Anyone into bodybuilding and the like?

[Tim Cornelis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. After over a year of a severe case of the fuckarounditis (http://www.leangains.com/2011/09/fuckarounditis.html)I've recently been getting more serious with diet, training consistently (for the first time).
Is there anyone who's into bodybuilding or powerlifting here ?

[PhoenixAsh]

yup. need help getting started?

[RA89]

Yep. Not built anything remarkably impressive yet but I've made some gains.

[Max]

Yes, I have been lifting now for over a year.

[Anarcho-Crackhead]

Just eat the right foods, and work out about 3-4 times a week.
For some reason healthy foods (I.e. Eggs, protein shakes) make me a bit overzealous at times, but yeah it's worth it.

[Tim Cornelis]

Well, I'm thinking of changing my workout routine.

I'm currently doing this (monday-wednesday-friday), fourth week now (3-4 sets, 8-12 reps for all).

Squat
Bench Press
Bent over Row
Bicep curls

Deadlift
Shoulder press
Dumbell Incline Bench
Plate raises

Squat
Bench press
Lateral raise
Pull ups

But... I don't ever have muscle pains (ik weet niet of spierpijn zo vertaald kan worden) the next day, so I'm thinking there's too few exercises in this routine. Any comments?

[Naroc]

Are you sure you're using enough weights? If you want to gain muscles you don't need that much excersises, but the ones you do should be kinda heavy.

[Tim Cornelis]

Are you sure you're using enough weights? If you want to gain muscles you don't need that much excersises, but the ones you do should be kinda heavy.

Well I'm not always pushing to failure, but sometimes I am in the last set. So I am at the top of my abilities when doing these exercises I suppose. But the day after I don't feel anything.

[Naroc]

pushing to failure
That's what i did for a while, and i would be lying if i said it isn't actually effective (with a good diet of course), but the consequences for your everyday-life are a bit tough :grin:
It's not necessary at all to push until your muscles collapse, but at least one should feel that he's excersising
and not playing with barbie dolls :laugh:

[RA89]

Well, I'm thinking of changing my workout routine.

I'm currently doing this (monday-wednesday-friday), fourth week now (3-4 sets, 8-12 reps for all).

Squat
Bench Press
Bent over Row
Bicep curls

Deadlift
Shoulder press
Dumbell Incline Bench
Plate raises

Squat
Bench press
Lateral raise
Pull ups

But... I don't ever have muscle pains (ik weet niet of spierpijn zo vertaald kan worden) the next day, so I'm thinking there's too few exercises in this routine. Any comments?

That's not a bad routine at all. Full of good compound moves.

Don't worry if you're not sore, muscle soreness is not an indication of whether you've made strength/muscle gains. As you get used to training regularly your body will adapt and not get anywhere near as sore as it used to.

Only thing I would change is your rep range, 5-8 is optimal for natural lifters imo (for the compound moves) + I'd add in some rear delt work to prevent any imbalances e.g. rear delt flies. Everything else is fine.

[Fegelnator]

Training 3 times a week. I try to eat a lot and take my protein shakes afterwards.

I've got 2 split schedules:

Leg Press
Squat
Some exercise for the hamstrings :D
pull ups
front pull down
front row
biceps curl (with dumbells)
biceps curl (with rope)
deadlifts.


Other schedule:

chest press
bench press
incline press
front raise
side raise
shrugs
something we call dipping
triceps push down
aaaaaaaaaaaaabs :D.

Really destroys me.

[PhoenixAsh]

Whats your BW and your weight per exercise?

[PhoenixAsh]

Don't worry if you're not sore, muscle soreness is not an indication of whether you've made strength/muscle gains. As you get used to training regularly your body will adapt and not get anywhere near as sore as it used to.


It can (but doesn't have to be!) be an indicator of higher natural estrogen levels which makes people more resistant to delayed onset muscle soreness (which you should experience to some extend 24-48 hours after training) and which will delay inflamation induced catabolism which is a precursor for the anabolic phase....and can therefore be a reason for slower growth and progression.

In which case you should decrease your rep count to 5-8 with an increased weight stack. Plus add an additional exercise per day.

But it is important to know the reason why he chose this specific routine.


Personal advice:

Every day finish with alternating: weighted pull ups (pull in your stomache) or weighted strict form dips (shoulder blades together).

I would drop one Chest exercise in the schedule

Add farmers walk....which is freaking awesome if done right.

Thinking about changing deadlifts for deep deadlifts...

So:

Squat legs
BOR upper back/ erector
Bench barbell (perhaps alternating incline, flat) chest/front delts/triceps
Weighted pull ups rear delts/lats (lower back)/biceps

Deep Deads (back /traps/ etc + legs!!)
Press Barbell (shoulders / upper back)
Farmers walk (40-50% BW....muscles you didn't know you had IF done right.)
Weighted dips triceps / chest...o yeah

Squats
Benchpress dumbbell Stabilizer muscles
Weighted pull ups
Good mornings (quads / lower back)
Lateral raises (if you really really want to ;) )


In there I would do some calf exercises and additional exercises for weak and lacking muscle parts....chose one per exercise day.....maybe some stomach exercises as a warm up.

[Tim Cornelis]

It can (but doesn't have to be!) be an indicator of higher natural estrogen levels which makes people more resistant to delayed onset muscle soreness (which you should experience to some extend 24-48 hours after training) and which will delay inflamation induced catabolism which is a precursor for the anabolic phase....and can therefore be a reason for slower growth and progression.

Well I trained yesterday, basically no muscle soreness now. With flexing and stretching everything I only felt a tiny little bit of muscle soreness my left upper leg. I used to have muscle soreness more, I'm sure if that is an indication of (not having )higher natural estrogen levels. But I'm not sure what you mean with the catabolism and anabolic phase. Shouldn't that mean that if one delays his post-workout meal it would also correct this?


In which case you should decrease your rep count to 5-8 with an increased weight stack. Plus add an additional exercise per day.

What does that do in relation to the "inflamation induced catabolism which is a precursor for the anabolic phase....and can therefore be a reason for slower growth and progression."?


But it is important to know the reason why he chose this specific routine.

I read this article: http://www.leangains.com/2011/09/fuckarounditis.html

Found it compelling and sought a routine that was similar to the example provided.



Whats your BW and your weight per exercise?

I've only started logging stuff sunday.

Squat (warmup set; 1st set: 10 reps, 30 kg; 2nd rep: 8 reps, 35 kg; 3rd set: 10 reps, 30 kg weight plates total)
Bench Press (warmup set; 3 sets, 10 reps, 20 kg weight plates total)
Bent over Row (3 sets 10 reps, 10 kg and 15 kg weight plates total)
Bicep curls (not logged, 8 kg dumbells)
not sure what the weight of the barbell is, I suppose it doesn't matter as long as I consistently track weight one way.

I don't have a scale at home, there's one at the gym, but I keep forgetting to us it. Now that I'm logging shit I should remember it next time. I use 60-70 kg into account for diet purposes.

[PhoenixAsh]

And you haven't trained before this routine?

Extensive reply coming later, but that last question is important.

[Tim Cornelis]

And you haven't trained before this routine?

Extensive reply coming later, but that last question is important.

yes I have, started in January 2013, but without routine, first month or so I didn't even know about sets and reps, worked out with shitty diet, worked out randomly and inconsistently, and sometimes skipped more than a week. Also, shitty workouts, no compound movements, only machines, then later some dumbells as well. A few months or so before I started with this routine (fourth week now) I started doing some compound movements gradually.

[PhoenixAsh]

Well I trained yesterday, basically no muscle soreness now. With flexing and stretching everything I only felt a tiny little bit of muscle soreness my left upper leg. I used to have muscle soreness more, I'm sure if that is an indication of (not having )higher natural estrogen levels. But I'm not sure what you mean with the catabolism and anabolic phase. Shouldn't that mean that if one delays his post-workout meal it would also correct this?

What does that do in relation to the "inflamation induced catabolism which is a precursor for the anabolic phase....and can therefore be a reason for slower growth and progression."?


There is a difference between being sore and muscle pains. If you never had muscle soreness that could have been an indicator of higher natural estrogen levels. But if you experienced it but it got less then that is probably not the case.

Your muscles need to get damaged in order to grow. The micro-tears you create dip the muscles into inflamation which causes a slow period of catabolic state. This state is needed to prompt your body to regrow muscles.
Because your body overcompensates to prevent repetition of the damage...your muscles grow.



I read this article: http://www.leangains.com/2011/09/fuckarounditis.html

Found it compelling and sought a routine that was similar to the example provided.


You were basically doing a 3 day full body schedule....but it needed some adjustment. All in all not bad.

Two things are important.
1). Do a fullbody schedule only as long as your body has the ability to recover. If you start to regress....that's when you need a new schedule asap.
2). Diet is very everything

Full body will increase hormone levels...and ensure quick gains for beginners as long as you eat well.

Don't focus too much on small muscle groups. Pull Ups and Dips are more than enough for your arms. Especially when adding rows.



I've only started logging stuff sunday.

Keep doing that.



Squat (WS; 10x50 8x55 10x50 kg)
Bench Press (WS; 3x10x30 kg)
Bent over Row (3x30 / 35 kg)
Bicep curls ( 8 kg dumbells)


^ Found your lack of soreness issue.

Quick tip: 10x30 (first the reps, then the weight spares room; 10x10x10 means ten sets of ten reps each with 10kg each)

An Olympic barbell weights ~20 kg. Assuming your gym is half-way decent...they don't have anything less than Olympic. The bar counts ;)

Ok. You are going to change your amount of sets :sneaky:

Either do a 5x5 or a 4x8 or 4x10 schedule. But 3 sets on compound....not going to fly unless you seriously stack some more weight on there. 3x8 is nice for supporting muscles an supporting exercises. However...you need the most out of the larger muscle groups.

In the beginning....try to increase weights every week until your form starts to suffer. The correct form on that weight level until you can increase again. Do not get lazy.

Do not do a pyramid jump like in your squats in a 3 set exercise. Either do everything the same or go progressive with every set. I can't explain why exactly ATM but there is a good reason not to do so unless you do lots of sets and you seriously need to finish the last set to get the movements in. I need to look it up again.



I don't have a scale at home, there's one at the gym, but I keep forgetting to us it. Now that I'm logging shit I should remember it next time. I use 60-70 kg into account for diet purposes.

Ok. Get on the scales at least every two weeks.

[Tim Cornelis]

Thanks bruh.




^ Found your lack of soreness issue.

Quick tip: 10x30 (first the reps, then the weight spares room; 10x10x10 means ten sets of ten reps each with 10kg each)

An Olympic barbell weights ~20 kg. Assuming your gym is half-way decent...they don't have anything less than Olympic. The bar counts ;)

Ok. You are going to change your amount of sets :sneaky:

Either do a 5x5 or a 4x8 or 4x10 schedule. But 3 sets on compound....not going to fly unless you seriously stack some more weight on there. 3x8 is nice for supporting muscles an supporting exercises. However...you need the most out of the larger muscle groups

Ah yeah, that makes these routines more sensical:

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/forget-steroids-5-fullbody-workouts-for-serious-gains.html

I was thinking of one of these but I thought deviation from the 3-4 x 8-12 count weird....

Now let's see if I can pack on some muscle mass.

[PhoenixAsh]

Your routine is good. You can try the routines in the link, although I find them to have too much compounds and too little farmers walk ;) Seriously...do farmers walk.

Must do exercises in any routine imo:

* Bench
* Squat
* Deads (I prefer deep deadlifts)
* Press
* Pull Ups / Chins
* Dips
* Farmers Walk
* Rows

Optional - essential isolation (meaning you probably need some work somewhere in a routine at some point):

* Calfs (BOTH seated and standing)
* Grips (onder arm)
Both these last two muscles are anaerobe muscles meaning you need high rep counts. Try 20-30 reps per set.



Optional - non essential isolation (meaning you only need to do this if a muscle is not developing well)

* Biceps
* Triceps
* Stomach



All other isolations should be worked into split routines. Dips and Pulls/Chins are more than enough for your arms in the beginning....especially since all of the other exercises extensively work your arms (yes...even squats and deads). Bench also develops biceps and brachialis although not extensively but you will notice this when you go to the BW+ weights.

[Lanfear]

Ive started going to an Olympic weightlifting class every couple of weeks which I have found beneficial as it brings a new element to the workouts

[Tim Cornelis]

Farmers walk, really weird exercise. It's also gonna look weird walking around the small gym, but apparently it's good huh. What is a set in 'farmers walk', and how many sets would you need to do, and what's a good time to do it, beginning, end?



Apparently, I'm about 74 kg -- which means I've rarely had enough protein :\



Ive started going to an Olympic weightlifting class every couple of weeks which I have found beneficial as it brings a new element to the workouts

What is your goal? Strength, size?

[Lanfear]

Ultimately size, tho I could do with getting rid of a bit of body fat at the moment. I use the Olympic lifting for explosive strength at the moment as I'm playing prop forward in rugby league tho I'm hoping it adds some size also

[PhoenixAsh]

Farmers walk, really weird exercise. It's also gonna look weird walking around the small gym, but apparently it's good huh. What is a set in 'farmers walk', and how many sets would you need to do, and what's a good time to do it, beginning, end?

I am glad you asked :)
(http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_farmers_walk_cure)


There is several ways to do this. But all revolve around: grab weight; walk around. It can't get simpler than that.

Two important notes:
1) do not slump but walk straight.
2) if you go for strength use higher weights; if you go for endurance go for longer distances.



Apparently, I'm about 74 kg -- which means I've rarely had enough protein :\

Do you like milk? Kwark & honey? If not...you need to fix that ;)

[Tim Cornelis]

I am glad you asked :)
(http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_farmers_walk_cure)


There is several ways to do this. But all revolve around: grab weight; walk around. It can't get simpler than that.

Two important notes:
1) do not slump but walk straight.
2) if you go for strength use higher weights; if you go for endurance go for longer distances.

"Day 1: Push Day. Add one set of standard farmer's walks.
Day 2: Pull Day. Add one set of single-arm farmer's walks.
Day 3: Leg Day. Add one set of uneven farmer's walks, a different weight in each hand.

The goal every week is to increase load or duration of the set.

Week 1: Walk 25 feet up and back 3 times
Week 2: Walk 30 feet up and back 3 times
Week 3: Increase the weight and walk 25 feet
Week 4: Walk 30 feet with the heavier weight"


Walking 25ft up and back three times is one set each, or one set total....? Or maybe am I thinking too much about this, and should just walk?



Do you like milk? Kwark & honey? If not...you need to fix that ;)

Yeah I eat one cup of quark a day, one can of tuna (at which point the grams of protein is equal to my bodyweight), it's still difficult to get 150g a day -- and relatively expensive. I'll see if maybe there's some cheaper protein powder or something.

[Dodo]

been doing weightlifting for years now, on and off. If you looked at me, you would not see a guy whos been doing it for years though. I just seem to lose everything so fast.
Fuck the genes, I guess.

[Lanfear]

I am definitely going to add in farmers wlak to my routines
Whats quark? Im assuming its not the sub atomic particle

[PhoenixAsh]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(dairy_product)

It is a dairy product low on fat and carbs and high on protein. It is stiffer than yoghurt.

[PhoenixAsh]

"Day 1: Push Day. Add one set of standard farmer's walks.
Day 2: Pull Day. Add one set of single-arm farmer's walks.
Day 3: Leg Day. Add one set of uneven farmer's walks, a different weight in each hand.

The goal every week is to increase load or duration of the set.

Week 1: Walk 25 feet up and back 3 times
Week 2: Walk 30 feet up and back 3 times
Week 3: Increase the weight and walk 25 feet
Week 4: Walk 30 feet with the heavier weight"


Walking 25ft up and back three times is one set each, or one set total....? Or maybe am I thinking too much about this, and should just walk?




Yeah I eat one cup of quark a day, one can of tuna (at which point the grams of protein is equal to my bodyweight), it's still difficult to get 150g a day -- and relatively expensive. I'll see if maybe there's some cheaper protein powder or something.

add some protein powder. don't fuzz too much about the grams 1.5 per kg is more than enough. If you drink a liter of milk you are up to 35 gram of protein.

Farmers walk
Do three sets of 25-30 feet. Your grip will probably give out first. And do them at the end of your routine.

get a nice creatine powder.

[Tim Cornelis]

I think cottage chees is consumed instead of quark in North America.

[Tim Cornelis]

First, what's with these gym trainers and instructors giving shitty advice. First gym I went to had these premade workout routines full of isolation movements and those isolation-type machines, and in my current gym I saw an instructor giving instructions to a new member about exclusively isolation dumbell movements. Is it somehow profitable to demotivate your members?

Anyway...
I saw a video which gave some good advice, pick a program/routine and stick with it, and don't change it, because it's specifically designed for optimal effect, and then I changed mine a little bit thinking couldn't be that bad, then changed a lil' more, and a lil' more still. So no idea if this is.... something:

monday
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 4x8
Bent over Row 4x8
Dips 4x8
Bicep curls 3x12

wednesday
Deadlift 5x5
Shoulder press 3x12
Dumbell Incline Bench 4x8
Plate raises 3x12
Farmers' walk

friday
Squat 5x5
Bench press 4x8
Pull ups 5x5
Farmers' walk
:confused::confused:

[Lanfear]

Done some farmers walk in last night. 24 kg dumbells in each hand and about a 40m walk. Tough but gonna keep it on

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Absolutely not. I only like exercises designed to make me more cat like and quick and such. Very mild if any strength training.

[PhoenixAsh]

First, what's with these gym trainers and instructors giving shitty advice. First gym I went to had these premade workout routines full of isolation movements and those isolation-type machines, and in my current gym I saw an instructor giving instructions to a new member about exclusively isolation dumbell movements. Is it somehow profitable to demotivate your members?

Anyway...
I saw a video which gave some good advice, pick a program/routine and stick with it, and don't change it, because it's specifically designed for optimal effect, and then I changed mine a little bit thinking couldn't be that bad, then changed a lil' more, and a lil' more still. So no idea if this is.... something:

monday
Squat 5x5
Bench Press 4x8
Bent over Row 4x8
Dips 4x8
Bicep curls 3x12

wednesday
Deadlift 5x5
Shoulder press 3x12
Dumbell Incline Bench 4x8
Plate raises 3x12
Farmers' walk

friday
Squat 5x5
Bench press 4x8
Pull ups 5x5
Farmers' walk
:confused::confused:

Stop your fetish with bench press :P :P

Very good start.

Do your farmers walk on monday instead of wednesday. And don't do the incline dumbbell on wednesday....three times chest is too much. You are going to overextend your front delts. You can do the incline instead of the normal bench on friday.


Here is my schedule:

Day A

Bench press: 8x10
Incline Dumbbell press: 6x10
Decline Dumbbell press: 6x10
Weighted dips: 8x10
Flys: alternating cable/dumbbell/machine depending on mood and accessibility 3x8

Day B

Weighted chin 2x10 pull ups 2x10 wide grip 2x10
Deep Dead lifts 4x10
T-bar row 4x10
Cable row 3x10
Seated lateral bent over raises 5x12
Farmers walk 6x20 meters 40% bw

Day C

Squats 5x10
Good mornings 3x8
Lunches 3x8
Leg Press 5x10
Seated Calf 2x30
Standing Calf 2x30
Front Kick 4x10

[Tim Cornelis]

What the actual fuck...


Men who work out regularly generally require more calories daily for weight maintenance than inactive men. According to the University of Washington, while moderately active men need about 15 calories for each pound of their body weight per day, men who regularly perform strenuous-intensity exercise need closer to 18 calories per pound of body weight daily. The University of Missouri Extension notes that male athletes may require more than 22.7 calories per pound of their body weight each day.

I eat about 5 meals a day, eat consistently throughout the day, and my caloric intake is about 2400-2650 calories a day.

Now I weigh 163 pounds (74 kg), which means, according to this research, that I need

2445 calories a day (normal man -- how the fuck do normal people even get close to 2500? I used to eat 3 meals a day and not eat consistently throughout the day, I'm guessing my caloric intake was about 1600 and I ate plenty).

2934 calories a day.

or

3700 calories a day. How's that humanly possible?

[RA89]

What the actual fuck...



I eat about 5 meals a day, eat consistently throughout the day, and my caloric intake is about 2400-2650 calories a day.

Now I weigh 163 pounds (74 kg), which means, according to this research, that I need

2445 calories a day (normal man -- how the fuck do normal people even get close to 2500? I used to eat 3 meals a day and not eat consistently throughout the day, I'm guessing my caloric intake was about 1600 and I ate plenty).

2934 calories a day.

or

3700 calories a day. How's that humanly possible?

It's not really that hard bro. With calorie dense food it can be quite easy especially for someone with a big appetite and/or huge calorie expenditure.

I could easily hit near 4k if I wasn't disciplined (regularly do so on cheat days). A lot of competitive bodybuilders (natural) reach way higher.

I used to have a small appetite, took some force feeding at first but now I love eating. Not that I encourage dirty bulking.

[Tim Cornelis]

It's not really that hard bro. With calorie dense food it can be quite easy especially for someone with a big appetite and/or huge calorie expenditure.

I could easily hit near 4k if I wasn't disciplined (regularly do so on cheat days). A lot of competitive bodybuilders (natural) reach way higher.

I used to have a small appetite, took some force feeding at first but now I love eating. Not that I encourage dirty bulking.

Hmm yeah, I'm thinking taking 2 shots of olive oil and two teaspoons of coconut oil.

My only cheat day so far was normal day + one large bowl of chips and a bit of mayonnaise.

[RA89]

Hmm yeah, I'm thinking taking 2 shots of olive oil and two teaspoons of coconut oil.

My only cheat day so far was normal day + one large bowl of chips and a bit of mayonnaise.

What is a typical day of eating like for you?

Do you track it with something like myfitnesspal and track it accurately (weighing food etc)?
I don't personally believe in always weighing food and tracking cals religiously btw but I think it's good to do it for a few months just to get a good idea of how much you're actually eating.
I ask this because I'm sure you could hit 2400cals without struggling.

[PhoenixAsh]

My problems are with diet. As always that is the most important factor in making gains: nutrition.

Food is my enemy. Taking time to eat is problematic as well.

What you think you eat; what theoretic calories it should contain....and what you are actually eating and what the actual calories of that are usually differ greatly.

[Naroc]

I've got a question about the times to eat throughout the day. I've heard if one is eating constantly and smaller meals he keeps up his metabolism, which means burning fat or losing more weight. But as i'm a guy who's tending to be kinda skinny, wouldn't it therefore be better to eat only 2-3 times a day but more at every meal?

[PhoenixAsh]

I've got a question about the times to eat throughout the day. I've heard if one is eating constantly and smaller meals he keeps up his metabolism, which means burning fat or losing more weight. But as i'm a guy who's tending to be kinda skinny, wouldn't it therefore be better to eat only 2-3 times a day but more at every meal?

No.

Standard is 6-7-8 times a day (one every two hours). With portion size varying to need. If you are skinny you need to adjust what and how much you eat...and not by slowing down metabolism.

[Naroc]

Well,that's a relief. I don't know if i'd survive to only eat 2-3 times a day.

[Tim Cornelis]

What is a typical day of eating like for you?

Do you track it with something like myfitnesspal and track it accurately (weighing food etc)?
I don't personally believe in always weighing food and tracking cals religiously btw but I think it's good to do it for a few months just to get a good idea of how much you're actually eating.
I ask this because I'm sure you could hit 2400cals without struggling.

Yesterday.

Breakfast:
1x peanutbutter slice of whole wheat bread
2x glass of milk
30g oatmeal + 180-200ml milk

'Inbetween':
1x peanutbutter slice of whole wheat bread

Lunch:
3x peanutbutter slice of whole wheat bread
(ran out of milk)

Lunch 2:
100g of whole grain penne pasta plus can of tuna in sunflower oil

Dinner:
80g of Brown rice plus vegetables

'Inbetween':
Half a can of quark

Midnight 'snack':
2x peanutbutter slice of whole wheat bread
1x banana (ran out of bananas)
1x teaspoon of coconut oil (disgusting shit)

Protein: 144.6
Calories: 2495

Sometimes I do a second breakfast instead of an 'inbetween', but I got up late.
Also, often eggs before going to sleep since apparently that's extra beneficial.

[RA89]

@Tim I'm guessing you're a vegetarian? And eat fish/dairy?

[Tim Cornelis]

Yes, pescetarian. Not sure why you assumed that (not eating meat for a few days per week the rule around where I live), but you're right.

[GalickyH]

No.

Standard is 6-7-8 times a day (one every two hours). With portion size varying to need. If you are skinny you need to adjust what and how much you eat...and not by slowing down metabolism.
This is a myth. I ate like this many years, but last year and half Im on diet called Intermittend Fasting (it is easy to find many information about it). Especially, if you want loss some weight, it is very good choose. I have 16/8 protocol for. Crucial point is, that you skipe the breakfast. My feeding time is from 14-00 to 22-00 pm, which means cca three meals + supplements after training. ;)

[RA89]

Yes, pescetarian. Not sure why you assumed that (not eating meat for a few days per week the rule around where I live), but you're right.

Just assumed it because meat is one of the easiest ways to hit bodybuilding macros.

Looks like you get a nice amount of protein and carbs. You'd probably find it easier if you ate more fish, eggs and cheese. Would give you more protein + cals and save you from needing coconut oil shots.

[RA89]

This is a myth. I ate like this many years, but last year and half Im on diet called Intermittend Fasting (it is easy to find many information about it). Especially, if you want loss some weight, it is very good choose. I have 16/8 protocol for. Crucial point is, that you skipe the breakfast. My feeding time is from 14-00 to 22-00 pm, which means cca three meals + supplements after training. ;)

Agree that is it a myth. From everything I've read/watched meal frequency and to some extent meal timing are very irrelevant. All comes down to personal preference.
But I wouldn't say there are any advantages to IF, other than convenience for some. Meaning I don't believe the actual fasting produces superior fat loss to a regular eating schedule.

My sweet spot is 4 meals a day.

[GalickyH]

It si connected (IF) with lvl of cortisol and insulin, with benefit of fat loss.

My personal experience is very good (and my friends) and also experiences people at bodybuilding forums.

But true is, when i wanted gain some weight, I had expand the time interval of feeding to cca 10 hours (one extra meal). But, everything is about caloric intake.

Years before I went to different diets, like carbohydrate waves, but IF is better for me (better meals-time managament, meals can be tasty, lower muscle loss).

[Tim Cornelis]

Just assumed it because meat is one of the easiest ways to hit bodybuilding macros.

Looks like you get a nice amount of protein and carbs. You'd probably find it easier if you ate more fish, eggs and cheese. Would give you more protein + cals and save you from needing coconut oil shots.

Well I've been hitting my macros consistently now, except for carbohydrates. The day after I posted that I hit 3,583.5 calories; 178,8g protein; 167.5g carbs without really trying. And what PhoenixAsh said is right, 1.5x bodyweight of protein is enough, because the rule of thumb '2g for every kilo of ' is about lean muscle mass, not bodyweight. So I am getting 'too much' protein.

Only carbs are too low (340g, keep hitting around 200g).

Not sure how accurate my measurements are but my waist expanded about 2cm in three weeks, so I may be getting too many calories. Or I need to do a lil' more cardio.

Question directed at no one in particular: are mountain climbers good (for cardio), or do they impair muscle growth by expanding muscle effort, and so muscles not getting enough rest to grow?

I'm also interested in intermittent fasting because apparently it results in less/lower bodyweight gains.

[PhoenixAsh]

Good exercises to loose body fat are exercises which prompt the body to maintain muscle mass.

Kick Fun for example is incredibly effective cardio and fat burning while giving the body the impetus to retain protein mass (by the need to exert force). In three weeks I lost 7 pounds of fat just by doing 2 hours of intensive Kick Fun a week.

The same goes for mountain climbing (well...bouldering) which requires continued burning of calories while using your muscles.

[PhoenixAsh]

Good exercises to loose body fat are exercises which prompt the body to maintain muscle mass.

Kick Fun for example is incredibly effective cardio and fat burning while giving the body the impetus to retain protein mass (by the need to exert force). In three weeks I lost 7 pounds of fat just by doing 2 hours of intensive Kick Fun a week.

The same goes for mountain climbing (well...bouldering) which requires continued burning of calories while using your muscles.

[Tim Cornelis]

I meant the exercise mountain climbers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SR_AYW8AOA

One month on. Moderately excited. Put on roughly 1.5 kg of bodyweight. A bit too much fat I'm thinking. Waist expanded a bit over 2cm. Biceps grew roughly 0.5cm. Chest roughly 2cm. I don't really trust my measuring though.

[PhoenixAsh]

This is a myth. I ate like this many years, but last year and half Im on diet called Intermittend Fasting (it is easy to find many information about it). Especially, if you want loss some weight, it is very good choose. I have 16/8 protocol for. Crucial point is, that you skipe the breakfast. My feeding time is from 14-00 to 22-00 pm, which means cca three meals + supplements after training. ;)

no it isn't a myth and user does not want to loose weight but gain weight.

[GalickyH]

no it isn't a myth and user does not want to loose weight but gain weight.
It is possible to gain weight with this method. Everything is about your caloric intake.

[Tim Cornelis]

Anyone care to comment whether this 2 month progress is good enough or whether it could be better?

Strength gains
Looking at the lasts sets, it's basically all +10kg.
Squat before 5x50 5x55 5x60 5x60 5x60
Squat now 5x55 5x60 5x60 5x65 5x70

Deadlift before 6x20 5x40 5x40 5x45 5x45
Deadlift now 4x45 5x45 5x50 5x50 5x55

Bench press before 8x40 8x40 8x40 8x40
Bench press now 8x40 8x42.5 8x45 8x50

bent over row before 10x30 8x40 9x40 8x45
bent over row now 8x40 8x50 8x55 8x57.5

Body gains

Beginning (all in centimeters)
Right upper arm: 32.1
Left upper arm: 32.5
Waist: 80
Chest: 91
Weight: roughly 74kg

After 1 month
Right upper arm: 32.4 (+0.3)
Left upper arm: 33 (+0.5)
Waist: 82 (+2)
Chest: 93 (+2)
Right forearm: 23.5
Left forearm:24
Right thigh: 57.8
Left thigh: 57.5
Neck: 37
Width: 115.2
Weight: roughly 75.5kg (+1.5kg)

After 2 months
Right upper arm: 33.4 (+1)
Left upper arm: 34.2 (+1.2)
Waist: 82.2 (+0.2)
Chest: 95 (+2)
Right forearm: 25.5 (+2)
Left forearm: 25 (+1)
Right thigh: 58.5 (+1)
Left thigh: 57.5 (0)
Neck: 37.5 (+0.5)
Width: 118 (+2.8)
Weight: roughly 77.5kg (+2kg)

[Patrice O'neal]

No.

Standard is 6-7-8 times a day (one every two hours). With portion size varying to need. If you are skinny you need to adjust what and how much you eat...and not by slowing down metabolism.

Hey, this is going to seem like forum stalking as i literally just replied to you in another thread, so sorry about that.

I just wanted to ask, have you seen most of the studies and info put out by Alan Aragon and Lyle Mcdonald? They seem to pretty much debunk meal timing etc having any affect on metabolic process and instead argue overall macronutrient profile and calories determine wight loss/gain.

[Ele'ill]

a couple points

you don't need the amount of protein that bodybuilding cults advertise, that is pure marketing, you could do with half your weight or less

protein sources are still calories you can gain weight not in muscle if you consume too much

exercise is a shitty way to lose weight in comparison to how easy it is to consume calories on a daily basis, doesn't matter weight lifting or cardio, diet is key to augmenting your bf%

in light of the last post(s) on diet timing, Its not that 'timing' is important by the minute or even hour but at some point your body needs fuel and is going to use muscle, just not as much muscle as bodybuilding cults carry on about

[Tim Cornelis]

a couple points

you don't need the amount of protein that bodybuilding cults advertise, that is pure marketing, you could do with half your weight or less

It's true that the recommended daily protein intake is exaggerated for marketing purposes, it looks like 'half your weight or less' is also an exaggeration. It would be 84.5 grams for me or less

"Based on the sound research, many review papers have concluded 0.82g/lb is the upper limit at which protein intake benefits body composition (Phillips & Van Loon, 2011). This recommendation often includes a double 95% confidence level, meaning they took the highest mean intake at which benefits were still observed and then added two standard deviations to that level to make absolutely sure all possible benefits from additional protein intake are utilized. As such, this is already overdoing it and consuming 1g/lb ‘to be safe’ doesn’t make any sense. 0.82g/lb is already very safe.

... 1.8g/kg (0.82g/lb) [/bodyweight] is the point at which additional protein intake ceases to yield any benefits."

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

According to this I should be eating up to 138 grams of protein. I eat 120 grams.


protein sources are still calories you can gain weight not in muscle if you consume too much

exercise is a shitty way to lose weight in comparison to how easy it is to consume calories on a daily basis, doesn't matter weight lifting or cardio, diet is key to augmenting your bf%


No doubt you will gain weight not in muscle if you consume too much -- I have unfortunately gained quite some fat. But that, eating a surplus of 200 calories minimum above your maintenance, is an unfortunate requirement to build muscle.

[Five Year Plan]

No, powerlifting is not my thing, and I don't want to become a big beefcake, but I do stay in good shape.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

http://api.thumbr.io/74aa2c4ab3c50858f4924b74aa885eba/td01lCLK6KuyQknexL6E/static.funnypik.com/thumb/94/93692.jpg/200x200t/the-most-famous-female-bodybuilder.jpg

I lift all the time brah, what's up?

[Five Year Plan]

http://api.thumbr.io/74aa2c4ab3c50858f4924b74aa885eba/td01lCLK6KuyQknexL6E/static.funnypik.com/thumb/94/93692.jpg/200x200t/the-most-famous-female-bodybuilder.jpg

I lift all the time brah, what's up?

Olive Oyl has been eating her spinach!

[Patrice O'neal]

a couple points

you don't need the amount of protein that bodybuilding cults advertise, that is pure marketing, you could do with half your weight or less

protein sources are still calories you can gain weight not in muscle if you consume too much

exercise is a shitty way to lose weight in comparison to how easy it is to consume calories on a daily basis, doesn't matter weight lifting or cardio, diet is key to augmenting your bf%

in light of the last post(s) on diet timing, Its not that 'timing' is important by the minute or even hour but at some point your body needs fuel and is going to use muscle, just not as much muscle as bodybuilding cults carry on about

What you are saying depends on individuals ability to synthesise protein. Also on a cut it is usually advised by most respected non advertised people like AA, Lyle and Berkhan to have 2-3g of protein per lbm because of each calorie when protein works out something like 3.4 rather than 4, meaning you can stay satiated, keep lean mass and prevent catabolic states while on a calorie defecit.

Also peoples own natural hormone levels and whether or not they are enhanced dictates how much protein they can utilise. Most enhanced lifters like bodybuilders and powerlifters can take in 300-400 grams of protein a day and utilise most of it. I know one of the best young powerlifters of all time advocates huge protein intake:

fxFtqA9jo1I

[Patrice O'neal]

a couple points

you don't need the amount of protein that bodybuilding cults advertise, that is pure marketing, you could do with half your weight or less

protein sources are still calories you can gain weight not in muscle if you consume too much

exercise is a shitty way to lose weight in comparison to how easy it is to consume calories on a daily basis, doesn't matter weight lifting or cardio, diet is key to augmenting your bf%

in light of the last post(s) on diet timing, Its not that 'timing' is important by the minute or even hour but at some point your body needs fuel and is going to use muscle, just not as much muscle as bodybuilding cults carry on about

Also your body won't start eating muscle for about a week unless you are a 260 pound enhanced bodybuilder. People do intermittent fasting all the time and don't lose muscle, look at Martin Berkhan, he eats 8 hours out of the day, the rest is fasted. He is about 185-200lbs and shredded to the bone.

Studies on runners show that even ones who ran high endurance events taking weeks o nly lost like 1 pounds on average of lean body mass. Missing a meal for 5 hours won't just trigger the body to bypass fat stores and start chowing down on muscle.

[Ele'ill]

Also your body won't start eating muscle for about a week unless you are a 260 pound enhanced bodybuilder. People do intermittent fasting all the time and don't lose muscle, look at Martin Berkhan, he eats 8 hours out of the day, the rest is fasted. He is about 185-200lbs and shredded to the bone.

Studies on runners show that even ones who ran high endurance events taking weeks o nly lost like 1 pounds on average of lean body mass. Missing a meal for 5 hours won't just trigger the body to bypass fat stores and start chowing down on muscle.

this is exactly what i'm saying

regarding your other post, a mistake a lot of folks make is overestimating the amount of calories they are burning during their workouts and over-eating in an obsession to intake 1-2g/lb of body weight in protein which ends up augmenting their body composition, which isn't as important to power lifters and arguably athletes as it is to bodybuilders who are focusing almost entirely on aesthetics

[motion denied]

So if I'm doing ABCD (chest+triceps, back+biceps, shoulders, legs) should I rest one (or more) day of the week? Or should I go everyday except for Sundays?

Resting seems obvious, but I'd be training chest (for ex.) only once a week...

[Ele'ill]

What kind of rep/sets are you doing for each exercise, what is your goal? 5x5 or higher rep 12+ / set?

[motion denied]

What kind of rep/sets are you doing for each exercise, what is your goal? 5x5 or higher rep 12+ / set?

Goal is hypertrophy. It's all 4 sets of 8-10 reps.

A
Low cable cross-over
Bench ress barbell
Inclined dumbbell flyes
Smith machine inclined bench press until failure
Triceps dips
Triceps extension from forehead + french press + pulley

B
Rear pull down
Wide grip row
Narrow grip pull ups
T-bar row until failure
Biceps curl
Scott machine + hammer curl + hercules curls

C
Frontal raise (unilateral)
Dumbbell shoulder press (unilateral) + dumbbell lateral raise (unilateral)
Standing barbell rear shoulder press
Rear upright row + dumbbell shrugs

D
Legs were the last routine I did before changing, haven't done the new one yet.

I spent fuckload of time to translate all this to English, hope it's all correct.

[Tim Cornelis]

why not squats or deadlifts?

Personally I'd hate doing that routine with the tedious exercises.

[Ele'ill]

I agree that the base of your workouts should be the basic lifts. Deadlifts, squats, bench, military press, rows, weighted pull ups. I'm not going to speculate how your body responds because everyone is different but a lot of folks don't need any more than 1-2 sets of specific arm work like curls/skull crush.

[motion denied]

why not squats or deadlifts?

Personally I'd hate doing that routine with the tedious exercises.

Turns out I'm doing squats.


I agree that the base of your workouts should be the basic lifts. Deadlifts, squats, bench, military press, rows, weighted pull ups. I'm not going to speculate how your body responds because everyone is different but a lot of folks don't need any more than 1-2 sets of specific arm work like curls/skull crush.

Yes, I'll see how it works out.