Leftists in Sweden fighting fascist groups

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Check out this video:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MYMVfyHi0

I'm honestly at a loss for words. I don't know what to think of this. On one hand, I love to know that there are ardent socialists even in the West--which is easy for Americans to forget. But at the same time, knifing people and smashing windows with hatchets will never win people over. If fascists or neo-Nazis had actually taken full control of the government, I wouldn't have a problem with fighting back violently. But this just seems like vandalism to me, premature vandalism.

What do you all think?

[Hrafn]

These types of methods have helped us greatly, saved many lives, and drivem Fascism from the streets and into the shadows in many areas.

The "documentary" is a poor one, however.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I guess you really do live up to that "wannabe" in your name?

And fuck VICE.

[Tenka]

Premature vandalism? When is the moment truly ripe for fucking shit up, as they say? I don't have a problem with it.

edit: Now that I have actually watched the docu (terrible, btw) I must say that the RF are pretty cool. They bash the fash and talk about socialism. May their numbers swell.

[Lensky]

Check out this video:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MYMVfyHi0

I'm honestly at a loss for words. I don't know what to think of this. On one hand, I love to know that there are ardent socialists even in the West--which is easy for Americans to forget. But at the same time, knifing people and smashing windows with hatchets will never win people over. If fascists or neo-Nazis had actually taken full control of the government, I wouldn't have a problem with fighting back violently. But this just seems like vandalism to me, premature vandalism.

What do you all think?

The centre will not hold when a real crisis erupts, we should never be afraid of violence. Antifa outnumbers militant fascists in Europe ATM, so clearly something is being done right.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

1. You are all right on the video. It's garbage, biased garbage. I did like the interview with the Revolutionary Front members. I love how proudly socialist they were, and they came off as much more reasonable than how they were portrayed.

2. I don't have a problem with what they're doing. They are right to be fighting back against these people and they have a right to take up arms to defend themselves from them.

3. I'm just wondering how much the break-ins are really going to do damage to these fascists.

I was a bit too quick to judge these leftists. You all do make some points that I had not considered. We're trying to strengthen the left, not appease the center, so we should be militant antifascists. And violence can be a useful tool. I'm just unsure of when the time becomes right to use it.

[Hrafn]

The break-ins aren't actual break-ins. Breaking down someone's door with an axe is a separate matter. In this particular case, it was - if I recall correctly - part of an ongoing campaign against a specific Nazi. Leaflets containing the guy's Fascist credentials and personal information was also spread most likely, and "Nazi pig" and such would be sprayed on his walls and car, among other acts of harassment and vandalism. The intent is to put pressure on a single individual, always an active Nazi and often a high-ranking such, to renounce Fascism and cease their engagement in the ideology. If such is done, the harassment stops. The point of this is of course both on a practical level to shred activist networks to pieces, and more widely to ensure that being an organized Nazi simply isn't a comfortable situation to be in, among other things.

[exeexe]

The time to use non verbal means vs nazis and fascist is when you think you can get away with it. Do not bring such issues into a forum where you ask the general population if its okey to do it. The general population doesn't even know what Nazism and fascism is so how could they even bring up a reasonable answer?

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

God, I'm reading more about the far-right group RevFront is fighting, the Swedish Democratic Party. Now you guys pretty much have me convinced. Check out this article (yet another by Vice; I apologize):

http://www.vice.com/read/the-iron-pipe-of-swedish-neo-fascism-0000356-v20n01?Contentpage=1

They're thugs and should be crushed. Let's hope RevFront keeps it up. :laugh:

[Hrafn]

God, I'm reading more about the far-right group RevFront is fighting, the Swedish Democratic Party. Now you guys pretty much have me convinced. Check out this article (yet another by Vice; I apologize):

http://www.vice.com/read/the-iron-pipe-of-swedish-neo-fascism-0000356-v20n01?Contentpage=1

They're thugs and should be crushed. Let's hope RevFront keeps it up. :laugh:



Correction: RevFront doesn't, in general, fight the Sweden Democrats. SD, ehile rooted in neo-Nazism and Fascism, is not a neo-Nazi or Facist party, it is deeply nationalist, deeply socially conservative, deeply populist, etc. but - with the exception of individual members - are not the Fascists that RF target. With some exceptions, of course - there was a case a while back when RF detonated some firecrackers or what not on the cars of some SD politician and the liberal media branded it a "bombing", and there's the occasional SDer getting beat up and what not.

Instead, RF generally targets - in my experience and to my knowledge - mainly the Party of the Swedes (formerly National Socialist Front, the first Nazi party to be popularly elected in Sweden since ww2) and the Swedish Resistance Movement (who are about as hyper-militant and bloodthirsty as a Hitlerisy group can become without being the Waffen-SS).

[Rafiq]

In a Europe in which what is "moderate" and what is "extreme" is starting to shift further and further in favor of the reaction - I have only praise for these Leftists. Already embedded in their hearts is a fire which is lacking in the most vocal of Communists in Europe - they need only proper direction. It's one thing to identify with the left, and it is another to truly believe our cause is a just one, and only violence is testament to these reservations.

All those 'Leftists' who are so horrified by such high spirited destruction, who cannot stand the sight of a scratch on the order of things are flies waiting, nay begging to be picked off by the enemy. Communism, our cause, our very ideological existence only becomes real when it is expressed through real force - all of you comfortable Leftists who claim that such actions "alienate" the people, how can the working masses ever adhere to our cause, sacrifice themselves if we can't even fucking knock over a few Fascists for it? How will Communism ever be a legitimate movement if not even it's core adherents are convinced of it?

And that's another thing, I'm so sick of these cynics, these self embedded skeptics, quasi-radicals at demonstrations who claim "Well, they may believe this, but I personally believe X" those who are so keen in shying away from even implying that they take responsibility for our past. What little in numbers the defenders of our legacy are, they must be completely and wholly convinced of our legitimacy. Such petty acts of violence have spoken words infinitely louder than all the irrelevant peaceful demonstrations of this century combined. Of course one cannot help but notice that anti-fascist sentiment is legitimate even in the eyes of the bourgeois-liberal order, but at least this is a start. The day that Communists take the same action against those pompous liberal scoundrels and do them theirs, is the day I become optimistic once more.

[Tim Cornelis]

A bit of a historic context is necessary to understand why the RevFront gets so much support (here). In the 1990s, neo-nazi and neo-fascist violence was rampant. By pursuing these tactics in a broader strategical framework of 'terrorism' (frightening fascists into backing down), militant antifascists have successfully driven, as Hrafn says, back 'into the shadows'.

In the Netherlands I wouldn't advocate this as there is no street presence whatsoever of/by fascists, and in that case it would be premature to target fascists in such a way. It would be incredibly ineffective. (Though being prepared is never a bad thing)

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

A bit of a historic context is necessary to understand why the RevFront gets so much support (here). In the 1990s, neo-nazi and neo-fascist violence was rampant. By pursuing these tactics in a broader strategical framework of 'terrorism' (frightening fascists into backing down), militant antifascists have successfully driven, as Hrafn says, back 'into the shadows'.

Sweet! I've really been schooled on this thread, and I had it coming. But I've become more informed now. Sometimes, from the comfort of my laptop and armchair, I forget that to be a real socialist you have to get your hands dirty.