why do so many communists hate trotzky

[gayatheistcommunist]

hi
i have just became a communist. i joined a trotzkiest party. the slp a section of the cwi. i reading trozky right now. can you explain to me why so many hate trotzkiism. i think there is more behind it than stalinists hating him beacause he "betrayed" the sovjet union.
so please tell me about it

[mindsword]

Because you cant please everyone :P

and yeah theres a problem with stalinists....... they seem to think that anything that goes against 1942 soviet legislation is anti-communism. while NORMAL PEOPLE seem to think the opposite.

[Red Economist]

I used to support Trotsky based on the illusion he was a more 'liberal' communist (not true, or if so- only very marginally). I still think he's worth listening to, but a lot of what he said about Stalinism in the 30's had already been said about Leninism earlier by other authors (so I'm told). here's a few reasons.

1. Trotsky was in charge of suppressing the Kronstadt rebellion which pisses of the anarchists and left-communists (and probably more left-wing Leninists). This is especially true of an account written much later which characterizes the sailors as petit-bourgeois or proto-bureaucratic. Much of his criticisms against Stalin were against repression on inner-party democracy, not against the excesses of the dictatorship of the proletariat. To some this would appear to be self-serving.

2. Trotskyists are extremely prone to factionalism, even by communist standards, because they disagree over why the Soviet Union went 'wrong'. The Stalin vs. Trotsky debates happen ALOT and for those who've done them so many times, it is a chore with predictable bitterness on both sides when the arguments are over.

3. As the advocate of Super-industrialisation, (voluntary) collectivization and the militarization of labour, in some ways criticizing Stalin is a bit rich and hypocritical as Stalin simply copied his ideas when he abandoned NEP and went leftward.

4. Trotsky was a Menshevik who objected to world war one (a 'Menshevik Internationalist') like the bolsheviks and eventually became a Bolshevik in 1917, and the fact he changed over so late was held against him by many Bolsheviks, and Stalinists/Marxist-Leninists.

5. The debate over Permanent Revolution and Socialism in One Country was initially over the order in which world revolution or development of socialism in Russia took place. however, it taps into a much deeper set of issues regarding nationalism and internationalism in Marxist theory over the trajectory of socialism and whether it is better to be 'realistic' and remain in the nation-state or be more 'idealistic' in advocating world revolution.

However, Trotsky should score a few points for seeing the dangers and mass appeal of National Socialism early, particularly because the official line from the Comintern was to attack Social Democrats instead as 'Social Fascists'.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Stalinists and Anarchists aren't the only Leftists critical of Trotsky. A lot of Left-Communists are critical of Trotskyism too, for issues like the fact many Trotskyists are willing to support Social Democrats. Additionally, there's the fact that the Bolsheviks supported national determination when such a policy undermined working class internationalism (Rosa Luxemborg raised that criticism for instance)



However, Trotsky should score a few points for seeing the dangers and mass appeal of National Socialism early, particularly because the official line from the Comintern was to attack Social Democrats instead as 'Social Fascists'.

The opposition to Social Democrats, at least in Germany, can be partly explained by the fact that it was the SDP which oppressed the worker's uprisings in 1918. Although the idea that Social Democrats were "social fascists" is admittedly a silly critique.

[Geiseric]

"They" hated Trotsky. He was organizing unions at the age when most of us would of been in high school. It was a different world they lived in, and extraordinary situations create exceptional people. You can't simply look at it like we look at bourgeois history where the Texas born, pseudo academic Americans have the final say. They go out of their way to spread misinformation about the past leaders of the working class such as Eugene Debs and Trotsky. He wasn't allowed entry into the US after his exile, so anything these philistines have to say regarding his "liberalism" is bunk garbage, they are mentally masturbating, using the "credible" Stalinist and bourgeois sources against a man they owe a significant amount to for his role in the international Labor movement, which has yet to be rebuilt.

[gayatheistcommunist]

thank you for all the replies intresting to hear

[The Idler]

"They" hated Trotsky. He was organizing unions at the age when most of us would of been in high school. It was a different world they lived in, and extraordinary situations create exceptional people. You can't simply look at it like we look at bourgeois history where the Texas born, pseudo academic Americans have the final say. They go out of their way to spread misinformation about the past leaders of the working class such as Eugene Debs and Trotsky. He wasn't allowed entry into the US after his exile, so anything these philistines have to say regarding his "liberalism" is bunk garbage, they are mentally masturbating, using the "credible" Stalinist and bourgeois sources against a man they owe a significant amount to for his role in the international Labor movement, which has yet to be rebuilt.
Would you reject ANY substantial criticism of the politics of Trotsky?

[khad]

3. As the advocate of Super-industrialisation, (voluntary) collectivization and the militarization of labour, in some ways criticizing Stalin is a bit rich and hypocritical as Stalin simply copied his ideas when he abandoned NEP and went leftward.
This point cannot be emphasized enough. For a lot of people Trotsky is something like a leftwing Santa Claus because of the near-hagiographic portrayal that he gets in books like Animal Farm that they encounter in their primary education.

Read up about what Trotsky did to discipline the army, and you'll see what he was all about.