UKIP and the 2014 Elections

[RA89]

DH7RBYEFLmE


Daniel Morley of the Editorial Board of Socialist Appeal comments on the recent elections in Britain and Europe, and in particular analyses the rise of UKIP and the contradictions within Farage's party.


http://www.socialist.net/2014-elections-a-blow-to-the-coalition.htm

I thought he made some very good points about how people against UKIP should spend less time trying to fish out twitter quotes from their silly councilors and more time bringing some of the lesser known policies of UKIP to the forefront which would be very unpopular to most people, e.g. privatization of the NHS, sacking of 2million public sector workers, abolition of right to holidays for workers, flat rate of income tax, reducing maternity leave to one week etc.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

agreed. they are taken as superficially by much of the left as they are by the disillusioned workers who voted for them but there is a lot beyond the pally charm and noise about pubs, smoking bans and their middle-englander racism and general bigotry.

[voodoojoey]

It's a shame that the opposition to UKIP doesn't take UKIP seriously enough. Whether the support for UKIP is superficial or not, if they get returns in the ballot box, their harm will be far from superficial.

[The Idler]

What were Socialist Appeal doing during the election? Campaigning for the Labour Party?

[RA89]

What were Socialist Appeal doing during the election? Campaigning for the Labour Party?

I doubt it, they're always saying that Labour is too much on the right and that if they moved towards more socialist policies they would win back lots of their voters.

[The Idler]

I doubt it, they're always saying that Labour is too much on the right and that if they moved towards more socialist policies they would win back lots of their voters.
How were they advising their members/supporters to vote?

[RA89]

How were they advising their members/supporters to vote?

I'm not sure mate. I've only been following them recently on FB checking their updates. From what I've seen they're not endorsing any party but calling for a "Socialist Programme". Whether they intend to form a party and push it or are trying to influence existing parties like Labour to enforce them I don't know.


Labour must break with big business and Tory economic policies.
A national minimum wage of at least two-thirds of the average wage. £8.00 an hour as a step toward this goal, with no exemptions.
Full employment! No redundancies. The right to a job or decent benefits. For a 32 hour week without loss of pay. No compulsory overtime. For voluntary retirement at 55 with a decent full pension for all.
No more sell offs. Reverse the Tories privatisation scandal. Renationalise all the privatised industries and utilities under democratic workers control and management. No compensation for the fat cats, only those in genuine need.
The repeal of all Tory anti-union laws. Full employment rights for all from day one. For the right to strike, the right to union representation and collective bargaining.
Election of all trade union officials with the right of recall. No official to receive more than the wage of a skilled worker.
Action to protect our environment. Only public ownership of the land, and major industries, petro-chemical enterprises, food companies, energy and transport, can form the basis of a genuine socialist approach to the environment.
A fully funded and fully comprehensive education system under local democratic control. Keep big business out of our schools and colleges. Free access for all to further and higher education. Scrap tuition fees. No to student loans. For a living grant for all over 16 in education or training.
The outlawing of all forms of discrimination. Equal pay for equal work. Invest in quality childcare facilities available to all. Scrap all racist immigration and asylum controls. Abolish the Criminal Justice Act.
The reversal of the Tories’ cuts in the health service. Abolish private health care. For a National Health Service, free to all at the point of need, based on the nationalisation of the big drug companies that squeeze their profits out of the health of working people.
Trade unions must reclaim the Labour Party! Fight for Party democracy and socialist policies. For workers’ MPs on workers’ wages.
The abolition of the monarchy and the House of Lords. Full economic powers for the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly, enabling them to introduce socialist measures in the interests of working people.
No to sectarianism. For a Socialist United Ireland linked by a voluntary federation to a Socialist Britain.
Break with the anarchy of the capitalist free market. Labour to immediately take over the “commanding heights of the economy.” Nationalise the big monopolies, banks and financial institutions that dominate our lives. Compensation to be paid only on the basis of need. All nationalised enterprises to be run under workers control and management and integrated through a democratic socialist plan of production.
Socialist internationalism. No to the bosses European Union. Yes to a socialist united states of Europe, as part of a world socialist federation.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

SAps are pretty entrenched in the standard Grantist position that the working class has an organic connection to the Labour party (it is more the case that the British left has an organic connection to the Labour party) and so groups like SApp should try to move Labour in a leftward position.

What I don't understand is why everyone is going around panicking because of these election results. Hearing some people talk you would think the UKIP is one Parliament fire away from being given dictatorial power.

[Red Economist]

What I don't understand is why everyone is going around panicking because of these election results. Hearing some people talk you would think the UKIP is one Parliament fire away from being given dictatorial power.

It's just disturbing that they are being taken seriously at all in the media and by the general public, especially given the fact people don't know what they are voting for.

[The Idler]

It's just disturbing that they are being taken seriously at all in the media and by the general public, especially given the fact people don't know what they are voting for.
I'd be tempted to say the same about the Labour Party.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

It's just disturbing that they are being taken seriously at all in the media and by the general public, especially given the fact people don't know what they are voting for.

Given that their policies are already being advocated by many members of the Tories and Labour, is that really surprising? "British jobs for British workers" is no less reactionary when a labourite says it.

I find it disturbing that anyone takes capitalism as a possible system for fulfilling human needs and organising society seriously. But I am not surprised by it.

[Црвена]

sacking of 2million public sector workers, abolition of right to holidays for workers, flat rate of income tax, reducing maternity leave to one week


Say goodbye to freedom, Britain.

[Red Economist]

I'd be tempted to say the same about the Labour Party.

Well said. :grin:


Given that their policies are already being advocated by many members of the Tories and Labour, is that really surprising? "British jobs for British workers" is no less reactionary when a labourite says it.

I find it disturbing that anyone takes capitalism as a possible system for fulfilling human needs and organising society seriously. But I am not surprised by it.

admittedly no, it's not surprising. But the speed with which the public support has emerged is.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IZ0WS70_QAU/UZSIhAuGEdI/AAAAAAAAA7Y/NW84iXEnzZk/s1600/ukip+polling.png

thought this is more reassuring... people vote UKIP in European elections but not general elections.

https://fullfact.org/sites/fullfact.org/files/ukip_0.png

[bricolage]

thought this is more reassuring... people vote UKIP in European elections but not general elections.
Of course they do.
It's quite funny really, people vote UKIP as a protest vote in the Euro elections because they're unhappy with the EU so UKIP MEP's are sent to a meaningless parliament that they don't think should exist and in which they can do nothing about Britain's relationship with Europe. Then the general elections come around and the same people who voted for UKIP don't trust them enough on other things to run the country so they don't vote for them, but of course it's that national government that decides European policy and so the three main parties continue with things the way they are and then the cycle repeats itself over and over again.

Meanwhile police harass people because they're not white, the border agency harass people because they're not white then start kicking in their doors and sticking them in detention centres. British borders remain militarised and racist and people are sent on planes to be tortured. And still everyone points at UKIP and tells us that's where the real enemy is.

[brigadista]

31 mill people didn't vote

[Црвена]

Say goodbye to freedom, Britain.

Or what semblance of it we had.

[Zoroaster]

Fuck UKIP. That's all I can say. Goddamn fascists.

[Gary]

Parties like UKIP are only really winning the knee jerk votes, once people realise their real policies they'll soon lose faith.
Without the newspapers only telling the general population what they want them to hear, and once the Europe question is resolved, they'll be finished quicker than they appeared. They don't have anything real to offer the people.

[Manzil]

It's a shame that the opposition to UKIP doesn't take UKIP seriously enough. Whether the support for UKIP is superficial or not, if they get returns in the ballot box, their harm will be far from superficial.

I think the left does take UKIP seriously - it just also acts out of an entirely erroneous analysis of the group.

During the Euro-elections, the Socialist Workers Party and its friends in Unite Against Fascism spent considerable time and effort chasing Nigel Farage around the south-east of England, denouncing UKIP as 'racist' outside his speaking venues. Essentially they took their long-time approach to the BNP and simply applied it wholesale to what is a different trend on the right, both in terms of its social composition, ideology etc.

You can't shame or frighten people into not voting UKIP - you have to split their mass 'anti-politics' protest vote, often coming out of working-class communities, from the national-chauvinist, Tory hardcore of the party. This requires the offering of a consistent, positive alternative that speaks to people's needs. Working-class socialism or working-class conservatism: these are the choices, not a shrill denunciation of UKIP as anathema.

Unfortunately, the likelihood is that the Labour Party which Socialist Appeal looks to will instead adopt wholesale the general thrust, if not the exact details, of UKIP's attitude when it comes to blaming immigrants, foreigners and so on for the ongoing crisis.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

31 mill people didn't vote

^I think this is a much more important statistic to be thinking about

[radiocaroline]

I am disgusted at UKIP as a party but I think the fear over them is serious, yet over-exaggerated. Looking at the trend in the last few elections we have seen the rise of parties attempting to portray themselves as a "protest vote". We saw the same with the Lib Dems in 2010, however, after N*ck Clegg grasped power, rose tuition fees, broke promises etc (basically doing what all politicians in power do) the Lib Dems have ceased to be a "protest vote" and have just become another sad component of "the system" in the view of the electorate.

I think its a fair point to recognise the naivety of the electorate when it comes to party politics but ultimately they are not stupid - UKIP will slip up, as we are starting to see with racist accusations and more and more daft UKIP activists being accused of what Nigel Farage calls "un-UKIP-like behaviour".

I believe that the success of UKIP should be acknowledged but with caution. Not only, as the fella above just said, did 31 million people not vote but the media tends to enjoy the fact that UKIP gaining seats in elections is a "good story" and ultimately sells. The electoral system involved in the general election (first past the post) will make it tough for Farage to gain a seat in Westminster in comparison to the system of local and European elections.

I think we should concentrate activity in actually looking at the very real problems facing British people - not the obsession with Europe which tends to be pretty moronic and divided along simple nationalist principles.

Europe, ultimately, will not be a political decision which can help change the lives of people below the breadline or those who cannot find stable employment.