Feminist Views On Submissive Females (Sexually)?

[RA89]

Apologies in advance if this is a crude topic but reading through this forum made me curious about this issue (along with an article I read by a radical feminist who declared all sex between a male and female was rape). Also from reading other threads I gather a **trigger** warning could be necessary for the below (better to be safe than sorry).



Do Feminists (or any fraction of them) consider women who are into rough sex (playing the submissive role) as being corrupted or having a defect caused by patriarchy? I'm talking about heterosexual sex btw.

Many acts are much more common with the female on receiving end such as spanking, choking and other acts are exclusive to females being on the receiving end such as forceful fellatio (gagging - with consent).

Would a Feminist consider such activities as being demeaning? Or natural? Or both?

[RedWorker]

In BDSM dominant females are much more common than submissive females, although that also may be a result of patriarchy or whatever.

My personal opinion: People can have sex however the hell they want to, and somebody shouldn't treat the way people voluntarily interact with each other as a "disorder caused by how society works".

[RA89]

In BDSM dominant females are much more common than submissive females, although that also may be a result of patriarchy or whatever.

My personal opinion: People can have sex however the hell they want to, and somebody shouldn't treat the way people voluntarily interact with each other as a "disorder caused by how society works".

I agree with your opinion.

But my question to you, are the women who are into voluntarily being dominated sexually into it because of patriarchy?

[Tenka]

Many acts are much more common with the female on receiving end such as spanking, choking and other acts are exclusive to females being on the receiving end such as forceful fellatio (gagging - with consent).

Exclusive to females being on the receiving end? It is not so.
To respond to your question: it really depends on the context. It is both natural and demeaning. Natural, as you probably know, is not a synonym for "good" or "respectful" or whatever; at the same time, there exist some women who get off on that kind of demeaning. The structure of the relationship, what is agreed to by the women and why it is, all strongly affect the character of these kinds of interactions.

[RedWorker]

But my question to you, are the women who are into voluntarily being dominated sexually into it because of patriarchy?

There's no "one reason" for anything, but it could certainly be an influence; patriarchy could also drag women into wanting to be more dominant. In BDSM etc. men are commonly more submissive while women are more dominant, which seems to be in contradiction to patriarchy - and perhaps caused because of it.

[RA89]

Exclusive to females being on the receiving end? It is not so.
To respond to your question: it really depends on the context. It is both natural and demeaning. Natural, as you probably know, is not a synonym for "good" or "respectful" or whatever; at the same time, there exist some women who get off on that kind of demeaning. The structure of the relationship, what is agreed to by the women and why it is, all strongly affect the character of these kinds of interactions.

Gagging is exclusive to females isn't it? Females can be on the giving end of rough oral sex e.g. face sitting but that is different (not being penetrated in your throat).

Why would you say these acts are demeaning?

[consuming negativity]

In BDSM dominant females are much more common than submissive females, although that also may be a result of patriarchy or whatever.

Is this true? I'm not very familiar with the BDSM community, but I find that interesting. And what about the males?

[RA89]

Is this true? I'm not very familiar with the BDSM community, but I find that interesting. And what about the males?

It is true from what I've seen.

Usually women are the dominant ones, even where another women is the submissive.

Male dominated BDSM porn exists but there's more female dominated porn.

However in general there are much more females in porn than males so that could explain this trend tbh.

Another reason, rough sex with females on the receiving end is common on most porn sites, so I guess it makes sense for BDSM sites to have more material with dominant females since the former is already very readily available/common.

[Rosa Partizan]

I guess there can be several reasons for being submissive as a female. It can be porn socialization, rape culture, experiences with sexual abuse or whatever else there may be. I think that sexual preferences like being dominant or being submissive develop for some outer reason, something that hasn't necessarily to do with sex itself. So I find it important to confront yourself with why you like what you like, even if you cannot get behind the exact reasons. But I guess it can help you accept your preferences. I myself am a very committed feminist and on the other hand very submissive, without really being into that heavier BDSM stuff, but have tried a lot of things, cause I find the line between lust and pain very, very fine. The most important part apart from reflecting yourself is having a partner for that you're equal with. Someone who treats you with the respect you deserve and who respects when you draw the line, who considers you the human being you are and not some fleshy thing with holes he can use as he pleases.

[Tenka]

Gagging is exclusive to females isn't it? Females can be on the giving end of rough oral sex e.g. face sitting but that is different (not being penetrated in your throat).

Why would you say these acts are demeaning?

They are demeaning because of the submission--you kind of can't be a sub without accepting some things that would be widely considered "demeaning". There is the appearance of force, even if it was agreed to prior, etc.

And, because you were talking about hetero sex, I was thinking about submissive men throat-fucked with strap-ons. A quick google will confirm that this exists. If you search but cannot find, PM me and I will help.

P.S. sorry for answering you in reverse.
And of course, this is outside of mainstream sexist porn. The point is that it exists.

[Rafiq]

I think they it's much more honest - rough sex. And I think it almost transgresses - almost satirizes the connotations of power associated with passive and active sexual roles.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Do Feminists (or any fraction of them) consider women who are into rough sex (playing the submissive role)
Being submissive within BDSM doesn't necessarily equate to having rough sex, btw.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Is this true? I'm not very familiar with the BDSM community, but I find that interesting. And what about the males?

No, it's not really true. I've met just as many female subs as I have female doms. Some of us are also switches.

[alfasurs]

Just a thought. When it comes to sexual acts, it is better not to over analyze it or analyze it at all in terms of class dynamics. Note I said sexual acts, not gender or sexual orientation. I mean sexual acts only....why? Because such acts can't be held in the fist of reason....such acts lead to an irrational joy which no logic can grasp. So analyzing dom/sub in bed in the context of Dom/sub in the real world doesn't help one bit....the two are entirely different. In the latter there is oppression, in the former it is make believe intended to produce joy for both parties.

[RA89]

Just a thought. When it comes to sexual acts, it is better not to over analyze it or analyze it at all in terms of class dynamics. Note I said sexual acts, not gender or sexual orientation. I mean sexual acts only....why? Because such acts can't be held in the fist of reason....such acts lead to an irrational joy which no logic can grasp. So analyzing dom/sub in bed in the context of Dom/sub in the real world doesn't help one bit....the two are entirely different. In the latter there is oppression, in the former it is make believe intended to produce joy for both parties.

This could be true, but I was wondering if Feminists believed that patriarchy caused women to enjoy being sub the same way abuse to young people causes them to be more likely to abuse others when they grow older.

[RA89]

I guess there can be several reasons for being submissive as a female. It can be porn socialization, rape culture, experiences with sexual abuse or whatever else there may be. I think that sexual preferences like being dominant or being submissive develop for some outer reason, something that hasn't necessarily to do with sex itself. So I find it important to confront yourself with why you like what you like, even if you cannot get behind the exact reasons. But I guess it can help you accept your preferences. I myself am a very committed feminist and on the other hand very submissive, without really being into that heavier BDSM stuff, but have tried a lot of things, cause I find the line between lust and pain very, very fine. The most important part apart from reflecting yourself is having a partner for that you're equal with. Someone who treats you with the respect you deserve and who respects when you draw the line, who considers you the human being you are and not some fleshy thing with holes he can use as he pleases.

So if a Feminist woman believed she was a sub because of porn socialization or rape culture or experiences with sexual abuse etc would you consider her indulging in sub acts as throwing in the towel/giving in?
Since by doing those acts she is behaving in the way thing likes like porn socialisation/rape culture - which oppress her - makes/intends her to act.
Or do you have the mindset that even if the reasons for being sub are not good, you can't choose what turns you on so it is okay to accept it so long as the people involved respect each other and consent etc?

[RA89]

They are demeaning because of the submission--you kind of can't be a sub without accepting some things that would be widely considered "demeaning". There is the appearance of force, even if it was agreed to prior, etc.

And, because you were talking about hetero sex, I was thinking about submissive men throat-fucked with strap-ons. A quick google will confirm that this exists. If you search but cannot find, PM me and I will help.

P.S. sorry for answering you in reverse.
And of course, this is outside of mainstream sexist porn. The point is that it exists.

Fair point about the gagging not being exclusive to females being the sub, you're right I didn't think of that.

Is it still demeaning if both partners switch roles often? Or if the sub is the one who initiates/demands it?

If the sub enjoys doing things that are widely considered demeaning doesn't that take away the demeaning aspect?

I'm not sure if submission means that it has to be demeaning. I guess it depends on context and personal values, e.g. submitting in a fight would be demeaning particularly for a fighter who has lots of pride.
Whereas submitting in the bedroom by a kinky person would be more fun/sexual rather than demeaning.

[RA89]

Being submissive within BDSM doesn't necessarily equate to having rough sex, btw.

My bad, kept thinking of stereotypical BDSM scenes you're right.

[Rosa Partizan]

So if a Feminist woman believed she was a sub because of porn socialization or rape culture or experiences with sexual abuse etc would you consider her indulging in sub acts as throwing in the towel/giving in?
Since by doing those acts she is behaving in the way thing likes like porn socialisation/rape culture - which oppress her - makes/intends her to act.
Or do you have the mindset that even if the reasons for being sub are not good, you can't choose what turns you on so it is okay to accept it so long as the people involved respect each other and consent etc?

German feminists are kinda ambivalent about that. The one side says it's okay as long as you are aware of what you do and what may be behind it, the others say that you reproduce patriarchy by giving in to such sexual preferences. I understand the latter, but one of my inconsequent, hedonistic sides is that I don't give a fuck about it. I don't have the demand to be perfect, and I just don't enjoy too ordinary vanilla cuddle sex-stuff, even if I tried to.