Just Some Questions

[Filthy Libertine]

I'm still very much in the learning stage, so please forgive me if I make any incorrect assumptions.
Anyway, here are some somewhat random questions I have...

I noticed that this forum has both the Anarchy symbol, and the USSR symbol in use. Don't these two contradict each other? One is the symbol of a society with no government, the other is the symbol of a state that didn't just have a government, but a dictatorship.

Those of you who favor Anarchic Communism, how do you reply to the common criticism that a society without a ruler can very easily end up with a dictator?

Those of you who do want a Communist dictatorship, what do you feel a society would have to do to keep a dictator such as Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong from coming to power?

Which historical societies have come the closest to creating the perfect Communist society?

Do you believe all people are equal, or that it's necessary to believe so in order to be a Communist?

Thank you. I'm sure I'll have more annoying questions later.

[#FF0000]

I noticed that this forum has both the Anarchy symbol, and the USSR symbol in use. Don't these two contradict each other? One is the symbol of a society with no government, the other is the symbol of a state that didn't just have a government, but a dictatorship.

The symbols aren't meant to be taken together -- they represent the different shades of leftist opinion on the board. We have communists an anarchists of all stripe.


Those of you who favor Anarchic Communism, how do you reply to the common criticism that a society without a ruler can very easily end up with a dictator?


An anarchist society would be one that had forcibly overthrown rulers and bosses and dictators already, wouldn't it? I think it's very unlikely that a society of people who took these people down would simply allow another one to take the old rulers' place, unless that anarchist society was struggling with some massive existential problems -- but that goes for every society, doesn't it?


Those of you who do want a Communist dictatorship, what do you feel a society would have to do to keep a dictator such as Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong from coming to power?

This is kind of a big question because it's sort of indirectly asking "what went wrong in the USSR/China". There's a lot of different views on this, and I'm unfortunately in no state whatsoever to really go in-depth with this (I've been up all night and I'm attempting to stay up all day to correct my sleep schedule ;)). I will definitely come back to this later, once I've slept. I'll gather up some things to read if you want, as well.


Which historical societies have come the closest to creating the perfect Communist society?

Anarchists will point to the anarchist communes during the Spanish Civil War. Marx pointed to the Paris Commune as an example of the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat". However, I don't think anyone will say any society has ever even come close to a communist one.


Do you believe all people are equal, or that it's necessary to believe so in order to be a Communist?


It depends on what you mean, I guess. Obviously not everyone has the same abilities or capabilities in all things. However, some people being better athletes, or better in academics, or better artists, than others, doesn't mean anyone is "above" anyone else overall. I don't think it makes sense to order people like that.

[RedWorker]

I noticed that this forum has both the Anarchy symbol, and the USSR symbol in use. Don't these two contradict each other? One is the symbol of a society with no government, the other is the symbol of a state that didn't just have a government, but a dictatorship.

Although it was heavily used by the Soviet Union, the hammer and sickle is simply a symbol which depicts communism, socialism or workers' power, and has been picked up by many organizations and movements in the world, whether authoritarian or not. Some anarchists gladly identify with the hammer and sickle.


Those of you who favor Anarchic Communism, how do you reply to the common criticism that a society without a ruler can very easily end up with a dictator?

Dismantling centralized structures of power.


Those of you who do want a Communist dictatorship, what do you feel a society would have to do to keep a dictator such as Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong from coming to power?There is no "communist dictatorship" - in communism, there is no government. Additionally it is debated whether countries such as the Soviet Union even achieved socialism (see state capitalism). Increasing checks and balances and internal party democracy could be used to help prevent such people from taking over in a single-party state.


Which historical societies have come the closest to creating the perfect Communist society?

Revolutionary Catalonia, Free Territory(?).


Do you believe all people are equal, or that it's necessary to believe so in order to be a Communist?

Obviously, not everyone is the same. However, communists generally believe that everyone should be given the same opportunities and that nobody should be subject to any discrimination or oppression.

[#FF0000]

Obviously not everyone is equal.

I think that one can only say people are equal in terms of being treated equally. That is, I think it's a pretty big mistake to say "equal" when one means "the same" in terms of skills or attributes or whatever, you know what I mean?

[CubanDream]

Those of you who do want a Communist dictatorship, what do you feel a society would have to do to keep a dictator such as Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong from coming to power?

Stalin and Mao were great men - they are actually the kind of leaders we want.


Which historical societies have come the closest to creating the perfect Communist society?Krushchev and Chavez society were doing well IMO, though not really communist of course.


Do you believe all people are equal, or that it's necessary to believe so in order to be a Communist?
No and no. Certainly not literally speaking anyway.

However society can be organised to create democratic levels of equality.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Stalin and Mao were great men - they are actually the kind of leaders we want.
No, no, and fuck no.

[Left Voice]

I'm still very much in the learning stage, so please forgive me if I make any incorrect assumptions.
Anyway, here are some somewhat random questions I have...

I noticed that this forum has both the Anarchy symbol, and the USSR symbol in use. Don't these two contradict each other? One is the symbol of a society with no government, the other is the symbol of a state that didn't just have a government, but a dictatorship.

Those of you who favor Anarchic Communism, how do you reply to the common criticism that a society without a ruler can very easily end up with a dictator?

Those of you who do want a Communist dictatorship, what do you feel a society would have to do to keep a dictator such as Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong from coming to power?

Which historical societies have come the closest to creating the perfect Communist society?

Do you believe all people are equal, or that it's necessary to believe so in order to be a Communist?

Thank you. I'm sure I'll have more annoying questions later.
I think it is helpful to unlearn some basic assumptions. These assumptions are not your fault, but they are ones that prevail in society and are misleading.

Communism and anarchism aren't as opposed as you say. They both have the same roots and have the same objective - a stateless, communistic society where the working class has taken control the the means of production. Yes, the ultimate goal of communism is a stateless society too.

Communists and anarchists differ not in their objectives, but their means. Typical communists believe that the working class can seize control of the state and utilise it to work towards a communist society (the state will then 'wither away' as the working class takes control and the state becomes unnecessary). Anarchists typically believe that the state should be abolished right from the start, and that taking over the state would result in reproducing capitalistic class relations.

Obviously there are many different currents and tendencies within both communism and anarchism, but you can see that communism and anarchism are both extremely similar, relegated movements differing mainly on practices. Hence, communists and anarchists would consider each other comrades.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I noticed that this forum has both the Anarchy symbol, and the USSR symbol in use. Don't these two contradict each other? One is the symbol of a society with no government, the other is the symbol of a state that didn't just have a government, but a dictatorship.
All states are dictatorships, no exceptions. But since this board is home to revolutionary leftists of multiple traditions, it's no surprise that there are a multiplicity of symbols as well.


Those of you who favor Anarchic Communism, how do you reply to the common criticism that a society without a ruler can very easily end up with a dictator?
The way such a society would function would not be conducive to one person being able to control it, nor would I expect a society born from mass struggle against a class dictatorship would let someone try.


Which historical societies have come the closest to creating the perfect Communist society?
None.

[CubanDream]

No, no, and fuck no.

Mao was fabulous, he turned feudal China into a great Communist power.

Stalin too, though he was a little psychopathic - turned backwards Russia into World Power, spread the revolution, defeated Hitler, fought against Western Imperialism - not perfect, but a great victory for communism.

[#FF0000]

Mao was fabulous, he turned feudal China into a great Communist power.

A great power, yeah, but nothing communist about it I'm afraid.

But then I'm not a Maoist.


Stalin too, though he was a little psychopathic - turned backwards Russia into World Power, spread the revolution, defeated Hitler, fought against Western Imperialism - not perfect, but a great victory for communism.

If by "spread the revolution" you mean "stymied every serious revolutionary movement in every country in which one existed in order to further Russia's political interests" then yeah, he did a lot to spread the revolution.

But this is a Learning thread, so we should keep the sectarian bickering out of it as much as possible.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Mao was fabulous, he turned feudal China into a great Communist power.
A great state capitalist power, sure.


Stalin too, though he was a little psychopathic - turned backwards Russia into World Power, spread the revolution, defeated Hitler, fought against Western Imperialism - not perfect, but a great victory for communism.
Again, not communism.

And where is the working class in all of this Great Man Theory idealist nonsense?

[adipocre]

You are in the early learning stages, so I expected you to call Mao Zedong and stalin dictators.

Im too lazy to quote n shit like the other guy, but I will give some information about China and the USSR.

First off, the USSR/Soviet Union crashed on economic terms, not political. This is evident in the fall of siberia almost immediately after it all was abolished.

I have a few questions for you though, more or less just to get you thinking.


Mao Zedongs apparent 60 million deaths were caused by a famine. How can one man create natural cause for death?

Stalin turned Russia into a powerhouse, created their own nuclear weapons, and DOUBLED the life expectency for the Russian people. Does this sound like an evil dictator who wanted to kill and exploit his own people?

As for Russias work camps, everyone fucking had them. Even America had them and Australia to this day has awful camps that they put immigrants in.

I recommend Jason Unruhe and Scottish Socialist if you are a new comrade.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk