Militancy vs Pacifism

[Kez]

This thread is intended as platform to debate alternative methods of protesting in the streets

The pro's and Con's of pacifism and militancy

Surely if there was a world wide militant revolution, no one would complain of violence

A call to arms, while we sit infront of these tools of propaganda, our action is needed

comrade kamo

www.yfrc.org.uk

[RedCeltic]

This is one of a few poster's I've been putting up since Sept. 11... but it applies to your case as well....

http://stevenlyons.com/peace/warisnot.jpg

[Kez]

http://www.unamerican.com/propgnda/index.htm

TOP PLACE FOR ANTI YANKEE POSTERS

spread the word

comrade kamo

[RedCeltic]

hey there's some good posters there thanks comrade!

[Dreadnaht1]

In this case I'll go against militarism and war (ugh...) for once and say that war in the middle east caused by the USA is definetly not needed. The escalating violence between Israel and just about every other surrounding nation does not need to become more complicated. USA is only making things worse in an already shitty situation so I say to U$A: Stop dropping your shitty assed bombs on innocent people and just fucking look at what your doing for once! I would, however, by rather happy if 2000 or so US soldiers got nuked by Iraq. Heh, that'd teach 'em. Allthough accidentally bombing US troops in Afghanistan was damn funny. And then the families of the soldiers blamed the Taliban! Hahahahaha oh this nation is sad sad sad.

Comrade Dread

[Moskitto]

someone I know made an excellent anti vietnam war poster but It can be changed so it's anti any war easily.

[SBR]

I believe that militancy has a place in a revolution . Its true use should be to help defeat all those who wish to go against the will of the people . I believe in a revolution by all people and if people are scared to join or wish to run away , then no animosity should be held against them . Yes , protest , methods of shutting down a whole country , send emmissaries to the UN and getting total media attention are very important . But there will come a time when battle must be made , for like there are people in the Muslim world who think UBL is innocent , there are Americans who beleive their nation can do no wrong . And in fact , americans are rapidly becoming that which is the greatest goal of capitalism , total self interest . So battle is enevitable and it shall be agaisnt the whole of the western military for they are trained to be automatons , I should know my father is a soldier for America . Ill probably disapear for saying such things , as we all have a file at the CIA , seeing as how the FBI "Carnavore" is collecting our information . The US government already rules the world , that is the basic fact . It does not need to liquidate all the borders and tell everyone they're under their rule because that would be pointless . I know no one wants to fight a war for they are so horrible and costly . But at the same time they are beautiful for those who do not wish to suffer and be opressed shall rise up and finnaly stop these thounsands of years of blood shed . For the world has not changed much since the dawn of humanity . Battle shall come but right now we should be uniting , prepareing , and fighting in a peaceful way in those places that need it most . And when the banner rises for war , those soldiers who beleived their American ideals are the strongest in this world , shall see the true ideals and strength of the people !!! And they shall be humbled , as their masters will be .

[Kez]

I think that the reason some people (me) are attracted to militancy is the romantic atmosphere surrounding it, such as the storming of the winter palace in the revolution in russia, people (me) get the idea that this can be done now, and here, and maybe it can, just like in argentina.

UNITE&FIGHT
comrade kamo

[Guest]

Thank you for revealing your psychosis to us Kamo.

[RedCeltic]

Kamo.... most people who support militancy aren't thinking about the human aspect of war. I had once thought that I would spend my life in the Navy. What I had envisioned was a romantic life on the high seas. While it was a good life experience for me... after spending four years in the Navy, I knew it wasn't the life for me.

It's easy for some to fall into the trap of how society makes war and volence aceptable and romantic. If you lived in Germany in the 1930's would you be all cought up in the furvor of going out to fight for the Fatherland? or would you be able to distance yourself from all that... take a look at what's going on around you and say, "What the fuck are these maniacs doing?!"

[Freiheit]

almost every revolution includes violence. but that is the problem why so many of them failed.
the problem of violent revolutions (putch, coup d'etat) is the following:

YOU CANNOT CONVINCE HUMAN BEINGS WITH VIOLENCE. THEY ONLY WAY TO THEIR HEARTS (to show them the advantage of socialism) IS THROUGH DISCUSSION AND TALK.

we have to explain.
we mustnt force the ppl to do or believe something. only because you overthrew the government with power. that doesnt mean that the majority supports you. you cant be sure. probably lots of ppl will stay in their houses and do nothing. and the ppl on street just hate the government but are not socialists.

i hope you see my point.

[Kez]

But violence CAN convince my friend.
Lets say the workers of a nike factory in indonesia, kill the manager and the bastards making their life hell, and turn it into a co-op, surely the people will give their backing.
And the Russian Revolution, everyone was for that, there was a minority who were against it, and it wasnt because they would be presecuted or any shit like that.
If the cause is right and just, it doesnt matter if there is violence.

cormade kamo

[Freiheit]

in the russian revolution, the majortiy was against the aristocraty but not pro lenin.

i dont get your example.

if you threat someone with violence if he doesnt believe what you say, he will it never really believe.

[CommieBastard]

Violence cannot be used against someone to convince them of something.
However, when someone isnt at the suffering end of violence they may be convinced by it. This will usually be when times are hard, and people are looking for radical alternatives and wished something active was done.
That is how revolutions get their support...

[Freiheit]

the third person who sees the violence is never really
convinced, because he is just afraid of being the next.

[CommieBastard]

they're not afraid of being the next when they agree with the person having carried out the violence, and then join in the violence.
Why do you think the cuban revolution worked? the people there knew who exactly was their enemy and who was their friend.
They joined with their liberators, because they knew they would never be the target of the violence.

And anyway, capitalism is a form of violence in my opinion, it harms the people. If the people know where their hurt comes from, then they will readily be convinced to join the fight.

[Kez]

By justifying violence, u can convince

comrade kamo

[Freiheit]

the cuban revolution worked, because a totalitarian dictatorship was installed, and there is only a little active opposition because they get to jail.

today's cuba is better than before the revolution.
but it still sucks.

[CommieBastard]

It's also better than any other country in the world. Tho i do agree it does suck in many aspects.

[Freiheit]

i prefer canada. i like it better than cuba. but canada is not perfect as well.

the ideas in cuba are not bad though. but the pratice sucks.

[I Will Deny You]

I agree. The Cubans just aren't doing it right. There are a whole bunch of places I'd rather be than Cuba, although it's way too cold around here. If Fidel got his act together I'd be on the first flight down.