Where do you think we are heading? Are my concerns real or am I being too pessmistic?

[Gia]

Hello everyone, first of all, I want to say sorry for not checking in lately, I've had some rough times, switched 2 jobs in the private sector and experienced first-hand how capitalism manages to fuck you from behind while chanting proudly that it's all within legal bounderies and you're the one who actually signed up for it. I'm so bitter about my experiences, but this a topic for another time..

Anyway, maybe this has been adressed before, but after reading the resulsts in the European elections and seeing how the far-right seems to be taking off and gaining more terrain than ever, I just can't help but feel a little worried when I think about were we might be heading in the future given all these facts. I'm fearing that, with all the economical issues the world is confronting, this might be a perfect opportunity for reactionary politics to take over and I can only shudder to think when I imagine those scenarios developping.

What is happening? Is the left not strong or assertive enough that more and more people choose to align themselves with the far-right?

These toughts have been flowing through my mind a lot lately and I just wanted to know how do you guys feel about these things.

Best wishes!:)

[Comrade Jacob]

I think the west will fall into fascism but out of that a communist uprising will happen.

[Gia]

I think the west will fall into fascism but out of that a communist uprising will happen.

That is actually one of my biggest fears... I guess I can only hope not to live to the day.

[Jemdet Nasr]

I think we will soon start seeing a rise in leftism as well. I think the situation is less one of simply fascists becoming more prevalent, and more one of people moving more and more towards the extremes of the spectrum as Capitalism screws them over.

After this election cycle, I'm sure we'll see more and more leftists as well.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

yeah, I think the sharp rise of the far right might actually end up being something of a rallying call - at the very least it's going to shake up a chunk of the apathetic bloc in Europe. As scary as it looks a lot of the right's apparent support seems to me quite shallow - relatively small groups of supporters blown out of proportion by low electoral turnout etcetera. Its also important to consider that many non-rightists view the far right (rather foolishly, I think) as a provocative protest vote. Considering the moribund state of most of the electoral left I can't say I'm surprised.

One thing that reassures me a bit is in the UK at least the 'hard core' supporters of the right are actually quite old - not even the last generation but the one before that or even older. The support of the 'acceptable face' of the UK right, UKIP is mostly concentrated amongst rural/small town over-fifties.

I'm not going to say I'm optimistic - but I think this supposed right-wing 'earthquake' is really not as big a deal as they'd like to make out - indeed, their big weakness is how potentially fragile their support actually is.

[Gia]

I think we will soon start seeing a rise in leftism as well. I think the situation is less one of simply fascists becoming more prevalent, and more one of people moving more and more towards the extremes of the spectrum as Capitalism screws them over.

After this election cycle, I'm sure we'll see more and more leftists as well.

You bring an interesting point, one I was also thinking of earlier, could it be, do you think, not neccessarily that more people side with the far-right, but an increasing number of people become more and more polarized in their political views? I sure hope you are right and that we will see a rise of the left soon, hopefully new and improved instead of spineless, which seems to be the case in quite a few countries now.


yeah, I think the sharp rise of the far right might actually end up being something of a rallying call - at the very least it's going to shake up a chunk of the apathetic bloc in Europe. As scary as it looks a lot of the right's apparent support seems to me quite shallow - relatively small groups of supporters blown out of proportion by low electoral turnout etcetera. Its also important to consider that many non-rightists view the far right (rather foolishly, I think) as a provocative protest vote. Considering the moribund state of most of the electoral left I can't say I'm surprised.

One thing that reassures me a bit is in the UK at least the 'hard core' supporters of the right are actually quite old - not even the last generation but the one before that or even older. The support of the 'acceptable face' of the UK right, UKIP is mostly concentrated amongst rural/small town over-fifties.

I'm not going to say I'm optimistic - but I think this supposed right-wing 'earthquake' is really not as big a deal as they'd like to make out - indeed, their big weakness is how potentially fragile their support actually is.

It's possible that you are right, I mean, it's understandable that many people found themselves dissapointed with the, as you rightly pointed out, "moribund state of most of the electoral left" and chose to turn to the right not because they themselves hold strong right wing principles, but just out of dissapointement and probably hoping for better, not the wisest decision indeed.

Most old people are in general a lot less willing to embrace another set of principles and values once they're set in their way, so what you are saying about UKIP it is indeed kind of reassuring, at least in a certain amount.

Maybe a lot of far-right's base of support is fragile, I can't say I know for sure tough, but I think it is the left's job to educate people and be consistent and assertive in its views and actions in order to avoid the reactionaries indoctrinating too many minds.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I mean this is just a thought but it would be rather ironic that the rise in fascist movements in Europe could precipitate a rise in communist and anti fascist sentiment that could triumph. A role reversal if you will. Worryingly though there is a lot ofpro putinism within some groups of the left

[motion denied]

We are heading to barbarism.

Well, we already live in barbarism, so... heading to a worse form of barbarism.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

At the rate climate change is accelerating, we're approaching a point where a future with any advanced economic system, be it capitalism or communism, will be unlikely.

[erupt]

The whole world is heading towards a militant society, however, not everyone will be fighting for the same reasons. Fundamental religion isn't going anywhere, and they'll be fighting over that for a while. There will be a point that that stops, though, too.

Certain cultures will be right vs. left, but some will be Christian vs. Muslim, and some will be Sunni Muslim vs. Shi'ite Muslim. Hopefully education can eliminate some of this needless, reactionary-type conflict so that there's more solidarity between the international working class.

Speaking of which, for better or worse since I know nothing about this group, militant Leftism is already on the rise in response to the Right's parliamentary gains; I saw an eleven minute Vice documentary (again, I know nothing of their journalist credentials) about the Revolutionary Front in Sweden, a group of self-proclaimed "revolutionary socialists" who attempt to combat known Fascists it seems.

I'm sure this can and will only spread.

[Sinister Intents]

That is actually one of my biggest fears... I guess I can only hope not to live to the day.

I used to be afraid the USA was gonna become fascist. Now I'm sure it and the west is going to become worse than what we can imagine. Consider all the technology we have is being used to monitor us whether we pike it or not. Some people think all this monitoring is good for security. I see it as a means of the state studying the cogs in the machine to seek better ways to rule

[Bala Perdida]

I used to be afraid the USA was gonna become fascist. Now I'm sure it and the west is going to become worse than what we can imagine. Consider all the technology we have is being used to monitor us whether we pike it or not. Some people think all this monitoring is good for security. I see it as a means of the state studying the cogs in the machine to seek better ways to rule
A lot of people still don't know, or deny, that the government watches it's people. I get called a conspiracy theorist when I bring up the fact. Others respond with "the government doesn't care that you wack off!" I guess creating a submissive culture is working for them.

[erupt]

I used to be afraid the USA was gonna become fascist. Now I'm sure it and the west is going to become worse than what we can imagine. Consider all the technology we have is being used to monitor us whether we pike it or not. Some people think all this monitoring is good for security. I see it as a means of the state studying the cogs in the machine to seek better ways to rule

Also consider all the technology being used in full-scale warfare. The drone strikes in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc. are destructive enough; imagine multiple nations going at it in a manner the likes of World War II, but with these massive technological advances it would be the likes of which the world has never seen, not to sound dramatic.


A lot of people still don't know, or deny, that the government watches it's people. I get called a conspiracy theorist when I bring up the fact. Others respond with "the government doesn't care that you wack off!" I guess creating a submissive culture is working for them.

The point isn't what they care about that we're viewing online, it's the fact they have the ability to monitor it so well, which means they can come after certain groups if they feel it's necessary. I, for one, hope they catch and prosecute as many pedophiles as possible; that seems like the only good thing that can come out of mass surveillance on civilians.

[Sinister Intents]

A lot of people still don't know, or deny, that the government watches it's people. I get called a conspiracy theorist when I bring up the fact. Others respond with "the government doesn't care that you wack off!" I guess creating a submissive culture is working for them.

I've been called conspiracy theorist and it seems to be a way of dismissal because they're religiously terrified of the truth and having their pathetic eggshell realities shattered in front of them. To expose them to the atrocities of their gods; the bourgeois state and the capitalist economy. To expose them to this is to contradict the fables which they hold most dear. Visions of a country red, white, and blue that is the protector of the world. Whilst this nation is a bloodthirsthy, putrid, white nation that hates those that live below. I'd love to destroy people's perceived realities, but raising class consciousness seems futile, but perhaps spreading class hatred is useful?

I've been called terrorist for various reasons

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I used to be afraid the USA was gonna become fascist. Now I'm sure it and the west is going to become worse than what we can imagine. Consider all the technology we have is being used to monitor us whether we pike it or not. Some people think all this monitoring is good for security. I see it as a means of the state studying the cogs in the machine to seek better ways to rule

Fascism is about more than just monitoring its people. Supposedly leftist regimes like the GDR and liberal governments have monitored their people just as much as fascist regimes. We should be careful using fascist to just describe any authoritarian society with no privacy, as it waters down what fascism means.

[RedWorker]

People get fucked by capitalism and vote for anyone with an anti-establishement speech. This is helped by the fact that they have no knowledge about politics.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

You're right Gia. And here's why.

The far right, as in ultra nationalists and fascists, are unified. They are reactionaries who will stop at nothing to push back against progressive ideas. They believe that each nation has the right to run itself based on delusions of grandeur relating to a "golden age" past before enlightenment ideals appeared on the scene. So, fascists from different nations will even collaborate and respect each other in their quest to destroy progressive ideas and exert nationalistic fervor for their respective nations. It's almost like friendly competition which seems counter intuitive due to their extreme xenophobia and racism.

Now on the left, there is not much unity. Anarchists and Marxists won't work together. Generally they will come together in the name of opposing fascism, but it's still hard for anyone on the left to collaborate with different tendencies. There is not much international unity ironically. Plus fascism is a very very simple ideology that plays on primitive animalistic instincts of systematic violence, and it's easier for people to follow. Understanding class struggle is more difficult and unfortunately people get burned out and might turn to the extreme right.

[Црвена]

I was shocked by the blatant fascism of some of the European election winners, and in America fascism is continuously being accepted under the guise of patriotism, which is exactly how the fascists rose in the 20th century. Since the last big political war was against "communism," the whole of the West has swung to the right in response to distance themselves from "communism." Some wildly optimistic part of me thinks this approaching rebirth of right-wing extremism could be an opportunity for the left to unite, but the last time the left-wing tried to unite in the name of anti-fascism (the Spanish Civil War) it did not end well. You're right to be pessimistic.

[4thInter]

That is actually one of my biggest fears... I guess I can only hope not to live to the day.
Your fear, ha! I'm living through it. The place are militarized, the gov monitors everything, and politicians brainwash the youth... whats to say it already hasn't happened?:ohmy:

[Tim Cornelis]

Your fear, ha! I'm living through it. The place are militarized, the gov monitors everything, and politicians brainwash the youth... whats to say it already hasn't happened?:ohmy:

Well an actual analysis of fascism is what.

[4thInter]

Hello everyone, first of all, I want to say sorry for not checking in lately, I've had some rough times, switched 2 jobs in the private sector and experienced first-hand how capitalism manages to fuck you from behind while chanting proudly that it's all within legal bounderies and you're the one who actually signed up for it. I'm so bitter about my experiences, but this a topic for another time..

Anyway, maybe this has been adressed before, but after reading the resulsts in the European elections and seeing how the far-right seems to be taking off and gaining more terrain than ever, I just can't help but feel a little worried when I think about were we might be heading in the future given all these facts. I'm fearing that, with all the economical issues the world is confronting, this might be a perfect opportunity for reactionary politics to take over and I can only shudder to think when I imagine those scenarios developping.

What is happening? Is the left not strong or assertive enough that more and more people choose to align themselves with the far-right?

These toughts have been flowing through my mind a lot lately and I just wanted to know how do you guys feel about these things.

Best wishes!:)

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=1456&pictureid=11759

[Ven0m]

i disagree that fascism is getting really popular. just because they did ok in a few elections. big deal. they still have a long way to go before they have any kind of real influence.

[CalmlikeaBomb]

It is of my thought that people on the left tend to be more academic and not reactionary as most of the right tend to be. Thus it's easier to get stupid people to do something, like older Americans to vote to cut social security. Than it is to get most of the left to agree on a single subject.

I think if the left was as unified as the right is then it would be much hard for fascist to get into power.

[Rafiq]

I think the west will fall into fascism but out of that a communist uprising will happen.

This is the least likely scenario - what a childish thing to say.

[Ele'ill]

I don't think anything will change for 'the better'. I think everything will get worse.

[Sinister Intents]

I don't think anything will change for 'the better'. I think everything will get worse.

I can't help but agree comrade, things just seem worse everyday. In NY the police are getting drones, and specifically in my area there exists controversy over the police having a thing that allows them to see all of your cellphone information, to get into laptops, and other shit related to this. I hate the USA.

[Rafiq]

The path toward decadence is indeed natural in our current situation. Any bright future we could ever hope for is one that we have to actively will.

[Max]

In the US, the Fascists are growing. They call themselves the Tea party, and they claim to fight for freedom. They hate anyone who is not a white protestant male, and are very intolerant. And, the left has no response. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh constantly spew Fascist crap, yet there are no large leftist organizations to fight against these nut jobs. The radical left has to become more assertive and speak up, that is how we will counter the Fascists.

[MarcusJuniusBrutus]

"Where do you think we are heading"

I'll put it this way: we're riding in a hand-basket.

[exeexe]

When the fascists tried to take control of Barcelona on july 17 1936 the organized anarchists smashed them to pieces and implemented socialism and communism in the region where it was needed.

This can happen again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_coup_of_July_1936

[Thirsty Crow]

When the fascists tried to take control of Barcelona on july 17 1936 the organized anarchists smashed them to pieces and implemented socialism and communism in the region where it was needed.

This can happen again!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_coup_of_July_1936
Watch out, socialism in one region (where needed) on the agenda.

I don't think for a moment that the recent euro election results can be used to conclude that the path towards fascism is open. I for one don't think it is at all.

[Sea]

No fucking way. No way in hell am I going to re-live the goddamn 20th century. If the far right rises let's just hope they'll be mutually genocidal. Either we get our shit together, or everyone on this continent, and hopefully everyone in North and South America too, gets sent to the death camps. Everyone.

[exeexe]

Watch out, socialism in one region (where needed) on the agenda.

I don't think for a moment that the recent euro election results can be used to conclude that the path towards fascism is open. I for one don't think it is at all.
Of course the path to fascism is not open as it also not were in Barcelona. Its just that a part of the mainstream has taken a step to the right. Now it wont take long before a part of the rest of the mainstream will take a step to the left.

And then after that the mainstream will be so small that it cant play any significant role anymore.

Just wait and see. Just wait for the collision.

[exeexe]

No fucking way. No way in hell am I going to re-live the goddamn 20th century. If the far right rises let's just hope they'll be mutually genocidal. Either we get our shit together, or everyone on this continent, and hopefully everyone in North and South America too, gets sent to the death camps. Everyone.
Of course we have to go through the 20th century again. Since the state communists ruined the whole thing we had to restart the whole thing and start from scratch. And its because of the state communists that you are not free today rofl.