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Captain Red
26th April 2014, 09:00
Why exactly did the Paris Commune fail and could it have succeeded? What was Marx opinion on the commune did he think of it as socialist?

Sinister Intents
26th April 2014, 16:04
Here is this: The Lessons of the Paris Commune (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/coldoffthepresses/tracutenberg/pariscommune.html) it's not Marx's thoughts on the Paris Commune. I'd link to Marx's opinion of it, but I believe that was taken down with the other stuff and you can read about that in this thread: MIA takes down Marx/Engels Collected Works (http://www.revleft.com/vb/mia-takes-down-t188247/index.html) If I can find a .pdf of the specific document I'll post it!
As for Kropotkin's views on the Paris Commune: The Paris Commune (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/1880/paris-commune.htm)

To answer the questions you asked I'll quote a member called Rakunin:

It did not fall over internal differences. It fell because of a bloody, counterrevolutionary war waged against the Commune. Indeed, there was some conflict between different socialist views, and it may have kept the Commune from driving the landlords out of Versailles; but the democratic reforms which made it an example of a proletarian class dictatorship need to be admired. An appointed organ of bourgeois class dictatorship became an organ of the democratic rule of the working class (through its petty bourgeois representatives). It were these reforms that made it possible for different socialist views to compete instead of being suppressed.

motion denied
26th April 2014, 16:44
Perhaps you will point to the Paris Commune; but apart from the fact that this was merely the rising of a town under exceptional conditions, the majority of the Commune was in no sense socialist, nor could it be

However, it did not keep Marx from supporting the Commune and cursing the reactionary trash. To him the Commune meant:


The direct antithesis to the empire was the Commune. The cry of “social republic,” with which the February Revolution was ushered in by the Paris proletariat, did but express a vague aspiration after a republic that was not only to supercede the monarchical form of class rule, but class rule itself. The Commune was the positive form of that republic.

[...]

It aimed at the expropriation of the expropriators. It wanted to make individual property a truth by transforming the means of production, land, and capital, now chiefly the means of enslaving and exploiting labor, into mere instruments of free and associated labor.

The Commune was the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. It could not have succeeded (iirc think Marx points that somewhere); not isolated.

Zanthorus
27th April 2014, 19:34
The context of the Paris commune was the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, in which France was defeated, leading to the downfall of the second French Empire and the rise of the German Empire. Nationalist feelings probably played a strong part in it's instigation, the Parisians harboured resentment against the government for failing to continue the fight against Prussia, and for being complicit in the national disgrace.

It wasn't the only commune proclaimed during this period of time. Efforts were made to duplicate the success of the communards in other French cities. Perhaps the most notable was the commune declared in Lyons, which Bakunin was involved with. In any event none of these managed to attain the staying power of the Paris commune, which left Paris isolated and unable to hold out.

The communards themselves were a mishmash of groups. Left learning Republicans, Blanquists ad the French section of the IWMA which had more than it's share of Proudhonists were all involved. They took certain measures but, for example, the left the French National bank alone. The commune never really existed on a wide enough scale to begin any kind of socialist reorganisation of society. It was a cause célèbre for the international left because it generated a large amount of anxiety in European bourgeois society about the possibility of similar uprisings.

As noted above, Marx attached importance to the Commune as the first practical demonstration of the dictatorship of the proletariat. That is also the significance afforded to it by every later Marxist.

bricolage
28th April 2014, 00:26
Zanthorus is right to highlight the isolation of the Commune. The Communards made numerous attempts to expand themselves, including several 'sorties' and notably one by the Freemasons. However they all failed. Importantly on March 18th when the Commune began soldiers in the French army deserted and joined the people of Paris, the point is that when Bloody Week happened the army remained cohesive and no mutinies took place. The failure to spread into the base of the army was as pertinent as the failure to spread to other cities.


The commune never really existed on a wide enough scale to begin any kind of socialist reorganisation of society.
You've also got to question whether this reorganisation would even have taken place had the Commune existed on a wider scale and for a longer amount of time.

Brandon's Impotent Rage
28th April 2014, 01:07
Others have already said pretty much everything that could be said about the Commune, so I'll just add my own two cents.

As Zanthorus pointed out, the significance to the Paris Commune to Marx, Engels and co. was there belief that the Commune, imperfect as it may have been, was the first clear example of what a Dictatorship of the Proletariat was supposed to look like. The Commune was both radical and radically democratic in nature. The program it put forth (according to Wikipedia) included such things as:



the separation of church and state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state);
the remission of rents owed for the entire period of the siege (during which, payment had been suspended);
the abolition of night work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_working) in the hundreds of Paris bakeries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakery);
the granting of pensions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension) to the unmarried companions and children of National Guards killed on active service;
the free return, by the city pawnshops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawnshop), of all workmen's tools and household items valued up to 20 francs, pledged during the siege; the Commune was concerned that skilled workers had been forced to pawn their tools during the war;
the postponement of commercial debt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt) obligations, and the abolition of interest on the debts;
the right of employees to take over and run an enterprise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_self-management) if it were deserted by its owner; the Commune, nonetheless, recognized the previous owner's right to compensation; (I'm a little torn on that latter part)
the prohibition of fines imposed by employers on their workmen.[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_commune#cite_note-35)

It also had plans to set up free schools for women and children. Cooperative workshops were organized. A cooperative restaurant called La Marmite served free food for ingredients. Several feminist initiatives were put forward, and women were actively involved in the armed defense and fighting for the Commune.

Make no mistake, it was an incredible time in history.

But it's democratic nature may, ironically, be one of the reasons it failed. Marx complained that the Commune was too timid in its approach to reactionaries and that it left the banks alone, rather than seize their assets. He thought they would have been better off if they had seized the assets of the banks, dealt more harshly with reactionaries, instituted conscription, and centralized decision making in the hands of revolutionary direction.

Nevertheless, it must be emphasized that universal suffrage and direct democracy were two of the bedrocks of the Commune's success (as short-lived as it may have been).

But also remember this: The Dictatorship of the Proletariat is not just democratic, it is also violent. It is the justification that the oppressed peoples of the world will use....must use....in its suppression and eventual elimination of all those who would dare to restablish the oppression of the terrible old times. That's the other lesson of the Commune: You can't stop half way.