Too politically correct?

[TheCommunistManifestor]

A thing i have noticed lately among communists is that they are very open to different races,genders,religions, and ways of life. This is great and i was reminded of this when i was ranting about being called gay and a member said "Why is it a problem being called gay if being gay isn't an insult?". The right wing is notorious for discriminating against race and genders.

I live in a town that is 2/3 conservative in rural Pennsylvania with a population that is 90% white and 99% straight. Because of this, racist and/or sexist jokes are thrown around and joked about. For example, my white coach made a joke about my black friend stealing a bus and everyone including my black friend was laughing. Heads would have exploded in anger in liberal SoCal (South California) and the coach would have been fired. Slurs like "nigger" and "pussy" and "queerbag" are dropped daily. These terms become watered down after being used and everyone is used to them in jokes.

About 2 months ago, i used the term "pussy" and got a infraction for sexism. My point is, arn't we commies just a bit too politically correct that we can't stand a kindhearted if maybe dark joke? The stereotype about blacks stealing was in my coach's joke but can't we embrace the stereotypes instead of hiding behind politically correctness? I may get banned for "Racism and Discrimination" but can't we all just lighten up a bit?

[RedWorker]

Well, there's a line between joking around and behaving in a reactionary manner - and crossing that line shouldn't be tolerated.


i was reminded of this when i was ranting about being called gay and a member said "Why is it a problem being called gay if being gay isn't an insult?"

If someone calls someone "gay" meant as an insult, he's perpetuating the idea that being "gay" is some bad thing, and therefore continuing the only thing which allows discrimination against homosexuals to happen worldwide.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Well the behavior of the people in your town is unacceptable. I mean c'mon. They sound like a bunch of ignorant fucks.

BUT, that being said, I agree with the premise. Someone on this forum the other day got berated for saying the word "twat", yet literally today a few hours ago, another user said the word "twat" and everyone was completely fine with it. I could drop the names of those users, but that would be a bit immature.

I agree though, people get too fucking offended at things that are clearly not meant to be offensive. I don't want to live in a world where I have to be terrified of what people will get offended at next. It almost feels like a fucking group therapy session sometimes with all this touchy-feely shit.

And I love how stupid liberals think it's offensive to call people "white" or "black." I had a black friend from Jamaica and he used to get so irritated at the word "African American." When people referred to him as that, he would say, "actually I'm black. I'm from Jamaica." And then I run across the occasional person who will call white people "caucasian." Holy shit.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

"Political correctness" is a term reactionaries use when they're called out. I bet you're a straight cis white man.

[TheCommunistManifestor]

Yes i am in fact a white male. Does that really matter? Middle Eastern men also discriminate if not more. Heck, even AFRICANS had African slaves. Discriminating isn't just a white male thing. We also discriminate. We hate on the Bourgeoisie. We also hate on racists just because of their beliefs.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Yes i am in fact a white male. Does that really matter? Middle Eastern men also discriminate if not more. Heck, even AFRICANS had African slaves. Discriminating isn't just a white male thing. We also discriminate. We hate on the Bourgeoisie. We also hate on racists just because of their beliefs.
Dude, you sound like a conservative. That's my point. From being a straight cis white man to talking about "PC" to pointing out "Africans had slaves", you sound like every conservative I've ever known.

[TheCommunistManifestor]

Yes because that is probably my rural isolated racist "only good commie is a dead commie" self. I am actually a Social-Democrat that is not racist or sexist and i actually listen to Johnny Rebel for comedic purposes because of how stupid the southeastern racists are.

[Crabbensmasher]

About 2 months ago, i used the term "pussy" and got a infraction for sexism. My point is, arn't we commies just a bit too politically correct that we can't stand a kindhearted if maybe dark joke? The stereotype about blacks stealing was in my coach's joke but can't we embrace the stereotypes instead of hiding behind politically correctness? I may get banned for "Racism and Discrimination" but can't we all just lighten up a bit?

Saying something like 'pussy' to refer to somebody being a wimp is terrible if you think about it. Just take a minute and think about the origin of it.

It's basically used as an insult to men because of their perceived emasculation (ie. their 'girlishness'). First off, this is wrong because it conforms to regressive prejudices of what it means to be masculine, feminine, man, or woman. It's like the term 'Man up'. Who are you to tell me what a 'man' is supposed to act like?

Second off, it basically equates femaleness with their genitalia. Yeah, tell me that's not fucking objectifying. A woman is not a 'pussy', a woman is a woman.



I don't only push for political correctness (or whatever you wanna call it) so people don't get offended (you're right, often they don't offend people), but because there's an end goal behind it. If you want to abolish gender prejudices (hint: you do), you can't go around calling people a 'pussy'. It don't fucking work that way.

[consuming negativity]

Yes because that is probably my rural isolated racist "only good commie is a dead commie" self. I am actually a Social-Democrat that is not racist or sexist and i actually listen to Johnny Rebel for comedic purposes because of how stupid the southeastern racists are.

Aren't social democrats supposed to be restricted? If they aren't, let this thread be a testament to why they should.

[BIXX]

Well the behavior of the people in your town is unacceptable. I mean c'mon. They sound like a bunch of ignorant fucks.

BUT, that being said, I agree with the premise. Someone on this forum the other day got berated for saying the word "twat", yet literally today a few hours ago, another user said the word "twat" and everyone was completely fine with it. I could drop the names of those users, but that would be a bit immature.

I agree though, people get too fucking offended at things that are clearly not meant to be offensive. I don't want to live in a world where I have to be terrified of what people will get offended at next. It almost feels like a fucking group therapy session sometimes with all this touchy-feely shit.

And I love how stupid liberals think it's offensive to call people "white" or "black." I had a black friend from Jamaica and he used to get so irritated at the word "African American." When people referred to him as that, he would say, "actually I'm black. I'm from Jamaica." And then I run across the occasional person who will call white people "caucasian." Holy shit.

While I think we should demand equal accountability, I think context does matter. So maybe one instance of the word "twat" actually wasn't a problem (without knowing the context I can't say. If in fact they were both offensive then I'm kinda annoyed that the second user got away with it scot free)?

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

While I think we should demand equal accountability, I think context does matter. So maybe one instance of the word "twat" actually wasn't a problem (without knowing the context I can't say. If in fact they were both offensive then I'm kinda annoyed that the second user got away with it scot free)?

Yeah, see I can jump on board to criticize it if it's consistent. But I think context matters too, but I've been berated for saying that as well. I REALLY want to link you to the thread, but that seems childish I guess. But it just irritated me that when one user says it, it's awful, but when another user says it, it's cool.

[TheCommunistManifestor]

Aren't social democrats supposed to be restricted? If they aren't, let this thread be a testament to why they should.

Dude i am Communist in everything but name. I am only one step left away from being Communist because i am not dedicated enough to take up arms against the bourgeoisie so i am shunned as a reformist. I'm not gonna lie and say i am a communist but i sure as hell am close.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I am only one step left away from being Communist because i am not dedicated enough to take up arms against the bourgeoisie
I don't think you understand what communism is.

[RedWorker]

Dude i am Communist in everything but name. I am only one step left away from being Communist because i am not dedicated enough to take up arms against the bourgeoisie so i am shunned as a reformist. I'm not gonna lie and say i am a communist but i sure as hell am close.

First of all, not wanting to personally participate in a violent revolution does not stop you from being a communist.
Second, not all communists approve of a violent revolution, this was addressed in a recent thread.
The only requirement to being a communist is liking communism.

[TheCommunistManifestor]

First of all, not wanting to personally participate in a violent revolution does not stop you from being a communist.
Second, not all communists approve of a violent revolution, this was addressed in a recent thread.
The only requirement to being a communist is liking communism.

Which is the same thing that happened to the Social Democrat Party of Germany which was originally a bunch of marxists that didn't want to rebel which eventually became the Social Democrats because the term Communist doesn't really get you votes. They were communists in all but name until after ww2 when they became socialists.

[BIXX]

Yeah, see I can jump on board to criticize it if it's consistent. But I think context matters too, but I've been berated for saying that as well. I REALLY want to link you to the thread, but that seems childish I guess. But it just irritated me that when one user says it, it's awful, but when another user says it, it's cool.


Go ahead and PM me the relevant posts/info. I'm curious :P


Dude i am Communist in everything but name. I am only one step left away from being Communist because i am not dedicated enough to take up arms against the bourgeoisie so i am shunned as a reformist. I'm not gonna lie and say i am a communist but i sure as hell am close.


I don't even what is this

You are a reformist.

What is communism to you?


Which is the same thing that happened to the Social Democrat Party of Germany which was originally a bunch of marxists that didn't want to rebel which eventually became the Social Democrats because the term Communist doesn't really get you votes. They were communists in all but name until after ww2 when they became socialists.


Just... No. No. Socialists are communists.

Also that isn't why they were social democrats. And... Oh god... The stupid... I feel it's weird clumsy grip on my heart...

[MarcusJuniusBrutus]

"Politically correct" actually means that one is declining to participate in the culture of oppression. Using gender specific insults reinforces gender norms and in particular that female and weakness are synonymous. That idea is part of a larger culture of discrimination that actually hedges in men and women. Women are seen as weak (despite the evidence to the contrary) and men are never allowed to be anything that one might see as weak.

[#FF0000]

I think words and actions should be consistent, so no, I don't think anyone is "too politically correct" for not using racist or sexist language. Obviously people are human, but if one is anti-racist or anti-sexist than one's words and actions should reflect that.

[Rosa Partizan]

I find it very disturbing to take those jokes and remarks from literary everyone in town and vice versa telling them to anyone. This "politically too correct" thing comes from people who most certainly aren't aware of what oppressions the people they're joking about went and still go through. I myself have some people very close to me whose attitude I know, and in a certain context something may be okay, e.g. them joking about balkans stereotypes (since I'm from there) or the guy I like who's a total feminist making some sexist remarks only in my presence and knows how I will take them, and yeah, sometimes I find that funny as hell. But only because I know the person behind the joke well enough to be completely sure that is nothing they would really support or believe in.

[Red Economist]

Most people don't want to be known or seen as stereotypes. But enforcing political correctness for it's own sake does would only cover up problems such as racism, sexism, homophobia etc. The real question is whether you can get someone to voluntarily change the way they think- not just what they say. :confused:

[Tim Cornelis]

I associate 'political correctness' with something else entirely: cultural relativism ("yeah, domestic abuse in Pakistan is rampant but it's their culture, be sensitive to it") and the use of 'black tokens' (or other non-white people or muslims, often hijabis), and proclaiming you are colourblind (pretending that if you say race doesn't exist, racism will not either).


Which is the same thing that happened to the Social Democrat Party of Germany which was originally a bunch of marxists that didn't want to rebel which eventually became the Social Democrats because the term Communist doesn't really get you votes. They were communists in all but name until after ww2 when they became socialists.

That's not what happened. They were not communists until after WW2, certainly not with the crushing of the German revolution of 1918-1919, and 'socialists' only if you use it in a very broad sense, which most here don't.

[Quail]

I wouldn't call this forum "politically correct" because really it's a slightly meaningless phrase generally used by people who don't like being called out on their prejudiced language. Part of being against discrimination is examining the ways in which language and our actions help to perpetuate structures of oppression. So if you'd spent any time at all thinking about sexism, you'd realise that calling someone a p*ssy or a b*tch isn't acceptable because it reinforces negative gender stereotypes or that using gay as a synonym for bad is homophobic because it implies that gay is a bad thing to be. If you'd really thought about these issues then you wouldn't dismiss our objection to prejudiced language as "PC nonsense" or whatever, because you simply wouldn't want to use it.

[Futility Personified]

Why can't I call black people a name historically used to devalue them as human beings and cement the idea that they are either property or intrinsically malevolent. Why can't I call asian people a name that denigrates their appearance and establishes a purposeful delineation between "us and them" as a hangup from imperialist wars. Why can't I use a word to describe someones sexuality as a byword for not very good or inferior. It's all just a laugh, har har har!

Oh wait. Slurs are part of the pastiche of dehumanization and invalidation to dimiss other people as human beings, regard their concerns as jokes or "fringe-concerns" and perpetuate their oppression.

The argument that you can't call a spade a spade, why do you need to? Sometimes I feel that the people espousing their god-given right to chuck around racist jokes are really threatened because they have the creativity of a louse and can't come up with anything genuinely funny to say.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I live in a town that is 2/3 conservative in rural Pennsylvania with a population that is 90% white and 99% straight. Because of this, racist and/or sexist jokes are thrown around and joked about. For example, my white coach made a joke about my black friend stealing a bus and everyone including my black friend was laughing. Heads would have exploded in anger in liberal SoCal (South California) and the coach would have been fired. Slurs like "nigger" and "pussy" and "queerbag" are dropped daily. These terms become watered down after being used and everyone is used to them in jokes.i work customer service in liberal Berkeley California where people politically correct liberals ask me to racially profile people coming into the building, where people think that arresting homeless people is a proper solution, where yuppies treat service workers like nonhumans. Southern California has the densest concentration of outright hate groups of anywhere else in the u.s.

Things are different from place to place, but racism and sexism and homophobia are u.s. (Not alone in the modern world) problems, not regional or rural vs. urban.

On another note, I highly doubt that 99% of people in your town have only heterosexual tendencies... It's more likely that the homophobic slurs and attitudes you mention are keeping people too intimidated to either be open or to even act on their own sexual preferences. It's not that everyone in that town is the same and so they all feel cool mocking different people, that casual mocking is what helps maintain the sameness by intimidating anything outside of that. This is why I believe that it's important to stand up to common language that invokes or supports oppressions... Not to sanitize and sweep issues under to rug (as in liberal PC), but as a small part of combating the casual intimidation or marginalization of people.


About 2 months ago, i used the term "pussy" and got a infraction for sexism. My point is, arn't we commies just a bit too politically correct that we can't stand a kindhearted if maybe dark joke? The stereotype about blacks stealing was in my coach's joke but can't we embrace the stereotypes instead of hiding behind politically correctness? I may get banned for "Racism and Discrimination" but can't we all just lighten up a bit?i believe, oddly enough, Russell brand was right when he said that the right wing looks for ally's whereas radicals look for traitors. I do think there needs to be more openness on the left ing general, more understanding that people are coming to oppositional politics from a variety of places and views... And so to rebuild an organic force we need to be welcoming and understanding. However, lightening up on a casual racist joke or sexist slur is counter to that project since it means only openness to some people, unwelcomeness to women and ethnic or sexual minorities.

No one hides behind PC anymore because PC doesn't exist outside the right-wing arguments about liberals these days. Liberals by and large now have a colorblindness argument (also many on the right have this view) and have distanced themselves from PC. More left oriented liberals progressives and radicals probably hold a privilege theory view. But people do hide sexist and racist views behind "lighten up, it's just a joke, babe."

[MarcusJuniusBrutus]

The differences between social democrats, communists, and socialists generally is a bit academic in the USA since we have no left wing parties. (Yes there are fringe parties that never get anywhere). We have the centrist Democrats and the far right Republicans. The public and popular discourse sees anything to the left of the Democrats as extremist, undifferentiated, and radical.

[RA89]

With the word pussy is it not possible that people who say it do not intend to be sexist or to put down females but say it because the meaning has changed over time? Is it not often just a slang word to describe someone scared/weak etc?
Same way when someone is called a dick/prick/cock etc the person saying it isn't being sexist to men.

[#FF0000]

With the word pussy is it not possible that people who say it do not intend to be sexist or to put down females but say it because the meaning has changed over time? Is it not often just a slang word to describe someone scared/weak etc?
Same way when someone is called a dick/prick/cock etc the person saying it isn't being sexist to men.

Why is the feminine word = passive/weak and the masculine version = aggressive/strong?

[RA89]

Why is the feminine word = passive/weak and the masculine version = aggressive/strong?

I've never ever heard of anyone calling someone a dick to mean aggressive or strong tbh.

But maybe the association with weak for the word pussy is because women are physically not as strong as men.

[BIXX]

I've never ever heard of anyone calling someone a dick to mean aggressive or strong tbh.



But maybe the association with weak for the word pussy is because women are physically not as strong as men.


Aaaand it's time for you to fuck off.

[RA89]

Aaaand it's time for you to fuck off.

That's a biological fact. Why are you so butt hurt?

[blake 3:17]

With the word pussy is it not possible that people who say it do not intend to be sexist or to put down females but say it because the meaning has changed over time? Is it not often just a slang word to describe someone scared/weak etc?
Same way when someone is called a dick/prick/cock etc the person saying it isn't being sexist to men.

You can just use gender neutral language like I mostly do -- chicken shit, shit head, bullying asshole, manipulative fuckwad can all work.

And much thanks to JH on this. This privilege bullshit gonna make me insane. But that's for another discussion.

There's an interesting and at times amusing story of the term 'politically correct'. I've been using a bit in the Stalinist sense in the past while. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

I was going to link to a paper I disagree with but comes from a Marxist feminist perspective -- but yeah can't find it for no $$$.

[#FF0000]

I've never ever heard of anyone calling someone a dick to mean aggressive or strong tbh.

A dick is someone who's usually inconsiderate of others, so yeah.


But maybe the association with weak for the word pussy is because women are physically not as strong as men.

Nah I mean it's pretty clear that these gendered insults are couched in some preconceived ideas about sex and gender and what one's sex and gender mean. Women in a patriarchal society are typically expected to be passive, submissive, etc. while men are expected to be the actual actors in society.

Like, yeah, sure, it's colloquial language, but what is it really saying?


That's a biological fact. Why are you so butt hurt?

It's a biological fact that nobody who uses the phrase "butthurt" has ever had anything of value to say.

[RA89]

A dick is someone who's usually inconsiderate of others, so yeah.


Nah I mean it's pretty clear that these gendered insults are couched in some preconceived ideas about sex and gender and what one's sex and gender mean. Women in a patriarchal society are typically expected to be passive, submissive, etc. while men are expected to be the actual actors in society.

Like, yeah, sure, it's colloquial language, but what is it really saying?

I guess if you got to the root of it you could argue it's sexist. Do you suggest that all words that have a bad history be banned?



It's a biological fact that nobody who uses the phrase "butthurt" has ever had anything of value to say.

It's a biological fact that people who make baseless claims try too hard.

I thought that was a pretty mild response from me considering I was told to fuck off. Seriously don't get some people, can't even have a simple discussion without throwing a hissyfit and cursing. Does he/she not realise most of the proletariat use these words? I didn't use the words, merely tried to provide reasons for why they're not sexist and the basically guy calls for my ban from this site. Lame as hell.

[#FF0000]

I guess if you got to the root of it you could argue it's sexist.

You don't have to dig that far, dude -- the gendered nature of the word is right on the surface. "Pussy" is simultaneously a colloquial word for vagina and weak/cowardly/passive people that is usually used against men. "Dick" is the same for male genetalia and also refers to someone's who's rude, bruqsue, mean, whatever. You don't think that's fairly surface-level? It's not as if we're digging up some archaic meanings for the words -- the meanings are shared in our language as it exists right now.


Do you suggest that all words that have a bad history be banned?

What makes you think that I would suggest that?


Does he/she not realise most of the proletariat use these words?

Yeah, but the working class doing a thing doesn't mean it's right. A good chunk of the working class is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Doesn't mean we should be accepting of racism, sexism, homophobia, however. We need to be fighting it, and one isn't being consistent if they're using gendered insults and slurs. I mean, obviously we're all human, but one has to try to be consistent in words and actions.


I didn't use the words, merely tried to provide reasons for why they're not sexist and the basically guy calls for my ban from this site. Lame as hell.

Well, to be fair, the "guy who claims clearly sexist/racist thing isn't sexist/racist" is a classic breed of That Guy that usually ends up being a massive sexist/racist. So, that's why you got that reaction. Sorta like if you walked into a social situation and started a sentence with "I'm not racist, but..."

[PhoenixAsh]

I guess if you got to the root of it you could argue it's sexist. Do you suggest that all words that have a bad history be banned?




It's a biological fact that people who make baseless claims try too hard.

I thought that was a pretty mild response from me considering I was told to fuck off. Seriously don't get some people, can't even have a simple discussion without throwing a hissyfit and cursing. Does he/she not realise most of the proletariat use these words? I didn't use the words, merely tried to provide reasons for why they're not sexist and the basically guy calls for my ban from this site. Lame as hell.

^ coded sexist language.*

The fact that most of the proletariat uses a word doesn't mean it isn't racist, sexist or homo- trans*- phobic or prejudiced in other ways....and it doesn't suddenly make it alright to use those words.


* hissyfit is used to describe female anger over little things and issues. Its synonym is b***hfit

[RA89]

^ coded sexist language.*

The fact that most of the proletariat uses a word doesn't mean it isn't racist, sexist or homo- trans*- phobic or prejudiced in other ways....and it doesn't suddenly make it alright to use those words.


* hissyfit is used to describe female anger over little things and issues. Its synonym is b***hfit


his·sy
ˈhisē/
noun
an angry outburst or tantrum.
synonyms: temper tantrum, tantrum, angry outburst, fit of temper, paroxysm, paroxysm of rage, histrionics; More


fit
a : put into a suitable state : made ready <get the house fit for company>
b : being in such a state as to be or seem ready to do or suffer something <fair fit to cry I was — Bryan MacMahon> <laughing fit to burst>

my dictionary definitions > your urban dictionary definition based accusations

[RA89]

You don't have to dig that far, dude -- the gendered nature of the word is right on the surface. "Pussy" is simultaneously a colloquial word for vagina and weak/cowardly/passive people that is usually used against men. "Dick" is the same for male genetalia and also refers to someone's who's rude, bruqsue, mean, whatever. You don't think that's fairly surface-level? It's not as if we're digging up some archaic meanings for the words -- the meanings are shared in our language as it exists right now.

Well why is being weak/cowardly more worse than being called mean/rude? That's subjective.


Well, to be fair, the "guy who claims clearly sexist/racist thing isn't sexist/racist" is a classic breed of That Guy that usually ends up being a massive sexist/racist. So, that's why you got that reaction. Sorta like if you walked into a social situation and started a sentence with "I'm not racist, but..."
What about playing devil's advocate?
Even if I was genuinely sexist deep down or whatever shouldn't mean people throw abuse, better to address my points and discuss things in a civilised manner.

[MarcusJuniusBrutus]

With the word pussy is it not possible that people who say it do not intend to be sexist or to put down females but say it because the meaning has changed over time? Is it not often just a slang word to describe someone scared/weak etc?
Same way when someone is called a dick/prick/cock etc the person saying it isn't being sexist to men.
"Pussy" means weakness, a supposedly feminine attribute that is shameful for men to exhibit. It still means that. "Wuss" is a safe-for-television term that means the exact same thing.
Words referring to male anatomy usually refer to men who are being excessively masculine in one area--aggression, drive to succeed--while disregarding the masculine duty to help support others. Suggesting that a man is too selfish does not denigrate women by suggesting he is weak, nor does it undermine his masculinity per se. Also, as the socially dominant sex, any insult directed to men will be from the position of the socially inferior exercising agency against the superior. That is an important part of the dynamic.

[BIXX]

my dictionary definitions > your urban dictionary definition based accusations


Popular usage matters even more you cystic fuck-face.


Well why is being weak/cowardly more worse than being called mean/rude? That's subjective.

That's not the problem, it's that weakness and cowardice are associated with being a woman. You piece of shit.




What about playing devil's advocate?

Even if I was genuinely sexist deep down or whatever shouldn't mean people throw abuse, better to address my points and discuss things in a civilised manner.


Fuck being civilized. People say "let's be civilized" when they encounter rage because they can hide behind it, basically making people accept their bullshit opinions in the name of "civilization".

[PhoenixAsh]

my dictionary definitions > your urban dictionary definition based accusations

Urban dictionary? Have you checked the primary use of the term? No? Didn't think so.

Stop trying to be an idiot and defend the use of sexist language.

[#FF0000]

Well why is being weak/cowardly more worse than being called mean/rude? That's subjective.

It isn't that one is worse than the other. It's about what the words mean and what they're implying in regard to the role of women in society and the role of men. Obviously these words aren't the ultimate source of gender roles in society, but they pretty clearly reflect them, and like I said before, if one is seriously anti-sexist, then the consistent thing to do is to avoid gendered insults.


Even if I was genuinely sexist deep down or whatever shouldn't mean people throw abuse, better to address my points and discuss things in a civilised manner.

Well then let's discuss. There's no reason to keep bringing it up.

(people need to chill tho getting mad on the internet is never a good look)

[RA89]

"Pussy" means weakness, a supposedly feminine attribute that is shameful for men to exhibit. It still means that. "Wuss" is a safe-for-television term that means the exact same thing.
Words referring to male anatomy usually refer to men who are being excessively masculine in one area--aggression, drive to succeed--while disregarding the masculine duty to help support others. Suggesting that a man is too selfish does not denigrate women by suggesting he is weak, nor does it undermine his masculinity per se. Also, as the socially dominant sex, any insult directed to men will be from the position of the socially inferior exercising agency against the superior. That is an important part of the dynamic.

I've never heard of a male being called a dick/prick/cock to mean that he is driven to succeed. Usually means he is rude and intolerable etc.
Whilst that is definitely different to meaning weak/cowardly, I don't think it is neither worse nor better. Just 2 different insults.
I don't understand any positive connotations/meanings you are suggesting are behind male anatomy based insults.

[RA89]

Popular usage matters even more you cystic fuck-face.


That's not the problem, it's that weakness and cowardice are associated with being a woman. You piece of shit.


Fuck being civilized. People say "let's be civilized" when they encounter rage because they can hide behind it, basically making people accept their bullshit opinions in the name of "civilization".

No it means let's not have a yelling/cursing match. If you don't agree then refute points instead of embarrassing yourself by acting like a child shocked that someone disagrees with them.
Some people new to this shit will see this and think you're representative of feminists. You're letting the side down with your cringe-worthy outbursts.

[#FF0000]

I've never heard of a male being called a dick/prick/cock to mean that he is driven to succeed. Usually means he is rude and intolerable etc.

Yeah but that means they are imposing upon others. It's an active connotation as opposed to the passive connotation of "pussy". The reason this is being pointed out is because it reflects patriarchal gender roles in which men are typically the actors and women typically the acted upon. That's the problem with gendered insults and slurs.

[RA89]

It isn't that one is worse than the other. It's about what the words mean and what they're implying in regard to the role of women in society and the role of men. Obviously these words aren't the ultimate source of gender roles in society, but they pretty clearly reflect them, and like I said before, if one is seriously anti-sexist, then the consistent thing to do is to avoid gendered insults.



Well then let's discuss. There's no reason to keep bringing it up.

(people need to chill tho getting mad on the internet is never a good look)

Well if you're saying that they both should be used then fair play. I can see why they are both bad, but I don't see how one can be worse than the other regardless of where women are/have been in society.

I still believe that many people use the words with no intention of being sexist. If they're unaware of the history behind the word (or the literal meaning), and they're using it to mean something else (e.g. pussy to mean wimp) with no thought to it's original root meaning (female anatomy), do you think they are being sexist? Or unknowingly sexist?

[RA89]

Yeah but that means they are imposing upon others. It's an active connotation as opposed to the passive connotation of "pussy". The reason this is being pointed out is because it reflects patriarchal gender roles in which men are typically the actors and women typically the acted upon. That's the problem with gendered insults and slurs.

Well ***** can mean rude/spiteful woman and that is a very active connotation so does that make it better than pussy?

edit: censored word is female dog

edit: P.S if you all agree that what I am saying is hateful, ban worthy and I'm upsetting people then let me know and I'll leave this discussion as I don't want a ban, main reason I'm on this site is to learn about communism I only pop into this forum because I'm curious.

[#FF0000]

I still believe that many people use the words with no intention of being sexist. If they're unaware of the history behind the word (or the literal meaning), and they're using it to mean something else (e.g. pussy to mean wimp) with no thought to it's original root meaning (female anatomy), do you think they are being sexist? Or unknowingly sexist?

The thing about communication is that intent matters a whole lot of not at all. I don't think a lot of people think of whether or not the words they use are sexist because we're brought up in a society in which these things are the norm. We use words that play a part in reifying/reinforcing (second time ever using the word "reify", hooray) existing social relationships, and so of course, most people don't really think about it the same way we don't usually think about breathing. So, yeah the terms are still sexist, even though the person using them may not be conscious of it.


Well ***** can mean rude/spiteful woman and that is a very active connotation so does that make it better than pussy?

Again, it's not about what words are worse than others. Plus, that particular word has very different connotations depending on who it's being applied to. For men, it also implies cowardice and used as a verb it means to whine or complain. So, yeah, there's hella baggage with that one as well.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I still believe that many people use the words with no intention of being sexist. If they're unaware of the history behind the word (or the literal meaning), and they're using it to mean something else (e.g. pussy to mean wimp) with no thought to it's original root meaning (female anatomy), do you think they are being sexist? Or unknowingly sexist?

My adjective of choice has been "crazy" for a long time. I'd never consider calling someone with mental illness "crazy" so I never connected that it might be insulting. To me crazy = wild, not mental conditions. But someone called me out, in a polite way, once and now I try and modify my use and say "wild" or "absurd" instead. Sometimes I slip, but I try and catch it. Honestly it is such not a big deal to realize you said something with a connotation you didn't know about and then adjust out of common fucking courtesy and empathy to people who might find it insulting or degrading.

I think we need to get better at calling people out in non judgemental or moralizing ways, but often pushback on this is from the perspective that "my ability to say, 'that's so gay' is more important than gay people not feeling threatened and marginalized" which is just bullshit and different than people jut not realizing that "gyped" is a slur against "thieving Roma" or "girls" degrades adult women.

[tachosomoza]

Middle Eastern men also discriminate if not more. Heck, even AFRICANS had African slaves. Discriminating isn't just a white male thing. We also discriminate.

...ban.

[Dagoth Ur]

On the one hand being too "politically correct" has led more than one Leftist to become incomprehensible to the People. If you cannot get your message across in normal ways it has no chance to gain traction and change minds. Without effective propaganda you are hurting your own movement.

On the other hand most who are so concerned with the creeping rise of "political correctness" are most often those who simply want to blame the unpopularity of their ideas on some liberal conspiracy.

[synthesis]

What do people think of, for example, the use of the word "pussy" to describe guys who go on and on about being "nice guys" and getting "friend-zoned"? I mean, it's obviously sexist and gendered and all of that but does it capture some of the envy of the (perceived) masculinity of others that guys like that always harbor? Like, "the problem isn't that you're a 'nice guy', it's that you're a pussy." Is that as bad as using the term to describe a guy who is afraid of spiders or heights or whatever? (Acrophobic, right here.)

I'm not trying to make a case for an "appropriate" use of the term. I don't think at all that it should be tossed around carelessly. My only point here is that I'm interested in discussing degrees of acceptability with regards to gendered language. Could the above example be considered a "lesser evil" if the term can be successfully used to challenge the "nice guy" mentality? Or does the reinforcement of gender norms make its utilization entirely counter-productive?

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Two words - con text.
Having said that, I'm generally in favour of PC in all it's potentially irritating guises because the alternative is, and at one point was, more than just irritating, it was degrading and cruel.
If I'm presented with a choice between PC and non-PC, I'll go with PC. But context is still very important.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Stories like this one are often associated with left-wing thinking / attitudes and help fuel the idea that we whine about the smallest things -

Calling teachers Sir and Miss 'depressing and sexist'
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27403902)

Now, I get what Prof Coates is saying but seems a bit 'tempest in teacup', no?

[PhoenixAsh]

I still believe that many people use the words with no intention of being sexist. If they're unaware of the history behind the word (or the literal meaning), and they're using it to mean something else (e.g. pussy to mean wimp) with no thought to it's original root meaning (female anatomy), do you think they are being sexist? Or unknowingly sexist?

Really? So if I am not consciously using the word as a derogative slur it isn't racist, sexist, homophobic or prejudiced?

Yes they are being sexist....apparently it is second nature to them.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Did you ever stop to think maybe the black kid your coach made fun of does not want to be made fun of in such a racist way but goes ahead and laughs anyway because a person in authority is telling a joke and everybody else is laughing at it? What is he supposed to do? Stand up against a teacher for a joke when he's clearly not going to get any back up from his peers who were laughing at the racist jokes? And risk social alienation in a town that's 90% white who apparently have no problem cracking racist jokes and would probably attack him for being too PC if he did(I mean if the "communist" or Soc Dem whatever you call yourself OP is complaining about PC you think the majority conservatives are going to give a shit)? Why were you laughing if you felt it was tinged with racism and you live in a town you know is reactionary as fuck? I would have felt uncomfortable laughing. When I went to highschool there was this douche who was part of the larger group I hung out with who said some racist joke about a black friend and he laughed along with it because others laughed but when it was just him, me, and another friend he told us that it pissed him off and that if he talks anymore shit he was going to say something and asked for us to back him. Point being you really don't know what is going through his head, especially if he's the only black guy in a sea of reactionary racist white people.

Not that it's never ok to say racist jokes IMO, context matters. For example my brother in law is an undocumented immigrant from Mexico and we make jokes all the time at each other. I was mowing my sisters lawn a few weeks ago when he drove up,"aye what are you doing white boy, you trying to steal my job!?" :lol: Or when my sister got pregnant I made an anchor baby joke to him. We know each other though and we're more making fun of racist conservative caricatures, not making fun of each other. But I would never say those jokes around a crowd of reactionary people because their laughter would just cause embarrassment to him because they're laughing at him, not at the stupidity that is racism.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What do people think of, for example, the use of the word "pussy" to describe guys who go on and on about being "nice guys" and getting "friend-zoned"? I mean, it's obviously sexist and gendered and all of that but does it capture some of the envy of the (perceived) masculinity of others that guys like that always harbor? Like, "the problem isn't that you're a 'nice guy', it's that you're a pussy." Is that as bad as using the term to describe a guy who is afraid of spiders or heights or whatever? (Acrophobic, right here.)

I'm not trying to make a case for an "appropriate" use of the term. I don't think at all that it should be tossed around carelessly. My only point here is that I'm interested in discussing degrees of acceptability with regards to gendered language. Could the above example be considered a "lesser evil" if the term can be successfully used to challenge the "nice guy" mentality? Or does the reinforcement of gender norms make its utilization entirely counter-productive?

I don't see how that would be considered better, it's actually a LOT worse. Someone says I'm a pussy for being afraid of spiders and that's like a whatever comment, easily brushed off. Oh I'm not a man because spiders are creepy, haha, whatever, that's stupid. You're talking about telling guys they're not being masculine enough to get a girlfriend which is a thousand times more serious to men than the fear of heights and only further ingrains into people pussy=women=weakness, I need to be more of a tough macho man if I want girls to love me.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Stories like this one are often associated with left-wing thinking / attitudes and help fuel the idea that we whine about the smallest things -

Calling teachers Sir and Miss 'depressing and sexist'
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27403902)

Now, I get what Prof Coates is saying but seems a bit 'tempest in teacup', no?

I think the issue with the Sir/Miss dichotomy is that, within the social context of a school, it actually doesn't exist.

In wider society, the connotation of automatically calling a man 'Sir' and a woman 'Miss' clearly holds connotations of sexism and patriarchy. But in a school you will find that the actual base meaning of the language has changed so that 'Sir' and 'Miss' are equal, but gender specific, signs of deference and respect displayed by a student towards a teacher. In that sense, their usage shows that language evolves according to social context - I can absolutely guarantee that, correcting for some bias' (it is well known that some boys from patriarchal upbringings respect female teachers less than male teachers), the usage of 'Sir' and 'Miss' in schools does not reflect a patriarchal attitude - conscious or subconscious - on the part of students or teachers.

[Redistribute the Rep]

my dictionary definitions > your urban dictionary definition based accusations

I assume "hissy" is a contraction of the word hysterical, the root "hyst" meaning uterus, as it was believed hysteria was due to women's biology. So it would seem that it is in fact gendered.

My knowledge of etymology > your ignorant lack of research

[consuming negativity]

Stories like this one are often associated with left-wing thinking / attitudes and help fuel the idea that we whine about the smallest things -

Calling teachers Sir and Miss 'depressing and sexist'
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27403902)

Now, I get what Prof Coates is saying but seems a bit 'tempest in teacup', no?

This could just be my being American, but... Sir and Miss are not equivalent titles. Ma'am is the female equivalent of Sir, not Miss. Miss is the equivalent of Mister. Read the comments of the teacher who "agreed" that they're equivalent... she never said anything about the equivalency. She just said that being called Miss was a title and a show of respect, which it is; but not on the same level of Sir or Ma'am. The teacher complaining is correct, and the article shows bias against her side of the story by quoting the other teacher out of context.

[Kaoxic]

I fucking hate the term "politically correct". When people complain about political correctness what they usually are compllaining about is "thoughtfulness" .