Can someone explain the theory of rape-culture for me?

[Comrade Jacob]

I think I get the basics of since we live in a patriarchal society sexuality is affected by it and we can never really 100% consent. Is this it?
Thanks for the answers.

[PhoenixAsh]

No that is not it.

Rape culture is when sexual violence is so engrained in society that it normalizes and excuses sexual violence.

[Kill all the fetuses!]

As far as I am concerned, it's not that much that you can't really 100% consent, but more that rape is normalized, where you have victim blaming, where you have boys/men engaging in rape or something like rape without thinking they are doing anything wrong etc.

[jake williams]

I think I get the basics of since we live in a patriarchal society sexuality is affected by it and we can never really 100% consent. Is this it?
Thanks for the answers.
Actually that is kind of a part of it. When people talk about "non-consensual sex being normalized", they're not mostly talking about the after-the-fact justifications of a few freak occurrences (although that also happens).

They're mainly talking about the fact about how what we consider "normal sex" is presumed not to be "rape", but actually it involves a casual lack of concern about consent, especially of women.

In other words, it's less about saying that "rape is fine" than about saying "normal sex doesn't count as rape (even though it doesn't actually involve consent".

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

It's not a theory but a fucked up reality. It is why so many rapes go unreported. It is why those that are reported aren't taken seriously. It is every manifestation of victim-blaming. It is reinforced by slut-shaming. It is how grrrls are taught how to prevent and avoid rape, yet boys aren't taught not to rape (and on the rare occasions where they are, they are taught an overly narrow definition of what rape is) It is a culture that normalizes rape.

[Red Economist]

I confess I had to look it up, but have seen it mentioned on revleft a few times.


In feminism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism), rape culture is a concept that links rape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape) and sexual violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence) to the culture of a society,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-Williams-1) and in which prevalent attitudes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_%28psychology%29) and practices normalize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_%28sociology%29), excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-Flintoft-2)
Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming), sexual objectification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification), and trivializing rape. Rape culture has been used to model behavior within social groups, including prison rape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape) and conflict areas where war rape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_rape) is used as psychological warfare. Entire countries have also been alleged to be rape cultures.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-leaderu-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-rozee-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-Steffes-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-Maitse1998-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-Prof_Upendra_Baxi_India_.3D_Rape_Culture-7)
Although the concept of rape culture is used in feminist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist) academia,[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-8) there is disagreement over what defines a rape culture and to what degree a given society meets the criteria to be considered a rape culture.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#cite_note-leaderu-3)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

[heisenberg]

To me, the solution requires action from both sides. Do we need to stop with the victim-blaming and work more on raising young men who truly respect women and their rights? Absolutely. Do we need the media to stop sexualizing women and brainwashing men into thinking they are nothing but sex objects? Absolutely. Do we need law enforcement to take rape more seriously? Absolutely. But at the risk of inciting a riot on this thread, let's not forget that women have responsibilities too. Reality often sucks and we often hate it, but it's still reality, and the reality of 2014 is that rape is still a huge problem throughout the world. With that in mind, women need to make responsible choices to avoid rape. For instance, if you're a 19-year old sorority girl at a frat party and you willingly accept drink after drink, you absolutely bear some responsibility if you get raped. It's not exactly a secret that the sole purpose of frat parties is to get girls drunk in order to have sex with them. If you are a female and you choose to attend these events and you choose to drink excessively, you bear some responsibility for what happens to you. And don't tell me that I'm anti-woman and/or a horrible human being because a woman should have the right to go anywhere she wants and drink however much she wants without worrying about getting raped. I understand that, I agree with that, and in a perfect world of course that is how things should be. But again, we're living in the real world, and thus must act accordingly. This is no different than if I walked into the worst part of Detroit wearing a Rolex and then got mugged and blamed it solely on our "violence culture" in society. Whether I liked it or not, I would be at fault too, given that I knew perfectly well that wearing an expensive timepiece in a bad part of town is asking for trouble. In a perfect world, would it be great to be able to walk around anywhere with anything I wanted and not be afraid of getting mugged? Absolutely. However, again, we must take actions that are grounded in reality, not fantasy.

To claim that teaching women to take responsible actions to avoid rape is somehow perpetuating "rape culture" is VERY dangerous to women, because it implies that they have no responsibility for their actions or their body. Whether or not our society condones or even promotes rape is not the only issue at play here. The fact of the matter is that rape IS a problem in our society, and women still are responsible for protecting themselves. To willingly put yourself in a dangerous situation and then claim that what happened to you is solely the fault of a misogynistic and patriarchal society is absurd. If you knowingly walk into a place where the chance of getting raped is high, then you absolutely do bear some responsibility for what happens to you. That is not perpetuating rape culture; that's simply common sense.

[Remus Bleys]

The troll above is basically a good expression in human terms on just how subtle rape culture is. Not sure why he is on a so called revolutionary website instead of getting banned for accepting the existing state of things.

[Redistribute the Rep]

stuff

Except most rapes are date/spousal rapes that often occur in the victims own house? Part of rape culture is perpetuating the narrow definition of rape only happening to girls at parties or in dark alleys.

[#FF0000]

nonsense

So should rapists who use alcohol to ply victims be acquitted in courts? What does it mean for women to "take responsibility" in this context?

I mean, you do realize what you're suggesting is the status quo, right? You do realize that people have been acquitted on this basis, and that many, many more women have been too afraid to come forward at all because of fear and/or their guilt for what somebody else did to them, yeah?

And you do realize that very few people are assaulted where these attacks are thought of having a "high chance" of occurring, I hope . Most women are attacked in their homes,
by men they know. Considering this, how do you feel about teaching women just to not trust men?

[Bostana]

\ For instance, if you're a 19-year old sorority girl at a frat party and you willingly accept drink after drink, you absolutely bear some responsibility if you get raped.

No.
Not in any case is it a victims fault for rape. If a frat boy gets a girl or guy drunk in order to get them into bed with them then that is rape and there is no excuse and not ever in any case is rape a victims fault.

[motion denied]

hey heisenberg some people here have over 10 years of internet.

are you even trying to troll anyone

[Rosa Partizan]

why would anyone answer properly to this pathetic troll?

Rape culture is to me not only about sex. It is kind of broader. I.e. we all know those movies where a guy gets turned down several times but continues pursuing the girl until she finally realizes, goddamn he's awesome. These guys are always portrayed clumsy, nerdy, a bit crazy (in a positive way) and adorable, while girls who do the same in movies are kind of creepy and borderline and stuff. This whole "getting turned down actually means 'convince me'" stuff is also part of rape culture.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Bullshit.

Alright, so, for starters, the Rolex analogy is fuckinggodawfulterrible for a whole bunch of reasons, but fails most clearly and miserably because "the worst part of Detroit" is racialized, is economically marginalized, etc. It's not full of "bad" people - it's full of oppressed people. And you know what heterosexual men, in the context of patriarchal relations aren't? Oppressed.

A better metaphor (though one that still fails miserably insofar as these things don't really bare comparison to anything) would be the violence that faces racialized people when they enter white neighbourhoods. What you're saying is something like, "Black boys shouldn't go to buy skittles because, hey, this is the real world."

Well, straight-up, that's some stupid racist shit. Duh.

Similarly, what you're saying is some goddamn misogynist shit.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

To me, the solution requires action from both sides. Do we The rest is edited out because I don't even want to quote such bullshit in it's entirety.


Three cheers for random ass misogynist bigots!
But seriously dudebro, shut the fuck up! When you accept something that is royally fucked up in society and say "bur da bur da bur, that is reality and that is how it is so you (as the potential victim) need to take some of the blame because you assumed the risk." Dude, how about you have to watch how many drinks you drink and you feel intimidated out of getting out there as part of society and being terrorized out of doing basic things like going out and having a social life because of the threat of rape. While we are at it, how about you modify how you dress for your safety, you fucking rape apologist. After you're done taking all the precautions that society expects the rest of us to take, how about you then proceed to take your sexist victim blaming bullshit and shove it up your ass you misogynist piece of shit. If I ever run into you and your last memory before going unconscious is my knuck tats getting bigger and bigger, than maybe you willingly put yourself in harms way by obstructing the path of my fist motherfucker! Yeah, go fuck yourself!

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Alright, so, for starters, the Rolex analogy is fuckinggodawfulterrible for a whole bunch of reasons, but fails most clearly and miserably because "the worst part of Detroit" is racialized, is economically marginalized, etc. It's not full of "bad" people - it's full of oppressed people. And you know what heterosexual men, in the context of patriarchal relations aren't? Oppressed.

A better metaphor (though one that still fails miserably insofar as these things don't really bare comparison to anything) would be the violence that faces racialized people when they enter white neighbourhoods. What you're saying is something like, "Black boys shouldn't go to buy skittles because, hey, this is the real world."

Well, straight-up, that's some stupid racist shit. Duh.

Similarly, what you're saying is some goddamn misogynist shit.
totally agree of course but when you said that heterosexual men aren't opressed, it made me think that they actually are in an indirect or unseeming kind of way. the standard heteronormative binary culture is oppressive to both sides - the fact that the power balance favours men is true of course, but we mustn't forget that this culture is bad for men as it is for women in a social sense. that in itself is a part of the oppressive nature of patriarchy.

of course with this line of thinking, we can see all destructive elements of the social masses as oppressed - violent thiefs, as mentioned, are violent thiefs due to their socioeconomic position. rapists are that too, because of rape culture and the culture of patriarchy. of course this doesn't excuse their crimes but a recognition of their behaviour as the behaviour of oppressed people is necessary in identifying the social forces which need to be addressed.

i was reading fanon recently and it occurred to me that, just as ethic conflicts within imaginary borders drawn up by colonialists are violence resulting from the divide and rule nature of bourgeois imperialism and capitalism, so too is the violence amongst genders to some extent, albiet perhaps largely indirectly (same goes for the ethnic conflicts too though in many cases - however convenient they may be for the bourgeoisie to retain its position, most of these conflictts weren't consciously orchestrated.).

dunno how this will be viewed here but understand that i'm coming from a perspective that renders human agency more and more incidental the more i think about how people interact. note that my personal emotive kneejerk reaction is that rapists should be castrated, but that is a kneejerk emotive reaction. the key point behind what i'm saying is that we need to understand that the violence at the hands of males is a part of the same repressive forces that result from the partiarchal apparatus. MEN need to be saved too, sometimes even more so. saved not only from themselves but from what this disgusting culture conditions many of them to be also.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

the fact that the power balance favours men is true of course, but we mustn't forget that this culture is bad for men as it is for women in a social sense. that in itself is a part of the oppressive nature of patriarchy.

as bad for men as it is for womyn? really? Oh, it's the same, right? Men have it just as bad, right? You see, I was almost agreeing with you as I was reading until I read this little gem.

The reality is that yes, patriarchy and rape culture can be bad for men too (even though men overall benefit from the imbalance of power, as you said) but it is in no way *as* bad for men as it is for womyn, I mean that shit is just silly. But overall, if men (primarily hetero-cis men) didn't have privilege to gain from such things this would not be an issue and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But they do and it is.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

as bad for men as it is for womyn? really? Oh, it's the same, right? Men have it just as bad, right? You see, I was almost agreeing with you as I was reading until I read this little gem.

The reality is that yes, patriarchy and rape culture can be bad for men too (even though men overall benefit from the imbalance of power, as you said) but it is in no way *as* bad for men as it is for womyn, I mean that shit is just silly. But overall, if men (primarily hetero-cis men) didn't have privilege to gain from such things this would not be an issue and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But they do and it is.
if you actually read what i said, you'd see that i put it is bad for men as it is for women, not as bad as.

could be worded badly but if you read it correctly you wouldn't have jumped to your conclusion. i'm a heteronormative male and would never ever say i have it as bad as women. i have it bad though, because a rape culture attempts to define me too. obviously i don't let it, but it tries and that was my only real point really.

all genders are harmed under patriarchy, this is undeniable. the same way that all ethnic groups are harmed under racism. there are differences in the power-balance but the fundamental point is that it is the conditions that lead to the power-balance as well as the power-balance itself that need to be destroyed for all people to be free.

in rape culture, men are slaves to the same hideous system as women are. the fact is that women are at the receiving end of the violence, but both genders here are oppressed. this is the objective assessment.

[Comrade Jacob]

why would anyone answer properly to this pathetic troll?

I'm not trolling pal, I'm simply asking an honest question. Christ. :glare:

EDIT: LOL, okay I have to read more carefully the past posts.

[Quail]

why would anyone answer properly to this pathetic troll?


I know we don't always have the energy to deal with what sometimes feels like a constant stream of bullshit, but I do think there is some value in picking apart these arguments, not necessarily because we think the troll will change their mind, but because it might make other people reading the debate thing and question their opinions.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

if you actually read what i said, you'd see that i put it is bad for men as it is for women, not as bad as.

could be worded badly but if you read it correctly you wouldn't have jumped to your conclusion. i'm a heteronormative male and would never ever say i have it as bad as women. i have it bad though, because a rape culture attempts to define me too. obviously i don't let it, but it tries and that was my only real point really.

all genders are harmed under patriarchy, this is undeniable. the same way that all ethnic groups are harmed under racism. there are differences in the power-balance but the fundamental point is that it is the conditions that lead to the power-balance as well as the power-balance itself that need to be destroyed for all people to be free.

in rape culture, men are slaves to the same hideous system as women are. the fact is that women are at the receiving end of the violence, but both genders here are oppressed. this is the objective assessment.
Well thank you for the point of clarification.

[alfasurs]

as bad for men as it is for womyn? really? Oh, it's the same, right? Men have it just as bad, right? You see, I was almost agreeing with you as I was reading until I read this little gem.

The reality is that yes, patriarchy and rape culture can be bad for men too (even though men overall benefit from the imbalance of power, as you said) but it is in no way *as* bad for men as it is for womyn, I mean that shit is just silly. But overall, if men (primarily hetero-cis men) didn't have privilege to gain from such things this would not be an issue and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But they do and it is.

Instead of jumping up and down, why don't you try and understand that patriarchy has far-reaching consequences insomuch that even men, who are supposedly to be the controllers, are in some ways controlled by the system they've created? Same as capitalists getting to suffer through competition - and all the stress that it creates - even though it is rather evident that workers suffer worse conditions, financially and otherwise.

In doing so, we see the all-pervasive nature of a certain system, be it patriarchy or capitalism. My advice to you: read some books, learn, think, don't just use every opportunity to become offended and act like a sanctimonious nitwit.

[PhoenixAsh]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


Instead of jumping up and down, why don't you try and understand that patriarchy has far-reaching consequences insomuch that even men, who are supposedly to be the controllers, are in some ways controlled by the system they've created? Same as capitalists getting to suffer through competition - and all the stress that it creates - even though it is rather evident that workers suffer worse conditions, financially and otherwise.

In doing so, we see the all-pervasive nature of a certain system, be it patriarchy or capitalism. My advice to you: read some books, learn, think, don't just use every opportunity to become offended and act like a sanctimonious nitwit.


trollololololol


http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2747474&postcount=201



She is a girl trying to make sense of certain unique experiences. You are a guy telling her - not explicitly, of course - that she has no idea what she's talking about. You know how offensive that is to women? It is like a rich guy saying that workers have no idea how bad things are, they need to be taught. Very insulting, isn't it? Apologize to her, dude.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Instead of jumping up and down, why don't you try and understand that patriarchy has far-reaching consequences insomuch that even men, who are supposedly to be the controllers, are in some ways controlled by the system they've created? Same as capitalists getting to suffer through competition - and all the stress that it creates - even though it is rather evident that workers suffer worse conditions, financially and otherwise.

In doing so, we see the all-pervasive nature of a certain system, be it patriarchy or capitalism. My advice to you: read some books, learn, think, don't just use every opportunity to become offended and act like a sanctimonious nitwit.

Your advice is not needed you condescending dick. I don't need to read some books, drown myself in theory in order to understand the oppression we (as in womyn) and particularly those of us who are womyn of color face. How about you check your privilege.

[alfasurs]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:




trollololololol


http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2747474&postcount=201

Are you joking? There is a huge difference between these two posters - poster rosa started the thread to share and learn...... Whereas this Agro poster's vocabulary is restricted to f this and f that. Agro has been abusive most of the time.... Making vulgar remarks, always taking an aggressive stance and lacking class. This isn't the spirit of learning at all, so please drop your self-righteous outrage.

[PhoenixAsh]

Are you joking? There is a huge difference between these two posters - poster rosa started the thread to share and learn...... Whereas this Agro poster's vocabulary is restricted to f this and f that. Agro has been abusive most of the time.... Making vulgar remarks, always taking an aggressive stance and lacking class. This isn't the spirit of learning at all, so please drop your self-righteous outrage.

Nope. Not kidding. You are a condecending male chauvenist troll.


First off all your criticism in that other thread was condescending and sexist towards women...and surprise, surprise...your post here was also riddled with coded sexist, condescending and male chauvenist patriarchal language.

Second off all your post in the other thread completely missed the content of the debate of that thread and the arguments made. Perhaps you should have read it....but since your main interest seems to be to antagonize rather than debate on the basis of content...well...:rolleyes:

Third off all your criticism to the positions in this thread were quoted here and the content of that criticism contained exactly the same position you purported to attack in the other thread. So...yeah...wauw...hypocracy much?? :laugh:

So for somebody who'se entire forum existence to this posts and the next one after this consists of posts aimed at antagonizing users after debates settle down....throwing oil on the fire, back seat modding, complete lack of any form of awareness, completely lacking content arguments and are laden with hypocritical outrage and white knighting....

You are the weakest link.

[Skyhilist]

TDo we need to stop with the victim-blaming and work more on raising young men who truly respect women and their rights? Absolutely.


if you're a 19-year old sorority girl at a frat party and you willingly accept drink after drink, you absolutely bear some responsibility if you get raped.

Wow contradiction much?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Are you joking? There is a huge difference between these two posters - poster rosa started the thread to share and learn...... Whereas this Agro poster's vocabulary is restricted to f this and f that. Agro has been abusive most of the time.... Making vulgar remarks, always taking an aggressive stance and lacking class. This isn't the spirit of learning at all, so please drop your self-righteous outrage.

I'm classy like Kesha :roll eyes:

Do you know what agro means? It means crude, feisty and full of attitude. My life experiences are not the same as Rosa's life experiences. Of course our attitudes aren't the same. I've had to live on the streets, do you know what kind of attitude a grrrl livin' and sleepin' on the streets has to develop in which to survive? I survived multiple rapes from multiple men plus rapes from men who payed my ex to have their way with me. Oh and that ex used to beat me and rape me as well. What, you can't understand why I would be bitter and angry? Even after I found the law won't protect me from him? It was up to me. You want to whine about my language? You might want to look at the social context that made me how I am before judging me as vulgar and classless. So quitchyo self-righteous whining about sensitivity, pendejo.