Good books

[bubbrubb]

I want to learn about all your philosophies and stuff but i'm a fairly new member and i don't want to sound like a dumbass so help me out w/ some recomendations. Thanks

[Commie Girl]

:) Check under Literature....lots of good books there!

[Individual]

Currently reading Roger Scrutons "Art and Imagination"... It is an old book and hard to get a hold of. However his modern philosophy books should be good. He's also wrote a book on Kant, another philosopher. Haven't gotten around to getting/and or reading these, but heard they are very intelligent, yet written for the common person to comprehend.

For politics and some philosophy, I would recommend Noam Chomsky's books. He has quite a few, however I recommend "Secrets, Lies, and Democracy" and "Killing Hope".. Good reads and very informative.

There are thousands of great reads out there. If you are curious for more. Respond back with a certain type of book you are looking for. Certain views on philosophy, politics, history, etc. that you are interested in and I shall make more recommendations.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 06:36 AM
I would recommend Noam Chomsky's books. He has quite a few, however I recommend "Secrets, Lies, and Democracy" and "Killing Hope".. Good reads and very informative.
The book Killing Hope was written by William Blum. ;)

[revolutionindia]

I m reading a book its called MILa 18 written by leon uris it is about how the jews held out against nazis in a ghetto.
I think its a true story.
Amazing book
read it if you get it

[Commie Girl]

:) Noam Chomsky has a NEW Book out called "Hegemony or Survival:America's Quest for Global Dominance"

am waiting for it to come in....

[Individual]

Originally posted by LuZhiming+Jan 29 2004, 07:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LuZhiming @ Jan 29 2004, 07:32 AM)
[email protected] 29 2004, 06:36 AM
I would recommend Noam Chomsky&#39;s books. He has quite a few, however I recommend "Secrets, Lies, and Democracy" and "Killing Hope".. Good reads and very informative.
The book Killing Hope was written by William Blum. ;) [/b]
Well before you think you have proved me an idiot, think about the fact that there are millions of books out there. And maybe, just maybe, there is another book entitled "Killing Hope". If you want the full title, "Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions". What is it with people trying to prove people wrong? Try researching what you say, even if it is about a book title.

[Hoppe]

Read Hayek&#39;s The Road to Serfdom. Then decide if you want to read the other stuff.

[Hampton]

Originally posted by AlwaysQuestion+Jan 29 2004, 12:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AlwaysQuestion @ Jan 29 2004, 12:49 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 07:32 AM

[email protected] 29 2004, 06:36 AM
I would recommend Noam Chomsky&#39;s books. He has quite a few, however I recommend "Secrets, Lies, and Democracy" and "Killing Hope".. Good reads and very informative.
The book Killing Hope was written by William Blum. ;)
Well before you think you have proved me an idiot, think about the fact that there are millions of books out there. And maybe, just maybe, there is another book entitled "Killing Hope". If you want the full title, "Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions". What is it with people trying to prove people wrong? Try researching what you say, even if it is about a book title. [/b]
Well, is the book you&#39;re reading the William Blum title? If not, by all means, tell us who it&#39;s by.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 08:27 PM
I would recommend Noam Chomsky&#39;s books. He has quite a few, however I recommend "Secrets, Lies, and Democracy" and "Killing Hope".. Good reads and very informative.

Well, is the book you&#39;re reading the William Blum title? If not, by all means, tell us who it&#39;s by.
The book "Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions" was written by Noam Chomsky. As I had said:

"I would recommend Noam Chomsky&#39;s books. He has quite a few, however I recommend "Secrets, Lies, and Democracy" and "Killing Hope".. Good reads and very informative."

What is it with people, this topic is about what good books to read. Not whether the books are real. If you still do not believe me that this book is a real book. Then do a search for it. Don&#39;t get sarcastic with me over a damn book.

Again, incase you still haven&#39;t gotten it. "Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions" is by Noam Chomsky, an author.

[canikickit]

Here&#39;s an exciting site with reviews of "Killing Hope"

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstatete...illingHope.html (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/books/KillingHope.html)

Oh cool, they included Chomsky&#39;s opinion:


“Far and away the best book on the topic.”

— Noam Chomsky
M.I.T. professor of linguistics
U.S. foreign policy critic
author of The Culture of Terrorism
What Uncle Sam Really Wants

Egotistical bastard isn&#39;t he?

Here&#39;s another exciting page:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Kil...gHope_page.html (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html)

You should put your copy of Killing Hope up on e-bay. You&#39;d make a killing&#33;

[Hampton]

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/books/bookcovers/KillingHope.jpg

:o

[Individual]

Ok, so I am an idiot. Should really pay more attention to myself while at work. Turn me around and call me a dipshit. Read to many books. My apologies

[bubbrubb]

thanks . my pops actually has many of naom&#39;s books i might read em or sum of the suggestions :D

[canikickit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 10:42 PM
Ok, so I am an idiot. Should really pay more attention to myself while at work. Turn me around and call me a dipshit. Read to many books. My apologies
You don&#39;t need to apologise for an honest mistake.

In an amusing coincidence, you also don&#39;t have to act like everyone is out to get you.

[The Feral Underclass]

bubbrubb

Noam Chomsky can be emailed at [email protected] So if you have any questions they you go. He&#39;s a nice guy. He&#39;s vague sometimes, but I think he does it on perpuse. I have spoken to him several times and have learnt a lot from him.

Your not doing anything wrong by emailing him, hundreds of people do it. His email is on his MIT website.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

To Kill A Nation By Michael Parenti (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1859843662/qid=1075453407/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5426889-7694250?v=glance&s=books)

This is an informative book on Yugoslavia that not only the creator of this topic should read, but every serious leftist here. This may not be philosophical, but it is a very important book.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I would strongly advise reading opposition theory as well, it will increase the understanding of conflict theories (for example) if you know well the consesus theories. It is far easier to understand the concepts of communism, and judge them for their merits, if you have a real graspe of capitalist theory.

I therefore suggest that you balance reading of one area with that of others. It is fun, and f you know the theory of someone else better than them, debates become a lot more onesided. Especially here where it is unlikely that you will meet a capitalist with more than a basic understanding of capitalism, from basic summaries they have read on politics for begginers style sites.

[kylieII]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 12:19 PM
I would strongly advise reading opposition theory as well, it will increase the understanding of conflict theories (for example) if you know well the consesus theories. It is far easier to understand the concepts of communism, and judge them for their merits, if you have a real graspe of capitalist theory.

I therefore suggest that you balance reading of one area with that of others. It is fun, and f you know the theory of someone else better than them, debates become a lot more onesided. Especially here where it is unlikely that you will meet a capitalist with more than a basic understanding of capitalism, from basic summaries they have read on politics for begginers style sites.
I agree, I would reccomend reading first a book that looks at all of the main social theories, before going into more depth like in some of the other books that have been recommended here.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 12:19 PM
I therefore suggest that you balance reading of one area with that of others. It is fun, and f you know the theory of someone else better than them, debates become a lot more onesided. Especially here where it is unlikely that you will meet a communist with more than a basic understanding of capitalism, from basic summaries they have read on politics for begginers style sites.
Without a doubt most people pretend to know a lot about capitalism, but in reality it is nothing but repeating each other&#39;s slogans.

And please, don&#39;t read Rand. :)

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 02:12 PM

Without a doubt most people pretend to know a lot about capitalism, but in reality it is nothing but repeating each other&#39;s slogans.

And please, don&#39;t read Rand. :)
I will agree with you and say that it is true for many communists to, although I must say that quite a lot here have read into the manifesto Das Kapital etc..although not all. Hoppe I haven&#39;t really talked to any "cappies" for a while, do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

[cubist]

blum and chomsky are safe bets

[Commie Girl]

:) One of the BEST books that helps us understand thoroughly HOW we got into this mess in after the first world war should read Paris 1919 by Margaret McMillan....one of the premier books&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 03:05 PM
I will agree with you and say that it is true for many communists to, although I must say that quite a lot here have read into the manifesto Das Kapital etc..although not all. Hoppe I haven&#39;t really talked to any "cappies" for a while, do you mind if I ask you a few questions?
PM me if you like.

[Y2A]

Anything by Noam Chomsky(So far I&#39;ve only read one of his books "Propaganda and the public mind" but I&#39;ve read many other interviews and articles about Chomsky) however I am critical about his support for the Khmer Rouge.

If you want a right-wing capitalist outlook, I would say you should read anything by Milton Friedman.

And of course the Orwell books like "1984", "Animal farm", etc....

I also think you would find the complete Bolivian diaries of Che Guerrva interesting(I am currently reading it) and also "Guerrilla Warfare" by him is quite interesting.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 07:17 AM
however I am critical about his support for the Khmer Rouge.
I have yet to see an actual truth to that claim. It seems to be pure slander against Noam Chomsky and Edward Herman for them claiming that the U.S. did exagerate on Cambodian atrocities by the Khmer Rouge.

[DEPAVER]

I would start with Howard Zinn, A People&#39;s History of the United States. If you live in the U.S., you must first understand the history of how we got to the point we&#39;re at before you can really understand why we&#39;re in the mess we find ourselves.

Chomsky is a tough read unless you are late in high school or college, but otherwise, he&#39;s at the top of my list.

Edward Abbey was a good writer for those interested in social issues, as well as the environment.

[STI]

Chomsky is a tough read unless you are late in high school or college, but otherwise, he&#39;s at the top of my list

What&#39;s wrong with reading Chomsky in high school or college?

[John Galt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 02:12 PM
And please, don&#39;t read Rand. :)
So far Atlas Shrugged has been the best book we read all year in english.

[Professor Moneybags]

That&#39;s not exactly ligt reading, is it John ? I don&#39;t reccommend Atlas as your first Rand book- there&#39;s too mcuh to take in. Try Anthem instead.

[LSD]

So far Atlas Shrugged has been the best book we read all year in english.

You&#39;re kidding right??

Talk about overwritten.
It&#39;s 1200 pages of ranting melodrama. Oh no, the whole world is socialist, oh no, no one respects hard work...... It&#39;s just more propagation of the myth of capitalist meritocracy, and it&#39;s badly written.

And that weird shit at the end, that every social relationship must be based in money???
That is an extremely creepy book.

[kylieII]

Again I would just like to say I think its important if you want to fully understand the different viewpoints, that you try a more general unbiased book, that is neither fully marxist nor capitalist. After having a basic understanding of different ideas etc, then would be a good time to go into more detail on whatever you find yourself most interested in.

[Professor Moneybags]

It&#39;s 1200 pages of ranting melodrama. Oh no, the whole world is socialist, oh no, no one respects hard work...... It&#39;s just more propagation of the myth of capitalist meritocracy, and it&#39;s badly written.

Ooooooooooh noooooooooooo, of course it&#39;s just a myth. The men of ability will neeeeeeeeeeever leave and go to greener pastures elsewhere, will they ?

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...=ST&f=8&t=21904 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=21904)

(*chuckle*)

Just like no one ever left the Eastern Block (the Berlin wall was just built for a laugh, right ?), or left Socialist Britain in the 60&#39;s and 70&#39;s (a period infamously known as the "brain drain").

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 08:05 PM
Chomsky is a tough read unless you are late in high school or college, but otherwise, he&#39;s at the top of my list.
:blink: I started reading Chomsky in 9th grade.(Actually, it was the summer after 8th grade, but you get the picture.) I recommend any Junior High student to read up on him.

[STI]

Originally posted by LuZhiming+Feb 3 2004, 09:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LuZhiming @ Feb 3 2004, 09:16 PM)
[email protected] 2 2004, 08:05 PM
Chomsky is a tough read unless you are late in high school or college, but otherwise, he&#39;s at the top of my list.
:blink: I started reading Chomsky in 9th grade.(Actually, it was the summer after 8th grade, but you get the picture.) I recommend any Junior High student to read up on him. [/b]
Same here (halfway through grade 9, more specifically). That&#39;s why his comment was so surprising. "What Uncle Sam Really Wants" is probably one of the best books I&#39;ve ever read. You can get it free from the www.ratm.com reading list.

[LSD]

It&#39;s 1200 pages of ranting melodrama. Oh no, the whole world is socialist, oh no, no one respects hard work...... It&#39;s just more propagation of the myth of capitalist meritocracy, and it&#39;s badly written.

Ooooooooooh noooooooooooo, of course it&#39;s just a myth. The men of ability will neeeeeeeeeeever leave and go to greener pastures elsewhere, will they ?

Read what you&#39;re responding to before you post.
I am critizising Rand&#39;s "propagation of the myth of capitalist meritocracy", the myth that in capitalism "hard work pays off"


Just like no one ever left the Eastern Block (the Berlin wall was just built for a laugh, right ?), or left Socialist Britain in the 60&#39;s and 70&#39;s (a period infamously known as the "brain drain").

Well people try to leave oppressive regimes all the time, hardly a surprise.

As to the "infamous" "brain drain", I notice that no society ever collapsed because of this reported "brain drain" which the media seems to report in every even moderately socialist country.
Yah some will leave out of selfishness, but there is more that motivates people than material gain.

History has certainly shown that.

[Professor Moneybags]

History has shown that the problem was so bad in the Eastern Block that they had to build a wall to keep everyone in. They didn&#39;t build it for fun, you know.

[LSD]

Yah, because it was a totalitarian state, and a large number people tend not to want to stay in one if at all possible to leave. Hardly surprising.

But that in no way changes the fact that the ideology espoused by "Atlas Shrugged" is horribly naive and simplistic, and if followed through would lead to a society just as totalitarian as the one that has to "build a wall to keep everyone in".

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 4 2004, 07:35 AM
History has shown that the problem was so bad in the Eastern Block that they had to build a wall to keep everyone in. They didn&#39;t build it for fun, you know.
Whatever you think of the Berlin Wall, you shouldn&#39;t rewrite history to suit your views. It was built because of the various sabotage and other methods the U.S. was committing against East Germany.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 08:05 PM
Whatever you think of the Berlin Wall, you shouldn&#39;t rewrite history to suit your views. It was built because of the various sabotage and other methods the U.S. was committing against East Germany.
Yeah, Professor Moneybags&#33; If the USA hadn&#39;t meddled in their affairs it would have been a paradise led by the o so humble and friendly Erick Honecker.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 08:44 PM
Yeah, Professor Moneybags&#33; If the USA hadn&#39;t meddled in their affairs it would have been a paradise led by the o so humble and friendly Erick Honecker.
Please don&#39;t put words in my mouth. I am very anti-Soviet. But I am interested in the facts. I am not justifying the Soviet actions, or saying East Germany would have been wonderful if the U.S. didn&#39;t intervene. The Soviet Union was a monstrous regime. Again, I just want the truth to be told.

[pastradamus]

East Germany and many of the countries invaded by USSR during the war were Raped.No other term could put that better.Wheat was sold back to People in USSR at nominal price,thats why movements sprung up in czechslovakia,hungary,Poland etc... Romania & Hungary(to a lesser extent) were treated especially bad as they had aided the Nazi led attack of the USSR.Stalin was a ruthless dog when it came to punishing these countries.

But I believe the USSR was a great nation carved by men & people of great will & strength.I mean who the hell were Russia before the 1917 red october?

Men like Lenin,Khruschev,Trotsky & even though I dont like the man Stalin,these men made the nation great.Along with millions of Soviets.They Kept Amerikkka in their place.Now the country has a disasterous health system,its got thousands of heroin addicts & AIDS is ramptant....all of which were unheard of under the soviets.