Metaphysics

[4thInter]

Whats the marxist view on metaphysics?

[Sinister Intents]

That it's antimateriaistic and has no basis in reality?

I actually don't know a whole lot about metaphysics

[Comrade Jacob]

I do believe it is viewed negatively for it's anti-materialist nature.

[Sinister Intents]

I do believe it is viewed negatively for it's anti-materialist nature.

Do you know what it is?

[Comrade Jacob]

Do you know what it is?

You literally summed up one definition of it. I just looked it up to make sure.
The branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, identity, time, and space:
they would regard the question of the initial conditions for the universe as belonging to the realm of metaphysics or religion
1.1Abstract theory with no basis in reality:
his concept of society as an organic entity is, for market liberals, simply metaphysics

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/metaphysics

Not going to lie, I don't know much of it either.

[Kill all the fetuses!]

Whats the marxist view on metaphysics?

As far as I understand, Marxists do oppose metaphysics, on the grounds that it's not dialectical. In fact, metaphysical method is the very opposite of dialectical.

In essence, it views things as separate from one another, i.e. when it considers some idea, it considers that idea in isolation, without change and movement, it wants to get some pure, holy and ever-lasting idea/principle, which never changes.

Dialectics says that it's nonsense, because there is nothing independent of anything else and there is nothing that last forever without change.

I think Engels deals with this specific question briefly in his Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.

However, someone with better grasp of the problem might explain it better, that's how I understand it anyway.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

I know you're trolling and that everyone has pretty much said it but….

Yeah, Marxist analyses don't give a shit about metaphysics.

Also, don't ever let any douche bags tell you that you can't believe in metaphysical shit if you accept Marxism. You just have to separate it. Marxism only deals with…well….materials. Physical things made of atoms. And electrons… and protons…. and neutrons…. Wait, what the fuck makes up electrons? I mean, it's like a paradox of something having to be made up of infinitely smaller units, yet there isn't infinite space. O_O Holy shit. Holy shit...:ohmy:

[Jemdet Nasr]

Wait, what the fuck makes up electrons? I mean, it's like a paradox of something having to be made up of infinitely smaller units, yet there isn't infinite space. O_O Holy shit. Holy shit...:ohmy:

Electrons are elementary particles, meaning that, in modern quantum physics, they are one of the most basic things, with no known components or substructure. There are a number of theories about what elementary particles are made up of, String Theory being the most well known to most people, but there is little consensus on this issue and no experimental data regarding it.

As for Metaphysics, I don't really have anything to add. Everyone else has got it pretty well covered, I think.

[RedWorker]

Relax people, metaphysics are not anti-Marxist. :laugh: And the view that "the only thing that exists is our reality" is a metaphysical view too.

I don't think Marxism has anything to say about metaphysics. And I don't think there is anything neccessarily against materialism in metaphysics.

Now, a discussion about the class character of metaphysics... :D

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

pataphysics is where it gets really interesting!

[Comrade #138672]

Relax people, metaphysics are not anti-Marxist. :laugh: And the view that "the only thing that exists is our reality" is a metaphysical view too.

I don't think Marxism has anything to say about metaphysics. And I don't think there is anything neccessarily against materialism in metaphysics.Even if the assumption that "the only thing that exists is our reality" is metaphysical, then that would still be very different from assuming more about reality than that. It does not matter, though. Since we cannot say anything about the truth or non-truth of any metaphysical proposition, we should not deal with metaphysics at all. We can only deal with the physical world. Thus, the assumption that "the only thing that exists is our reality" is perhaps strictly speaking metaphysical, it is mostly a pragmatic view arising from a materialist point of view. So yes, metaphysics is anti-materialist and anti-Marxist.


Now, a discussion about the class character of metaphysics... :DThat would be the same discussion as the discussion about the class character of idealism, something which Marx and Engels already dealt with more than a century ago.

[RedWorker]

The above post is the perfect explanation of why many people have trouble not disliking RevLeft.

[Comrade #138672]

Why, if I may ask? If you honestly believe that my post makes people dislike RevLeft, then please explain what it is that makes it so. I might be able to learn from it.

[DOOM]

God philosophy is so confusing

[ckaihatsu]

[I] don't think there is anything neccessarily against materialism in metaphysics.


It's just a purely abstracted concern with the relationship between the particular and the general -- since it's an abstraction of an abstraction it's just mental masturbation.

(It could also be thought of as the usefulness of category-based groupings, versus the usefulness of narratives / descriptions of all elements within a category.)


Generalizations-Characterizations

http://s6.postimage.org/dakqpbvu5/2714844340046342459_Quxppf_fs.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/dakqpbvu5/)


---





pataphysics is where it gets really interesting!





"Pataphysics "the science of the particular", does not, therefore, study the rules governing the general recurrence of a periodic incident (the expected case) so much as study the games governing the special occurrence of a sporadic accident (the excepted case).




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Pataphysics


I'll suggest that this area (of outlying cases, from the norm) is now covered by complexity theory:





complexity theory

n.

The study of how order, structure, and pattern arise from extremely complicated, apparently chaotic systems.




http://www.thefreedictionary.com/complexity+theory


Also:


Universal Pattern of Organization of Living Systems and Viable Human Social Systems

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2548017&postcount=167

[blake 3:17]

The most common metaphysical position for Marxists is an ontological materialism. While largely sympathetic to that perspective, I don't see that as a necessity.

[Sinister Intents]

http://www.crystalinks.com/

This page contains a tab that has stuff apparently doing with metaphysics, like: Alchemy, Aliens & UFOs, Channeling, Crystals, Divination, Mystery Schools, Physical Development, The Other Side, The Unexplained.......

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

The most common metaphysical position for Marxists is an ontological materialism. While largely sympathetic to that perspective, I don't see that as a necessity.

Yeah this ... Marx and Engels, coming off of Feuerbach, develop a materialist metaphysics in response to the idealist metaphysics of Hegel and other thinkers.

That said, Marx and Engels did not solve all metaphysical problems when they argued for materialism, but a radical and revolutionary analysis of our conditions must be able to account for the influence of material conditions on something's (or someone's) nature.


http://www.crystalinks.com/

This page contains a tab that has stuff apparently doing with metaphysics, like: Alchemy, Aliens & UFOs, Channeling, Crystals, Divination, Mystery Schools, Physical Development, The Other Side, The Unexplained.......

There's philosophical Metaphysics (which is the origin of the term), and there is "metaphysics" ... I'll let you figure out where things like UFOs fall on that divide.

[Sinister Intents]

Yeah this ... Marx and Engels, coming off of Feuerbach, develop a materialist metaphysics in response to the idealist metaphysics of Hegel and other thinkers.

That said, Marx and Engels did not solve all metaphysical problems when they argued for materialism, but a radical and revolutionary analysis of our conditions must be able to account for the influence of material conditions on something's (or someone's) nature.



There's philosophical Metaphysics (which is the origin of the term), and there is "metaphysics" ... I'll let you figure out where things like UFOs fall on that divide.

Marx n Engels are great! But going on what I posted above, some of those things fascinate me, particularly channeling and divination, things I'll be most certainly looking into hehe...

[Slavic]

Marx n Engels are great! But going on what I posted above, some of those things fascinate me, particularly channeling and divination, things I'll be most certainly looking into hehe...

Your looking at "new age" metaphysics not philosophical metaphysics

[Sinister Intents]

Your looking at "new age" metaphysics not philosophical metaphysics

Don't judge me :laugh: this new age shit is definitely anti materialist