Ontario's Beer Cartel

[The Intransigent Faction]

There's a recent ad that's been raising some eyebrows here: a perplexing fear-mongering ad against loosening restrictions on alcohol sales.

_OLn5QojMH8

I know it's very different in the United States, and probably varies state-by-state there. Since most members here are, from what I can tell, Americans, I'm curious: what are the laws there and how (if at all) have they impacted underage drinking?

[jake williams]

I mean, I'm no fan of corner stores or their owners, but it's not obvious it's better to have a monopoly given to a cartel.

In any case, in Québec they sell beer in corner stores, and in Montréal you can drink in parks, and the drinking age is 18, and honestly it's completely fine. It's kind of hard looking from outside to see what people are worried about.

[Art Vandelay]

I can't imagine having the drinking age at 21, or even 19 for that matter since my province is one of the few left with the 18 drinking age. That ad is pretty dumb, but to be honest I don't remember the drinking age affecting my ability to get my hands on alcohol when I was young. Between my parents supplying it for me, or one of our older friends buying it, not being 18 was never a problem.

[Slavic]

Wouldn't a convenience store clerk checking for ID completly dismantle the "what ifs" that this ad is proposing.

[M-L-C-F]

There's a recent ad that's been raising some eyebrows here: a perplexing fear-mongering ad against loosening restrictions on alcohol sales.

_OLn5QojMH8

I know it's very different in the United States, and probably varies state-by-state there. Since most members here are, from what I can tell, Americans, I'm curious: what are the laws there and how (if at all) have they impacted underage drinking


I mean, I'm no fan of corner stores or their owners, but it's not obvious it's better to have a monopoly given to a cartel.

In any case, in Québec they sell beer in corner stores, and in Montréal you can drink in parks, and the drinking age is 18, and honestly it's completely fine. It's kind of hard looking from outside to see what people are worried about.


I can't imagine having the drinking age at 21, or even 19 for that matter since my province is one of the few left with the 18 drinking age. That ad is pretty dumb, but to be honest I don't remember the drinking age affecting my ability to get my hands on alcohol when I was young. Between my parents supplying it for me, or one of our older friends buying it, not being 18 was never a problem.


Wouldn't a convenience store clerk checking for ID completly dismantle the "what ifs" that this ad is proposing.

I seen this commercial when I was watching Hockey Night in Canada last Saturday iirc. We get CBC Windsor 9 here, so I get to watch the actual broadcast. I laughed so fucking hard at how stupid the commercial was. I was like: "WTF?". It's so juvenile, and as Slavic said, checking IDs cancels their argument out. Fuck you and your fear mongering.

You should be able to buy alcohol at any store, it's stupid to have otherwise. From both a personal choice, and even dare I say a financial end. As those taxes are just waiting to be earned. As far as I'm concerned, the drinking age should be 18 too. It's because of the fucking fundamentalists why it's 21 here in the US. It's annoying, and incredibly stupid. They're gonna drink either way, so they may as well let them buy it. Never mind they can fight and die for American imperialism.

It used to be a "state run" operation in Ohio, according to my uncle down there. Then they privatised it, and let people buy it anywhere. You couldn't buy it on Sundays, and they weren't open late. Basically, the fundamentalists and bourgeoisie, using the state for their own ends.

Here in Michigan, it's bad enough they stop selling at 2AM. Not allowing sales until 7AM, the following morning. Just recently they extended the Sunday hours, to match the rest of the week. You should be able to buy alcohol whenever you want to. I hated getting off of work at 6:30AM at my grocery job, and having to wait until 7AM to buy booze.

Also, on a side note. I'm so fucking pissed that the Rogers monopoly is taking over Hockey Night in Canada next season. I mean, I like George Stroumboulopoulos, but it just won't be the same.

[Art Vandelay]

I mean, I like George Stroumboulopoulos.

There is something wrong with you.

[M-L-C-F]

There is something wrong with you.

Idk, I just liked The Hour, and I like George Stroumboulopoulos Tonight. His US show was pretty good too. I like the Rick Mercer Report as well. Though he says stupid shit for a laugh sometimes.

[Loony Le Fist]

There's a recent ad that's been raising some eyebrows here: a perplexing fear-mongering ad against loosening restrictions on alcohol sales.

[removed youtube clip]


Here's what I find so stupid about that ad. It's not as if they are even changing the drinking age. They are just allowing more places to sell alcohol. If a store doesn't follow the drinking age laws, then that's a completely separate issue. In fact, there is a statistically insignificantly small negative correlation between the number of businesses that are allowed to sell alcohol and the DUI fatality rate.

In Kentucky, which has record number of dry counties (roughly 50%), the DUI fatality rate is higher than Nevada (3.8 deaths per 1k people to 3). Yet, there are only a handful of mixed counties in Nevada with the rest being dry. Nevada also has half the number of alcohol related fatalities than Kentucky. It is theorized this is due to the larger distances that motorists have to drive in the dry counties. So if you make alcohol more available, I hypothesize, that the DUI rate would come down, since drivers wouldn't need to travel on the roads so long or at all to go on a beer/liquor run. Potentially drunk drivers being on the road less time is a good thing.

Data from: http://responsibility.org/

Map of Kentucky with Wet/Mixed Counties (one's where alcohol is legal to sell)

http://webspace.webring.com/people/hg/gabi138/Harlan/wet-dry.gif




I know it's very different in the United States, and probably varies state-by-state there. Since most members here are, from what I can tell, Americans, I'm curious: what are the laws there and how (if at all) have they impacted underage drinking

It varies here too. Take the example state above, Nevada has very few restrictions on which establishments can have liquor licenses and is one of the few where 24 liquor licenses are available throughout the state. It is also the only state where drinking in public has been made explicitly legal, and it is illegal by state law for any county in Nevada to make it illegal. Kentucky has some of the strictest laws, but they have done nothing to reduce DUI deaths.

There is everything in between when it comes to state laws. But one correlation you will notice, is the one between alcohol deaths, and availability: it's just that it's a negative one. There is a hearsay by way of Judge Jim Gray who claimed the Dutch Minister of Health said, "we have succeeded in making pot boring". I think the same applies to alcohol and availability. It is part of what I believe explains the apparent paradoxical effect.

EDIT: There are some statistical outliers in the data. Louisiana, for instance, which is less restrictive and also has higher DUI fatalities at 4.9/1k cap. Correlation doesn't mean causation. In fact, I think the DUI fatality rate probably has more to do with attitudes about alcohol consumption, rather than general availability.

EDIT: Let me add there are other states that offer 24 hour liquor licenses, but under special circumstances. Nevada just happens to be one of the least restrictive. Changed to "one of the few" instead of "the only".