Should the left be doing more?

[Comrade Thomas]

Personally, I find that the left has largely become an inactive, debating society. Debating abstract ideas which of course are completely relevant however at the same time they are distinct.

Should the left be opening up soup kitchens?
Having more communal living?

Those are just a few ideas that come to mind but I mean practical day-to-day things which actually help people.

[Tim Cornelis]

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the far-left. Many Trotskyist sects engage in hyper-activism. Showing up at every protest with their signs. It's not really effective. There's also 'soup kitchens' by Food not Bombs, who are generally anarchistic.

Yes, I do support things like soup kitchens, housing struggles, culture, sports, hobbies, workplace struggles and organising, etc. Essentially what I advocate is a combination of the strategies of the Seattle Solidarity Network and Philly Socialists.

There's a bit of a discussion here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/revolutionary-marxist-group-t188977/index.html?t=188977

[exeexe]

Dont think that just because the left in England doesnt do anything, then the left in other areas arent doing anything too. If the workers in your local area think the left should do more then do more.
Here we are doing a lot of those things you were talking about, and by "here" i do not mean Denmark but the city i live in.

[Ele'ill]

Should the left be doing more?

there's nothing that can be done

[Lensky]

Students need to regain the universities from reactionaries and liberals in North America and Eastern Europe, make them strictly leftist areas of agitation.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

Are you a member of an active political party or organisation? If you are, you should probably consider joining a different one.

The various radical left groups in my neck of the woods are quite active and organise all types of activities. Anything from screening, to stands where we sell our publications, to picketing, to visiting and supporting strikes, to discussions, to debates, to lectures, to protests, to speeches in auditoriums, to bugging people in the street or at university:laugh:. This week we collaborated with a few other groups to organise the screening of the new documentary of a Greek left-wing film maker.

Do I wish we were more active? Yes. But a party is made up of people who have to work together to organise activities and actually take part in them as well. Sadly, not everyone is available all the time.

[Skyhilist]

Any statisticians on the left? If so, I think personally that it'd be wise to apply statistics to our strategies. I mean all that we generally have to go on now as to what strategies are most likely to succeed is anecdotal evidence. If we can gather statistical data on what specific strategies work for varying but specific goals, under varying but specific conditions, then we'll have insights into what will work best for achieving our goals via activism that are far greater than the anecdotal insights we have now.

Also, lack of a clear goal is often a problem. Viewing things as "lets make a difference" is simply to vague. If you're engaging in activism, you should have a specific goal for what your activism wants to accomplish. Only then can statistical analysis even be done to see what will make your goal most likely to come to fruition.

Also, a side note: the statistics might just say we're fucked no matter what we do in many if not most cases, since we're such a small minority. So there's that too. If statistics tell you that campaign X has a 1/1000 chance of succeeding and campaign Y has a 1/10000 chance in succeeding, it's probably not worth the effort to go along with campaign X even though it has a higher success rate, when there are likely many other important issues that can be targeted with a much higher success rate, and should be prioritized with this factored in.

[The Idler]

You don't need to be left-wing to open a soup kitchen or live communally. Socialists should be firmly aimed at capturing political power not any of the other hyper-activism activities like building fronts, petitions, marches, demos etc. Not that hyper-activists will listen to this, so if you want to join them, I'm sure you can find a group already doing precisely any activities you suggest.

[Loony Le Fist]

Personally, I find that the left has largely become an inactive, debating society. Debating abstract ideas which of course are completely relevant however at the same time they are distinct.

Should the left be opening up soup kitchens?
Having more communal living?

Those are just a few ideas that come to mind but I mean practical day-to-day things which actually help people.

Absolutely. Sitting around debating abstract ideas only serves to alienate us from the very same individuals we want to help the most. Only through outreach can we demonstrate to people that we are on their side. :laugh:

[Futility Personified]

I wonder if Ladbrookes would take a cheeky flutter on how long this thread will survive before it descends into sectarian bickering...

I kinda feel that a lot of what christian groups do (aside from the street pastors, unless leftists start robin hooding drug dealers and passing out the candy late at night) are things leftists should be doing.

Soup kitchens, clothes swaps, workshops... I hear lots of these things do go on and deserve full support. Putting lack of money where the mouth is seems a lot more practical to me than flogging newspapers.

Creating cultural activities and spaces to invite people to participate should also be done. We're not all artists or artisans but if revolutions ever come I envision cultural mania, detonations of creativity and self expression.

These things all happen, so should the left be doing more? If it isn't, there are reasons why. What are those reasons?

[Geiseric]

OP is correct. What are any of the people here doing about austerity? Zilch, nada. A working class political party has to be formed in every country, that is the first task of militants. Not cheerleading dictators a la maoists nor spendng time self masturbating about how you and your friends are more "left" than other socialists.

[DOOM]

there's nothing that can be done

This.
I mean, protests and welfare actions such as soup kitchens are okay, but they don't really serve a future revolution. There's nothing that can be done, besides talking on boards about communism and debating with people interested in this topic.

Are Trotskyites really such hyper-activists or is this a myth?:D

[helot]

This.
I mean, protests and welfare actions such as soup kitchens are okay, but they don't really serve a future revolution. There's nothing that can be done, besides talking on boards about communism and debating with people interested in this topic.



That sounds like a cop-out. If all we do is sit on our arses talking we might as well stop with all this talk and consign ourselves and the rest of the working class to misery and destitution. Don't know about you but i'm not going to stand back and let myself and thosee around me get fucked over again and again without a fight.

"Oh there's just nothing you can do" is the cry of the dead who just don't know it yet.

[DOOM]

That sounds like a cop-out. If all we do is sit on our arses talking we might as well stop with all this talk and consign ourselves and the rest of the working class to misery and destitution.


"Oh there's just nothing you can do" is the cry of the dead who just don't know it yet.

The effect generated by such actions is negligible. Raising consciousness is good, but such actions aren't really effective in doing this.

[helot]

The effect generated by such actions is negligible. Raising consciousness is good, but such actions aren't really effective in doing this.


You know what isn't effective? A talking shop.


Btw, i never said anything about demos or anything but we do need to get involved in struggles.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

The left has too much of its own baggage to shed before it can help anyone. The level of intellectual dishonesty that is present in most organizations is enough to shock normal committed people out of continuing their association. The idea that releasing this upon a general population will lead to positive results is crazy, and ignores the fact that groups have been trying it for decades without success. Clearly revolutionaries should be doing something, but what that is is not readily apparent. The fact that people are suggesting soup kitchens or "getting involved in struggles" as if these things aren't already happening really should show us how much these things actually count for.

[Црвена]

I think we need to clean ourselves up, first. Settle the arguments, help each other improve our theories, compromise and work out a strategy. Then we can start being more active in communities and bringing about class consciousness amongst the working class and all the cool stuff.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I think we need to clean ourselves up, first. Settle the arguments, help each other improve our theories, compromise and work out a strategy. Then we can start being more active in communities and bringing about class consciousness amongst the working class and all the cool stuff.

I think one of the main lessons of the history of the labour movement is that ideas and theories only become clear in the process of socialist struggle. Not to mention that the workers themselves won't wait for us.

Of course, "the left" should do more, but at the same time, the neurotic demand to "do more! now!" only leads to running around in circles, a spastic hyper-activism that gives the illusion of moving forward when one is standing still or regressing - not to mention how it is often used as an excuse to get in bed with social-democrats and liberals of all kinds.

[Left Voice]

I think the biggest thing that the left has failed to do is offer an alternative narrative to the one promoted by the right wing that has gained widespread acceptance.

[Црвена]

I think one of the main lessons of the history of the labour movement is that ideas and theories only become clear in the process of socialist struggle. Not to mention that the workers themselves won't wait for us.

Of course, "the left" should do more, but at the same time, the neurotic demand to "do more! now!" only leads to running around in circles, a spastic hyper-activism that gives the illusion of moving forward when one is standing still or regressing - not to mention how it is often used as an excuse to get in bed with social-democrats and liberals of all kinds.

The problem with the left, though, is that we are so divided. Last time we started our revolution without fully uniting, we ended up with statism vs anarchy, rather than a united left vs fascism and capitalism. This is because we all disagreed and hadn't cleared up our disagreements and just ended up with a load of fighting within the left, which lead eventually to a victory on the right. I think we need to continue to debate until we find a common solution so that all of us know what we're trying to convince the workers of before we start trying to convince them.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

The problem with the left, though, is that we are so divided. Last time we started our revolution without fully uniting, we ended up with statism vs anarchy, rather than a united left vs fascism and capitalism. This is because we all disagreed and hadn't cleared up our disagreements and just ended up with a load of fighting within the left, which lead eventually to a victory on the right. I think we need to continue to debate until we find a common solution so that all of us know what we're trying to convince the workers of before we start trying to convince them.

On the contrary, the last social revolution, the October Revolution, only succeeded because Bolsheviks (and United Internationalists, Mezhrayontsi and other smaller groups that folded into the Bolsheviks) refused to unite with the rest of "the left" in Russia, from Popular Socialists to Mensheviks. If they had, they would have participated in the Provisional Government and led the Russian workers through years of misery and death in service of Russian imperialist trusts.

A correct line might not give any advantage - although I would argue otherwise - but simply "uniting" with every shade of opinion that calls itself socialist guarantees that the most conservative elements will prevail.

Besides, the workers are not some group that is alien to communists - the workers are already with us, they should be the majority of us.

[Ele'ill]

"Oh there's just nothing you can do" is the cry of the dead who just don't know it yet.

yup

[Ele'ill]

A working class political party has to be formed in every country, that is the first task of militants.

How are those working out? How can you define 'the working class' as such a singular thing facing such singular problems that 1 party could do anything at all other than subjugate people's needs and desires

[DigitalBluster]

Mikhail Bakunin, writing in 1873:


I am now convinced that the time for grand theoretical discourses, written or spoken, is over. During the last nine years more than enough ideas for the salvation of the world have been developed in the International (if the world can be saved by ideas) and I defy anyone to come up with a new one.

This is the time not for ideas but for action, for deeds. Above all, now is the time for the organization of the forces of the proletariat. But this organization must be the task of the proletariat itself. If I were young, I would live among the workers and share their life of toil, would together with them participate in this necessary work of proletarian organization.

[Thirsty Crow]

Personally, I find that the left has largely become an inactive, debating society. Debating abstract ideas which of course are completely relevant however at the same time they are distinct.

Should the left be opening up soup kitchens?
Having more communal living?

First to address these concrete ideas.

In the first place, communal living and soup kitchens require financial resources. This in itself presents a problem for the existing organizations of the revolutionary left (I'm assuming this is what you mean by "the left" - excluding various social democrat orgs which command much more resources).
Other than that, state regulations, sometimes very strict ones, are in place when it comes to charity institutions such as soup kitchens (for instance, here where I live this isn't at all possible for any actor other than a branch of the state).

Apart from this, there is the question of the purpose of such activities, especially in relation to very limited financial resources. It's all nice to talk about alternative culture (some folks harp on and on about that around here when they actually mean some forms of mutual aid), but just as the refrain "plurality of tactics" this disregards very material and real constraints on possible activities.

It's also unclear what actual political effect is expected here. Some sort of a back door radicalization, through the masses' gratitude or something? I don't think I need to say that this is some patronizing bullshit (not accusing you of doing this, mind you).

Your approach also seems to disregard the causes for this state of the left - and I don't think these can be attributed predominantly to political and ideological failure. Namely, there is some kind of a pattern I think in that whenever the broad workers' movement is driven back and decimated, the existing left is simply forced into isolation. I also believe this was the case during the last 30 years or so; now the situation for some kind of a class resurgence is here, in the sense of further attacks being leveled against us (austerity and the crisis). But a fightback on a more massive scale is really sporadic and insufficient (especially because any fightback nowadays simply must be international in scope due to characteristics of contemporary capital; e.g. the EU and capital flows with threats of flight of capital and so on).

In such a situation, the left simply cannot do much; what we can do is to get our shit together and hammer out the political agreements and disagreements in the open. This may serve as the basis for organizational forms which might in turn form the backbone for a continued practice - both political and at the point of production/social reproduction (by latter I mean activities within the sphere of community organizations and movements).


Mikhail Bakunin, writing in 1873:
But we are living in 2014.

[DigitalBluster]

But we are living in 2014.

Which means we have another 141 years of ideas to draw from.

[(A)]

The problem with the left, though, is that we are so divided. Last time we started our revolution without fully uniting, we ended up with statism vs anarchy, rather than a united left vs fascism and capitalism. This is because we all disagreed and hadn't cleared up our disagreements and just ended up with a load of fighting within the left, which lead eventually to a victory on the right. I think we need to continue to debate until we find a common solution so that all of us know what we're trying to convince the workers of before we start trying to convince them.

Agreed, I think when the revolution occurs it will be with a united front. Not one ideology or single party but a union of all socialists with the same goal.
The destruction of Capitalism.

[#FF0000]

Agreed, I think when the revolution occurs it will be with a united front. Not one ideology or single party but a union of all socialists with the same goal.
The destruction of Capitalism.

Not all self-described socialists want the destruction of Capitalism, though.

[Orange Juche]

Should the left be opening up soup kitchens?
Having more communal living?

These things would be far far far more proactive than what the majority of socialist political parties currently do, yes.