How do leftists generally view Affirmative Action?

[ola.]

Given the recent events, the question occurred to me. I'm familiar with the more liberal explanation for Affirmative Action, but I was hoping to know how leftists on this forum would generally explain Affirmative Action. Thank you.

[Always Curious J]

Personally I think it is better to have it than to not have it. Is there a specific reason you want to know so I can better answer?

[ola.]

Personally I think it is better to have it than to not have it. Is there a specific reason you want to know so I can better answer?

I just wanted an informed leftist perspective on the issue, thats all.

[Red Economist]

I think it will be a question of how far affirmative action is simply state charity vs. the perpetuation of structural racial inequalities of global capitalism. it's not a subject I know at all, so this is just a guess.

[Always Curious J]

I just wanted an informed leftist perspective on the issue, thats all.

Fair enough. I didn't know if there was a specific type answer you were looking for. Personally I think discrimination still exists. That is the simplest and most obvious reason for Affirmative Action to continue. Also, since African Americans generally have the cards stacked against them to start (worse schools, worse homes, less opportunities, facing discrimination etc.) if they are successful, it is impressive. In other words, given the conditions they start with, them scoring high test scores, even if they are slightly lower than someone who grow up in a gated community, who went to private school, and had 3 tutors, is quite impressive and worthy of recognition. Lastly, due to various historical reasons, the conditions African American youth grow up in are quite horrid. Poor neighborhoods, stressful households, poor schooling, poor parenting, lack of money, few outside opportunities and so on are all part of the lives of many, it not most, young African Americans. Due to this, as I said, test scores are expected to be lower. However, not accepting them based on that will help no one. It will continue the cycle of poverty that necessitates Affirmative Action in the first place. If they aren't accepted into college, they will probably be poor and their kids will suffer the same fate they did. However, if they are accepted, despite their lower scores, this cycle could be ended.

[Slavic]

As with most social programs within a capitalist system they help ease the burden that capitalism naturally produces. They aren't revolutionary in their own right, but they do act as a bandage against the problems one finds within life.

[Buttscratcher]

I personally think it's stupid and divisive.

[Always Curious J]

I personally think it's stupid and divisive.

Why do you feel that way?

[∞]

History doesn't just wash away.

Black people have been enslaved for 100's (I mean holy shit) of years. Then oppressed for 100's more. Even now racism dwells in USA.


Let it exist the game has been rigged beyond belief for years at least give the black population of this country some hope after years of systematic genocide/oppression/slavery.

[tachosomoza]

I don't see why any committed, educated leftist would join reactionary forces in opposing affirmative action policies.

[BIXX]

I don't see why people oppose them, but we also shouldn't suffer from the delusion that they are anywhere near good enough (I doubt any of us do think that but it's always good to point that out)

[Buttscratcher]

Why do you feel that way?
I don't think race and gender alone should be taken into account in the eyes of the law, it's outright discriminatory.
I know it's a sort of basic view to have about affirmative action, but I haven't given that much thought on it, to be honest.

[Slavic]

I don't think race and gender alone should be taken into account in the eyes of the law, it's outright discriminatory.
I know it's a sort of basic view to have about affirmative action, but I haven't given that much thought on it, to be honest.

The reality is though that race and gender are still a factor in job hiring. Affirmative action at least is a small measure to push back against institutional racism/sexism.

[RedMaterialist]

Given the recent events, the question occurred to me. I'm familiar with the more liberal explanation for Affirmative Action, but I was hoping to know how leftists on this forum would generally explain Affirmative Action. Thank you.


Marx supported the U.S. Civil War, which action was extremely affirmative in freeing the slaves.

[Buttscratcher]

The reality is though that race and gender are still a factor in job hiring. Affirmative action at least is a small measure to push back against institutional racism/sexism.
But affirmative action seems to give out the message that minorities and women have a disadvantage therefore need special help, which could perpetuate the current racism and sexism when it comes to job hiring.

[∞]

But affirmative action seems to give out the message that minorities and women have a disadvantage.

Or maybe because they actually do.

[Bala Perdida]

Has anyone seen that Chappelle Show episode where he talks about affirmative action. He says something along the lines of "I'd rather be an affirmative action hire, than broke out on the streets". I guess that's my take on it. I wish it didn't have to exist but in this society it finds itself necessary.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

But affirmative action seems to give out the message that minorities and women have a disadvantage therefore need special help, which could perpetuate the current racism and sexism when it comes to job hiring.I don't see how one statement follows from the other. Black people and women have been held down for centuries in this country systematically so some of them might need help understandably(not only them either but it disproportionately hits some communities more than others) getting up from the bottom. Understanding this it's hard to come to racist or sexist opinions. Most of these people already have these views and just use AA to get white people mad about how privileged black people are according to them. We can't stop progress based on what racists are going to do, they don't want people they hate to be educated or have well paying respectable jobs. Racists are just going to be racist. Sexists are going to be sexist. We can't stop being their allies to get the racist faction of society on our side.

This is just a reform, in a socialist society we go further. Like everybody gets free education, even college. What are people going to say then?

[cyberpunkspike]

:mad: Another place where liberals have hurt the left profoundly, and hopefully I can clear some points of contradiction.


The problems with Affirmative Action are on many levels at once, so I'll start from the top and goto the bottom.

1. Race itself is a societal structure, and it's pervasive existence has only benefited the capitalist system. Now that the capitalists are comfortable letting it go, because the system they left behind was so thoroughly unequal, it's the Liberals railing against what they call 'color blindness' NO NO NO, we want color blindness, we don't want what the capitalists have instead in it's place which is socio-economic blindness. They once again defined the argument, and we must resist their framework.

2. Affirmative Action was always a tool of the right wing, created by richard nixon, and to his genius it has worked to prevent a broader class based consciousness. It actually worked better than they likely ever believed, as it alone is what killed the MLK coalition. What better way to divide working class whites, than by throwing a few dark skinned faces above them societally? It was always a cool-down response, created hastily post watts riots, to in many ways strengthen the underlying system. You may have heard the best way to police people, is to have them police themselves? The best way to strengthen the underlying system is to integrate blacks as capitalists.