[Triggers] Socialist Justice Party sexual assault scandal [Archive]

Hrafn

10th May 2014, 19:03

[Trigger warnings for sexual violence abound. Take heed.]

I am posting this here due to the previous intense discussions that have been had this year and last year regarding the rape scandal that hit the Socialist Workers Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_%28UK%29), a British "Cliffite" Trotskyist party (associated with the International Socialist Tendency) which suffered a large internal and external crisis when allegations regarding the sexual assault of a young female member by a senior party official. The leadership was accused of not only handling the case very poorly, but also of protecting "Comrade Delta" and engaging in large-scale rape apologism. As a result of the crisis, there were some pretty major splits and a fairly large part of the organization's members left. A very similar case no doubt deserves to be discussed.

I am also posting this here due to the ample debate that has taken place, regarding sexual abuse and sexism within the left, on Revleft - for example here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/sexual-abuse-left-t187802/index.html) recently. I maybe should've posted it in the women's struggles forum, but I feel that it may receive more attention here, as WS tends to be sadly ignored.

The following text was posted yesterday on the Facebook page "Take back the welfare!" (Ta tillbaka välfärden! (https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakavalfarden)), a left-wing page with a very narrow name yet an absurdly wide range, dealing with many topics. The text concerns the Socialist Justice Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Justice_Party), the largest Trotskyist organization in Sweden and a branch of the Committee for a Workers' International. More specifically, the Gothenburg branch of it. I have taken the liberty of translating the text from Swedish to English. The original in Swedish can be found here (https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakavalfarden/posts/10152103179452076). The party's Swedish acronym, RS, has been kept. Please excuse any textual mistakes, of which I hope there are few, and please feel free to correct me if I have misinterpreted something. I have tried to represent the meanings of idioms and such the best I can. Apologies for the stilted language.

We first of all want to trigger warn this post. We have prior to this talked with the survivor directly, and with people close to them.

We have ensured that what we do does not go against the survivor's wishes or in any other way may lead to them being the subject of the discussion.

There is no police report, that isn't up to us or anyone else but the survivor. Neither have we done this to smear any person or people.

RS has had several chances to solve this internally, but instead they have chosen to act just like their English "comrades" and protected rapists. Therefore the outing of a sexist follows below.

A person who has been given space to speak at wide left-wing protests and has acted as the outwards face for the asylum rights movement in Gothenburg.

We want to explain why we are doing this. Sexism is not okay. Rapes are serious. Survivors are subjected to abuse, harassment and violence after the fact.

Testimony.
"In the Spring of 2013 I had sex with Stefan Berg. It started with both of us wanting to do it and he had followed me home. During the intercourse Stefan did things I didn't want him to do. I was very clear with that I wanted him to stop. I tried to physically make him stop and then he held me down while I was trying to get away. Afterwards I laid there and cried while he laid and slept in my bed.

Despite that this was a rape it has taken a good while for me to realize that it was just that. While I have been going around feeling bad about this I have heard testimonies from other women who have experienced similar things when having sex with Stefan.

The reason why I haven't gone to the police is that I know it would end with him going free anyway. It took me a year to realize that I had been subjected to a rape. I wouldn't be able to endure a process where I constantly would be mistrusted.

But I still want for this to come out. Because this is something that is recurrent for Stefan Berg and now I have finally reached a point where I am so fucking angry. This kind of men shouldn't walk around and outwardly be seen as feminists while at the same time they have repeatedly committed sexual assault towards women."

According to a person with insight into RS: "Stefan has previously been accused of rape. Several leading members of RS Gothenburg knew of the accusations."

---

Stefan Berg, member of RS Gothenburg, is hereby accused of rape. This is not the first time that he has been accused of this and rumours have been flourishing within the movement for some time.

RS' response to the accusations has been to defend the rapist and now a survivor has stepped forward to us and told us about what he has done to them. Rape.

Considering that we have had this confirmed by a reliable source and can verify the story through other people we take this as a fact. Thus we also have to take everyone else who has accused him seriously as well.

This CANNOT be swept under the rug, or be blamed elsewhere! WARNING FOR RAPIST.
Today, the following piece was added as well (link (https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakavalfarden/posts/10152104775847076) to original in Swedish):

From a former member of RS:

"Regarding the Socialist Justice Party's handling of rape accusations against Stefan Berg. There are now several women who are former members of RS who have been called up by leading members of the party and been asked if they're the victim of the rape. You have no damn right to try and find out the identity of a person that has explicitly said that they want to be anonymous. Investigate the rapist and the fact that the party has been covering up previous rape allegations instead of going after a victim. You can't have respect for an organization that is acting this way."

Do you want to read about Stefan Berg and the rape? https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakav...52103179452076 (https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakavalfarden/posts/10152103179452076)

There has been quite a lot of outrage in the comments section of these posts. I've seen several people talk about cancelling their subscription to RS' weekly newspaper, and in more private venues I have - if I'm going to be honest - seen a few cases of RS members either stating their departure or talking about leaving.

_________

Some context.

The Socialist Justice Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Justice_Party) (RS, Rättvisepartiet Socialisterna, formerly Arbetarförbundet Offensiv) is the largest Trotskyist grouping in the country. It was formed as an entryist group in the Swedish Social Democratic Youth League, inspired by and connected to certain Militants in the UK, in 1973. Decades later the policy of entryism was abandoned, and the independent Socialist Justice Party was formed. It has been, by Swedish standards, relatively successful. It often focuses on participating, using various front organizations and joining other groups, in anti-racism, anti-sexism, LGBT struggles, and so on. After suffering a split it in 2010 (one of several prior to it) it secured five municipal council seats in north-eastern Sweden the same year, and 1507 votes in the parliamentary elections.

RS is also one of the most controversial groups in the Swedish workers' movement, most likely the most. I'm going to try not to go into detail, but in my personal view - and that of many others - their behaviour has frequently been deeply problematic, exhibiting vast opportunism when engaging with the rest of the left, and suffering vast problems with the internal democratic system, among other issues. But don't take my word for it.

A member of the Committee for a Workers' International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_a_Workers%27_International) and highly active with its foreign connections, there are several members that are on Revleft.

_________

Stefan Berg is a prominent member of RS Gothenburg, the party branch in the country's second largest city and vastly important to the wider party network. I am not aware of his current positions, but in 2011 (https://rsgoteborg.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/rs-goteborg-stefan-berg-vald-som-ny-ordforande/) he was elected Chairman of RS Gothenburg, and according to this (http://www.expressen.se/gt/manifestation-till-stod-startar-i-goteborg/) recent interview (March 2014) he still got the job. He has been prominent in, as mentioned, the asylum rights movement, and is involved in some court cases - for example, last Spring a policeman was convicted for having driven over three kilometres with Stefan clinging onto the hood of his car, and this February Stefan himself was sentenced (http://www.goteborgsfria.se/artikel/113515) to a fine for standing in the way of said car, during a blockade of the attempted deportation of an Afghani refugee. For this he has been the target in several articles written by the far-right.

I spent a minute googling, and in this (https://rsgoteborg.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/kvinnokamp-for-rattvisa-3/) RS report from a women's struggles meeting held by the party there's an interesting quote.

Stefan Berg stressed the importance of concrete demands, but also pointed out that struggle is that which will bring the resistance against the sexual violence onto the agenda:

"RS puts forward demands on better lighting in for example park areas, and on feminist self-defence being made part of education, but it is through organizing in among other places schools that feminists can make a difference. As always the matter lays in our own hands, not in the politicians' or the police's."

How interesting.

http://socialistboras.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/stefancwi.jpg

http://rsgoteborg.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/stef.jpg

Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist

11th May 2014, 00:53

The sad thing is how common these incidents are on the left, like is this the 4th one this year?

QueerVanguard

11th May 2014, 03:19

PhoenixAsh

11th May 2014, 03:59

Ironically the link you posted to the women's struggle meeting is a meeting held in response to recent rapes and an increase of violence against women in the area where the meeting was held which is further linked below the text.

I haven't been able to find any official or unofficial RS statement on the matter, but that isn't surprising considering the time frame of the FB post.

Personally I like to know very much who this was reported to and who is responsible for sweeping this under the rug. Any information on that?

Prometeo liberado

11th May 2014, 05:41

This is the kind of shit that happens when you let these self-absorbed, sexist white male turds head parties. How nice of him to stand up for the rights of POCs, couldn't have anything to do with him subscribing to the White man's burden or anything-- mister messiah of we completely helpless POCs..... Seriously, when is the left going to learn from the past and start charging our parties to conform to that history?? Like I'm genuinely scared of joining any party these days because I fear some pig like that assaulting me just because he has the idea he's entitled to my body.

I didn't know being white predisposed one to sexual assault on people.

The big question is why are we surprised by this? Rarely does the left, right or center eschew cultural norms for party doctrine. The difference should be how we handle it and those we've entrusted with leadership positions.

QueerVanguard

11th May 2014, 05:47

I didn't know being white predisposed one to sexual assault on people.

In a way it does because of White male privilege. They have a subconscious belief they are entitled to women's bodies and POC subordination

CyM

11th May 2014, 06:13

Rape culture is not a white issue, making it so is apologism for rape in our cultures.

I've heard this story before "what do you mean, there are problems with the Saudi government? But look over there! ISRAEL!".

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Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist

11th May 2014, 06:34

Rape culture is not a white issue, making it so is apologism for rape in our cultures. Whiteness in the left does need to be approached but it's correct to point out that although white supremacy and racism are intertwined it isn't very helpful to simply say "white people" and pretend you've constructed a coherent argument. However it would be helpful if this point was expanded upon theoretically instead of thrown about as a useless talking point

Additionally it's important to consider context in racial composition. Affirmative action and tokenization are never appropriate tools, if an organization does not reflect the ethnic composition of the class and it's most advanced layers then it is not a class party and can not change its nature through formal procedure. This being said, in a country such as Norway and Sweden where to my knowledge the immigrant population is less than 10% of the total population (I am basing that number off memory, feel free to correct me) then it is perfectly reasonable that an organization in that area would be composed of largely white people. However in America for example where white supremacy and the imperialist system that supports it ties the white population to the interests of capital, and where the majority of proletarians are of oppressed communities, any organization which is not composed of at least a significant minority if not a majority of oppressed nationalities can not possibly be a communist party. Of course each locality has different demographics but the general principle that the party should reflect the class holds. For example, I work with an organization who roots lie in the Bronx and in all 30 members of our branch I am the only white person, while another organization's branch in my state who I will not name due to the fact that membership numbers were confided in me in confidence, consists of 3 people at the local ivy university and 2 people at the local public school who are entirely white.

I've heard this story before "what do you mean, there are problems with the Saudi government? But look over there! ISRAEL!".
Must we make this one of those threads?

CyM

11th May 2014, 06:36

I'm sorry, I've just had enough of white people telling me we need to talk more about whiteness.

I'll stop, but there are some things we should be able to discuss without white people becoming the topic.

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CyM

11th May 2014, 06:38

Also, I'm running a high fever, so that will be my last post for a few days, because I'm sure I will be cranky and possibly unfair.

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Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist

11th May 2014, 06:46

Well if you insist on stopping then I won't haggle you further, though if you had no intention of replying then perhaps it wasn't the best idea to post here in the first place

Edit to avoid unnecessary bump:

Eh, there was another point I was going to make but I'll wait till your lucid before I do so, come back if you feel like it

CyM

11th May 2014, 06:48

Well if you insist on stopping then I won't haggle you further, though if you had no intention of replying then perhaps it wasn't the best idea to post here in the first place

Yes, it was irresponsible of me. I should have treated it as being impaired. I don't post when drunk, shouldn't post with a fever :p

Feel free to reply, I just won't reply back till I'm sure I will be rational. But I will reply then.

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QueerVanguard

11th May 2014, 07:11

I'm sorry, I've just had enough of white people telling me we need to talk more about whiteness.

I know you're not referring to me because I sure as fuck am not White

Hrafn

11th May 2014, 07:55

Originally Posted by PhoenixAsh http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2749478#post2749478)

Ironically the link you posted to the women's struggle meeting is a meeting held in response to recent rapes and an increase of violence against women in the area where the meeting was held which is further linked below the text.

I haven't been able to find any official or unofficial RS statement on the matter, but that isn't surprising considering the time frame of the FB post.

Personally I like to know very much who this was reported to and who is responsible for sweeping this under the rug. Any information on that?
Quite ironically, yes. You'll see more of that later.

To my knowledge, there has been the following reactions from RS: All attempts to post the incriminating text on their various Facebook pages have been deleted. Secondly, there was a more or less unofficial statement, a comment on the original text signed by a RS Gothenburg member stating that the party had no knowledge of this, and would be investigating. The comment has, somewhere between yesterday and now, been removed. Finally, of course, the lovely "let's call around and try and find out who got raped" act.

As for people being responsible... I don't want to name my source or provide the text, as I don't have express permission to do that, but I've been shown a statement confirming that two leading RS members knew about this, and actively tried to cover it up by telling members not to tell anyone about the events, and encouraging members not to talk to the victim - and also delete them from Facebook. Amer Mohammed Ali and Kristofer Lundberg. Both are very prominent RS members - below is what, to my knowledge, their positions are.

They are both "full-timers", in other words professional revolutionaries employed by the Socialist Justice Party. "Full-timers" are frequently described internally as the most trusted cadres, they are deployed around the country to solve issues - help with recruitment, increase morale, up the newspaper sales, participate in local protests, and so on. A very large percentage of all the thousands of crowns that the party collects from membership dues, newspaper sales, donations, and so on go to the "full-timer" payrolls.

Amer Mohammed Ali is a member of the Gothenberg AU, arbetsutskott. The translation I've found for this is "executive sub-committee", the direct translation would be "work committee". He is also on the local party executive. He has been seen on national TV being interviewed once or twice, and has had numerous encounters with the law in regard to the asylum rights movement, and with Nazis (a few years back it seems he got his nose broken by some, among other events). Convicted in 2012 of not obeying the authorities, re: the asylum movement.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gK40bOWuHkk/T5QneOhYHQI/AAAAAAAAASM/B4CGhka9R3k/s640/Amer-Mohammed-Ali.jpg

http://rsgoteborg.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/084.jpg?w=450&h=300

Kristofer Lundberg is the former Chairman of RS Gothenburg (the position now held by Stefan Berg, the alleged rapist), and current Chairman of RS West Sweden, the overall regional branch. He is a member of the overall RS executive committee, it would seem, and otherwise holds the same positions as Amer. He has been in debates on state TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5iilDGpm6c), and can be seen at the forefront in basically every RS Gothenburg-involving cause. A former northerner, in 2003 he was named "Piteå (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pite%C3%A5) Inhabitant of the Year" for his anti-Fascism. Like Amer and Stefan he has been sentenced to a fine for his involvement in the asylum rights movement. Reportedly, some Party of the Swedes Nazis tried to run him over in 2012.

http://a.cdn-expressen.se/ImageHandler.axd?guid=eb6b59ae-e09c-7ae2-e892-fdfc3e229276&imageFormat=secondColumn

http://rspitea.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/krillekongresss.jpg?w=490

"She was threatened and intimidated to silence. But the rest can't be denied.", a May 2 tweet (https://twitter.com/AmerMohammedAli) by Amer that defended the allegations of rape brought forward against a member of the Sweden Democrats.

Hrafn

11th May 2014, 08:25

The sad thing is how common these incidents are on the left, like is this the 4th one this year?

Extremely sad. :crying:

The big question is why are we surprised by this? Rarely does the left, right or center eschew cultural norms for party doctrine. The difference should be how we handle it and those we've entrusted with leadership positions.

Sadly, I was not surprised in the least. I felt a strong distaste, and a desire to ensure that those responsible do not come off scot-free.

Additionally it's important to consider context in racial composition. Affirmative action and tokenization are never appropriate tools, if an organization does not reflect the ethnic composition of the class and it's most advanced layers then it is not a class party and can not change its nature through formal procedure. This being said, in a country such as Norway and Sweden where to my knowledge the immigrant population is less than 10% of the total population (I am basing that number off memory, feel free to correct me) then it is perfectly reasonable that an organization in that area would be composed of largely white people. However in America for example where white supremacy and the imperialist system that supports it ties the white population to the interests of capital, and where the majority of proletarians are of oppressed communities, any organization which is not composed of at least a significant minority if not a majority of oppressed nationalities can not possibly be a communist party. Of course each locality has different demographics but the general principle that the party should reflect the class holds. For example, I work with an organization who roots lie in the Bronx and in all 30 members of our branch I am the only white person, while another organization's branch in my state who I will not name due to the fact that membership numbers were confided in me in confidence, consists of 3 people at the local ivy university and 2 people at the local public school who are entirely white.

It's a complicated issue. Sweden has a population of roughly 9.64 million. Of those, 19.6% had a foreign background in 2011 (defined as one or two parents born abroad). That does not count in the third generation immigrants, nor the recognized ethnic minorities (Jews, Roma, Sami). Of course a lot of said foreigners are from neighbouring Scandinavian countries and other Western ones.

I don't have recent stats, but in 2005 Gothenburg - the second largest city - had a 22% immigrant population, of which out of which 10% were from Iran, 9% from Iraq and 7% from Finland. Additionally, RS Gothenburg is very heavily involved in organizing in the suburbs, in the Million Programme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Programme), where the statistics are far higher. Almost all the local party subdivisions are based in one or several of these suburbs, and the party has a distinct fondness for organizing the disenfranchised and racialized. However, while there are some high-ranking members of "foreign" origin - such as the above mentioned Amer - it would appear to me that the vast majority of the party structure is Swedish.

Hrafn

11th May 2014, 21:12

If anyone has any questions regarding anything, I'd be happy to answer, by the way.

Comrade Jacob

11th May 2014, 21:15

What is with the left and rape and rape apology because they are "comrades"? Fuck them they are no comrades of mine.

Thirsty Crow

11th May 2014, 21:32

What is with the left and rape and rape apology because they are "comrades"? Fuck them they are no comrades of mine.
When you first let the central organ function not as a coordinating body but as the source of politics and activity, and then let specific individuals entrench their position in it in a kind of a cliquish way (not only "kind of" though), and considering the fact that positions of power in such bodies offer some quite tangible advantages - this is what can happen.

PhoenixAsh

11th May 2014, 21:43

(the position now held by Stefan X, the alleged rapist)

I think we are way beyond alleged here.

When such accusations are made public as fact there is no coming back from that...and using alleged towards him would require the addition of alleged to the victim. Saying there is a victim implies there is a culprit and there is nothing alleged about it anymore unless they want to keep their options open and say there was a possible mistaken identity...which would have required them to not make the allegations public in such a manner. If you out somebody you better be damned sure. There is no middle ground....you can't rape somebody just a little bit.

But thank you for the info. We will wait for the statements and actions from RS. Their calling women to inquire about them being raped is despicable beyond words. If you want to have a conversation with the victim you ask for them to contact you.

Hrafn

11th May 2014, 22:02

Apologies if the wording came off sounding that way. My English isn't the best.

Hrafn

11th May 2014, 23:22

I see the thread has been moved. Oh well. I posted it in Politics partially because Women's Struggle is a seldom used forum - but primarily because the SWP "Comrade Delta" case appears to have been discussed there, not here.

Sasha

12th May 2014, 01:05

CyM

12th May 2014, 03:26

I think we are way beyond alleged here.

When such accusations are made public as fact there is no coming back from that...and using alleged towards him would require the addition of alleged to the victim. Saying there is a victim implies there is a culprit and there is nothing alleged about it anymore unless they want to keep their options open and say there was a possible mistaken identity...which would have required them to not make the allegations public in such a manner. If you out somebody you better be damned sure. There is no middle ground....you can't rape somebody just a little bit.

But thank you for the info. We will wait for the statements and actions from RS. Their calling women to inquire about them being raped is despicable beyond words. If you want to have a conversation with the victim you ask for them to contact you.

While this is a touchy area, and needs to be approached with the utmost respect and care, I think it is not correct to say the party should not be asking or enquiring about the allegations. This is a serious matter, and not investigating it is far more disgusting than attempting to contact the people making the accusations.

We expect from a revolutionary organization that they will look into the allegations, not ignore them, so we can't have it both ways.

I don't know how their party is handling this, but I think we should be fair. Contacting the people making the allegations would be the first step if that hasn't happened yet.

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PhoenixAsh

12th May 2014, 03:52

It isn't calling the people who make the accusations. It is calling random women asking if they are the ones that got raped:

There are now several women who are former members of RS who have been called up by leading members of the party and been asked if they're the victim of the rape.

I can understand them wanting to talk to the victim(s) but you do that by contacting the ones posting the accusation and asking the victim to contact you. You don't go calling random women to inquire if they are the one who got raped.

CyM

12th May 2014, 03:58

It isn't calling the people who make the accusations. It is calling random women asking if they are the ones that got raped:

I can understand them wanting to talk to the victim(s) but you do that by contacting the ones posting the accusation and asking the victim to contact you. You don't go calling random women to inquire if they are the one who got raped.

Yeah, you're right, that's fucked up. But that does contradict the idea that they knew about this, doesn't it? I mean, why call people in a panic trying to find out who it is, if they've already approached you?

Anyways, I'll wait for more information.

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PhoenixAsh

12th May 2014, 04:22

Might be that one or two knew and the rest didn't. Which would be mitigating for RS.

Hrafn

12th May 2014, 09:15

Admin note:
i wasnt involved with the choice of moving this thread, i think it can fit in either sub-forum and its a very important thread with serious implications for a big leftist political party, as such I changed the redirect in the politics subforum from a "expiring" to a "permanent" redirect.
I am however, for now, removing the last names and photo's of the accused in line with Revlefts board rules on not posting personalia and photo's of fellow leftists. If, over the coming days/weeks, it becomes clear there is merit to these accusations, both regarding the rape and the cover-up we will obviously reconsider this as protecting females in our movement from sexual assault takes priority from protecting the accused from the state, press or fash.

full disclosure, while i did discuss this thread with a fellow admin (sentinel) who is a ranking member of the party in question this was mine, and only mine, administrative decision.
I don't want to speak for Sentinel but since he is away out of the country for his work I do want assure people that he is very shocked by this and is taking the accusations very seriously and is trying, while in a handicapped position, to find out what is up and will try to post in person here as soon as is possible. I hope people will give him, and his fellow SJP/RS members here some time to articulate their thoughts and positions on this case, they are not taking it lightly they assured me.

I am quite disturbed by this.

It should be very clear by now that there is merit to these accusations. A survivor has come forward, and their story has been verified by several independent people. Allegations of prior cases have also been verified. A number of people, people who I trust, have confirmed and verified the accusations of a cover-up by certain high-ranking members. I am not sure what more evidence there can possibly be beyond the testimonies of trusted comrades - there won't be any confessions, or criminal investigation.

I certainly do hope the members of RS are taking is seriously.

While this is a touchy area, and needs to be approached with the utmost respect and care, I think it is not correct to say the party should not be asking or enquiring about the allegations. This is a serious matter, and not investigating it is far more disgusting than attempting to contact the people making the accusations.

We expect from a revolutionary organization that they will look into the allegations, not ignore them, so we can't have it both ways.

I don't know how their party is handling this, but I think we should be fair. Contacting the people making the allegations would be the first step if that hasn't happened yet.

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If they wanted to be in contact with the survivor, they would publicly ask to be contacted. They would not harass a whole slew of people who have left the party whether they're the person who wanted to be anonymous or not. That's highly, highly questionable behaviour.

Yeah, you're right, that's fucked up. But that does contradict the idea that they knew about this, doesn't it? I mean, why call people in a panic trying to find out who it is, if they've already approached you?

Anyways, I'll wait for more information.

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Not necessarily. The local Chairman Stefan "X" is the rapist, while the regional Chairman Kristofer "X" and one of the party's most prominent activists Amer "X" have been covering up, presumably other people too. Testimonies that these people had a policy of trying to discredit and exclude the survivor have come forward. I would argue that any attempt by the RS Gothenburg leadership to find out the survivor's identity would be a way to show that they're not guilty after all, since they didn't know the identity and they were trying to do something about it.

Sasha

12th May 2014, 09:32

I think its obvious that I think there is merit to this, that's why I didnt remove the external links where the photos and full names still can be found, I do have, so far just your posts and anonymous internet posts.
And like others said, while despicable behaviour the fact that RS cadre is calling random women does at least point to the fact they (the people calling) are not working with Stefan to cover this up, if this is true I assume that this Stefan knows who is accusing him (unless he is a serious serial rapist and this was a weekly ocurance for him).

Hrafn

12th May 2014, 09:33

Here's some stuff from the comments sections on the two Facebook posts I linked in the initial post. Again, translated - take care that no errors skip through, you may want to go there and see for yourself.

Leo "X"
I am a member of RS myself and this makes me deeply disturbed, is the any other source but you regarding RS misbehaving and protecting this rapist? I will of course bring this up with my party comrades and in case it is so that RS actually has been trying to cover up sexual abuse and refuse to expel a rapist I will naturally leave the party, but I'd like to read about it from somewhere else too, and above all read what statements RS have made about this.

Take back the welfare!
There are several sources. Among lthers several people are pointing out two individuals in the Gothenburg executive sub-committee who are covering up the rape charges. If you want names, send a PM.

Take back the welfare!
Leo: It isn't "we" that are the source to the allegations. Read the original post.

Take back the welfare!
RS Gothenburg has been accused internally by several people. It is only now when we publish these charges that they have begun their "investigation".

Then this that you imply that we would lie about several testimonies from diferent people is a serious accusation.

Earlier, in response to much the same defence put forward in RS' case as above in this thread:

It is completely fucking irrelevant who they are and it is quite simply disgusting at they are trying to identity who this is. Because absolutely, you're right - RS aren't cops, and then maybe they should stop acting like it.

This is by the way not the first time this issue comes up. I can CONFIRM this because I was a member of RS at the time of another incident being covered up and ignored for close to four years ago. So if RS wants to get to the bottom of is maybe they should start within their own ranks, eh?

It should be added that this concerns a few individuals in RS West - not the party as a whole.

Hrafn

12th May 2014, 09:35

Sasha

12th May 2014, 21:30

admin note; fixed the formatting in the OP, apparently the board software made a mess of it again when i removed the pictures/last names

PhoenixAsh

12th May 2014, 21:43

Is there an update?

Hrafn

12th May 2014, 21:56

Is there an update?

Not to my knowledge. The Socialist Justice Party members have remained equally silent as they have been here. A debate has started on the largest left-wing forum in Sweden (socialism.nu, where I don't have an account), but no RS members have gotten involved yet and it's mainly about hierarchical structures and overall sexual abuse in the Swedish left, from what I can see. Little new on Facebook.

I think we all await further moves by RS.

Sentinel

13th May 2014, 16:15

Firstly, as stated by Sasha I am currently working at sea. I am not going to debate this issue here before I come home from work and have had a chance to form an as complete as possible picture of both what happened, and how the party has acted in response.

This said; I have personally been absolutely chocked and devastated by this scandal. Sexual violence and rape are totally unacceptable, and attempts to cover such up can never be tolerated to any extent.

I belong to a different branch and district, but know both those accused and those that have posted the accusations of coverup on fb well enough from national level events, meetings and activies. All of them are people I would have trusted with my life so this is an extremely difficult, confusing and painful situation.

What I can assure the community here right now is that I had never heard any such allegations before; not the vaguest of rumours. Other comrades from Stockholm I have talked with on the phone have been equally shocked.

I am expecting the organisation to go to the bottom with this issue, to find out the truth in an appropriate fashion and to act as necessary to ensure a safe environment for female comrades. Everyone I have had the chance to talk to have agreed, and I have been assured that this will happen, but will not be satisfied before I know for sure.

This all I have to say for now; I choose to wait until I am on the ground before commenting further and am comradely asking users to respect this.

Hrafn

13th May 2014, 17:16

I respect you on that one, Sentinel. Of course you should have time to get everything together for properly commenting. When you say you didn't knew about the situation, I'm also inclined to believe your sincerity. The rest of your comrades, maybe not so much.

I, personally, doubt that the party will get to the bottom of this, no matter how many internal investigations are done. I believe in the accusations, due to the amount of independent witnesses that have testified to them, and I believe that if the party was to handle the issue properly - by expelling everyone involved - the Western Swedish branch would collapse. I'm not sure RS is willing to risk expelling Stefan, Amer and Kristofer (who all are in relationships or are tied closely by blood to other very major members of the Gothenburg branch).

LuÃs Henrique

15th May 2014, 20:39

CyM

15th May 2014, 20:43

Hrafn, whatever the truth of the accusations against their organization, I would dial back the glee.

It is getting disturbing, we're talking about rape here.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Hrafn

15th May 2014, 21:02

One of our admins is a member of the Swedish section of the CWI; perhaps he can give us an account of what is happening.

Sentinel has already given a reply, and will hopefully have time to write more soon. :) I think Crux (if that is their name? Have only seen a post somewhere by think) is also a Swedish CWI member, but I'm not sure if they're active on RL.

Hrafn, whatever the truth of the accusations against their organization, I would dial back the glee.

It is getting disturbing, we're talking about rape here.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

I find your accusations disturbing, that's what. I find no joy in this, none. And am pretty damn insulted by your insinuation that I'm using sexual assault for some ulterior purpose. I am concerned, I am upset, I am angry, yes, but there is no bloody "glee" here. If there was, I would be a right-wing opportunist. I'm not going to comment on this further in this post, because I worry I might start swearing angrily at an admin if I do.

CyM

15th May 2014, 22:09

Perhaps I was being unfair to you, but I do think, reading through the thread, that some have shown an unbecoming attitude.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Hrafn

15th May 2014, 23:34

I have tried to show every detail of this situation that I know of, and have on a number of occasions actively tried to use non-biased language. Judge that as you wish.

PhoenixAsh

16th May 2014, 00:25

I think it was the smiley that created some confusion

Hrafn

16th May 2014, 01:03

What smiley?

PhoenixAsh

16th May 2014, 01:22

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2750626&postcount=35

Hrafn

16th May 2014, 02:18

Huh. That's... Disturbing. Must've misclicked when posting. :huh:

Hrafn

19th May 2014, 22:21

Things have happened. From what I can tell, not very positive ones. I will hopefully attain permission to translate some statements.

PhoenixAsh

19th May 2014, 23:06

Permission? Why do you need permission?

If there are statements then these are of the public domain.

Hrafn

19th May 2014, 23:36

The statements are by individuals, not organizations, and have been published in ways I'm not sure is readily available to everyone.

Le LibÃ©rer

20th May 2014, 02:18

Just for the record, I was the one who moved this thread to Women's Struggles (If I didnt say so at the time, I can't remember).

Two of the other admins wanted it move, and neither could at that time, so I obliged after being asked to.

LuÃs Henrique

20th May 2014, 15:14

Huh. That's... Disturbing. Must've misclicked when posting. :huh:

Yeah, that happens quite often to me - after posting something, I realise that it went with some unintended smiley, which usually doesn't match the intended tone.

It is possible to edit the post to remove the weirdness.

Luís Henrique

Hrafn

22nd May 2014, 08:18

I have been unable to procure permission for the time being, but fortunately TTV has published a statement containing the same facts in a more structured way, albeit with less analysis of them. Will post a translation as quickly as I can.

Hrafn

22nd May 2014, 09:25

Managed to take some time off.

Dear admins - I am not self-censoring anything name this time, and I will be requesting that the censoring of their names are revoked in all my posts. You'll see why in the post. The guilt of everyone involved has been confirmed, although the measures taken against them are woefully incomplete. Thank you for your time.

The following text was published at Take Back the Welfare! (Original post in Swedish (https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakavalfarden/posts/10152127870892076)) about nineteen hours ago.

Regarding our outing of Stefan Berg, Socialist Justice Party (RS) Gothenburg.

Our questions are: when will Stefan Berg, Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali be expelled? Are they all still welcomed to the party? Are they all being paid?

When will you (RS) write public apologies to the survivors that have been raped by Stefan Berg? The survivors that have been harassed, excluded, ostracised and threatened by Stefan, Kristofer and Amer?

Your internal email that has been sent out to all members of RS raises questions.

In the email it is confirmed that:

RS has finished the investigation of the rapes within the party

the party executive had a meeting on Sunday May 18th which decided that Stefan Berg will be suspended for the rapes that he has committed but he has therefore not been been expelled so far

the RS control commission will on request from Stefan Berg investigate if the investigation has been carried out right

the cover-up that has happened since 2010 with harassment, exclusion, ostracism and threats from Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali has happened

Kristofer and Amer are acquitted entirely with the motivation that they acted wrongly but unintentionally when they covered up the rapes

Kristofer and Amer were present at the party executive meeting with the right to vote

At the end of the email RS insinuates that the information regarding the party executive's decision will be brought up at the week's party association meetings, but wishes that the discussion stays there.

To the members of the Socialist Justice Party:

Sexual abuse

On May 9th the party executive was informed through an anonymous, open post on Facebook that there was a serious rape accusation directed towards one party executive member from Gothenburg. The party executive appointed an investigative group as soon as was possible.

On May 18th the party executive had a meeting and received information from the investigative group.

On May 17th the accused requested that the control committee carries out an investigation. The by-laws of RS say that a member who has a serious complaint has the right to this.

Decisions from the party executive meeting May 18th: That the party executive, based on the investigative group's report, suspends XX during the time that the control committee on his request carries out a new investigation. Suspension means that a person is removed from all assignments and memberships, and excluded from all parts of the party. First all of RS was accused by the Facebook page Take Back the Welfare for having covered up rape. Then two previous members in Gothenburg have come forward and said that RS Gothenborg's full-timers supposedly covered up.

The investigative group has reached the conclusion that this concerns an event from 2010. The investigative group has reached the conclusion that there has not been any intentional cover-up. All those who at the time knew of the incident believed at the time that it was the case of a false accusation.

Decision from the party executive meeting May 18th: That the party executive rejects the accusation that there has been an intentional cover-up in Gothenburg. But there is reason to criticize Gothenburg's full-timers' action and non-action in connection to receiving information of serious accusations in 2011.

3. What happens now? The control committee carries out its investigation. The party executive will convene and take a stand on that which the control committee has decided on. VU [Hrafn's note: executive committee] calls with this letter members of RS not to debate the question that regards the suspension until the party executive has taken a stand to the control committee's investigation.

It is a fact that this is now being used by forces that try to harm RS as much as possible, for example with letters to Haninge's [Hrafn's note: basically RS HQ, 2 municipal council seats] moderate [Hrafn's note: Moderate Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderate_Party)] municipal leadership about rapes within RS. Information about the party executive's decision will be brought up at the week's party association meetings.

We wish for the discussion to stay there.

Decision from the party executive meeting May 18th:
- The decisions of the party executive will be conveyed to the members. The executive committee is tasked with formulating a public statement. The party executive will get hold of a material for routines and instructions for how party members and elected bodies should act when suspicions of violence, threats or harassment occurs.

4. Political position
The Socialist Justice Party fights daily against sexism and sexual violence. A real socialist struggle must put feminism on the forefront. Our opposition against sexism also applies to the gender hierarchies that the party, consisting of the party's members, are not immune against. VU will within short initiative discussions about programmes against sexism and about how we act. There will be more material, here material from previous discussions is attached.

Hrafn

22nd May 2014, 09:54

I must've missed the following statement. I apologize for that, should've brought it up sooner. This was posted on May 20th. Swedish original (https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakavalfarden/posts/10152126191702076). The translation will be, as usual, pretty awful, but I hope it conveys the message.

Regarding our outing of Stefan Berg, Socialist Justice Party (RS) Gothenburg, we would like to here provide a summary of what that has happened as well as an explanation to why we took the decision to out him.

One of our admins gained through a mutual friend contact with a member of RS Gothenburg, who told their story to our admin. Their mutual friend could vouch for the witness who they knew very well. Through some other channels our admin could then also get parts of this story confirmed, and then also cmae into contact with some other cases of similar events.

As is often usual in the case of rape among people who know each other it took a while for the survivor to actually realize what she had been subjected to. But during the time that passed the survivor themselves got contact with other women who had also been subjected to similar events with Stefan Berg. The survivor had come to the conclusion that she now wanted to come out with her story. This for her own sake, to make it easier to deal and live with that which had happened. For also for the sake of other women who had experienced the same thing or that in the future could risk falling victim to Stefan Berg if this didn't come out. In discussions with our admin they reached the conclusion that they had to break the apparent rape culture that reigned within RS Gothenburg. Several people within RS Gothenburg knew of the charges. They had been encouraged by leading members of RS Gothenburg to not go any further or spread this.

On the 9th of May our admin brought this up in our internal discussion group. We discussed various ways to handle this, and arguments for and against outing Stefan Berg via TTV. Outings are an extremely powerful method that can cause great damage for those subjected to it and also people close to them. So it should be used sparingly and only after a thought-through balancing between the benefits there are and all the problems, as well as the possibility of using other methods. There should of course be no doubt about the guilt of the person being outed. It is also one matter to out Nazis and other right-wing extremists, but a completely other one when it concerns people within our own ranks and other leftists. Regardless of what you think about parties like RS they are after all in some regard on the same side as us.

But after we had discussed this in the group we eventually decided that it was motivated and necessary in this case. There was no doubt about the survivor's intentions. We had also had the story confirmed from reliable sources, so we took it as a fact that the story was correct. Furthermore everything indicated that there were numerous people who knew of this and that there existed a rape culture within RS Gothenburg. Therefore we reached the conclusion that this couldn't be swept under the rug, or blamed away. We therefore decided to publish the survivor's story. We saw benefits with doing this through TTV, primarily that it could be spread to a lot of people quickly without RS Gothenburg being able to affect the process.

RS has had several chances to solve this internally, but instead they have chosen to protect rapists. Because of that we thus chose to out this sexist. Sexism is not okay in any form. Rapes are extremely serious. Survivors are subjected to abuse, harassment and violence after the fact. This had to come to an end. So on Friday afternoon May 9th we made the outing and published the survivor's story. Within a few ours of this we were reached by rumours that RS had appointed an internal investigation.

According to the information we then have taken part of from within RS their investigation of these events has now been closed. The party executive had a meeting on Sunday May 18th which decided that Stefan Berg would be suspended. He has thus so far not been expelled. Instead RS' control committee, on Stefan Berg's request, inquire if the investigation has been carried out right. Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali who have been accused of being the driving forces between the cover-up have been acquitted entirely, with the motivation that they acted wrongly but unintentionally (this while having the right to vote during the meeting).

What we are seeing now is a rape culture that is beginning to crack. Even if RS Gothenburg still shows no sign of truly acting in a way that you would wish several witnesses (primarily women) have now come forward about how they knew about this, and themselves were part of the cover-up surrounding the rape charges within RS Gothenburg. This is most likely a development of events that makes it hard to return to that which was.

We are fully content with having acted rightly in this difficult decision.

/The admin collective of TTV

Hrafn

22nd May 2014, 10:19

Here is another long-ish post from May 20th, which provides much of the same commentary that I initially wanted to post. Swedish original (https://www.facebook.com/Tatillbakavalfarden/posts/10152126027582076). Do note that it is subjective, of course.

REGARDING THE SOCIALIST JUSTICE PARTY AND STEFAN BERG. Vi are publishing a follow-up with critique from people with insight into the investigation.

"Now the decision has been made on the extraordinary party executive meeting yesterday (Sun 18 May) regarding the rape charges towards Stefan Berg and the charges of covering up rape charges towards the same person by Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali. This has not been made public yet but we have taken part of the decision through various channels.

The decision that was made was that both Kristofer and Amer go completely free with the motivation that they acted wrongly but intentionally, and Stefan Berg has demanded that the control commission (the party's investigative body) investigates if the investigation has been carried out right, and he has been suspended from the party. (something which should have happened from the very start for all three)

A background to the critique against the decision is that both Amer and Kristofer participated in the party executive meeting, with the right to vote. They in other words had the right to themselves affect and vote about the consequences of their actions. But even if they had participated without the right to vote this would in itself have been wrong, when they already have made their statements to the investigative group. Why should they have much more space and ability to affect the decision than the people who were subjected to their actions?

The decision regarding Amer and Kristofer shows the enormous lack of knowledge within the Socialist Justice Party regarding structural oppression. As if all those who are part of a power structure are completely aware of it. The motivation is thus "Kristofer and Amer disbelieved and attacked the survivor of a rape, but because they did it without understanding that they were part of an oppression of women it is okay."

Regarding the decision about Stefan Berg there is no reason for RS not to expel him at the party executive meeting. There is nothing in the by-laws that limits this and it sends out the completely wrong message about how rapists within the party are handled. It doesn't in any way show that there is a zero tolerance towards sexism and the oppression of women, rather the opposite, that it is believed more important that the process takes place on the rapist's terms instead of as an organisation clearly taking a stand.

It is totally sick that the process has been allowed to go on this way (except for the investigative group, which did a really good job). That the decisions are made entirely on the terms of the offenders in a terribly corrupt way, how the entire time a rapist has been cosseted with. How witnesses and survivors have been badly received and ostracised and above all, how the Socialist Justice Party doesn't see its own guilt in this. It is a matter of structural sexism and elitism within the party. The reasons for that this has happened is that there is a structure within the party that doesn't prevent these things and that doesn't handle them the right way when it happens."

Hrafn

22nd May 2014, 10:21

I hope people will give him, and his fellow SJP/RS members here some time to articulate their thoughts and positions on this case, they are not taking it lightly they assured me.

Sadly doesn't look like we'll hear any articulations on this, unless they want to break democratic centralism or what not.

PhoenixAsh

22nd May 2014, 13:53

PhoenixAsh

22nd May 2014, 13:56

4. Political position
The Socialist Justice Party fights daily against sexism and sexual violence. A real socialist struggle must put feminism on the forefront. Our opposition against sexism also applies to the gender hierarchies that the party, consisting of the party's members, are not immune against. VU will within short initiative discussions about programmes against sexism and about how we act. There will be more material, here material from previous discussions is attached

^ the is utterly weak. Where is the strong condemnation of the actions of SB??

How should this be read???

"We are going to give out more information regarding sexual violence, bugt we won't kick out actual rapist because it inconveniences us?"

Sasha

22nd May 2014, 13:58

Sadly doesn't look like we'll hear any articulations on this, unless they want to break democratic centralism or what not.

i must say i'm quite surprised about it, maybe sentinel is still at sea (i honestly dont know) but i have seen another RS member (from gothenborg even i believe) posting a flood of relevant, good feminist material about sexual assault within leftist movements on his facebook (often from explicitly anarchist sources), while not talking (at least not in english) about the actual case it seems very clear he is not on the leadership line on this. but this member hasnt been active on revleft anyways recently so maybe he is taking priority with the people directly affected by this.

Hrafn

22nd May 2014, 21:56

This sanction seems to reek of political opportunism, self protection and trivialization.

Thoroughly disappointing.

And I would like to hear from resident RS members about their opinion on this course of events. How can any feminist take this partry serious from now on?

It'll, as said, be interesting to see if they respond, considering the stated order to not engage in any public discussions.

Several female members, and a few male, appear to have quit since the accusations emerged, and the number is rising, judging from what I've anecdotally seen on FB.

4. Political position
The Socialist Justice Party fights daily against sexism and sexual violence. A real socialist struggle must put feminism on the forefront. Our opposition against sexism also applies to the gender hierarchies that the party, consisting of the party's members, are not immune against. VU will within short initiative discussions about programmes against sexism and about how we act. There will be more material, here material from previous discussions is attached

^ the is utterly weak. Where is the strong condemnation of the actions of SB??

How should this be read???

"We are going to give out more information regarding sexual violence, bugt we won't kick out actual rapist because it inconveniences us?"

It does indeed seem like there is, as the critique I posted said, more of a focus on making allt this on the terms of the rapist and the people who covered the rape up, than on actually rejecting sexism, etc. as an organization.

i must say i'm quite surprised about it, maybe sentinel is still at sea (i honestly dont know) but i have seen another RS member (from gothenborg even i believe) posting a flood of relevant, good feminist material about sexual assault within leftist movements on his facebook (often from explicitly anarchist sources), while not talking (at least not in english) about the actual case it seems very clear he is not on the leadership line on this. but this member hasnt been active on revleft anyways recently so maybe he is taking priority with the people directly affected by this.

I'm not going to tell Sentinel to do things one way or the other, but I do hope he will continue participating in the discussion here rather than blindly following orders.

If you're refering to who I think you are, said person is both excused and not excused. I'm a bit divided on that. Won't infringe on their privacy though. I hope other RS members, or CWI in general, here will find themselves able to resist the urge to not participate in the discussion.

Edit: If anyone is interested, I could translate the first statement by another political group that I've seen. Two anarcho-syndicalist groups have posted a joint statement it seems, that dictates some policy changes apparently.

PhoenixAsh

22nd May 2014, 23:09

Hrafn

23rd May 2014, 20:00

^ that would be interesting.

We have asked members of our group to break political contacts with SR (admittedly not many members/participants have political connections with RS....maybe one or two) until there is a better statement and more clarity. We are currently debating whether it is useful to give a statement on these mentioned events. Personally I think not.

Might I ask what group that would be? :) Interesting to hear.

Personally, I think there is by now enough ground for statements to stand on, such as this first one below. I also think that statemens can be useful - creating pressure for action.

The following text was published by SUF Gothenburg and SUF Uddevalla-Lysekil, the two branches of the Swedish Anarcho-syndicalist Youth Federation, on their FB pages, and has been reposted elsewhere.

RS Gothenburg has made themselves guilty of deplorable behaviour. Here follows a joint statement from SUF Gothenburg and SUF Uddevalla-Lysekil. We begin with a statement from people with insight.

[The statement I posted a few posts up, there quoted by TTV.]

With background of this the SUF clubs Gothenburg and Uddevalla-Lysekil hold that all confidence for RS as an organization is lost, and furthermore that RS Gothenburg's direct defence of rape and the construction of a culture which facilitates for and acquits rapists make them a direct threat towards those that want to organize for socialism and feminism - especially women. Therefore we hereby condemn and establish an official policy regarding RS Gothenburg, and especially Stefan Berg, Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali, about never taking part in any networks or collaborations whatsoever with them. Neither will we accept the presence of these three persons at demonstrations, lectures, manifestations, meetings and so on, and sill make sure that they are removed if they show up. We also extend hand to our comrades in other organizations to apply this policy.

Of course this ultimately is not about RS, and we don't wish to go into polemics with them - it is about sexism, power structures, oppression and rape culture, problems which are not isolated to or unique for RS. Therefore we also intend to apply this policy towards other organizations and persons that exhibit the same disgusting behaviour. RS can therefore also of course restore its confidence by getting rid off these scum, and taking hold of their internal problems. Our struggle is just as much a struggle against our class enemies as it is a struggle against patriarchal traitors within our own ranks.

Hrafn

23rd May 2014, 20:54

I have some spare time while waiting for some people, so I might as well post an interesting factoid - an article posted almost exactly two years ago in the RS weekly newspaper Offensiv and online, written by the rapist Stefan Berg. Swedish original (http://offensiv.socialisterna.org/sv/1000/kultur/8125/). As with everything else in this thread (I hope I've made that clear) trigger warnings.

Not a real rape?

SVT's Document from Within brought in the documentary Not a real rape up the values and opinions there are among youths about the view of guilt. It is a harsh reality that is painted for the viewer through the interviews that have been done with high school students and arious experts that work with among other things young rape victims.

During the documentary we get to follow the story of Sara who was 15 years when she was raped by three guys of the same age at a school party - a story many have heard before, of peer pressure, exclusion, and the desire to be part of a context and be loved. Sara never told anyone and didn't report the guys. When then the rumour spread and she felt worse and worse she was told by a teacher at the school that "she should be quiet about it, that it could harm the school's reputation". She felt worse and worse and was tormented by nighmares, memory blackours, shame and self-loathing.

In a recently conducted survey 3000 high school students got to answer questions about sex.

Every tenth girl answered that hey had either been forced to or persuaded into having sex, despite not wanting to. On average that's one girl per class ans in half of the case the perpetrator was someone of the same age.

The medial image of how a rape looks is something that contributes to the problematic situation with the argument about the question of guilt. Lotti Helström is chief physician at Sweden's only emergency room for rape victims at Söder Hospital in Stockholm. She says it becomes harder for the woman to handle her own role in the rape if it doesn't resemble the image of a rape, in other words an outdoors assault rape.

The same thing with the values of the surrounding environment - in the interviews with youths there is a message in what may say, both girls and boys, that if the rape doesn't contain elements such as violence and physical coercion there lays a guilt with the victim and a suspicious attitude: "Maybe she exaggerates to get attemtion."

Helström explains that the most common reaction is that which is called "frozen fright" - you react by becoming completely passive, by becominh quiet and keeping still. This leads to being questioned about if you couldn't have done more to stop the rape by screaming or striking back.

Many that have been raped are afflicted by depressions afterwards and develops different types of self-harm behaviour. Sara did exactly that. She started using sex as a way of hurting herself, to punish herself for what she perceived as worthlessess.

The question of attitudes concerning rape is complex, but is a lot about gender roles and about power structures. Men are placed above women and this is mirrored in all of society on all levels: Wage difference, the right to full-time employment, how women are treated in school and in the workplace.

One extreme expresion of the oppression is sexualized violence in the form of sexual abuse, harassment and persecution.

SVT's documentary brings forward how multilayered the problem is, in the way that the view regarding the guilt question and womens' sexuality is so well anchored in our society. Gender roles are fortified again and again by both men and women. To break the oppression work is needed in schools, even pre-schools, and in workplaces to bring attention to the inequality. But to seriously challenge the gender power structure an anti-capitalist challenge is needed, that points out the core cause, namely the social system the foundation of which is built on groups being valued differently and being placed against each other - women against men, immigrants against ethnic Swedes, unemployed against employed, young against old, and so on.

Stefan Berg

How ironic, eh?

Here Stefan is seen enjoying a lovely picnic in the beautiful Spring weather, about a week ago according to the time stamps.

http://i.imgur.com/nexeKZq.jpg

ruth

24th May 2014, 23:06

The reason there are so many problems with men raping and sexually harassing women in left wing parties, is because the parties don't take the oppression of women seriously.

If you don't take the oppression of women seriously, you end up reproducing the conditions in a party, that simply replicates the oppression that happens outside of the party.

CyM

24th May 2014, 23:18

Hrafn

24th May 2014, 23:49

PhoenixAsh

24th May 2014, 23:59

I think something like this probably would cause intense debates internally, and it must be hard on RS members. I think we should be patient to see the results of that. "Cutting off contact" with RS members is idiotic and does not in any way help anything except declare that you're seeking a cookie and are concerned only with your image.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

There is a difference between SR members and the SR as a party.

Our group decided not to cooperate with or work together with SR as a party until the situation is corrected and a clear path and policy are laid out by SR leadership. This means none of our members, not even the few Trotskyists we have, will cooperate in any platform or action which would feature SR as a party or in those events organized by SR.

Since we do not have an image and we are simply an umbrella group consisting of activists of different tendencies who may or may not be aligned with parties or other groups and who have campaigned together over the last two decades this decision is pure and simple an ideological position.

Hrafn

26th May 2014, 15:00

I just fixed all the (pretty major) formatting issues that were caused when the admins censored my posts, and re-added the names and images. I believe this is warranted. Sasha stated the following: "If, over the coming days/weeks, it becomes clear there is merit to these accusations, both regarding the rape and the cover-up we will obviously reconsider this as protecting females in our movement from sexual assault takes priority from protecting the accused from the state, press or fash."

This has happened. RS quite clearly have judged Stefan Berg guilty of rape, even though they're just suspending him and allowing a re-investigation on his request. Amer Mohammed Ali and Kristofer Lundberg have also been judged guilty of covering up the rape, albeit deemed to have done this "unaware" that this is an awful, awful thing to do, as if that somehow excuses it. The official position of the party, in addition to the many testimonies of the truth that have come forward, makes this a moot point.

If the admins take it upon themselves continue protecting these offenders, these direct threats to women in the movement, then that's their choice. I just ask you make sure to not fuck up the formatting this time, please.

Pictured: The three offenders enjoying themselves.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t34.0-12/10379247_1419731448291308_733819129_n.jpg?oh=95e20 c8af3e615e1b4366fe2f1fe5671&oe=5385BFD3&__gda__=1401260950_a8521e426f8200b831bb97ac8fca1b1 d

Decolonize The Left

26th May 2014, 19:18

Hrafn

26th May 2014, 19:44

^ Please don't post pictures of people. This is in direct violation of security culture and the rules of the board. It is also not acceptable to post people's real names. If you are unfamiliar with security culture I suggest you google it.

This has been addressed above.

I am very well familiar with security culture, due to my background in anti-Fascism. I could not care less for it, in this case. These people are already well-known by the Fascists, press and police of Sweden, and any information provided here circulated in those circles long before it came here.

This is the question of outing a confirmed rapist, and his willing accomplices. The matter must be brought to attention for the sake of, as Sasha wrote previous in this thread, protecting females in our movement from sexual assault. If you wish to slavishly shield those who commit sexual assault, feasting upon our own ranks and walking away free, then that is your choice. I hope it rests heavily on you.

Decolonize The Left

26th May 2014, 19:54

This has been addressed above.

I am very well familiar with security culture, due to my background in anti-Fascism. I could not care less for it, in this case. These people are already well-known by the Fascists, press and police of Sweden, and any information provided here circulated in those circles long before it came here.

This is the question of outing a confirmed rapist, and his willing accomplices. The matter must be brought to attention for the sake of, as Sasha wrote previous in this thread, protecting females in our movement from sexual assault. If you wish to slavishly shield those who commit sexual assault, feasting upon our own ranks and walking away free, then that is your choice. I hope it rests heavily on you.

I don't wish to do anything of the sort. What I do wish to do is respect the (remarkably simple) rules of this forum which also protect the forum as a whole from legal action. Please don't make my attempt to follow simple guidelines out as some sort of anti-woman-rape-shielder.

You could quite simply post a link to the picture which is hosted on another website and accomplish the same thing - couldn't you? This, in turn, would a) respect the rules of this forum and b) protect this forum from possible legal recourse.

If you're so into security culture with your background in anti-fascism then you'd know that this helps protect our community, helps ensure a safer space, and keeps security culture in tact.

Hrafn

26th May 2014, 19:57

Decolonize The Left

26th May 2014, 20:07

The pictures are all already hosted on another website, you know.

I was under the impression, from previous commentary, that you people would find some bizarre reason to remove the links, no matter if they're under [img] tags or not.

Safer space is ensured by the outing of sexual abusers, not by shielding them. As for the safety of the site, it quite clearly makes no difference.

If the pics are hosted on another site then you could link to that site, thereby outing a (already outed, by your own words) rapist and still ensuring that the rules of this website are respected and the safety of this community is protected. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand.

What happens if this guy, or someone close to him, sues this website for defamation? They probably wouldn't win but the point is that that endangers people on this forum and the safe space of this forum as a whole. So in your quest (which I support wholeheartedly by the way) to out a rapist within the leftist community you are involuntarily putting this community at risk. I'm just asking you to respect the rules of the forum and, in doing so, to respect the members of this community. That's all.

CyM

26th May 2014, 20:10

In the case of the two others, as far as I know, they are guilty of not reporting accusations they believed were false to their EC and the wider organization. This is criminally stupid, but not the same as a coverup. It is often a problem amongst people who know the accused, and it requires certain training to realize it is inappropriate for people who know the person to judge the merits of the accusations. This is something that has to be instilled in comrades in advance, before such disasters happen.

Now, if I were the EC, I would suspend them from any leading positions as a result of this lapse of judgement. Again though, it does not seem like an intentional coverup, but rather that they felt the accusations to be false and thought it was appropriate to dismiss them without bringing them up with higher bodies. A huge mistake, but not one that justifies whipping up a "here are the people you need to leave in a coma" campaign as you are doing by posting their photos.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

synthesis

26th May 2014, 20:19

Decolonize The Left

26th May 2014, 20:33

Would you be admonishing Hrafn if he was posting pictures of fascists who had raped women? Point being, I think it's odd that these board rules only seem to apply to pictures of self-proclaimed communists.

I'm not sure your point. The board rules should apply to everyone in all contexts. That's why they're rules. I can't enforce them as I'm a local mod...

Hrafn

26th May 2014, 20:40

If the pics are hosted on another site then you could link to that site, thereby outing a (already outed, by your own words) rapist and still ensuring that the rules of this website are respected and the safety of this community is protected. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to understand.

What happens if this guy, or someone close to him, sues this website for defamation? They probably wouldn't win but the point is that that endangers people on this forum and the safe space of this forum as a whole. So in your quest (which I support wholeheartedly by the way) to out a rapist within the leftist community you are involuntarily putting this community at risk. I'm just asking you to respect the rules of the forum and, in doing so, to respect the members of this community. That's all.

Please do explain the actual different between a link, and said link in [img] wraps. The image is hosted on another website either way, and if either breaks your rules then both do. When Sasha removed images when he originally censored me, why didn't he just then removed the wraps? Would've, according to you, had the same effect.

Swedish law doesn't work like that. Suing in the American sense does not exist. Stefan Berg, and only he (only the person being defamed can report it) would have to go to the police and report defamation, which the prosecutor would then have to find cause for the case to go through.

Additionally, prosecuting defamation on an online forum appears to, under Swedish law, only be possible if the the forum administration voluntarily surrenders my personal information. Organization or entities can not be persecuted for defamation.

In the case of the two others, as far as I know, they are guilty of not reporting accusations they believed were false to their EC and the wider organization. This is criminally stupid, but not the same as a coverup. It is often a problem amongst people who know the accused, and it requires certain training to realize it is inappropriate for people who know the person to judge the merits of the accusations. This is something that has to be instilled in comrades in advance, before such disasters happen.

Now, if I were the EC, I would suspend them from any leading positions as a result of this lapse of judgement. Again though, it does not seem like an intentional coverup, but rather that they felt the accusations to be false and thought it was appropriate to dismiss them without bringing them up with higher bodies. A huge mistake, but not one that justifies whipping up a "here are the people you need to leave in a coma" campaign as you are doing by posting their photos.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Amer and Kristofer were not found guilty of not reporting the "incident". What they engaged in after finding out about the situation was threatening and harassing the survivor, after which they in a planed fashion isolated her, instructing RS members to remove her from Facebook, and actively spread lies about her. They are still, as of now, engaging in that, according to people I've spoken to in Gothenburg.

Hrafn

26th May 2014, 20:43

I'm not sure your point. The board rules should apply to everyone in all contexts. That's why they're rules. I can't enforce them as I'm a local mod...

I'm not trying to be a smartass in this particular post - would you mind linking me to these specific rules? I have only been able to find such rules pertaining to the personal information of other Revleft members, not rapists in general. I'm terrible with locating info when I need it.

Sasha

26th May 2014, 21:47

i'm fine with the pictures and names of the rapist staying, wheter the other two people their actions are enough to expose them to potential fash and cop agression is another thing to be discussed by the admins themselves. On one hand the info is out there anyway, on the other hand we are one of the biggest fora and as such carry a lot of google weight.
again, i dont mind their future political and job lives endangered but since fash in Sweden are no joke i'm not so sure wheter we should also endanger their actual lives.
but we will discuss this in the BA, for now it stays.

Hrafn

26th May 2014, 21:58

For the sake of the BA discussion, I'd like to posit that the Fascists already know quite well. There is a thread about it, linking to the same original texts as I did, on Flashback, Sweden's by far largest forum and a primary hangout of our Fascistic, far-right dregs. All three have been outed many, many times by the Fascists of Sweden on other matters - dozens of articles about events involving all three can be found with an easy Google search on the websites of the Swedish Resistance Movement and the Party of the Swedes, and various far-right blogs and minor media outlets. SMR's website carries a photo of Stefan, Metapedia has a whole article just about Kristofer, and so on. They're very well known, and very recognizable.

Hrafn

3rd June 2014, 16:12

Just a quick check in on the situation.

It has been almost a month since the reports of sexual assault came to public knowledge.

There has been no public response from RS, locally, regionally or nationally. Only two other left-wing groups have commented, the rest staying quiet. On Revleft, no CWI member other than Sentinel has commented, and he hasn't posted (in a public forum, that is) since May 13.

Stefan Berg, the proved rapist, remains active at least online, despite being suspended. On May 31 he posted an article published by RS Haningen (a local chapter of RS Gothenburg) on his Facebook account, commenting that "Stuggle pays off!". The post got eighteen likes. Of those eighteen, at least 10 I know are active and in some cases ranking members of the Socialist Justice Party.

On May 24, about a week after Stefan was deemed guilty of rape and suspended from the party, he posted a new Facebook profile photo. This got no less than fifty-six likes. I took a quick look at the people liking it. Among these were at least ten people I know are ranking RS members (among them Kristofer Lundberg, who has been found guilty of helping Stefan cover up the rape, and who is not facing any drawbacks from this), about a dozen people who judging from their participation in RS Facebook groups, status posts and photos of them participating in RS events are probably a mix of members I don't recognize and very active sympathizers, about half a dozen of Swedish-based Iranian exile Communists (who RS Gothenburg have very close ties to), a couple of members of other left-wing groups here in Sweden, and at least three recognizable members of CWI's international branches (Socialist Party England/Wales, Socialist Party Ireland, and Socialist Resistance of Kazakhstan, respectively).

Such is the nature of Stefan Berg's "suspension". He doesn't exactly appear to have become an outcast.

https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/1517640_10152802921898943_9154609916806459972_n.jp g
^The photo in question.

0zgurluk

3rd June 2014, 16:15

The sad thing is how common these incidents are on the left, like is this the 4th one this year?

ProletariatPower

3rd June 2014, 16:24

This is absolutely disgusting, the rape culture that exists within the Left seems to be a really deeply embedded problem, one I would not have suspected if it had not been for these stories surfacing. It is a reminder to everyone that the problems largely resulting from Capitalist society continue to exist within the Leftist movement and must be weeded out, accountability must be taken and also I believe people are right in their arguments that this is happening in these groups because they carry with them patriarchy and rape culture, despite supposedly opposing such hidden institutions they effectively become 'comrade clubs' with a privileged male leadership. This only confirms it as they continue to be 'buddies' with this confirmed criminal.

TheSocialistMetalhead

3rd June 2014, 17:50

I'm a member of an organisation affiliated with the CWI. First off, i want to say that I am shocked and saddened by this and I would have liked to see RS deal with this differently. I also want to stress that what I'm about to say is my personal opinion and doesn't necessarily reflect CWI's position.

I do however understand that it can be difficult to expel certain members of a party because of the importance of their role in its activities and structures. Expelling certain key figures within a party can cripple it severely. The obvious problem there is that parties can become centered around a few individuals, this poses both democratic and practical problems. The democratic problem being that these members will be able to gain a disproportionate amount of influence. The practical problem being that not every member can be heard equally since certain people are better with theory and campaigning than others, the less knowledgeable ones are left behind. Education and strengthening member ideologically and practically is therefore of vital importance to truly have a party of equals.

Having said that, I do believe that it would have been better to expel all three involved in the case. Losing all credibility as a party and causing a negative perception of the radical left is not much better than the party falling apart. Also, the sincerity of the feminism of three people who would perpetrate or cover up something as vile and sexist as rape is questionable at best and non-existent at worst.

From your description of the facts and (one of) the rape(s) itself, it seems to me that this Stefan isn't fully aware of the gravity of forcing oneself on a person sexually regardless of whether it started out consensual or not, he doesn't seem to see the inherent misogyny. This should be adressed with him personally. Even a former member (if he is fully expelled) can't be allowed to hold views that allow or lead him to do this to women.
A large part of the cause of the continued sexism in left wing circles, is in my opinion the continued dismissal of the structural causes of gender roles. I'd like to see men and women on the left to stop seeing each other as part of a different group. They're not. Male or female should only be a physical thing to us. We can only be true feminists if we completely stop seeing feminism as a struggle that can be dealt with apart from the struggle for society we strive for.

The reason no one other members of the CWI have commented is likely that very few members in other countries are aware of the issues in Sweden. I personally hadn't heard about these rapes at any meetings or during any conversations with comrades, both 'official' and casual until I saw this thread on the forum.

Jolly Red Giant

3rd June 2014, 20:37

I am also a member of an organisation affiliated to the CWI and I also want to stress that what I'm about to say is my personal opinion and doesn't necessarily reflect CWI's position.

I would have liked to see RS deal with this differently.
I suspect that the process of dealing with what has happened has not be completed. I also suspect that the RS is working in accordance with the rules and structures it has in place. Whether these rules and structures are sufficient will, I suspect, be reviewed after the conclusion of its process.

I am not surprised that the RS has made no public comment (and the same applies to individual members). Again, I suspect there will be no public comment until all the procedures have been concluded.

I do however understand that it can be difficult to expel certain members of a party because of the importance of their role in its activities and structures. Expelling certain key figures within a party can cripple it severely.
This should have zero bearing on the actions taken.

Having said that, I do believe that it would have been better to expel all three involved in the case.
I am willing to wait for the conclusion of the RS 'investigation' and their public comment before expressing a view on this.

Losing all credibility as a party and causing a negative perception of the radical left is not much better than the party falling apart. Also, the sincerity of the feminism of three people who would perpetrate or cover up something as vile and sexist as rape is questionable at best and non-existent at worst.
Again - the RS have not issued any public comment and I will wait to see what emerges from the RS.

From your description of the facts and (one of) the rape(s) itself, it seems to me that this Stefan isn't fully aware of the gravity of forcing oneself on a person sexually regardless of whether it started out consensual or not, he doesn't seem to see the inherent misogyny.
This is supposition - nobody has any idea what is going on in the head of any individual.

This should be adressed with him personally. Even a former member (if he is fully expelled) can't be allowed to hold views that allow or lead him to do this to women.
I think far more concrete measures would and should have to be taken if there is concrete evidence that the individual has acted in the manner suggested.

A large part of the cause of the continued sexism in left wing circles, is in my opinion the continued dismissal of the structural causes of gender roles. I'd like to see men and women on the left to stop seeing each other as part of a different group. They're not. Male or female should only be a physical thing to us. We can only be true feminists if we completely stop seeing feminism as a struggle that can be dealt with apart from the struggle for society we strive for.
Left organisations are not isolated from all the pressures and influences of the patriarchal and sexist nature of capitalist society. I do not agree with the assertion that left wing organisations have any greater instances of sexism or violence against women than exists in general society (in fact in my experience it is significantly less). Furthermore, left organisations must engage in a continuous internal struggle to minimise the impact of capitalist attitudes towards women within the organisation.Similarly, any left organisation must and should engage in a constant struggle in wider society to defend the rights of women.

The reason no one other members of the CWI have commented is likely that very few members in other countries are aware of the issues in Sweden. I personally hadn't heard about these rapes at any meetings or during any conversations with comrades, both 'official' and casual until I saw this thread on the forum.
This is the case with me as well. Although I suspect the main reason for CWi members not making any comments has more to do with waiting to see the outcome of the process within the RS. That is certain the view I hold.

Hrafn

3rd June 2014, 20:48

I am also a member of an organisation affiliated to the CWI and I also want to stress that what I'm about to say is my personal opinion and doesn't necessarily reflect CWI's position.

I suspect that the process of dealing with what has happened has not be completed. I also suspect that the RS is working in accordance with the rules and structures it has in place. Whether these rules and structures are sufficient will, I suspect, be reviewed after the conclusion of its process.

I am not surprised that the RS has made no public comment (and the same applies to individual members). Again, I suspect there will be no public comment until all the procedures have been concluded.

This should have zero bearing on the actions taken.

I am willing to wait for the conclusion of the RS 'investigation' and their public comment before expressing a view on this.

Again - the RS have not issued any public comment and I will wait to see what emerges from the RS.

This is supposition - nobody has any idea what is going on in the head of any individual.

I think far more concrete measures would and should have to be taken if there is concrete evidence that the individual has acted in the manner suggested.

Left organisations are not isolated from all the pressures and influences of the patriarchal and sexist nature of capitalist society. I do not agree with the assertion that left wing organisations have any greater instances of sexism or violence against women than exists in general society (in fact in my experience it is significantly less). Furthermore, left organisations must engage in a continuous internal struggle to minimise the impact of capitalist attitudes towards women within the organisation.Similarly, any left organisation must and should engage in a constant struggle in wider society to defend the rights of women.

This is the case with me as well. Although I suspect the main reason for CWi members not making any comments has more to do with waiting to see the outcome of the process within the RS. That is certain the view I hold.

The investigation is over. The only thing currently happening appears to be a "counter-investigation", one which I don't expect to change the results and that RS Gothenburg themselves say is only taking place because the rules allow the rapist to demand one. It has been concluded that Stefan Berg is a rapist, and that Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali covered up the rape (but somehow were "unaware" of how this is bad, and therefore go completely free).

There should, most definitely, have been a public statement by now. RS Gothenburg should have admitted to knowing about the reports online, and stated that they are taking it seriously. How could anyone have faith or trust in them when they're stonewalling it outwardly, when they delete all mentions of it on their public FB pages, and when high-ranking members such as Kristofer Lundberg's brother have been seen engaging in "battles" about the reliability of the victims, and far more nefarious things that I don't have permission to speak about are taking place, etc.?

Jolly Red Giant

3rd June 2014, 23:21

The investigation is over.
That may be the case - although I would suggest that the use of the word 'investigation' is not appropriate in this context. You yourself have commented on the fact that the RS has no 'legal' authority to carry out and investigation.

The only thing currently happening appears to be a "counter-investigation", one which I don't expect to change the results
Again by stating you 'don't expect it to change the results' you are pre-empting the decision of the appeal.

and that RS Gothenburg themselves say is only taking place because the rules allow the rapist to demand one.
Again - all members of the RS are entitled to request an evaluation by an appeals committee of the 'investigation'.

It has been concluded that Stefan Berg is a rapist,
I would caution against the use of this language - if the accusations well founded then criminal proceedings could result. I don't know the legal system in Sweden but in my country the public declaration of such claims could prejudice a trial, result in a mistrial and the inability to proceed with criminal charges. This would be very serious - as someone who engages in the actions that this individual is accused of deserves at the very least to be brought to trial and if found guilty of any charge would result at the very least being placed on a sex offenders register.

and that Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali covered up the rape (but somehow were "unaware" of how this is bad, and therefore go completely free).
I will await a statement from the RS before commenting further.

There should, most definitely, have been a public statement by now. RS Gothenburg should have admitted to knowing about the reports online, and stated that they are taking it seriously.
Again - just because the RS has not issued a statement does not mean that the RS is not taking it seriously. I have known several people in the leadership of the RS and from my knowledge of them I would expect them to take any such charge very seriously and act appropriately.

How could anyone have faith or trust in them when they're stonewalling it outwardly, when they delete all mentions of it on their public FB pages,
And I would regard this as an appropriate step. Following on from my comments above it must be recognised that the only steps the RS can take against the individual involved is their expulsion. However, if such charges are valid then criminal charges should follow and the RS has a responsibility not to prejudice such a possibility.

and when high-ranking members such as Kristofer Lundberg's brother have been seen engaging in "battles" about the reliability of the victims, and far more nefarious things that I don't have permission to speak about are taking place, etc.?
Well when you do have the permission and you can produce such evidence then I will comment on it. Such accusations are serious and I would not accept such activities from any member of the CWI. Social Media is a nightmare when it comes to accusations and counter accusations. Many such accusations have validity but I have experience that in many instances the entire episode can be utterly unfounded (now I am not claiming that this is the case here but I have experience of it happening in other situations - mostly outside the political sphere).

My final comment - and I don't intend commenting further - is that if there is a basis for the charges being made against this individual then I would argue that the RS should pass on all information to the appropriate authorities and allow the legal system to run its course. I don't hold with the notion that socialist organisations and individuals should have no truck with a capitalist legal system. When the rights of an individual have been violated then whatever system is available should be utilised. I have done so in the past and would again in the future if the need arose.

Hrafn

4th June 2014, 13:36

That may be the case - although I would suggest that the use of the word 'investigation' is not appropriate in this context. You yourself have commented on the fact that the RS has no 'legal' authority to carry out and investigation.

I am using their own word. Utredning, i.e. when translated investigation. Don't blame me.

Again by stating you 'don't expect it to change the results' you are pre-empting the decision of the appeal.

Yes, I am. Rightfully so, hopefully - anything else would mean they're letting a rapist go free.

Again - all members of the RS are entitled to request an evaluation by an appeals committee of the 'investigation'.

According to the rules, yes.

I would caution against the use of this language - if the accusations well founded then criminal proceedings could result. I don't know the legal system in Sweden but in my country the public declaration of such claims could prejudice a trial, result in a mistrial and the inability to proceed with criminal charges. This would be very serious - as someone who engages in the actions that this individual is accused of deserves at the very least to be brought to trial and if found guilty of any charge would result at the very least being placed on a sex offenders register.

The investigation carried out by RS came to the conclusion that Stefan Berg has carried out rape. Your disgusting apologism of this is appalling, and your worries about the bourgeois justice system are annoying.

I will await a statement from the RS before commenting further.

There can be no message clearer than the internal verdict.

Again - just because the RS has not issued a statement does not mean that the RS is not taking it seriously. I have known several people in the leadership of the RS and from my knowledge of them I would expect them to take any such charge very seriously and act appropriately.

RS can not be perceived as taking this seriously if they stonewall it, and engage in cover-upping this once again.

And I would regard this as an appropriate step. Following on from my comments above it must be recognised that the only steps the RS can take against the individual involved is their expulsion. However, if such charges are valid then criminal charges should follow and the RS has a responsibility not to prejudice such a possibility.

Your support for covering up the situation is appalling.

Criminal charges will never take place, as there is no point whatsoever in it, and the victims have decided not to put themselves through such a painful process for no result.

Well when you do have the permission and you can produce such evidence then I will comment on it. Such accusations are serious and I would not accept such activities from any member of the CWI. Social Media is a nightmare when it comes to accusations and counter accusations. Many such accusations have validity but I have experience that in many instances the entire episode can be utterly unfounded (now I am not claiming that this is the case here but I have experience of it happening in other situations - mostly outside the political sphere).

My final comment - and I don't intend commenting further - is that if there is a basis for the charges being made against this individual then I would argue that the RS should pass on all information to the appropriate authorities and allow the legal system to run its course. I don't hold with the notion that socialist organisations and individuals should have no truck with a capitalist legal system. When the rights of an individual have been violated then whatever system is available should be utilised. I have done so in the past and would again in the future if the need arose.

This particular "nefarious" thing relates more to direct street violence than to anything relating to social media. I can say no more, sadly.

You falling into the constant patriarchal "false rape accusation" situation is despicable.

There have been numerous explanations as to why the legal system is irrelevant here.

Jolly Red Giant

4th June 2014, 15:15

I said I wasn't going to comment further - but this rant needs to be taken in hand.

I am using their own word. Utredning, i.e. when translated investigation. Don't blame me.
Actually from what I can see (and I don't know a word of Swedish) this word can also be translated into -
examination or inquiry
- both of which would be much more appropriate for this case at hand.

Yes, I am. Rightfully so, hopefully - anything else would mean they're letting a rapist go free.
You miss the point - the 'appeal' is a review of the procedures involved - this review could demonstrate that the 'investigation', 'inquiry', 'examination' was inadequate and that the issue should be re-opened. From what you claim I would suggest that this would be appropriate.

The investigation carried out by RS came to the conclusion that Stefan Berg has carried out rape.
This is actually beside the point - but I do have a question to ask - is it true that TTV deleted two statements from the Executive Committee of the RS in relation to the accusations? If so can you please indicate what was the content of these statements and why were they removed?

Your disgusting apologism of this is appalling, and your worries about the bourgeois justice system are annoying.
you are approaching this with blinkers on. I couldn't give two f*cks about the bourgeois justice system. However, the fact is that all that exists in Sweden is a bourgeois legal system and if a rape has been carried out then the victim deserves justice. Ensuring that nothing that could impact on the outcome of any potential legal proceedings is important.

RS can not be perceived as taking this seriously if they stonewall it, and engage in cover-upping this once again.
That is your claim - from what I can see RS is being absolutely thorough in their actions to ensure that the matter is dealt with in a full, appropriate and comprehensive fashion.

Your support for covering up the situation is appalling.
Where have I said I support any cover-up. If the RS is found wanting in its approach and outcome then I can assure you that the CWI will take action. It would be utterly unacceptable for the CWI to ignore an outcome that involved any kind of cover-up from one of its affiliated organisations.

Criminal charges will never take place, as there is no point whatsoever in it,
I disagree - if a rape has taken place then the matter should be referred for criminal proceedings. Rape victims need to know that their attackers are at the very least, subjected to a full criminal investigation.

and the victims have decided not to put themselves through such a painful process for no result.
I can appreciate this - but I would regard this as unfortunate. I would argue that the RS has a role and responsibility to support the victims and encourage them to report the crime for criminal prosecution. There are two reasons for this 1. To show other women that women should not be subjected to such an assault and if they are they can secure justice - and 2. to ensure that the perpetrator is brought to account and hopefully prevent such an assault by this individual in the future.

This particular "nefarious" thing relates more to direct street violence than to anything relating to social media. I can say no more, sadly.
This is unfortunate. You implied that these claims related to facebook (you talked about the number of 'likes' etc). You are making certain claims on here and then stating that you cannot provide evidence. I would suggest it would be appropriate not to make unsubstantiated claims until you can provide the evidence. It would make the entire case far more substantial and would also demonstrate whether the RS (and or individual members of the RS) have behaved appropriately or inappropriately in all of this.

You falling into the constant patriarchal "false rape accusation" situation is despicable.
Now you are making accusations against me despite the fact that you have zero knowledge about me, my background, upbringing, family relationships, social and political outlook etc. In other words, because I don't necessarily agree with you, or the approach you have taken here, I am 'despicable' and falling into the constant patriarchal "false rape accusation" situation.The difference between you and me is that I recognise that I am influenced by the patriarchal nature of capitalist society - I constantly fight those influences and am cautious when it comes to addressing issues like violence against women. I am cautious precisely because of the patriarchal "false rape accusation" incidents that happen. In reality I am going much further than you indicate.

There have been numerous explanations as to why the legal system is irrelevant here.
And I am afraid I don't accept your explanations - and see no real evidence to date why this should be the case. There is far too much stuff on the left that the outcome of sexual violence only results in some admonishment by the political organisation. Women subjected to sexual violence by members of a left organisation should be provided with a supportive environment that facilitates the pursuit of justice by bringing the perpetrators to account in a way that is far more comprehensive than simply being turfed out of a left group. In a more extreme example, if a member of a left organisation subjected a woman to sexual violence and then murdered the woman would you argue that the left organisation should limit their actions to expelling this individual or should the organisation provide the evidence it might possess to the bourgeois justice system so that the perpetrator can be brought to account for their actions.

Now I suggest that instead of tossing accusations about on my motivations, you should confine yourself to providing actual evidence of any claims you make to ensure that whatever is said can be substantiated.

Last point - I sincerely hope that the women who have been subjected to the abuse indicated are receiving the appropriate help, care, support, assistance and, if necessary, counselling, to deal with the ordeal they have been subjected to - and I hope that RS has acted to ensure this is the case if requested to do so.

TheSocialistMetalhead

4th June 2014, 19:37

Internal investigations tend to fall short, especially in smaller organisations, because there are too many personal elements involved.

Also I didn't mean that there are more instances of sexism in radical left parties than elsewhere. I was simply saying that we are sadly not exempt from the influences of patriarchy and structurally determined gender roles. Like you say, we should fight this both individually within ourselves and as a group.

I don't mean to antagonise a comrade but please refrain from even implying the possibility that this is some sort of hoax or that we need to await a statement from RS to understand what "really" happened. Some members of RS have apparently deemed matters serious enough to consider leaving the party. If they would take such drastic action in response to this incident, it's certainly reasonable for us to condemn the way RS has dealt with this.

I understand that you want to be prudent but please realize that some people and certainly some comrades don't appreciate the way you're approaching this.

Hrafn

4th June 2014, 22:41

Actually from what I can see (and I don't know a word of Swedish) this word can also be translated into -
examination or inquiry
- both of which would be much more appropriate for this case at hand.

I am using the translation most commonly used in criminology. To me, being a second language English-speaker, "investigation" and "inquiry" represent much the same. Don't become a lingual authoritarian, here.

You miss the point - the 'appeal' is a review of the procedures involved - this review could demonstrate that the 'investigation', 'inquiry', 'examination' was inadequate and that the issue should be re-opened. From what you claim I would suggest that this would be appropriate.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your apologism.

This is actually beside the point - but I do have a question to ask - is it true that TTV deleted two statements from the Executive Committee of the RS in relation to the accusations? If so can you please indicate what was the content of these statements and why were they removed?

I have not heard of this. I'd appreciate if you were more specific?

you are approaching this with blinkers on. I couldn't give two f*cks about the bourgeois justice system. However, the fact is that all that exists in Sweden is a bourgeois legal system and if a rape has been carried out then the victim deserves justice. Ensuring that nothing that could impact on the outcome of any potential legal proceedings is important.

I've made my stance on this clear.

That is your claim - from what I can see RS is being absolutely thorough in their actions to ensure that the matter is dealt with in a full, appropriate and comprehensive fashion.

And you are entirely wrong with that.

Where have I said I support any cover-up. If the RS is found wanting in its approach and outcome then I can assure you that the CWI will take action. It would be utterly unacceptable for the CWI to ignore an outcome that involved any kind of cover-up from one of its affiliated organisations.

You are supporting the above mentioned "shushing down" of the reports that have surfaced, you've said so yourself.

I disagree - if a rape has taken place then the matter should be referred for criminal proceedings. Rape victims need to know that their attackers are at the very least, subjected to a full criminal investigation.

What is the point? There will never be any conviction, and the victim doesn't want to have to live through that, as I've said.

I can appreciate this - but I would regard this as unfortunate. I would argue that the RS has a role and responsibility to support the victims and encourage them to report the crime for criminal prosecution. There are two reasons for this 1. To show other women that women should not be subjected to such an assault and if they are they can secure justice - and 2. to ensure that the perpetrator is brought to account and hopefully prevent such an assault by this individual in the future.

They have no fucking right to tell the victim what to do. That is such utter bullshit. And none of that would result from reporting it.

This is unfortunate. You implied that these claims related to facebook (you talked about the number of 'likes' etc). You are making certain claims on here and then stating that you cannot provide evidence. I would suggest it would be appropriate not to make unsubstantiated claims until you can provide the evidence. It would make the entire case far more substantial and would also demonstrate whether the RS (and or individual members of the RS) have behaved appropriately or inappropriately in all of this.

No, I did not. I have not implied these "nefarious thing" relate to Facebook. I've been asked not to provide any detail online as to not disturb the ongoing police report that has been filed.

Now you are making accusations against me despite the fact that you have zero knowledge about me, my background, upbringing, family relationships, social and political outlook etc. In other words, because I don't necessarily agree with you, or the approach you have taken here, I am 'despicable' and falling into the constant patriarchal "false rape accusation" situation.The difference between you and me is that I recognise that I am influenced by the patriarchal nature of capitalist society - I constantly fight those influences and am cautious when it comes to addressing issues like violence against women. I am cautious precisely because of the patriarchal "false rape accusation" incidents that happen. In reality I am going much further than you indicate.

How fascinating.

And I am afraid I don't accept your explanations - and see no real evidence to date why this should be the case. There is far too much stuff on the left that the outcome of sexual violence only results in some admonishment by the political organisation. Women subjected to sexual violence by members of a left organisation should be provided with a supportive environment that facilitates the pursuit of justice by bringing the perpetrators to account in a way that is far more comprehensive than simply being turfed out of a left group. In a more extreme example, if a member of a left organisation subjected a woman to sexual violence and then murdered the woman would you argue that the left organisation should limit their actions to expelling this individual or should the organisation provide the evidence it might possess to the bourgeois justice system so that the perpetrator can be brought to account for their actions.

Now I suggest that instead of tossing accusations about on my motivations, you should confine yourself to providing actual evidence of any claims you make to ensure that whatever is said can be substantiated.

Last point - I sincerely hope that the women who have been subjected to the abuse indicated are receiving the appropriate help, care, support, assistance and, if necessary, counselling, to deal with the ordeal they have been subjected to - and I hope that RS has acted to ensure this is the case if requested to do so.

This has been explained why the very victim themselves. Your bullshit is a bit too strong here. I quote: "The reason why I haven't gone to the police is that I know it would end with him going free anyway. It took me a year to realize that I had been subjected to a rape. I wouldn't be able to endure a process where I constantly would be mistrusted."

I am not arguing that the judicial system is always useless. I am arguing it is irrelevant in this case, as the victim has no intention of going to it.

RS has done no such thing, quite obviously. It has engaged in harassment and cover-ups.

Jolly Red Giant

4th June 2014, 22:57

Internal investigations tend to fall short, especially in smaller organisations, because there are too many personal elements involved.
That can be the case - but what evidence do you have that it has happened in this case?

I don't mean to antagonise a comrade but please refrain from even implying the possibility that this is some sort of hoax
Where have I implied that any of the accusations were a hoax - It appears from all accounts that the accusations were true. My issue is not with the claims of the victims - but the claims by TTV that the RS covered it up.

Some members of RS have apparently deemed matters serious enough to consider leaving the party. If they would take such drastic action in response to this incident, it's certainly reasonable for us to condemn the way RS has dealt with this.
What evidence do you have that members of the RS have considered leaving? And even if people have considered leaving and haven't then it would imply that when they reviewed what had happened internally by the RS that they considered the actions of the RS appropriate.

I understand that you want to be prudent but please realize that some people and certainly some comrades don't appreciate the way you're approaching this.
As I stated above - I fully accept that the accusations are true. What I have done and all I will continue to do until evidence is produced to the contrary, is question the claims that the RS tried to cover-up the incident. Knowing some of the people in leading positions in the RS it would go against everything they have ever done and would do in such a situation.

PhoenixAsh

4th June 2014, 23:02

I find the position of encouraging the victims to go to the police, a bourgeois patriarchal institution, and subject themselves to the misogynist, humiliating and belittling process rape victims are usually subjected to, especially contrary to their express wishes, extremely problematic.

The idea that justice could be gained is belied by the numerous cases which actually do quite the contrary or where the efforts, and the fact that victims are usually treated as suspects themselves, actually gain little pay off in the form of penal compensation. The bourgeois legal system is not there to protect rape victims at all.

I also find the notion of caution because of false rape accusations problematic in the context of the rapist already admitting. The person is extremely well aware of the nature of rape seeing as he gave lectures on them and was involved in recent campaigns against the rise of rape in the local area. Which not only makes this whole situation tragically ironic but also surreal. A rapist involved in action against rape and ensuring women in the are that they can protect themselves.

Not only that; but the idea of false accusation, while it factually does happen very occasionally/incidentally, being brought up in this respect is worrying imo since it immediately places pressure and accusation on the victim while a `we are not yet fully aware of all the facts` would have sufficed. Bringing up the chance that the rape could be made up casts a veil of doubt over a victims words in an already laden context of patriarchy.

Psycho P and the Freight Train

4th June 2014, 23:07

Rosa Partizan

4th June 2014, 23:16

PhoenixAsh

4th June 2014, 23:27

Dude, so if someone gets raped, don't report it? That is terrible advice. Do you think I like the bourgeois legal system? I don't. You're right about a lot of suffering through the court system. It is hell for the victim. Absolute hell. But what are the other options? To allow the rapist to just get away with it??

If the victim doesn't want to report it then do not convince them to report it.

You are not the one going through the process. You are not the one being put on trial for being raped. You are not the one going to be humiliated and belittled and mistrusted. And you are not the one having to deal with reliving the process when the rapist will eventually either just walk or get away with a slap on the wrist.

This goes for both male and female victims. I would not convince somebody to report rape to the police when they already stated they didn't want to.

Not just saying this because I read it in an article.

Psycho P and the Freight Train

4th June 2014, 23:31

Ace and Phoenix, you're kind of both right. Some time ago, I saw a political talk show with some former police president or sth, just someone who had held a really high position. He was like, "if my daughter ever got raped, I'd advice her not to go to the police, cause their way of handling this stuff is horrible." Phoenix described the current situation and you, Ace, are more like how it should be. I myself don't know if I'd encourage anyone to go to the police, either, because especially when the abuse was conducted by someone you knew or you trusted, chances are unbelieveably small that this will even only end up in a trial, let alone the guy being arrested. Police tends to be incredibly insensitive and disgusting in their way of dealing with victims of sexual assault and abuse, so I understand anyone that doesn't want to report. But yeah, in some better world, you could go there and they would calm you down and encourage you instead of belittling and distrusting you. Police is just some kind of helper of patriarchy and if you're not really, really lucky to meet one of those very, very few helpful guys there that will take you seriously, you will just go through the same shit again you already went through, with strangers humiliating you.

If the victim doesn't want to report it then do not convince them to report it.

You are not the one going through the process. You are not the one being put on trial for being raped. You are not the one going to be humiliated and belittled and mistrusted. And you are not the one having to deal with reliving the process when the rapist will eventually either just walk or get away with a slap on the wrist.

This goes for both male and female victims. I would not convince somebody to report rape to the police when they already stated they didn't want to.

Not just saying this because I read it in an article.

It's not that I disagree. It's just that what are the other options? Vigilante justice? I don't have a problem with that, but a lot of people do.

But you both make a very good point, I probably shouldn't be acting like I know what's best for someone who has gone through such a traumatic experience and my intention wasn't to speak on their behalf.

I guess I just don't know what other options there are to punish the rapist?

Rosa Partizan

4th June 2014, 23:31

If the victim doesn't want to report it then do not convince them to report it.

You are not the one going through the process. You are not the one being put on trial for being raped. You are not the one going to be humiliated and belittled and mistrusted. And you are not the one having to deal with reliving the process when the rapist will eventually either just walk or get away with a slap on the wrist.

This goes for both male and female victims. I would not convince somebody to report rape to the police when they already stated they didn't want to.

Not just saying this because I read it in an article.

some days ago, I saw some horrible discussion on a feminist blog, with a woman shaming other women, survivors of sexual assault, who rejected to report. She was like, it's your duty to report, I myself did report and it was hard, but if I could do it, you can also do it and stuff. This was so goddamn gross. I guess if someone really doesn't want to, they have their reasons, and it's most probably good ones. Women know what expects them when reporting and it's the police's fault that they feel this way.

Rosa Partizan

4th June 2014, 23:34

Psycho P and the Freight Train

4th June 2014, 23:37

I got the same feelings about that. I'm not at all sad when I hear stories like "they beat the hell out of that rapist", but I somehow feel this is just not enough, and that it is a very poor conduct of authorities to fail victims/survivors in such a way that they themselves have to look for justice.

Yes, exactly. I have a strong sense of justice and when I see a rapist go unpunished, it gets my blood boiling. And then on the other hand, of course victims wouldn't want to go through the grueling process of dealing with scumbag cops and the scumbag court system. So the frustration of there not being any real option gets to me.

But it is true that you should never ever try to push someone into going to the police if they say they do not want to.

But I get very excited when I hear stories such as the case when a few Indian women stormed a courtroom and castrated a serial rapist. THAT is what needs to happen, really. But it's not very pragmatic to expect people to do that in every case, so it makes me frustrated.

EDIT: Ahh, you deactivated your account :(

PhoenixAsh

4th June 2014, 23:51

It's not that I disagree. It's just that what are the other options? Vigilante justice? I don't have a problem with that, but a lot of people do.

But you both make a very good point, I probably shouldn't be acting like I know what's best for someone who has gone through such a traumatic experience and my intention wasn't to speak on their behalf.

I guess I just don't know what other options there are to punish the rapist?

It is inherent in the patriarchal nature of our society that rape victims and victims of sexual crimes are seen and treated as somehow having brought it upon themselves and there will be an assumption that you lie. Rape is incredibly hard to prove and everything you will say will be doubted.

TW: http://www.uic.edu/orgs/cwluherstory/CWLUArchive/saysorry.html

There is no win here. And that is part of patriarchy...and part of what is so damned traumatizing: the feeling of loss of power and loss of control and why victims often talk about the continued feeling of perpetual violation. I don't know if I translate this right...but many victims feel they keep being violated long after the actual rape.

It gets worse when they went through the process of police and trial. The link above is the American system. The Dutch system functions very differently. But the outcome is the same....and the treatment as well.

TW
My colleague had a relationship with some guy who she at that time gave pictures. He said that he had deleted them. But a while later he used those pictures to blackmail her into sex. She did so because he said he would send them to her work and her friends and family. She went to the cops on advice of a friend. They said that since she had given the pictures to him it wasn't actual blackmail and since she slept with him voluntarily it wasn't actually rape. Bullshit of course. But end of story. No justice. She can't pay for a lawyer.

Psycho P and the Freight Train

4th June 2014, 23:53

It is inherent in the patriarchal nature of our society that rape victims and victims of sexual crimes are seen and treated as somehow having brought it upon themselves and there will be an assumption that you lie. Rape is incredibly hard to prove and everything you will say will be doubted.

TW: http://www.uic.edu/orgs/cwluherstory/CWLUArchive/saysorry.html

That's very true. Victim blaming. And you're right, rape is hard to prove in this court system, didn't consider that.

PhoenixAsh

5th June 2014, 00:02

where the hell did Roza go and why?

Psycho P and the Freight Train

5th June 2014, 00:04

where the hell did Roza go and why?

Wondering the same. Quail posted that it was self-requested deactivation.

PhoenixAsh

5th June 2014, 00:06

That is upsetting. I quite liked her posts.

Psycho P and the Freight Train

5th June 2014, 00:13

That is upsetting. I quite liked her posts.

Yeah so did I, it got a lot of good discussion going. Plus I liked her brand of feminism compared to all the others.

Jolly Red Giant

5th June 2014, 00:20

Now to deal with this

I am using the translation most commonly used in criminology. To me, being a second language English-speaker, "investigation" and "inquiry" represent much the same. Don't become a lingual authoritarian, here.
'investigation' and 'inquiry' are not the same - and it has nothing to do with linguistics and everything to do with process and intent.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your apologism.
And I wholeheartedly disagree with your accusation of apologism

I have not heard of this. I'd appreciate if you were more specific?
Ask the TTV

My understanding is that the EC of the RS published at least one statement on TTV that was deleted.

I've made my stance on this clear.
Yes you have - and it is concerning that you are adopting this attitude

And you are entirely wrong with that.
Produce evidence for this assertion

You are supporting the above mentioned "shushing down" of the reports that have surfaced, you've said so yourself.
Where? - produce one comment I made where I stated or implied the RS were covering up anything

What is the point? There will never be any conviction,
Can you predict the future?

and the victim doesn't want to have to live through that, as I've said.
The point being that the victim may feel they she cannot go through the process now - but the victim may change her mind at some point in the future.

They have no fucking right to tell the victim what to do. That is such utter bullshit.
Stick your hostility back in its box - where did I ever suggest that the RS should tell the victim what to do? Read what I wrote - and to make it clear for you

I would argue that the RS has a role and responsibility to support the victims and encourage them to report the crime for criminal prosecution.Maybe you will again accuse me of being a 'lingual authoritarian' but there is a massive difference between 'telling' and 'encouraging'.
One is to attempt to force someone to do something they may not want to do - the other is to offer support and encouragement to reach a decision that could be argued as appropriate for dealing with the abuse while assuring the victim will be validated in whatever decision they arrive at.

And none of that would result from reporting it.
more crystal ball stuff.

No, I did not. I have not implied these "nefarious thing" relate to Facebook.
true - you claimed (without providing any evidence) that it was related to direct street violence

I've been asked not to provide any detail online as to not disturb the ongoing police report that has been filed.
So after being utterly dismissive of any suggestion I make of using the bourgeois justice system to make the perpetrator answer for his actions - you now claim that you cannot provide evidence of your claims because of the impact it might have on the actions of the same bourgeois justice system.

How fascinating.
how facetious

This has been explained why the very victim themselves. Your bullshit is a bit too strong here. I quote: "The reason why I haven't gone to the police is that I know it would end with him going free anyway. It took me a year to realize that I had been subjected to a rape. I wouldn't be able to endure a process where I constantly would be mistrusted."
And the victim should be supported in dealing with the consequences and the impact of the assault and validated in this view of not pursuing legal redress - but again, the victim may (or may not) change her mind in the future.

I am not arguing that the judicial system is always useless. I am arguing it is irrelevant in this case, as the victim has no intention of going to it.
As above - what is clear is that the victim wants to make public the assault by the perpetrator and wants some form of redress. I would argue that you cannot predict what the victim may want to do in the future and you should act accordingly and not assume that the public 'outing' will suffice in assisting the victim in getting appropriate redress.

RS has done no such thing, quite obviously. It has engaged in harassment and cover-ups.
More claims with no evidence.

I will say this again so that my views on this matter are clear

I am not in Sweden - in fact I am located more than 1,500KM from Gothenburg - so the basis of my views come from the comments on this forum and libcom.

I fully accept that the claims of the victim are valid.
I fully agree that the RS should act decisively in dealing with the perpetrator
I sincerely hope that the RS have offered their help and assistance to the victim (it is the decision of the victim to accept this or not).
I sincerely hope that the victim is being supported by the people who have been and are publicising this incident.
I firmly believe that the victims of rape should seek the assistance of the criminal process (despite its deep flaws) in bringing perpetrators of sexual violence to justice (even capitalist justice) and I say that in the full knowledge that many victims feel that the cannot go through the legal process that does not treat the victims of sexual violence in an appropriate fashion.
I believe that victims should receive all the social, community, political and economic support necessary for the victim to dealt with the consequences of the assault and the outcome of any subsequent developments. Of course this is not the case in a capitalist society but that does not mitigate the necessity to fight for the rights of the victims of rape and other forms of sexual violence.

I am troubled by the accusations of a cover-up by the RS as an organisation and by individual members of the RS
I am deeply concerned by accusations of harassment and 'direct street violence' that it is implied the RS is involved in.
I have not seen any concrete evidence to back up the claims of harassment, direct street violence or cover-up made about the RS.
I would argue that such accusations should not be made without providing clear evidence to back up the accusations.
I will await further developments that I hope will make clear the role of RS one way or the other.

P.S. - the discussion over the past few minutes relating to the treatment of the victims of rape and other forms of sexual violence is valid and demonstrates the problems involved. There are limited forms of redress for victims in a capitalist society. It is important that victims (if they feel it is appropriate) should be able to seek legal redress and it is important that rapists do not feel they have a free pass because of the nature of the justice system. I do not agree with Vigilante violence as it does nothing to help the victims outside of exacting revenge. Unfortunately revenge rarely results in any comfort for victims. Socialists need to fight for the rights of the victims of sexual violence - I have spent more than 20 years campaigning for the removal of judges who demonstrate antipathy or aversion to the victims of sexual violence and in a very (very) small way have influenced some progressive changes on this issue.

Hrafn

5th June 2014, 00:53

'investigation' and 'inquiry' are not the same - and it has nothing to do with linguistics and everything to do with process and intent.

Investigating something and inquiring into a matter is the same thing, in my mind, and I'm sure most people who like you see a differentiation can come up with that on their own.

And I wholeheartedly disagree with your accusation of apologism

Etc. etc. etc.

Ask the TTV

My understanding is that the EC of the RS published at least one statement on TTV that was deleted.

That is not my understanding. But I am of course not sure - I'm not associated with TTV, after all.

Yes you have - and it is concerning that you are adopting this attitude

Your attitudes are the concerning ones.

Produce evidence for this assertion

For example, randomly calling around female ex-members to see if they were the raped one - as described earlier in this thread - before any type of "inquiry" (or whatever you wish to call it today) had begun.

Where? - produce one comment I made where I stated or implied the RS were covering up anything

"And I would regard this as an appropriate step." - Jolly Red Fucking Giant.

Can you predict the future?

Yes, obviously. I'm a wizard.

And I know the statistics. Especially on year-old rape cases where there is no physical evidence.

Maybe you will again accuse me of being a 'lingual authoritarian' but there is a massive difference between 'telling' and 'encouraging'.
One is to attempt to force someone to do something they may not want to do - the other is to offer support and encouragement to reach a decision that could be argued as appropriate for dealing with the abuse while assuring the victim will be validated in whatever decision they arrive at.

"Encouraging" can be read many ways, especially considering the in my opinion outright villainous and apologist tone you display throughout your posts.

more crystal ball stuff.

More struth.

true - you claimed (without providing any evidence) that it was related to direct street violence

I don't see your point. Please make yourself more clear. All these quotes are making me a bit lost in the debate.

So after being utterly dismissive of any suggestion I make of using the bourgeois justice system to make the perpetrator answer for his actions - you now claim that you cannot provide evidence of your claims because of the impact it might have on the actions of the same bourgeois justice system.

I don't care much for the case in itself. I care because I have been asked to keep silent, by someone I consider a friend, as to not endanger their perceived interests. If a friend, an acquaintance of a friend, or anyone I give a damn about, was subjected to violence, I would not blab about the details on a public forum unless they gave me permission to.

how facetious

How fabulous.

More claims with no evidence.

The evidence is quite clear.

Edit: I may not be very quick in responding for a while. This system of quote upon quote is very hard for me to use on a phone, and I wouldn't have access to a real computer for a while.

Hrafn

5th June 2014, 00:54

That is upsetting. I quite liked her posts.

Me too. :( Rosa brought a much needed element to many discussions.

Jolly Red Giant

5th June 2014, 01:38

I may not be very quick in responding for a while. This system of quote upon quote is very hard for me to use on a phone, and I wouldn't have access to a real computer for a while.
Okay lets deal with the most pertinent points without using quotes.

You assert that I implied a cover-up by RS by saying their actions were appropriate. I suggested that they acted appropriately in fully inquiring into all the evidence before issuing any statement or making any comment - there is a massive difference. And by the way - the personal insults are not necessary - as I said previously - stick your hostility in a box and address the discussion in an appropriate fashion.

If you are unsure about the actions of TTV then I suggest that you find out if they have deleted a statement by RS before you accuse RS of not making a statement on the matter.

Let's discuss the claim of 'randomly calling ex-members and asking them if they were raped'. Who made these calls? was there any discussion of what was happening and what RS was attempting to inquire about? Were the individuals involved told that their right to privacy was acknowledged and they did not have to provide any information if they didn't want to? was the call preceded by a request to discuss the issue? was the call merely a bald question of 'were you raped?' how long did the calls last? was the implications of the call outlined to the individuals? did you talk to any of the individuals who received these calls?

I also know the statistics in relation to one year old rape cases without any physical evidence - indeed the stats are worse in my country than they are in Sweden. However, if there is a series of accusations it can demonstrate a pattern of abuse and would strengthen the case against the perpetrator. And I am saying this while acknowledging that the victims may not want to pursue that avenue of redress.

In relation to my use of the word 'encouraging' - now you are interpreting what I say to assert your own contention (and you liberally toss in more personal abuse in the process). I never once suggested that any pressure of any description be put on any victim of sexual violence to do anything they were uncomfortable with or felt they were unable to do. I suggested that many victims can be encouraged to follow through on their claims as an appropriate action and with the full support network needed to follow this course of action - it can assist the process of healing and it can highlight the actions of their abuser. To suggest that I was using the word 'encouraging' as a form of coercion is utterly disingenuous.

You have repeatedly made claims about the actions of RS and individual RS members using terms like 'harassment', 'cover-up' and 'direct street violence'. I have suggested that you provide concrete evidence for these accusations. You have made claims that you have said you cannot produce evidence for because you have been asked not to. I would suggest that if this is the case then it would be appropriate not to make the accusations until you have authority to produce the evidence. Without the evidence you are engaged in supposition and it is not appropriate given the serious nature of the initial accusations. Furthermore in your latest comment you have implied that your 'friend' was subjected to physical violence in relation to this issue. If this is not the case then I suggest that you clarify what you are actually saying (and then refrain from further comment).

In my opinion the accusations being tossed around on this thread in relation to the actions of RS do not stand up to scrutiny without the provision of further evidence (and I mean evidence, not supposition). I accept the serious nature of the original complaint and I accept that the RS has to act in an appropriate and decisive fashion - but I have yet to see anything concrete to demonstrate that the RS has done anything untoward in the process.

Hrafn

5th June 2014, 10:43

You assert that I implied a cover-up by RS by saying their actions were appropriate. I suggested that they acted appropriately in fully inquiring into all the evidence before issuing any statement or making any comment - there is a massive difference. And by the way - the personal insults are not necessary - as I said previously - stick your hostility in a box and address the discussion in an appropriate fashion.

Let's discuss the claim of 'randomly calling ex-members and asking them if they were raped'. Who made these calls? was there any discussion of what was happening and what RS was attempting to inquire about? Were the individuals involved told that their right to privacy was acknowledged and they did not have to provide any information if they didn't want to? was the call preceded by a request to discuss the issue? was the call merely a bald question of 'were you raped?' how long did the calls last? was the implications of the call outlined to the individuals? did you talk to any of the individuals who received these calls?

You have repeatedly made claims about the actions of RS and individual RS members using terms like 'harassment', 'cover-up' and 'direct street violence'. I have suggested that you provide concrete evidence for these accusations. You have made claims that you have said you cannot produce evidence for because you have been asked not to. I would suggest that if this is the case then it would be appropriate not to make the accusations until you have authority to produce the evidence. Without the evidence you are engaged in supposition and it is not appropriate given the serious nature of the initial accusations. Furthermore in your latest comment you have implied that your 'friend' was subjected to physical violence in relation to this issue. If this is not the case then I suggest that you clarify what you are actually saying (and then refrain from further comment).

In my opinion the accusations being tossed around on this thread in relation to the actions of RS do not stand up to scrutiny without the provision of further evidence (and I mean evidence, not supposition). I accept the serious nature of the original complaint and I accept that the RS has to act in an appropriate and decisive fashion - but I have yet to see anything concrete to demonstrate that the RS has done anything untoward in the process.

No, you supported stonewalling the issue, vehemently removing all evidence of its existence from Facebook pages, and so on. That is covering up the report.

I do not know the exact details of the calls, except the information that has been provided by people I trust, that I know as good comrades and good people. They all, independently, assert that they have been called by members of the local party leadership, and bluntly asked if they were the one making the accusations.

What concrete evidence do you want? It's all there in the statements, and in what I've witnessed myself on Facebook, except for the situation which I have been asked not to describe in detail. I won't comment further on the case. I thought it'd just be a side note but you just won't drop it.

Your dedicated attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the whole situation are quite disturbing.

Jolly Red Giant

5th June 2014, 15:46

No, you supported stonewalling the issue, vehemently removing all evidence of its existence from Facebook pages, and so on. That is covering up the report.

I do not know the exact details of the calls, except the information that has been provided by people I trust, that I know as good comrades and good people. They all, independently, assert that they have been called by members of the local party leadership, and bluntly asked if they were the one making the accusations.

What concrete evidence do you want? It's all there in the statements, and in what I've witnessed myself on Facebook, except for the situation which I have been asked not to describe in detail. I won't comment further on the case. I thought it'd just be a side note but you just won't drop it.

Your dedicated attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the whole situation are quite disturbing.
You claim that RS has removed information from facebook pages yet fail to address the fact that TTV removed at least one statement from the EC of the RS relating to the assault and then claimed that the RS have failed to address/acknowledge the issue. I have no idea if RS have removed comments from a facebook page but I would suggest that if accusations were posted without evidence then it is an appropriate response. What is clear is that RS have acknowledged the fact that an assault took place, have regarded the accusations as being very serious and in my opinion, have endeavored to deal with it in a swift and comprehensive fashion in accordance with the rules of the RS. If the rules are found wanting then that is a different matter and I am sure will be addressed by the RS at the earliest opportunity.

You say you don't know the details of the calls but then claim that people were called by members of the local party leadership, and bluntly asked if they were the one making the accusations. So which is it - do you know the details of the calls or not? Furthermore, you state that the information comes from people you trust - with all due respect I do not know you and I do not know the people you trust so I will remain cautious about any claims you are making until there is clear evidence to substantiate these claims. I would expect you to do exactly the same thing. I know some of the individuals involved in the leadership of the RS and believe that everything they have done in the past demonstrates that they would approach dealing with these claims in a comprehensive fashion and act accordingly. I do not expect you to accept this - but you should acknowledge that until I see evidence to the contrary I am entitled to hold this view.

I will tell you what concrete evidence I want - you claim that members of the RS are engaged in 'harassment', 'cover-up' and 'direct street violence' against individuals - in my opinion, there is nothing in any statements that I have seen that contain any specific evidence to back up the claims. I want to see specific examples of this 'harassment', clear evidence of how a 'cover-up' was organised and specific examples (including time, location and subjects) of 'direct street violence'. You state that you have evidence but you cannot reveal it - I argue that you should refrain from making public accusations until you can produce this evidence. This is an appropriate request given the severity of the claims. You state you thought it was a side issue but clearly you do not understand the gravity of the claims you are making about the RS as an organisation or individual members of the RS.

You state - Your dedicated attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the whole situation are quite disturbing.- so let me clearly state once again for your benefit my position -
1. I fully accept the claims of sexual assault perpetrated by a member of the RS in Gothenburg.
2. I acknowledge that the victim of this assault is telling the truth and deserves all the support and help she needs and I hope the RS is playing a role in that if the victim wants it.
3. I would argue that the perpetrator of this assault should be expelled from the RS and any further measures feasible to make the perpetrator answer for his actions should be pursued.
4. I am cautious about accepting claims by others that the RS have engaged in a 'cover-up', engaged in 'harassment' and have engaged in 'direct street violence' against people who have been subject to assault by the perpetrator and/or individuals highlighting the issue. I want to see clear concrete evidence for these claims.
5. It is possible that the RS have made some mistakes in how they have dealt with the issue - I don't know but I will accept it is possible. Dealing with any incident of sexual violence can be extremely difficult.
6. If you read everything I have written you should acknowledge that I have done nothing to undermine the legitimacy of the whole situation - you should accept that the issues I am raising relates not to the claims of a sexual assault, but to your (unsubstantiated) claims about the actions of the RS.

We could continue to go around in circles on this - I don't see the point. I hope and expect a speedy resolution of any outstanding issues relating to the RS. When you are in a position to reveal more information to substantiate your claims I am willing and open to look at the evidence you produce and respond accordingly.

LuÃs Henrique

5th June 2014, 16:19

some days ago, I saw some horrible discussion on a feminist blog, with a woman shaming other women, survivors of sexual assault, who rejected to report. She was like, it's your duty to report, I myself did report and it was hard, but if I could do it, you can also do it and stuff. This was so goddamn gross. I guess if someone really doesn't want to, they have their reasons, and it's most probably good ones. Women know what expects them when reporting and it's the police's fault that they feel this way.

Well, first of all, why does the victim need to report it herself (I know, that's how most Penal Codes treat it, but I am questioning the PCs too)? Shouldn't we struggle for change in legislation that allows anyone who has witnessed a rape to report it?

Second, things are bad enough when victims are on their own, but they get worse when the victim is part of any kind of organisation (party, tendency, church, cult, sect, corporation, etc) that may press them into not reporting. In the case in point, if the victim of Stefan Berg goes to police and reports him, what does RS do? Support her and her quest for justice? Ignore the issue? Expell her for fingering an activist (albeit suspended) to the State security apparatus? Pretend to ignore, but allow the rest of the membership to ostracise her?

Luís Henrique

Jolly Red Giant

5th June 2014, 22:06

what does RS do?

Support her and her quest for justice? Absolutely

Ignore the issue? The RS haven't ignored the issue to date - why would they if the victim sought to use the justice system for redress

Expell her for fingering an activist (albeit suspended) to the State security apparatus? I don't know if the victim is a member of the RS but if she is then - the perpetrator deserves to be held accountable for his actions - why would or should a left organisation take any action against a victim of sexual assault as a result of the victim choosing to use the state justice system. Any left organisaton that would adopt the approach that capitalist justice should simply be condemned irrespective of the issue, is not living in the real world.

Pretend to ignore, but allow the rest of the membership to ostracise her?That would actually be the worst of all eventualities as it would treat the victim with utter disdain.

Hubbabubba

6th June 2014, 01:45

I am the rape survivor who chose to out Stefan Berg through TTV. I have followed this discussion and I really don't like the way it's going. I feel that I need to clarify a few things. Everything that Hrafn has written correlates with my experiences of how RS has handled this situation. I thought that the group that conducted the first investigation did so really well. The problem is that the party, despite the evidence against Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali, chose to value them over the women they wronged.

I have not, since the first investigation appointed by RS started, received any kind of offer of support or help by the party and several other people who chose to not be anonymous in the investigation have been harassed and badly treated by RS and especially by the Gothenburg section, Amer Mohammed Ali, Kristofer Lundberg and Stefan Berg and their friends. The people who have been harassed includes survivors of sexual violence by Stefan Berg. All of this at the same time that Stefan still haven't been expelled from the party should shatter any illusions regarding RS's rape apologism.

Furthermore I will not in any future report the rape to the police for reasons I have already explained and which other people in this discussion have also.

MMillions

6th June 2014, 16:41

PhoenixAsh

6th June 2014, 19:25

I have several huge reservations with some of the arguments that are made in this thread. So let me say the following:

1). False rape accusations do happen. But rarely.

Making statements like this which allude to the fact that it often happen that these accusations are false ignore an obvious reality. This reality is that victims of rape are more often than not met with extreme reservation and distrust towards their statement. Even with clear indisputable evidence of violence towards the victim, this is the reality victims face. The investigations are based on a presumption of innocence towards the suspect andpresumption of guilt towards the victim. In this reality investigations not only often simply fall short, are bungled or simply stalled but they also put incredible pressure on the victim. Since rape usually happen in secluded or private situations it is an incredibly difficult crime to proof. There is NO data supporting the assertion that these false allegations often happen. Stating this actually perpetuates rape culture and the "rape myth" and it doesn't serve anything else to state this.

I find it very problematic to read such statements on RevLeft.

2). It is a victims decision how to deal with rape.

If they decide to go through with legal action they should be supported. If they state they do not want to go to that horrible process then they should be supported.

It is their choice and their choice alone. NOBODY besides the victim should be able to decide towards legal actions. A third party accusation and legal action obviously will force the victim into a process which may be very unwelcome and traumatizing.

3). The word convincing in the sentence "convincing the victim" is problematic

Especially when the victim stated they do NOT want to take legal actions...nobody should try to convince them.

I have no problem with people helping victims and giving them advice when they are asked. However...that advice should be with the best interest of the victim in mind and should not ignore the problems they could face. After all you are only giving advice. You are not the one who have to go through them.

From experience (having been a victim and from counseling victims) a majority of victims who did start legal actions would not advice others to do the same...

Advising and convincing however are two very, very different things.

Convincing is an action which wants to get somebody to see your point of view against their own. When somebody has made up their mind you are pressuring them to change it. Sometimes this is valid when there is an objective truth or a reality which causes little harm. However this is not the reality of the legal process for a rape victim; nor does it create a reality where justice is supposedly served....the outcome is already heavily skewed from the start. But the convincing party, UNLESS they went through the same ordeal, has no fucking clue what the victim experiences and even if they went through it the experience is very subjective. So HOW can you convince somebody of a non existent truth when you never experienced what a victim went through?

4). Convincing done by a party/organization is dangerous.

This convincing is already hard when some individual does it.

But when it is done by a party or organization (especially from some political motivation)...there is an extremely fine line between convincing and pressuring. Parties and organizations are NOT human beings. They are institutions which have their own goal, interest and agenda. This agenda, interest or goal can intersect with that of the victim...but it rarely considers the victim before the interest/goal or agenda.

This approach can be very problematic especially when the culprit is somebody from the organization/party.

Anything other than support and fully accepting and respecting the wishes of the victim is simply a no go area imo.

LuÃs Henrique

6th June 2014, 20:45

Absolutely

Glad to hear that. It would be even better to hear that from the victims, though.

The RS haven't ignored the issue to date - why would they if the victim sought to use the justice system for redress

For the eternal "reason" why leftist organisations cover up crimes committed by their cadres - to protect the "secrets" of the organisation in its fight against the system.

I don't know if the victim is a member of the RS but if she is then - the perpetrator deserves to be held accountable for his actions - why would or should a left organisation take any action against a victim of sexual assault as a result of the victim choosing to use the state justice system.

Same as above.

Any left organisaton that would adopt the approach that capitalist justice should simply be condemned irrespective of the issue, is not living in the real world.

Maybe; in that case I would say that the overwhelming majority of leftist organisations do not live in the real world (which, on a second thought, would explain a lot).

That would actually be the worst of all eventualities as it would treat the victim with utter disdain.

The worst, and I dare say, the most probable one.

Luís Henrique

LuÃs Henrique

6th June 2014, 21:06

1). False rape accusations do happen. But rarely.

I don't know how many of rape accusations are false; numbers I have seen range from 2% to 40%. But 0% and 100% are numbers I have never seen.

2). It is a victims decision how to deal with rape.

Well, of course it is. Whether it should be, or not, is a different issue.

But if there is no reporting, then there will be no State action.

If they state they do not want to go to that horrible process then they should be supported.

True. However, the real problem here is this:

horrible process

If it is a horrible process, it is well past time that we make it no longer horrible. This isn't possible without reporting.

Further, when we say that the process is "horrible", we are unwittingly playing to the rape culture. Propagating the idea that the process is horrible is not "supporting" victims who want to report.

3). The word convincing in the sentence "convincing the victim" is problematic

Well, it is. Not the 'word', indeed, but the actions involved in "convincing". Refraining from any opinion is equally problematic, as it is scaring the victim away from reporting, etc.

From experience (having been a victim and from counseling victims) a majority of victims who did start legal actions would not advice others to do the same...

This is far more problematic, I think, than realising that some accusations of rape might be false.

4). Convincing done by a party/organization is dangerous.

I see very little risk of parties or organisations "convincing" rape victims to report - and a lot more risk of parties or organisations trying to convince them to not report.

Luís Henrique

LuÃs Henrique

6th June 2014, 21:18

I am the rape survivor who chose to out Stefan Berg through TTV.

Well. What can I say? It is difficult to even utter feelings about such an issue. I hope you fully recover, and I hope no one pressures you into doing this or that.

Everything that Hrafn has written correlates with my experiences of how RS has handled this situation. I thought that the group that conducted the first investigation did so really well. The problem is that the party, despite the evidence against Kristofer Lundberg and Amer Mohammed Ali, chose to value them over the women they wronged.

I fear they have chosen to value Berg over those women (over you, as it is), too.

I don't know what the findings of the internal investigation where, but if they found Berg guilty of rape, it is very difficult to me to understand why he hasn't been expelled. He would have been expelled for embezzlement, wouldn't he?

I have not, since the first investigation appointed by RS started, received any kind of offer of support or help by the party and several other people who chose to not be anonymous in the investigation have been harassed and badly treated by RS and especially by the Gothenburg section, Amer Mohammed Ali, Kristofer Lundberg and Stefan Berg and their friends.

That's what I would fear is happening. It seems very difficult to me to believe otherwise, given the strong ties of loyalty that usually bind members of a political organisation; and of course, the impunity of Ali and Lundberg, and the slap on Berg's wrist point to a non-solution. As you say,

The people who have been harassed includes survivors of sexual violence by Stefan Berg. All of this at the same time that Stefan still haven't been expelled from the party should shatter any illusions regarding RS's rape apologism.

Furthermore I will not in any future report the rape to the police for reasons I have already explained and which other people in this discussion have also.

While I respect your decision, I think it is wrong, and that it reinforces those who are doing the things you describe above.

Luís Henrique

Hubbabubba

7th June 2014, 11:17

I appreciate you clarifying things in this thread. If you don't mind me asking, are you the first or second survivor?

The second.

Anglo-Saxon Philistine

7th June 2014, 12:24

I appreciate you clarifying things in this thread. If you don't mind me asking, are you the first or second survivor?

Is it really smart to be asking identifying questions in a case such as this?

MMillions

7th June 2014, 12:32

Is it really smart to be asking identifying questions in a case such as this?

Point taken. To clarify my post: it was not intended as a way to identify anyone, more to try to make sense of the chronology of the accusations and how the RS has dealt with them. Apologies if it were taken as such.

Hubbabubba

7th June 2014, 13:02

Is it really smart to be asking identifying questions in a case such as this?

It was obvious from the first moment of the outing that the second survivor (me) was the one that outed through TTV. So it really isn't an identifying question. I appreciate that you react however.

Hrafn

7th June 2014, 17:40

I, uh, really didn't expect Hubbabubba to show up here. A most pleasant surprise. Welcome. I just hope I've been able to provide decent enough translations, and that I don't cause any discomfort by posting texts and images without any prior warning other than then initial ones. I get so anxious about offending people's sensibilities. :unsure:

There's been a lot of discussion and debate going on since I last wrote here, it's become somewhat unmanageable to oversee it all on a mobile device (I'm rather permanently in lack of a stationary computer for a while) so I'll just trust in that all arguments I'd like to make have been sufficiently detailed by others (thanks Hubba and PhoenixAsh especially).

Sasha

7th June 2014, 18:56

Thank you Hubbabubba for making an acount and having the courage to post here, if there is anything bothering you or someone gives you shit please contact me or if you prefer one of the female admins (quail, madamme ovaries) through PM and we will get on it asap.
i wish you strength with what you are going through, maybe you can find also some positive distraction in the rest of the forum.
I also lifted the 10post moderation treshold for you so you can instantly reply to posts in this threads and not have to wait for a mod or admin aproving your post.

Hrafn

8th June 2014, 11:06

I thought I'd post an interesting side note. The following article was written by Kristofer Lundberg, harasser of sexual abuse victims extraordinaire and professional Socialist Justice Party cadre, and posted on RS Gothenburg's website on the fifth of June.

Swedish original: http://rsgoteborg.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/nathat-internetbaserad-chockdoktrin/ (based on the level of spelling, grammar and formatting, which reminds me of my own frequent faults, I'd say the text was rushed and not given a second corrective glance)

Online hate: Internet-based shock doctrine

Violations of the personal integrity online have increased explosively, according to the Data Inspection. They state that they are contacted daily by people who have been violated online. To slander, harass and threaten are serious crimes, yet the crimes are seldom prosecuted.

http://i.imgur.com/ACkOiZ5.jpg

The online hate takes place through social forums, emails, blogs and text messages. The purpose is to cause maximal damage to a person or organization.

The online hate and its slander campaigns are usually directed towards a specific person, not seldom a public figure. The hate is also directed towards an entire ethnic group or organization.

Online haters can have different motives and intents and can be both a single action and the work of an organized group, but the method is the same. Unfounded accusations are turned into truth by rumour spreading. It can be about intimidation or making it so uncomfortable for the person attacked that they choose not to defend themselves.

Marie Demker, professor of political science at Gothenburg University writes in GP [Hrafn's note: Göteborgs-Posten, major liberal daily newspaper] on April 24 2014: "Hate crimes and collective hate is as old as mankind. Never before has the ability to make yourself heard been as large as now."

The spreading of false rumours, online hate and slander can have fatal [Hrafn's note: Can only assume "ödesdigra" is meant, as "ödestigliga" is not a real word] consequences. A 13-year old girl from Kumla was pressured to take her own life by online hate in 2013. "The police suspected a short time after the girl's suicide that online hate could be behind it", Metro reported March 11 2013.

The online hate doesn't only affect the individual but can also be about influencing the political debate, about scaring people to silence or at least push them away from the public space. The method is not seldom dirty with fictional claims and lies that are then repeated until it becomes accepted as truth.

"Both in Sweden and other countries there is research being conducted about online bullying, about online hate and extreme networks that use the internet to influence the debate", Demker writes.

Online hate directed towards public figures is about diminishing the confidence for the person, lowering their status or annihilating the person before others. By the use of internet anonymous writers, a person or group, try to make themselves prosecutor, judge and executilneer allt at once and try to do it so effectively that it becomes impossible or hard to defend yourself when the hate has spread or become commonly accepted,

When Minela Mahmutovic, Socialist Justice Party, was interviewed by GP on January 11 2013 due to what became known as the Instagram rebellion [Hrafn's note: Long story short, Instagram-based outings of "sluts" caused a minor youth riot] she said: "We will see more Instagram rebellions. Online hate is not a prioritized matter for the police. Then you have to take the matter into your own hands."

Minela Mahmutovic and Irma Mahmutovic, both members of RS, were frequently interviewed by the media after having participated in restarting the "Refuse to be called a whore" campaign in Gothenburg. After the Instagram rebellion they acted quickly and organized hundreds of youths into a manifestation against sexual harassment online.

To GP they stated: "The priority for these cases is low. Many see no other way out than taking the matter into their own hands. And in the same way as the internet provides the opportunity to hate, there is also the opportunity to mobilize against the hate here."

The most well-known online haters are the racist bloggers and online trolls, but they are far from the only ones who use online hate as a political method against political opponents.

Fabrictions and lies are mixed together with truth to increase the credibility about the claim which otherwise would be obvious fiction. Fundamentally it is about a desire of pushing back and outing someone who you dislike, alternatively a whole organization.

"The problem with the online hate won't be resolved by us trying to discuss with those who are behind the attacks. They are namely not interested in listening", Lisa Magnusson writes at SVT Debatt.

Marie Demker is onto the same line: "... they are listened to. But it isn't enough. They say that "we" aren't listening - but they mean that "we" aren't doing as they want us to." Demker continues: "The truth is the old usual one, that people online are driven by the same forces as IRL - political interest, ideological conviction and social networks."

Those who are behind the online hate aren't interested in the truth, they are only focused on putting their own agenda with the use of a type of internet-based shock doctrine, where they can put the agenda by intimidating others to silence. But these groups often have little reality perception about the true situation that exists outside of the internet.

Kristofer Lundberg

To Kristofer Lundberg, if he was to happen to read this, I ask: Have you no shame?

http://i.imgur.com/ydmH5GM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MW5udEV.jpg

former french CWI member

15th June 2014, 21:34

About the same thing happened in the french section of CWI and no one speaks about it. I have been really shocked at that time and i'm shocked again to see that happened twice. Of course there are differencies but the similarities are disturbings.Their full timer acted the same way and was expelled for a year and then reintegrated in september 2013 after a witch hung against the people who tried to fight against his coming back in the party. The international leadership of CWI fully accepted that. I can give more details if someone asks for.

Hrafn

15th June 2014, 22:47

former french CWI member

15th June 2014, 23:13

I paste what i posted a few days ago here : http://libcom.org/forums/news/triggers-socialist-justice-party-sexual-assault-scandal-26052014#comment-539390

The CWI is a really tiny group in france called Gauche Révolutionnaire, they were nether more than 50. I joined them in 2008 and left in 2013. I and others young people understood in 2012 that the full timer ( national secretary ) was deeply alcoholic and a few month after we realised he tried systematicaly to have sex with young scool students members ( he was 40 ). When one of them complained about him getting naked in the middle of the night, or tring to kiss a 16 y old contact of the organisation, all others said they saw similar things. And a few weeks after one of them said it was far worse for her and that he forced her to do things that are so terrible that i don't want to give details there.
At that time i thought : ok, there are crazy people in the world, why not in the party. If we expell him and develop a proper politic for this not to be possible amongst us then i would be able to continue there.
But we had to fight so hard to expell him ! I was part of the national leadership, and i was at the first rank for these horors. At the beginning the national leaders accepted this was really huge and suspended him as they were really chocked and surprised. but only two week after they wanted him back ! At that time the international leadership supported us and said we need to expell him, so the national leaders said the international leadership is rotten, and moralist as we are and petty bourgeois and so on. Then they said this was not rape but only a complicated relationship. in june 2012 helped by one of the belgium CWI leader we had him expelled at the end of the day because the leadership thought it had no other choice, but at the first vote something like 8 voted in favor and 8 against it ! at the last moment i proposed to add in the voted text that this explusion can not be reversible for a year at least. I thought this was a detail and that if he leave no one will want him back anytime. I was fully wrong ! in semptember 2012 i understood they wanted him back as soon as possible and they asked for meetings with him in order to make everything ready for his coming back in june. At that time the part of the leadership i was in, that fight against him and for a proper antisexist politic was aweaken by that battle and was not able to build the party because of that and because of the fact it was much youger than the other part of the leadership. When the international leadership of the CWI realised that they totally changed their minds ! they suddenly said he need to come back and supported the otherside ! They were incredibly opportunistic on that. The only thing that matters for them is : what side will be able to maintain a group in france for us. whatever if they defend a rapist !
I left in february 2013 when they voted 10 in favor 2 against one abstention ( i was against ) that we need to create a special status for that guy to be a priviledged partner of the organisation in order to make it possible for him to be back in june.
They nether stopped to pay him during that time.

i may not have been very clear and i'm sorry for my bad english. I would answer to question if you have some.

blake 3:17

15th June 2014, 23:22

Hrafn

15th June 2014, 23:30

I need to deal with the rest of life at the moment -- or not -- I'd be very interested as well. BUT none of this is a surprise and none of this is new and this is certainly not anything to do this with the CWI or with Trotskyism (although circumstances might vary things this way or that)

This stuff is rampant everywhere

This has everything to do with CWI. There are obviously deep structural problems and a rotten internal culture within its member groups. This needs to be exposed, and fixed.

blake 3:17

15th June 2014, 23:46

I need to deal with the rest of life at the moment -- or not -- I'd be very interested as well. BUT none of this is a surprise and none of this is new and this is certainly not anything to do this with the CWI or with Trotskyism (although circumstances might vary things this way or that)

This stuff is rampant everywhere

Edited to add: By "stuff" I mean sexual abuse and misconduct.

former french CWI member

16th June 2014, 16:46

former french CWI member

16th June 2014, 16:56

Sarry for double posting, i can't edit since i did not posted 10 times.
I just wanted to add : I post this story here also because i'm scandalised by the fact CWI in france is existing as is nothing nether happened. It look like they managed to hide that and to prevent their reputation to be too compromised and just expelled the members who refused to hide this and to keep the rapist. This is one of the most unacceptable things i lived in my life.

Crux

16th June 2014, 23:44

One of our admins is a member of the Swedish section of the CWI; perhaps he can give us an account of what is happening.

All this is somewhat ironic given their position concerning the rape allegations against Assange.:unsure:

Luís Henrique
Super ironic, bro.
I have left the CWI due to the current situation. This is not a statement nor do I feel I would truthfully be in a position to properly make one, although why I felt unable to remain a member should perhaps be obvious. As for why I'm not active on revleft much these days users like Luís here is a perfect example. At present, especially given the current situation, I don't have the energy. Suffice to say having left the CWI, an organization I have been with for years, I need to do a bit of soul searching. RS is not a big party. I know most of the people involved in these recent events which, beyond the issue of political principles, gives it another dimension and it's hit me quite hard. These are structural issues though and issues that go way beyond the CWI or indeed the particular organizational form. The reason I am saying this is not to in any way use the general to somehow excuse the specific what I am saying though is that I am in a pretty disillusioned place right now.

I'm not sure if I'll check back in to look at this thread but I felt that making a post was necessary in any case.

Hrafn

17th June 2014, 02:43

I think this is a question. Before i saw that in CWI I found the strucuture and the internal culture really nice. Is it really more in CWI than in the left generally ? probably because these two examples are incredibly close... how do you want to fix that hrafn ?

Well, I can't really critique anything, as as an anarchist I am wholly opposed to much of the whole system used by parties like those in the CWI, and it'd feel like I'm being opportunist to use this moment to espouse anarchistic ideology, but I must say I feel the way for example RS has been run, with its system of nepotist hierachies and what not, has led to this situation becoming what it is.

Hrafn

17th June 2014, 02:44

Crux, I appreciate you saying all that. Thank you for sharing.

former french CWI member

17th June 2014, 18:43

Super ironic, bro.
I have left the CWI due to the current situation. This is not a statement nor do I feel I would truthfully be in a position to properly make one, although why I felt unable to remain a member should perhaps be obvious. As for why I'm not active on revleft much these days users like Luís here is a perfect example. At present, especially given the current situation, I don't have the energy. Suffice to say having left the CWI, an organization I have been with for years, I need to do a bit of soul searching. RS is not a big party. I know most of the people involved in these recent events which, beyond the issue of political principles, gives it another dimension and it's hit me quite hard. These are structural issues though and issues that go way beyond the CWI or indeed the particular organizational form. The reason I am saying this is not to in any way use the general to somehow excuse the specific what I am saying though is that I am in a pretty disillusioned place right now.

I'm not sure if I'll check back in to look at this thread but I felt that making a post was necessary in any case.

I could have wrote just the same a year ago crux. It's strange for me to see how i felt the same way you do now. But i still have no real advice for you. You can still be proud of whut you did in CWI and proud again to leave when the time came...

Yes hrafn this is quite opportunistic :). I'm would quote here a post from http://libcom.org/forums/news/triggers-socialist-justice-party-sexual-assault-scandal-26052014
witch is to me a step forward in the debate and witch argues a bit against you.

proletarian. wrote:

Would you see a culture or spirit of competition, one of the many capitalist ideologies as also a problem along with rape culture? That might be more of a general question about combating bourgeois ideology inside revolutionary organisations though.
That's true about abuse by men in society generally but there are all kinds of abuse, most men do not rape people. All the sexual assaults I've had the sadness to hear about from these leftwing groups/cults have been by men in positions of relative power over others much like in a capitalist business.

I don't think it's that simple. I've definitely heard of cases in the SWP or similar, where the attacker was not in a position of power over other members - and they were just quietly expelled. The reason the cases that end up being public disputes involve men in positions of power is that being considered of more "value" to the organisation, the attempt is made to protect them.

Now it could be argued that the formal hierarchies of formal leadership and full-time paid officials in authoritarian left organisations aggravate this tendency towards double standards. But as Ablokeimet pointed out, the same dynamics can happen (and has happened) within anarchist groups, even if the status of the "valued comrade" had less formal recognition than the explicit leadership structures of the hierarchical left.

Hrafn

17th June 2014, 18:52

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're saying. :( Pretty mentally worn out at the moment.

former french CWI member

17th June 2014, 18:56

I edited some of the spelling mistakes i did in the post and if you want to get more of the debate arond the quote you can click on the link.
But the point was to say this can also happen amongst the anachists and people with power don't need to be recognised formally.
But i think ocelot explained it much better than i do.

Hrafn

17th June 2014, 19:11

I am quite aware that the same problem goes on among Anarchists, because Anarchist have structural problems too. I have myself seen a similar case, although one that more related to facilitating rape than carrying out rape. Just because CWI declares that their democratic centralism works, or some anarcho-syndicalist union says their horizontal organizing is perfect, doesn't make it true.

former french CWI member

17th June 2014, 21:52

You're right. But still it looks like CWI has something making it happen internationally. I think they there were things in england as well. Does somebody know more about that ?

Sentinel

3rd July 2014, 20:18

I have left the CWI due to the current situation. This is not a statement nor do I feel I would truthfully be in a position to properly make one, although why I felt unable to remain a member should perhaps be obvious. [...] . At present, especially given the current situation, I don't have the energy. Suffice to say having left the CWI, an organization I have been with for years, I need to do a bit of soul searching. RS is not a big party. I know most of the people involved in these recent events which, beyond the issue of political principles, gives it another dimension and it's hit me quite hard. These are structural issues though and issues that go way beyond the CWI or indeed the particular organizational form. The reason I am saying this is not to in any way use the general to somehow excuse the specific what I am saying though is that I am in a pretty disillusioned place right now.

I'm not sure if I'll check back in to look at this thread but I felt that making a post was necessary in any case.

I don't think I could have explained my own feelings any better than Crux did here above. I have just today finally formally quit as a member of the CWI myself due to this crisis, and similarly it has been a very strenght-consuming, exhausting and depressing process for me. Not only due to rational, political, reasons but also deeply personal ones (knowing the people involved etc).

While I have now taken the ultimate decision to resign, I do not for the time being feel comfortable with taking part in more indepth public discussions on the subject of the CWI, an organisation I have spent lots of time and energy building until very recently, and which in my opinion still contains many brilliant individuals, committed socialists.

So for now, I am also simply going to let my resignation speak for itself.

Now a process of reorientation begins for me. I am forever a revolutionary socialist, but now quite unsure of the appropriate tendency or organisation for someone with my particular ideological positions. While I as a communist hardly could stand being inactive forever, I am going to let this process take it's due time - and also use the occasion to attend to my own personal needs as a human being which I have for a long time neglected.

So while I intend to spend the near future taking distance to formal organisations while reinventing my political self-image, who knows. Maybe even the discussions on this website can once more come to play a role in guiding me to a political home, as they once did, all those years ago..?

See you all on the forums, and outside them in the struggle for socialism, in all it's different forms.

Hrafn

3rd July 2014, 21:20

Sentinel, I admire your decision. It's not easy leaving something you have spent so much time and effort into, even though you feel staying is wrong. I've been in similar situations. Best of luck in finding a way of continuing your work that you feel comfortable with.

Hrafn

7th September 2014, 10:16

Several months in. Still, to my knowledge, no official statement from RS. Just - according to what I've heard - continued harassment of the people involved.

Bea Arthur

7th September 2014, 14:42

Might this be the result of Leninist cults being a bulwark of patriarchal norms and attitudes? I think so.

Hrafn

14th September 2014, 13:48

Election day today. Stefan Berg the rapist is off the ballots. Sadly, his accomplices remain, as no. 1 and no. 4 in Gothenburg Municipality, no. 6 and no. 8 in Västra Götaland County, and no. 3 and no. 15 in the Riksdag.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10646877_10153153946448219_6280253462297279015_n.j pg?oh=51fa1e6f7f9822929cdf22ec09892f0f&oe=548B4D15&__gda__=1418129472_41a4825f6cd68859fa59fea8515a3e2 8

I took a look at the rapist's Facebook page today, since I was bored. On the 9th of September he posted a photo relating to the elections, which was liked by 28 people, like half a dozen of which I recognized as more or less prominent RS members (he has previously kept posting RS-related stuff). One person who commented is an RS member who has been previously accused of date rape, and I have faith in that victim's statement on the issue. What a wonderful time to be alive, to see people get away scot-free.

Ismail

16th September 2014, 22:56

Might this be the result of Leninist cults being a bulwark of patriarchal norms and attitudes? I think so.For what it's worth to you (not much considering your past posts on the forum), there was the Democratic Workers Party, which was led by a woman and with a largely female membership. There wasn't rape, but it was an actual political cult under the guise of a Leninist party.

So no, the issue is one of accountability and inner-party democracy.

Quorthon

31st March 2015, 17:32

I've been following this case, and found this thread, so I thought I'd provide a little bit of follow up, Since the apparent cover-up carried out by the Socialist Justice Party seems to have been a success. People have stopped talking about this. The party did lose a lot of members in the beginning, but since then, nothing seems to have happened.

I'm politically active in Stockholm, where the party's (RS) national leadership is based, and have collaborated with the party through other organisations. I've never been a member, but know alot of members (and ex-members).

I read about this case and talked about it with people from RS in the spring and beginning of summer. But I was never really clear on the role of Amer Mohammed and Kristofer Lundberg. I mostly discussed why Stefan Berg wasn't expelled back then.
Well, time passed and summer became autumn. I still hadn't heard about what became of Stefan Berg and the counter-investigation. I still hadn't heard any official statement from the party about what had happened, even though the protocol from the party board meeting of 18th of may states that the Executive Committée should prepare an official statement. I googled alot but couldn't find one word from RS about what had happened.

So what I did was I posted this simple question on their Facebook-page: Is the rapist expelled, and why hasn't there been an official statement about this? There's alot of people who read about the rapes and the investigation, and wonders what's going on (I formulated myself in another more complete way, but that was the core of it).

The comment was deleted almost instantly, and after a little while a leading RS-member I know contacted me on the phone. He said Stefan Berg had been expelled from the party. I questioned why there was no statement, no recognition of what had happened and what the party would be doing to ensure it would not happen again.
But he claimed the where the victims of a smear-campaign and therefore it would be playing in the hands of their opponents to say anything at all. So they would make no mention of it what so ever outside the party, except if someone asked them face to face, then they could talk about it. But they would not answer on an open forum like Facebook for example.

Smear campaign? There where two local Syndicalist Youth associations who made a statement distancing themselves from RS, and the FB-page who publicised the rape, TTV (Ta tillbaka välfärden), also criticized them heavily, but precisely BECAUSE of the cover up.

And how many people (especially the once most closely concerned - women and especially survivors) goes up to a party member they don't even know and discuss rape out of the blue?

He also claimed no leftist organisation who had this kind of scandal had ever dealt with it in an open manner before. I don't think that's true and even if it was it would be a shitty excuse. Like it's ok to cover up rape if other leftist organisations usually do the same.

I've discussed this with other prominent RS-members since and gotten the same exact answers.

So, bottom line: The party has NO intention to EVER talk openly about this, but aim to see it die down, which it obviously has. This they have confirmed to me, and it should be obvious by their continued silence.

They have no intentions of apologizing to the victims, or to publicly explain what went wrong within the party or how they will deal with those problems so that something similar will never happen again.

Ex-members who tried to raise these issues within the party after the decision to keep a lid on it have told me how they were treated very badly, ostracized, subjected to domination techniques and harassment.

Is this really the actions of a party who calls itself feminist, democratic and socialist?

Can we in the activist left let them (or any other group "within our ranks") get away with this type of behaviour and cover ups?