Communists in the Army

[Redhead]

What are your thoughts on a country's military defense? Is it wrong for a communist to join his country's army? After all, being a soldier is still a form of job.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

What are your thoughts on a country's military defense? Is it wrong for a communist to join his country's army? After all, being a soldier is still a form of job.

So is being a cop...

It depends. With large conscript armies (whether through open or "economic" conscription), there is a chance of conducting propaganda in order to split the army, have the soldiers turn their guns against the officers etc. But if we're talking about a professional force, what's the point? What would a communist be doing in such an army, defending the fatherland?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

A communist really shouldn't volunteer for military duty in a bourgeois army.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I know on this forum there are people who've been in the army at some point, left feeling disenfranchised and become communists/anarchists as a result and I know comrades in real life with similar experiences. However, I can't really see someone who is already class concious joining an institution that would force you to be a participant in imperialist wars.

[Slavic]

I know on this forum there are people who've been in the army at some point, left feeling disenfranchised and become communists/anarchists as a result and I know comrades in real life with similar experiences. However, I can't really see someone who is already class concious joining an institution that would force you to be a participant in imperialist wars.

I joined the air national guard in '09 so I could go to school. I was a leftist then but I wouldn't have considered myself a communist. I have not participated in any wars, hell all I did was collect a paycheck go to school for relatively free and received a 20k signing bonus.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

It seems unlikely to me that you did not participate in any wars. Only 10-20% of the US military is composed of actual combat troops. While you were in the national guard you were serving as the other 80% that provides the framework that allows the combat troops to do what they do. Did your unit provide logistics or maybe maintenance for aircraft or training for pilots? Its not like american soldiers magically appear in Afghanistan out of thin air or something.

[Slavic]

It seems unlikely to me that you did not participate in any wars. Only 10-20% of the US military is composed of actual combat troops. While you were in the national guard you were serving as the other 80% that provides the framework that allows the combat troops to do what they do. Did your unit provide logistics or maybe maintenance for aircraft or training for pilots? Its not like american soldiers magically appear in Afghanistan out of thin air or something.

If you are going down that route. We do not supply food for our base nor do we cook it. We do not clean or build repair buildings and infrastructure. Are the civilian cooks, mechanics, and cleaners that are contracted participating in imperialist wars?

[4thInter]

Depends on what your fighting for. If your fighting a fascist threat than go ahead and join. But was this new fascist threat caused by the bourgeois than no. You won't make a difference because you just wasted time fighting their mistake, if its even a mistake. Also the US army just defends the actions and mistakes of the bourgeoisie.

An example being hitler's rise to power was caused by bourgeois oppression. Hitler rose up due to bourgeois oppression, and at the same time fell due to bourgeois action against him.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

If you are going down that route. We do not supply food for our base nor do we cook it. We do not clean or build repair buildings and infrastructure. Are the civilian cooks, mechanics, and cleaners that are contracted participating in imperialist wars?

Yeah why wouldn't they be? If you're performing duties at a military base, it's ultimately going to be for military purposes. Civilian contractors serving food, peforming basic maintenance, driving trucks or even providing security allows the military to free up soldiers for other work.

[Slavic]

Yeah why wouldn't they be? If you're performing duties at a military base, it's ultimately going to be for military purposes. Civilian contractors serving food, peforming basic maintenance, driving trucks or even providing security allows the military to free up soldiers for other work.

So the eletrical company, water utility, county garbage and recycling, and ISP company are also participating in imperialist wars aswell right?

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

If people criticize someone for joining the army for a paycheck then why wouldn't you criticize them for working for Walmart? Or any other corporation? What's the difference? Many people don't have a lot of options other than to join. It's not like they are generals drawing up plans to invade third world countries.

[Luís Henrique]

What are your thoughts on a country's military defense? Is it wrong for a communist to join his country's army? After all, being a soldier is still a form of job.

It isn't morally wrong for a communist to join his or her country's army (or any other army indeed).

But... it is morally wrong for a communist not to agitate and propagandise his or her views while on job. Indeed, it can be argued that if you don't do it, you are not a communist at all.

And since the military environment isn't the safest place to proselitise communist views, it is a bad carreer choice for communists.

Luís Henrique

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

So the eletrical company, water utility, county garbage and recycling, and ISP company are also participating in imperialist wars aswell right?

Can you just go ahead and make whatever point you're leading up to here, rather than clutter up the thread with this kind of shit.


If you're performing duties at a military base, it's ultimately going to be for military purposes.

[Slavic]

Can you just go ahead and make whatever point you're leading up to here, rather than clutter up the thread with this kind of shit.

This is how I conduct discourse. I've seen threads on here started by trolls that blow past 10 pages, but fine I'll hurry up because my shit is cluttering the only page in the thread.

Where do you draw the line with involvement in imperialist wars?

Nothing exists in a vaccum, and your line of though seems to extend that any sort of cooperation with any type of military personel is tandamount to participation in inmperialist wars. Following this line of reason, every taxpayer in a state is supporting their state's imperialist wars.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

You honestly think a taxpayer's role in military conflicts is equivalent to someone who enlisted in the national guard? You don't notice a difference between paying taxes involuntarily and having no say in where those taxes are spent and walking into a recruitment office to sign up for 2-6 years of active support for military operations? "The system currupts everyone" observation really doesn't extend to this specific situation, you took an active role in the global war on terror or whatever they're calling it now, just accept that.

Edit: to be clear im not making a moral statement against you, I really don't care about your enlistment. My initial post was just pointing out a flaw in your argument.

[Црвена]

We'd probably get kicked out of a national military for mentioning that we're communist. And anyway, I'm not sure why we'd even want to be part of any bourgeois and nationalistic organisations.

[Slavic]

You honestly think a taxpayer's role in military conflicts is equivalent to someone who enlisted in the national guard? You don't notice a difference between paying taxes involuntarily and having no say in where those taxes are spent and walking into a recruitment office to sign up for 2-6 years of active support for military operations? "The system currupts everyone" observation really doesn't extend to this specific situation, you took an active role in the global war on terror or whatever they're calling it now, just accept that.

Edit: to be clear im not making a moral statement against you, I really don't care about your enlistment. My initial post was just pointing out a flaw in your argument.

I honestly don't think that a taxpayer is engaging in imperialist wars, that's why I asked you where do you draw the line and why when it comes into participation in war.

If you agree that the utility companies servicing my base and the cleaning crew taking out the trash are furthering the "War on Terror" than I would like to know where you draw the line in war participation.

[PhoenixAsh]

What are you going to do? Spread the revolution through imperialism?

[Slavic]

What are you going to do? Spread the revolution through imperialism?

Are you serious? You think I joined a state military because I wanted to "Spread the revolution through imperialism"?

I joined because it was the only way I could go to school without becoming thousands of dollars in debt.

It was either I pay the bank 50K+ for the next 20 years of my life, or the military pays me 20K and gives me free schooling. Either I become indebted to a multinational bank, or I become indebted to a state military; either way I lose.

[PhoenixAsh]

Are you serious? You think I joined a state military because I wanted to "Spread the revolution through imperialism"?

I joined because it was the only way I could go to school without becoming thousands of dollars in debt.

It was either I pay the bank 50K+ for the next 20 years of my life, or the military pays me 20K and gives me free schooling. Either I become indebted to a multinational bank, or I become indebted to a state military; either way I lose.

....was addressing OP. But ok.

[PhoenixAsh]

Also don't be an officer. I was a cadet. I got kicked out for getting drunk and thinking it might be a good idea to try and fire the Galil in the barracks and for unclipping my rifle (loaded with blanks because we couldn't play like the real grown ups yet) when in an argument with a sergeant-cadet. Worst month of my life.

[Sabot Cat]

I know some people who can't get a good break without enlisting in the military, such is the way the bourgeois have constructed it. As such, I don't think we should engage in moralistic criticism of workers who found it necessary to be a part of their nation's armed forces.

[Slavic]

....was addressing OP. But ok.

I apologize, the OP hasn't responded since the opening post so I thought you were referring to me. I'm very self centered : D

[PhoenixAsh]

I apologize, the OP hasn't responded since the opening post so I thought you were referring to me. I'm very self centered : D

I should have quoted ;)

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I honestly don't think that a taxpayer is engaging in imperialist wars, that's why I asked you where do you draw the line and why when it comes into participation in war.

If you agree that the utility companies servicing my base and the cleaning crew taking out the trash are furthering the "War on Terror" than I would like to know where you draw the line in war participation.

This is a ridiculous conversation to be having. You wore a uniform during a period of active military campaigns and then claimed you took not part in them, when I pointed out the flaw in that logic you've come up with some unusual mental gymnastics apparently to try to get me to agree to some kind of collective guilt for everyone on the planet. As if somebody having taxes deducted from their $9/hr job for defense spending is somehow in the same boat as a person who volunteers for military service, that's fucking stupid and comes off like an obvious attempt at deflection on your part. The distinction is clear, if you've taken an active part in military operations, whether you've done that while wearing the uniform of a soldier or a civilian contractor, then yes you've obviously taken part in the imperialist wars that those operations were in support of.

[Slavic]

The distinction is clear, if you've taken an active part in military operations, whether you've done that while wearing the uniform of a soldier or a civilian contractor, then yes you've obviously taken part in the imperialist wars that those operations were in support of.

Then yes, I've taken part in imperialist wars, thus was the neccesity of my situation.

[Redhead]

But what if your country isnt participating in any wars and your just joining for the money, or simply because you are a person who wants military dicipline and training as a job.

[Sinister Intents]

But what if your country isnt participating in any wars and your just joining for the money, or simply because you are a person who wants military dicipline and training as a job.

Why the hell would someone want to subject themselves to the slavery that the militarty provides?

[Slavic]

Why the hell would someone want to subject themselves to the slavery that the militarty provides?

For many who are unable to go to school or graduate highschool, the military provides an alternative source of income plus three meals a day and housing.