Are the Working class being?

[cubist]

I have been thinking about this for a while, but keep forgetting to look in theory for answers so please point me to a relevant thread if there is one.

But do you think that the global prolateriat has become too complacent in capitalist society, all my friends all working class just don't care about whats going on, and whether they are being scammed or helped by the government. they wouldn't no the true meaning of working class if it slapped them in the face. They don't vote becuase they don't know or care what the vote is about

[BOZG]

The consciousness of the working class goes up and down depending on the situations it faces. Many countries have just been through a boom in their economies and because capitalism has slightly benefited them for a short period, consciousness takes a step back. But as economies slump and the capitalist class must go on the offensive against workers in order to keep profit levels up, consciousness will more than likely advance once again. Take Austria for example, a country which since the end of the second World War had no history of struggle as the economy was dominated by social partnership but in the past year Austria has seen a general strike, where over a third of the population of the country was on strike action against a capitalist offensive on social welfare and workers rights. Consciousness develops more quickly in periods of economic recline and recession where conditions and rights are attacked.

[Faceless]

The proletariat as a result of globalisation are pampered in the West to a large degree. I would say that the revolution will start in East Europe/Latin America/Asia/Africa. There still ARE working classes in the West and there is poverty but they are pampered so that these countries can provide a safe haven from which to attack the proletariat in the divided third world. I don't know what our hopes are of revolution here first but Capitalism is a volatile system with great booms and busts.

[redstar2000]

...all my friends, all working class, just don't care about what's going on, and whether they are being scammed or helped by the government. They wouldn't know the true meaning of working class if it slapped them in the face. They don't vote because they don't know or care what the vote is about.

One way to look at "working class apathy" is as a kind of "psychological coping mechanism". If you are pretty certain that you are in a completely powerless situation with no control over the decisions made by your masters, one way to "cope" with that is to pretend "it doesn't matter".

It's better just to "accept things as they are" (since "there's nothing you can do about them"!). Enjoy the treats, watch the spectacles, play the games, and "chill".

And if things go really badly for you, blame yourself.

Those who say that "history has ended" believe that this sort of thing will go on "forever".

We'll see.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

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[Don't Change Your Name]

People has been attracted that by working hard for their bosses all the time they will be rich and give a good life to their family. And of course the anti-communist, anti-anarchist, anti-change propaganda plays a major role using the "common sense" to make people beware of those who want changes. A good phrase that I found that applies to this discussion is this:

"Ah, the Horatio Alger fallacy. The notion that everybody can be the exception. It works as well in capitalism as it does in lotteries." - Mike Huben

[The Feral Underclass]

I do not think it is apathy so much. Just reality. People simply accept the world as unchangable.


Capitalism as a system has forced people to accept a certain set of rules to life. Throughout the generations human beings have accepted certain facts as some sort of inevitability to live. For working class people the rules are simple. You are born, you get a job, you pay your way, bills, rent, taxes and then you die. For most this is just a fact of life. But for me, who has been afforded the luxury of time, have learnt to be critical. What makes this a fact of life? The answer is capitalism. The system of profit. It is this concept of individual gain that has forced these rules to be accepted as fact. Throughout these generations individuals, or groups of individuals have been given the rights to maximise their power and wealth, and to do this they nave used other individuals, generations who have come after them, who have been born into certain conditions and have no choice, but to work, pay rent, pay taxes and then die.

This disastrous reality has created feelings of alienation. People are separated from society as mere objects, used in a factory, or other work place, to maximise profit. Wealth is glorified and for those who don’t have it, a sense of underachievement, a sense of disempowerment simply makes people accept that reality is exactly that. Reality, and it could never change.

[toastedmonkey]

I think it is due to the capitalists being 'clever', they have created a big anti-left feeling in the western hemisphere, they have also made 'politics' dull so people stop paying attention to it, it certaintly isnt the 'norm' in todays society to take up an interest in politics, thus discouraging others from.

i suppose its comes down to that quote, i cant remember it properly - i have a feeling it was lenin, or maybe not :unsure: any way someone said something like "distract the youth with sex, tv and 'something else' and they'll keep away from politics"

As TAT said people dont bother to try and change the world, for it is 'too big' for them to have significance in.

I think they have also been tricked by government, things like social security in the UK (dont know about america) - people think of this as a great benifit of capitalism, and they also have, at least tried to, start a big campagain againest benift frauds, turning the working class against each other - turning each other in - because its the 'right' thing to do, but its merely helping capitalism, and the rich stay rich.
A better example would be the recent tuition fees debate, the right wing government appearing 'left'; making education accesiable for the working class, what is skipped over is that education is a basic nessacity and should be free. It merely swaps the working class and middle class over every generation - the current middle class wont be able to afford to send thier children to uni, but the working class can, so the working class become the middle class and the middle class become working class, the next generation swaps again etc etc.

[DEPAVER]

There is no "global proletariate."

In the U.S., most workers just want more stuff. They don't want to share ownership; they want to be owners so they can have more cheap plastic crap from Mal-Wart.

There are very few that think in terms of owners and workers. Most just think in terms of who has more and who has less, not how we can live in an egalitarian society.

I wish it wasn't so, but I'm afraid it is so.

[The Feral Underclass]

What point does such fatalism serve? What is the purpose of your pessimism? Are you saying we are all wasting out time?

[pedro san pedro]

really agree with redstars post -its a hard reality to live up to.
also, a lot of people are struggling to get by, to pay the rent and to feed the kids.
while this does not excuse apathy, i can understand why i single parents focus might be more toward providing for for the child.
most (but not all) the activist i know are single, and have no mortage

[DEPAVER]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 2 2004, 11:22 PM
What point does such fatalism serve? What is the purpose of your pessimism? Are you saying we are all wasting out time?
It's not fatalism; it's reality.

I'm basing my judgment on the people I speak to everyday, and enormous amounts of data that suggest you and I are in the far left 1%. Now think about that, because it means that 99% of the U.S. (I'm only speaking of the U.S.) not only doesn't agree, they don't have a clue what you are I are talking about!

We are not, however, wasting our time. Quite the contrary.

You have to be the change you want to see in the world and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. Trust me, people will start to ask you why you make the choices you make. Why you buy organic foods from local producers. Why you ride your bike to work. Why you don't buy into the consumer frenzy and live simply. Why you don't wear clothing with Nike emblazoned all over it.

I'm 41 years old, and spent most of my life in the system you oppose. I know how these people think, because I WAS ONE.

Today, I have a small high tech firm that offers ownership to everyone and pays fair wages. There are no managers. Yes, we have "titles," but that's just because we had to in order to get the paperwork completed. We use consensus process decision making, and our concept is one that greatly reduces the need for companies to continue buying hundreds of routers and switches to run their networks.

Frequently, people ask "Why is it so important that everyone is an equity stakeholder? What do you get everyone involved in major decisions? I don't understand how your run a company without managers."

It's a lot of fun answering those questions!

Change begins with the individual and progresses one person at a time. Unfortunately, I have lost hope that enough people will make the necessary changes before some major disaster befalls us, so that's where most of my pessimism comes into play.

[redstar2000]

You have to be the change you want to see in the world and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.

One-sided, to say the least.

The "life-choices" of any given individual are usually only seen by a very small number of other individuals (unless, I suppose, you install cameras in your apartment and put yourself on the internet).

The chance to actually explain the rationale behind those choices arises only with an even smaller number of other individuals.

It is one of the ways that social change "happens"...but it's certainly not the only way and probably not the most effective way--though it is not insignificant.

Advocacy is another way that social change is effected--a small group talks "to the masses" and eventually, if what that small group says "makes sense", it becomes a big group with considerable ability to affect events.

Direct Action is the "biggie" and also the most difficult to pull off. The risks are very high and the odds are very long...but the "jackpot" is revolution -- a complete and dramatic transformation of the entire social order.

Place your bets, please.


Today, I have a small high tech firm that offers ownership to everyone and pays fair wages.

You and your associates are small capitalists.


Frequently, people ask "Why is it so important that everyone is an equity stakeholder? Why do you get everyone involved in major decisions? I don't understand how you run a company without managers."

It's a lot of fun answering those questions!

Like many "start-ups", you are very egalitarian capitalists. You're not yet "on the radar" of the bean-counters and consultants.

My guess is that all of you repeat to yourselves daily that famous Silicon Valley mantra: IPO! IPO! I will be rich when we have our IPO!!!

(That's "Initial Public Offering" of stock for sale on Wall Street, folks, and it often results in people becoming "instant paper millionaires"...at least for a while.)


Change begins with the individual and progresses one person at a time.

No, usually it's not "one" person at a time. Occasionally it's thousands and even millions of people "at a time".


Unfortunately, I have lost hope that enough people will make the necessary changes before some major disaster befalls us, so that's where most of my pessimism comes into play.

Mid-life crisis? I noticed it in myself...and I'm not sure if I was reacting to objective conditions -- the Reagan years, etc. -- or if it was entirely subjective.

In any event, I went through the cycle: youthful optimism, middle-age pessimism, and now I feel optimistic again. (!)

Things are pretty fucking awful in a lot of ways, no question about it!

But I do detect a little breeze...as if perhaps the winds of change are beginning to rise again.

I don't expect to live long enough to see proletarian revolution actually happen...but with a bit of luck, I might see the real beginnings of that.

That would be pretty cool.

:redstar2000:

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A site about communist ideas