PhoenixAsh
21st May 2014, 23:36
Consider the following conversation. And give your opinion. I need this to check my own opinion and to see if the course of action, which...depending if I am right has the potential of getting somebody into serious work related trouble with a potential job loss, is reasonable.
Persons involved.
"X": Staff employee who assumes (but doesn't actually have one on paper) a position of power over other employees. X has no real position of authority. However since he is part of staff and since he is directly involved with the campaigns and is the only one able to build them and runs Back Office he deals with employees directly and is able to have a perceived leadership position.
"A": New colleague who works here for a month. She is trustworthy.
Situation.
When A started working for our campaigns on her first day she received a FB request from X. He had provided her initial project training the day before. She thought nothing off it and accepted his request. She then received the following conversation which I am going to paraphrase because I have to do it from memory but I have read the conversation:
19:30 two hours after work day ends.
X: Hi, how was your first day?
A: It was fine. It was confusing at first but as soon as I started in the phone it felt really enjoyable. I made my first two sales and everybody was super nice and enthusiastic.
X: Did you like my training? Was it useful?
A: It was a whole lot of information and I don't think it is possible to have it sink in in just one day. But I really feel you provided a very good foundation.
X: Well this is important and I am really proud of you that you managed to make two sales on your first day.
A: Thank you!
X: It is important you know that if you have any questions you can always come to me. I am there for you because I don't want to lose you. Both professionally and because I like you personally.
A: I will. Thank you.
X: Lets agree that we are best buds at work from now on and I have your back if you have mine so you don't need to feel afraid to come to me with anything you want or need. Not even outside work. Here is my private number so you can reach me
A: Ok. I think I will manage and we have a really nice coach and DM who assists us on the work floor. Today I scored two sales and I think I will shoot for three tomorrow. It is a lot to remember but I think I just have to learn by doing and asking my direct colleagues.
X: So ok sweetie. I'll see you tomorrow. I am sure you will make me proud.
>>> The next day he came onto the work floor and apparently at one point during a break they were standing together in a group and he suddenly came up beside her and put his arm around her shoulder to ask if she was doing ok.
Secone evening. Again after work hours:
X: Hi! How was your second work day? I saw you managed to score three sales today!! w00t
A: It was fine. Yes I did. Thank you.
X: Do you have any plans for tonight?
A: Yes.
X: Ok.
Third day Again after work hours:
X: Hi honey. Another great day I saw! I am home alone.
A: (no reply)
X: Do you have any plans?
A: (no reply)
Fourth and fifth day....he also sent her messages.
After that she went on holiday for a week. Then after a while he stopped messaging. She never replied. He is currently ignoring her completely. He won't talk to her even when necessary, apparently, and she needs to get tender calculations through a colleague.
I need your assessment of the conversation.
After that. Read the following:
I have heard this before from female employees. Three times actually. None of these were brought to me in a serious way. But they sparked my interest.
The first one was a colleague B who is friends with his girlfriend who told me she met X in a supermarket outside of work and he invited her to come over for drinks one time...but the thing that struck me was his girlfriend was in hospital that week and X and B only knew each other from work. She told me this inside a larger conversation and didn't pay specific attention to it. So I thought nothing really bad of it. Just that it triggered a little bell.
Second was from a colleague C who I personally know outside work for two months now and talk to on the phone frequently. We are really good friends and I helped her with some handy work to her apartment after she stayed late to help me finish some work....which is how we became friends. She worked with the company before and knows X. When I helped her with her apartment she actually received some texts from X asking what she was doing and asking her to come over for drinks with a ";)" - smiley and a follow up message saying his girlfriend wasn't at home. Since I thought C and X were close and she said she wasn't bothered by it and even after asked specifically said she didn't see it as bothersome. She later (last Monday) told me she wasn't that close and actually did see it as bothersome.
Then yesterday I heard another women D say she used to have whatsapp conversations with X a year ago outside work. That they were fun and friendly at first but that they got a little weird and that she then told him he wasn't allowed to app her again and she blocked him. She didn't want to say what actually happened. Just that after she said he couldn't app her or call her again that he never spoke another word again. I know this because he always has it out for her (I work here for three months) and is always looking for ways to put her in a negative light and I asked her if there was perhaps a previous fall out between the two.
And today I heard and read the above story.
My take:
I think this crosses a line.
Unfortunately this doesn't cross the line in such an aggravating way that he can't argue that he meant well, he was misunderstood, and misinterpreted. He is a smooth talker and has plenty of options to argue his way out of every of the apps making them appear innocent and the consequences of serious lack of social skills. (which by the way he often pretends he doesn't have. I say pretend because he was top sales and definitely knows social conventions and communication)
The guy is a lot of things. Vindictive, manipulative, power hungry ad hierarchical. But he can be really nice, really sensitive and really give people (women mostly) the sense that he really cares.
I think however this has written predator all over it. Given the fact that I heard these stories frequently about him....and from behavior I observed and now, after hearing this, interpret in a new context...I think he is looking how far he can go. Measuring the waters (I don't know if that is an accurate translation of the Dutch expression) to see how far he can go.
I think this in combination with his personality (which believe me is very accurate) creates a very potentially dangerous situation.
The thing is. He is hard to get rid of because he has once managed to save the CEO's ass from a huge problem (which X got him into in the first place...but nobody can prove that) and now has his ear. Which is also why he still works here. So this will be a difficulty.
Another and more important issue is that person A doesn't want to take steps because she is afraid he will start to stalk her. She unfortunately has previous experiences elsewhere that didn't end well for her after she reported it. I am not sure but I think that situation went a little further than just messages. A is trustworthy. She let me read the messages. Actually gave a tremendous emotional response when I asked her how she thought X in respect to his Back Office duties could improve...which brought us to this conversation. She found it very intrusive to such an extend that she wanted to quit, but after her holiday decided to give it another chance since he had stopped messaging. She felt her personal space was violated by him touching her. And she felt unsure and unsafe from people in leadership. She also observed him being overly flirtatious with other women and felt creeped out by him.
I really want to assure you that this person is NOT somebody who is prone to dramatizing or gossip. She is a very uplifting and upbeat and positive person. Creative and artistic and truthful and honest. I was actually taken aback and completely off guard by the immediate mood switch when X came up in conversation. Which left a profound impression on me since I think this really hit her hard because of prior experiences to which she referred but didn't clarify (and I didn't ask since it was obvious they weren't good and she didn't feel the need to expand on them).
I have promised her that I won't take steps without first discussing the steps I want to take with her, the possible consequences of these steps and asking her permission. Since I think it is important that people trust me enough to come to speak to me with sensitive issues I have also promised her to not take any initiative without her prior consent unless the situation was serious and urgent enough to negate that promise.
The step I did take was, with her consent, ask for informal and off the record advice from our HR department and ask for a guide line being communicated with every Delivery Manager and Team Leader including the number and contact information of the confidentiality person on our intranet employee information page...since it is nice that the can come to me...but what if I am knowingly or unknowingly a problem? They need somebody to go to. I also am petitioning our 2nd CEO to take this issue up in the basic entry training for new employees. I also did this to cover my own ass when and if this blows up and I am not the one who kept it under the lid for not wanting to violate somebodies trust (A's trust).
In the mean time A got my number and the number of the TL for if this happens again.
Other actions I have taken is to transfer X off the direct work floor. This was already a plan to integrate him with another department. But this has been sped up to immediately.
I can't take this up personally with X. Basically because I know the guy and I know there is a huge risk of him doing something stupid like messaging and calling the person he thinks is responsible.
I do need to do something here, because I feel there is a risk (well....certainty) of repetition. Plus I think there is a risk of him actually going way too far with somebody at one point.
Official steps I can take will result in him getting fired.
So...help and advice is needed and really appreciated.
* Am I doing the right thing towards A?
* Am I choosing the right course of action if I just leave it here and respect A's wishes?
* Should I take additional steps and discuss these with A?
Persons involved.
"X": Staff employee who assumes (but doesn't actually have one on paper) a position of power over other employees. X has no real position of authority. However since he is part of staff and since he is directly involved with the campaigns and is the only one able to build them and runs Back Office he deals with employees directly and is able to have a perceived leadership position.
"A": New colleague who works here for a month. She is trustworthy.
Situation.
When A started working for our campaigns on her first day she received a FB request from X. He had provided her initial project training the day before. She thought nothing off it and accepted his request. She then received the following conversation which I am going to paraphrase because I have to do it from memory but I have read the conversation:
19:30 two hours after work day ends.
X: Hi, how was your first day?
A: It was fine. It was confusing at first but as soon as I started in the phone it felt really enjoyable. I made my first two sales and everybody was super nice and enthusiastic.
X: Did you like my training? Was it useful?
A: It was a whole lot of information and I don't think it is possible to have it sink in in just one day. But I really feel you provided a very good foundation.
X: Well this is important and I am really proud of you that you managed to make two sales on your first day.
A: Thank you!
X: It is important you know that if you have any questions you can always come to me. I am there for you because I don't want to lose you. Both professionally and because I like you personally.
A: I will. Thank you.
X: Lets agree that we are best buds at work from now on and I have your back if you have mine so you don't need to feel afraid to come to me with anything you want or need. Not even outside work. Here is my private number so you can reach me
A: Ok. I think I will manage and we have a really nice coach and DM who assists us on the work floor. Today I scored two sales and I think I will shoot for three tomorrow. It is a lot to remember but I think I just have to learn by doing and asking my direct colleagues.
X: So ok sweetie. I'll see you tomorrow. I am sure you will make me proud.
>>> The next day he came onto the work floor and apparently at one point during a break they were standing together in a group and he suddenly came up beside her and put his arm around her shoulder to ask if she was doing ok.
Secone evening. Again after work hours:
X: Hi! How was your second work day? I saw you managed to score three sales today!! w00t
A: It was fine. Yes I did. Thank you.
X: Do you have any plans for tonight?
A: Yes.
X: Ok.
Third day Again after work hours:
X: Hi honey. Another great day I saw! I am home alone.
A: (no reply)
X: Do you have any plans?
A: (no reply)
Fourth and fifth day....he also sent her messages.
After that she went on holiday for a week. Then after a while he stopped messaging. She never replied. He is currently ignoring her completely. He won't talk to her even when necessary, apparently, and she needs to get tender calculations through a colleague.
I need your assessment of the conversation.
After that. Read the following:
I have heard this before from female employees. Three times actually. None of these were brought to me in a serious way. But they sparked my interest.
The first one was a colleague B who is friends with his girlfriend who told me she met X in a supermarket outside of work and he invited her to come over for drinks one time...but the thing that struck me was his girlfriend was in hospital that week and X and B only knew each other from work. She told me this inside a larger conversation and didn't pay specific attention to it. So I thought nothing really bad of it. Just that it triggered a little bell.
Second was from a colleague C who I personally know outside work for two months now and talk to on the phone frequently. We are really good friends and I helped her with some handy work to her apartment after she stayed late to help me finish some work....which is how we became friends. She worked with the company before and knows X. When I helped her with her apartment she actually received some texts from X asking what she was doing and asking her to come over for drinks with a ";)" - smiley and a follow up message saying his girlfriend wasn't at home. Since I thought C and X were close and she said she wasn't bothered by it and even after asked specifically said she didn't see it as bothersome. She later (last Monday) told me she wasn't that close and actually did see it as bothersome.
Then yesterday I heard another women D say she used to have whatsapp conversations with X a year ago outside work. That they were fun and friendly at first but that they got a little weird and that she then told him he wasn't allowed to app her again and she blocked him. She didn't want to say what actually happened. Just that after she said he couldn't app her or call her again that he never spoke another word again. I know this because he always has it out for her (I work here for three months) and is always looking for ways to put her in a negative light and I asked her if there was perhaps a previous fall out between the two.
And today I heard and read the above story.
My take:
I think this crosses a line.
Unfortunately this doesn't cross the line in such an aggravating way that he can't argue that he meant well, he was misunderstood, and misinterpreted. He is a smooth talker and has plenty of options to argue his way out of every of the apps making them appear innocent and the consequences of serious lack of social skills. (which by the way he often pretends he doesn't have. I say pretend because he was top sales and definitely knows social conventions and communication)
The guy is a lot of things. Vindictive, manipulative, power hungry ad hierarchical. But he can be really nice, really sensitive and really give people (women mostly) the sense that he really cares.
I think however this has written predator all over it. Given the fact that I heard these stories frequently about him....and from behavior I observed and now, after hearing this, interpret in a new context...I think he is looking how far he can go. Measuring the waters (I don't know if that is an accurate translation of the Dutch expression) to see how far he can go.
I think this in combination with his personality (which believe me is very accurate) creates a very potentially dangerous situation.
The thing is. He is hard to get rid of because he has once managed to save the CEO's ass from a huge problem (which X got him into in the first place...but nobody can prove that) and now has his ear. Which is also why he still works here. So this will be a difficulty.
Another and more important issue is that person A doesn't want to take steps because she is afraid he will start to stalk her. She unfortunately has previous experiences elsewhere that didn't end well for her after she reported it. I am not sure but I think that situation went a little further than just messages. A is trustworthy. She let me read the messages. Actually gave a tremendous emotional response when I asked her how she thought X in respect to his Back Office duties could improve...which brought us to this conversation. She found it very intrusive to such an extend that she wanted to quit, but after her holiday decided to give it another chance since he had stopped messaging. She felt her personal space was violated by him touching her. And she felt unsure and unsafe from people in leadership. She also observed him being overly flirtatious with other women and felt creeped out by him.
I really want to assure you that this person is NOT somebody who is prone to dramatizing or gossip. She is a very uplifting and upbeat and positive person. Creative and artistic and truthful and honest. I was actually taken aback and completely off guard by the immediate mood switch when X came up in conversation. Which left a profound impression on me since I think this really hit her hard because of prior experiences to which she referred but didn't clarify (and I didn't ask since it was obvious they weren't good and she didn't feel the need to expand on them).
I have promised her that I won't take steps without first discussing the steps I want to take with her, the possible consequences of these steps and asking her permission. Since I think it is important that people trust me enough to come to speak to me with sensitive issues I have also promised her to not take any initiative without her prior consent unless the situation was serious and urgent enough to negate that promise.
The step I did take was, with her consent, ask for informal and off the record advice from our HR department and ask for a guide line being communicated with every Delivery Manager and Team Leader including the number and contact information of the confidentiality person on our intranet employee information page...since it is nice that the can come to me...but what if I am knowingly or unknowingly a problem? They need somebody to go to. I also am petitioning our 2nd CEO to take this issue up in the basic entry training for new employees. I also did this to cover my own ass when and if this blows up and I am not the one who kept it under the lid for not wanting to violate somebodies trust (A's trust).
In the mean time A got my number and the number of the TL for if this happens again.
Other actions I have taken is to transfer X off the direct work floor. This was already a plan to integrate him with another department. But this has been sped up to immediately.
I can't take this up personally with X. Basically because I know the guy and I know there is a huge risk of him doing something stupid like messaging and calling the person he thinks is responsible.
I do need to do something here, because I feel there is a risk (well....certainty) of repetition. Plus I think there is a risk of him actually going way too far with somebody at one point.
Official steps I can take will result in him getting fired.
So...help and advice is needed and really appreciated.
* Am I doing the right thing towards A?
* Am I choosing the right course of action if I just leave it here and respect A's wishes?
* Should I take additional steps and discuss these with A?