. Both Le Penn and Farage have spoken of their admiration for Putin and his distinct "style" of rule. It is clearly the prerogative of the Russian state to see to the dismantlement of the European Union, of that there can be no doubt.

The reactionary philistine trends that hold sway across Europe are not the expression of a European zeal - rather they represent the capitalism of Russia and China, perhaps we can call this oriental capitalism. Fascists in Ukraine are pro-European, though only because of the anti-Russian nature of Ukrainian nationalist sediment. No on is arguing for a support of European interests, merely the absolute necessity of recognizing the reactionary nature of the Russian state and it's pawns in Europe. The difference between the two imperialist blocs (Western Europe and the U.S., Russia, China Iran and Syria) is that the possibility of class consciousness is dwarfed by the sheer ideological power of the latter (almost comparable to 20th century Fascism) who unlike the current legitimate global capitalist order (I.e. U.S. hegemony) have offered a false solution to existing conditions, an alternative to American Imperialism and European liberal technocracy, in all it's 'weakness'. They posit themselves as opponents of the existing order of things while at the same time, in their very opposition sustain the global imperialist order.

Let's be quite frank, there is no reason to take for granted our 'politically corrent' 'progressive liberal' societies, I make no apologies when I say proletarian consciousness is infinitely more likely here than in Russia, or the Middle East where the dichotomy is solely on national, religious or ethnic grounds. And that's the danger in Europe, with Front National, the Golden Dawn, Orban in Hungary and so on - The so-called defenders of western civilization and European culture are in effect destroying Europe by trivializing it into another nation-state where issues of class, among other social issues are non-existent and all dichtomony resides with those who support the nation, the affirmative ideology, the master and the cowardly political correct liberals who are undermining the national strength, the slave, the dissenting ideology that serves only to sustain the former. This is the logic of such vulgar, philistine bourgeois politics. This is the barbarism luxemburg had spoken of, and the Communist project in it's current state does not stand a chance. The choice becomes clear, then: A new universal Communist movement that is capable of destroying the ying-yang of Bourgeois Liberalism and Fascism, trivializing it, or this new barbaric capitalism.