Chile and Allende

[flaming bolshevik]

Coming from a right wing Chilean family(who apparently suffered under him) I've been constantly told that Allende was a horrible dictator that restricted free speech and shit like that, so I'm wondering what are your thoughts on him and what could have he done better?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Coming from a right wing Chilean family(who apparently suffered under him) I've been constantly told that Allende was a horrible dictator that restricted free speech and shit like that

Ask your family what they think Pinochet did to Victor Jara's "Free speech"


so I'm wondering what are your thoughts on him and what could have he done better?

For one thing, made sure that people other than reactionary cliques of generals controlled the use of force in his country (though obviously that wouldn't have exactly been easy for him to do without just instigating a coup even sooner).

[tuwix]

Coming from a right wing Chilean family(who apparently suffered under him) I've been constantly told that Allende was a horrible dictator that restricted free speech and shit like that, so I'm wondering what are your thoughts on him and what could have he done better?

Allende wasn't dictator and he wasn't responsible for any violation of freedom or human rights.

However, Allende didn't know very much about economics. His government invited Cuban instructors who were earlier instructed by Russian. And it had to cause economic problems and actually did.
Allende didn't know true sense of Marx works. He could transform all enterprises that employed more than his owner or his family into cooperatives and create state enterprises build as new in key sectors of economy. He could, if he knew what is a difference between nationalization and socialization. But it seems that he wanted a socialism but he didn't exactly what does it really mean.

[Lensky]

The Chilean economy being in shambles had everything to do with American intervention and upper class collaboration and nothing to do with 'Cuban advisors'.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Allende didn't know true sense of Marx works. He could transform all enterprises that employed more than his owner or his family into cooperatives and create state enterprises build as new in key sectors of economy.

In other words, he could have been a social-democrat. Which incidentally he was, but at least he was a social-democrat who was sane enough to notice the social character of modern industrial production.

There is nothing Allende could have done to avert reaction in Chile short of overthrowing himself. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. To truly stop imperialist intervention, domestic reaction and so on - this requires a socialist revolution. And that requires smashing the bourgeois state, "even if" a "socialist" presides over it. In the absence of a socialist revolution, imperialism would either overthrow Allende or pressure him into a course that, while just as capitalist as his previous course, was more amenable to imperial powers.

[tuwix]

In other words, he could have been a social-democrat.

No. In other words, you aren't able to understand economics and that which I wrote about Allende is to complicated for you due to lack of economic knowledge.

[BolshevikBabe]

No. In other words, you aren't able to understand economics and that which I wrote about Allende is to complicated for you due to lack of economic knowledge.

Not everyone who disagrees with you does so because they're an idiot.

[CubanDream]

Coming from a right wing Chilean family(who apparently suffered under him) I've been constantly told that Allende was a horrible dictator that restricted free speech and shit like that, so I'm wondering what are your thoughts on him and what could have he done better?


Allende was too much of a Liberal so he blew his chance.

He never bothered getting tooled up (ie: building his own military), so got thrown out by Pinochet and his small band of followers.

Half baked, light weight socialism like Allende's can never stand up to the big boys. Power must be consolidated, like Lenin and Stalin did.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

If Allende had just tried to prevent a coup by buying a bunch of Russian tanks, it just would have made it that much easier for Pinochet to storm into Santiago. The problem wasn't insufficient military spending (perhaps had he been overthrown by the Argentine Juntas or something, such a case could have been made), it was with a working class which did not have the means or organization to act autonomously in defense of the regime.

[CubanDream]

yep, workers had no bite , no militia, no guns etc.. revolutions must be defended by physical force in the early stages, otherwise the rightists just take over, as they tend to love guns and violence so much more

[Geiseric]

What a shitty thread. Allende was enough of a "liberal" for the CIA to overthrow him and institute neoliberalism. He, unlike the people here, was actually loved by the masses.

[Per Levy]

What a shitty thread.

geis is back with a shitty post who would've guessed.


Allende was enough of a "liberal" for the CIA to overthrow him and institute neoliberalism.

mossadegh, as an example, was a nationalist and was overthrown, like many nationalists and others who wherent a 100% in the pockets of the usa. that still doesnt change the fact that allende was a social democrat who didnt touch the bougeois instituions like the military.


He, unlike the people here, was actually loved by the masses.

and unlike you as well geis, or are you loved by "the masses"? also what does that mean anyway? is that now a good trait or something? reactionaries, conservatives, fascists and what not were also loved by "the masses", should they be supportet?

[Geiseric]

geis is back with a shitty post who would've guessed.



mossadegh, as an example, was a nationalist and was overthrown, like many nationalists and others who wherent a 100% in the pockets of the usa. that still doesnt change the fact that allende was a social democrat who didnt touch the bougeois instituions like the military.



and unlike you as well geis, or are you loved by "the masses"? also what does that mean anyway? is that now a good trait or something? reactionaries, conservatives, fascists and what not were also loved by "the masses", should they be supportet?

Mossadegh was a better alternative than the taliban, youd have to be stupid to think otherwise. Allende was actually giving in to the chilean class struggle instead of fighting against it. That was the major difference between him and pinochet.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Allende pretty much was a liberal, but you have to realize that the CIA does not care about ideology. They care about action. Allende threatened a few major corporations by planning to nationalize certain resources. That's honestly as fucking simple as it needs to be.

Allende was not only a liberal but a liberal idealist. He believed heavily in the parliamentary system. All in all, he was genuinely a great person it's just he was living in a fantasyland. And due to that, he woke up one morning to fighter jets bombing the presidential building and his good friend Pinochet acting as the CIA's hired thug.

And I just realized that I didn't even answer the question in the thread. I don't think he restricted free speech, that's like the most common right wing propaganda to assert against any perceived leftist leader. If you wanna talk about restricting free speech, ask your family how they feel about Pinochet having rapid public executions and torture in giant stadiums starting pretty much the day he took power.