Did Engles advocate supporting Right Wing parties?

[LovingCommie]

Under the freedom of trade the whole severity of the laws of political economy will be applied to the working classes. Is that to say that we are against Free Trade? No, we are for Free Trade, because by Free Trade all economical laws, with their most astounding contradictions, will act upon a larger scale, upon a greater extent of territory, upon the territory of the whole earth; and because from the uniting of all these contradictions into a single group, where they stand face to face, will result the struggle which will itself eventuate in the emancipation of the proletarians.


This was written by Engles in his letter "To Free Trade Congress at Brussels". Was he saying support Right Wing ideology in order to make conditions so bad that the proletariats will be forced to revolt? This sounds absolutely absurd to me.

[Red Economist]

would need more context, but yes I think so. Marx supported Free trade for this reason, but this is the first time I've heard Engels supporting it too. This is the "the worse, the better" line in Communism (the worse the social conditions, the better the chances of social revolution). It's a really nasty application of dialectical reasoning.

[LovingCommie]

I'm wondering though, is Marx and Engels supported the market because it wasn't nearly as developed as it is now. In modern times the global market has engulfed every nation on the planet, and the condition for revolution exists for every worker across the globe. In Marx and Engel's times the market was spreading throughout the globe through european imperialism so it made more sense to support free trade back then. I don't believe there is any reason today to support Right Wing ideology.

[Tim Cornelis]

would need more context, but yes I think so. Marx supported Free trade for this reason, but this is the first time I've heard Engels supporting it too. This is the "the worse, the better" line in Communism (the worse the social conditions, the better the chances of social revolution). It's a really nasty application of dialectical reasoning.

No, Engels does not assume free trade is "worse", he assumes it accelerates socialisation of labour globally.

[Zukunftsmusik]

No, Engels does not assume free trade is "worse", he assumes it accelerates socialisation of labour globally.

Yeah, it's not because it would get worse and thus "accelerate" working class action, the argument is that it would be a step towards socialisation on a global scale, or make such a step easier. One could argue how correct he was, of course, but it's not simply an accelerationist view in the sense OP asks ("After Hitler, us!").

[exeexe]

Did Engles advocate supporting Right Wing parties?No he advocated free trade. Name me a left wing party that wants to limit trade.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Name me a left wing party that wants to limit trade.

Quite a few, I'd suppose.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Marx wrote this about free trade: "But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favour of free trade."

Marx and Engels no doubt saw the globalisation of trade as a progressive thing, expanding production all across the world and in turn expanding the proletariat as well.

[ComradeOm]

Quite a few, I'd suppose.But not then. Projecting current divisions back in history isn't particularly helpful. For example, the drive to abolish the Corn Laws in Britain was led by the Liberals while in Germany it was the Right that rallied behind Bismarck's protectionism. In both cases the opposition to free-trade was led by landowning agricultural interests.

[Zukunftsmusik]

But not then. Projecting current divisions back in history isn't particularly helpful. For example, the drive to abolish the Corn Laws in Britain was led by the Liberals while in Germany it was the Right that rallied behind Bismarck's protectionism. In both cases the opposition to free-trade was led by landowning agricultural interests.

Of course, this is obvious. The post I answered to, however, asked in present tense.

[exeexe]

Quite a few, I'd suppose.I dont beleive that

[Tim Cornelis]

I dont beleive that

Wa'? How is that not plausible? I thought it was pretty common knowledge leftist parties tend to oppose free trade. The Zapatistas event went to war when the free trade agreement of North America was signed.

Poster by Dutch Socialist Party saying: 'Free trade agreement? Strangle agreement.'

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/p403x403/10341530_10152402139292528_5830635344606129482_n.j pg

[consuming negativity]

Engels advocated free trade because it was better than literal serfdom. He wanted society to progress and saw one system as having more potential than the other to progress humanity. And I think he chose right - fuck serfdom.

[Left Voice]

Wa'? How is that not plausible? I thought it was pretty common knowledge leftist parties tend to oppose free trade. The Zapatistas event went to war when the free trade agreement of North America was signed.

Poster by Dutch Socialist Party saying: 'Free trade agreement? Strangle agreement.'

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/p403x403/10341530_10152402139292528_5830635344606129482_n.j pg


The Japan Communist Party (which has a sizeable majority of the vote at a local level in many areas, significantly Kyoto and other regions of Kansai) base much of their popularity on their opposition to the TPP and steadfast support of the rice farmers pushing for protectionist policies and extreme rice tariffs. You can't walk 500 metres without stumbling across a Japan Communist Party poster opposing the TPP.

[exeexe]

Wa'? How is that not plausible? I thought it was pretty common knowledge leftist parties tend to oppose free trade. The Zapatistas event went to war when the free trade agreement of North America was signed.


So now the Zapatistas is suddenly a political party? I think you are offending the Zapatistas here rofl

At the dutch poster: The arrangement between USA and EU is not about free trade. Its about exclusive trade of course they will call it free trade because then everyone will believe its good. They make an agreement to trade but in doing so they exclude others from trading with them.

[Five Year Plan]

This was written by Engles in his letter "To Free Trade Congress at Brussels". Was he saying support Right Wing ideology in order to make conditions so bad that the proletariats will be forced to revolt? This sounds absolutely absurd to me.

The quote was Engels railing against people who wanted to contain capitalism and its borders at a time when other pre-capitalist modes of production still predominated throughout much of the world. As other posters have already pointed out, this quote needs to be viewed in the context in which it was written, not mistaken for an argument for "free trade" in the abstract. It's an argument for capitalism as a progressive mode of production in relation to tributary agriculture and feudalism.

[Thirsty Crow]

This was written by Engles in his letter "To Free Trade Congress at Brussels". Was he saying support Right Wing ideology in order to make conditions so bad that the proletariats will be forced to revolt? This sounds absolutely absurd to me.
This is one interpretation, but another one would focus on free trade as conducive to the hastening of the development of productive forces - and this development is necessary as a material infrastructure for communist social relations.

[Five Year Plan]

"But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I favor Free Trade." Speech on the Question of Free Trade Delivered to the Democratic Association of Brussels at Its Public Meeting, 9 January 1848.

[Dave B]

Marx-Engels Works 1888
On the Question of Free Trade
Preface by Frederick Engels for the 1888 English edition pamphlet




http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1888/free-trade/