Interpreting Psychedelic Experiences Rationally

[Skyhilist]

Just came across the article:

http://psychedelicfrontier.com/entities-plant-spirits-real-guide-skeptical-tripping/

Definitely a worthwhile read I think for anyone who's considering trying psychedelics or has taken them already. I've seen a lot of people fall into the trap described in this article where someones religious views wildly change after using psychedelics without any logical reason, and it's definitely something that needs to be carefully avoided so that people using such drugs can gain something out of them, while not having their experiences turn them dogmatic.

Anyways, read the article and let me know what you all think. I thought it was a pretty good perspective on the matter.

[Loony Le Fist]

I have had experiences on psilocybin mushrooms where it felt as if I was communicating with a voice that could be perceived as that of god(s) or aliens. Experiences can be really powerful, but that doesn't mean you are being granted any particular wisdom. That’s going to depend on how you use the experience. I just feel like they grant a different perspective on creativity and situations that you wouldn't have had otherwise. Additionally the voice I heard responding was generally my own. So for me, it’s pretty much a self-conversation.

There are some I've met that claim that mushrooms are a gateway to the higher beings or grant special communication with aliens. While it is evident that many ancient cultures might have held these beliefs, it just doesn't make sense from what we know. That doesn't take away from how cool it is to have great experiences. I love having powerful and awesome trips, especially with good friends. The conversations are usually really good, and often very funny.

[Os Cangaceiros]

No matter what hallucinogen I do, I always keep the kernel in the back of my mind that I've recently taken a psychoactive drug. As long as you keep that kernel back there, you'll be fine. Anyway, my reasons for taking psychadelics (and I've taken a lot of them) have always been more akin to the reasons why people bungee-jump off bridges, and not so much any kind of exploration into the "spirit world" or whatever. The after-effects of those kinds of drugs (esp. psilocybin) for me have always been more about being less depressed and telling everyone I know how awesome they are, like I'm high on ecstasy or something.

It just seems obvious to me that what you perceive while high off your ass on DMT or whatever is NOT REAL, YOU'RE TRIPPING. YOU'RE TRIPPING ON DRUGS.

[Skyhilist]

It just seems obvious to me that what you perceive while high off your ass on DMT or whatever is NOT REAL, YOU'RE TRIPPING. YOU'RE TRIPPING ON DRUGS.

Lol absolutely. I had my first level 5 trips (from a real heavy dose of mushrooms though, not from DMT) - from everything I'd read about, everyone was talking about how some "higher power" communicated with them. And actually, a voice did communicate me while I was in this crazy digitized green room, and it seemed realer than reality at the time. But afterwards I was happy that I was able to say "hey, my brain did that because I was really fucked up - that's not proof of any higher power". A lot of people seem to have trouble realizing that the things they say are completely internal and will perhaps provide insights about oneself, but not so much about the surrounding world.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The dream analogy is a good one.

Purely anecdotal, but I think people interpret it in ways they might already be inclined to interpret it. People I've known who've become more "spititual" after intense trips, well I think they already had an interest in these ideas on some level and were ready to interpret a trip as a "spiritual awakening". If someone trips to "find insights" or have a spiritual experience, then they are likely to interpret a strong trip in that way. Idk, I always saw it as chemistry and I had times that were incredibly "spiritual" or sublime (or horrifying) but I also interpreted this sense of awe in a totally non-supernatural way.

I had an LSD trip that was the best 4 hours followed by 8 hours of sweaty panic under the sheets listening to Abby road over and over again (but skipping the song the ends side A because, obviously, existence would stop if that song played all the way through). The psychic fever broke and I regained calm when time stopped, I suddenly lost all sense of self and the world became nothing but the empty space between atoms. If I had been a spiritual inclined person, this (along with several other, but slightly lesser, mind-blowing hallucinations would have been seen as a religious experience.

Afterwards I did want to evangelically recount the tale to anyone I saw, but like a vivid dream, trip tales are as interesting to the teller as they are excruciatingly dull for the listener.

[Rafiq]

Actually I think it was the fact that (while on LSD) I realized there was nothing profound or spiritual about the trip that made it nightmarish. Constantly thinking about the fact that my brain was being influenced in such a way, that there was no cosmic balance to keep anything in check (regarding the trip) and that I could very well go crazy permanently made it terrifying. I have taken LSD once, just a few months ago actually, and afterwards vowed to never consume any psychoactive drug again with the exception of alcohol.

I wouldn't recommend drugs in general, but if you must, there is no reason to go through something as traumatizing and permanent as an acid trip. For one, one runs the risk of HPPD even after one time, and secondly, all other drug use will re-activate the effects of LSD with the extent being determined by the type of drug and the amount consumed. Other psychedelics, like mushrooms, are not as bad but still I wouldn't recommend them. Again, marijuana in very limited amounts is not so bad, but it's important to remember that all recreational drugs have negative effects on your health one way or another, the question is what is worth it in proportion to the effects yielded, and don't get me wrong, a lot of the times (drinking, smoking, whatever) it's worth it, but not always. Actually on a political level, while not outright denouncing use of drugs like marijuana or drinking, these should be relatively discouraged, or at least their excessive use to the point where it becomes noticeable. What I mean is, this bullshit about it being good for you in any way is complete trash.

[Os Cangaceiros]

LSD is awesome. I don't know why it gets such a bad rap.

It, along with all psychedelics, are definitely not for everyone though. Different strokes.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I have always wanted to try psychedelics like LSD or mescaline, but I have never had the guts because I have always been afraid getting a psychosis.

Have you considered that the opposite might happen, and you may gain lasting positive benefits for your personality? That's how I felt after the first time I took psilocybin (which was the first psychedelic I ever took)

[PC LOAD LETTER]

No matter what hallucinogen I do, I always keep the kernel in the back of my mind that I've recently taken a psychoactive drug. As long as you keep that kernel back there, you'll be fine. Anyway, my reasons for taking psychadelics (and I've taken a lot of them) have always been more akin to the reasons why people bungee-jump off bridges, and not so much any kind of exploration into the "spirit world" or whatever. The after-effects of those kinds of drugs (esp. psilocybin) for me have always been more about being less depressed and telling everyone I know how awesome they are, like I'm high on ecstasy or something.

It just seems obvious to me that what you perceive while high off your ass on DMT or whatever is NOT REAL, YOU'RE TRIPPING. YOU'RE TRIPPING ON DRUGS.
Richard Evans Schultes said, in response to some question about the spiritual nature of psychedelics (if I remember correctly), "Funny, all I saw were colors." Not going to be verbatim, 'cuz it's been so long since I heard it.

I'm right there with ya. LSD, was fun, but the entire time I remember thinking, "hey bro, you're on acid, XYZ is just you trippin'"

[Loony Le Fist]

I have always wanted to try psychedelics like LSD or mescaline, but I have never had the guts because I have always been afraid getting a psychosis. I had a bad experience with Hasch once and since than I have basically been afraid of trying anything other than alcohol, I don't know if I should try it or not?

Alcohol is pretty dangerous. I would actually be more afraid of getting a psychosis from alcohol use than from other drugs. As far as more profound psychedelics, I would suggest starting out with a small dosage of shrooms. And make sure you have someone you trust with you. Having good company helps a lot to prevent bad experiences. Whenever I've had difficult experiences (I guess I'm lucky in that there have been very few for me) they can be traced back to either a bad mindset, or a poor choice of company.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Of everything, I think LSD was the best. Shrooms have been fun, but there's an intoxicating feeling from ingesting a poisonous substance. LSD is a little more edgy, but also clean feeling. I don't know, personal preference.

Low doses basically made me feel like I was having insomnia (mind racing, wrote nonsense for hours... Too bad there was no revleft back then ;) ). Medium doses were more or less manageable and fun, but a high dose actually did make me have the sorts of hallucinations that you might read about (time stopping, intense synesthesia, ODB rapping to me in the room when playing a wu-tang CD, ego-death, feeling like you are Turing into something else, etc) ... But it can also be much less manageable. Frankly the only bad trips I had were the result of outside things: I mixed drugs which sent my trip off into a bad direction, took too much, got stopped by cops, and so on. Friends who've had bad trips were also in a bad headspace to begin with (one friend got really depressed, but he lost his apartment the month before and was crashing on my couch at the time, another friend called her ex fiancé after taking acid... Against my advice, etc). I definitely had moments of panic without any outside stresses causing it, but generally they pass. People are different though... Weed makes me antsy and paranoid but obviously other people just get mellow, alcohol makes some people angry, etc.

But seeing sonic youth on LSD in the 90s, camping under the stars, or seeing fight club the first time in a theater on LSD, is as close to a religious experience as I can get :lol:. Thank you chemistry, science is a much better god.

[RyeN]

There is so much fear around psychedelics that they started a "War On Drugs". Leary used a scientific method and screened people for predisposition to schizophrenia, and other psychological disorders. Then he trained people on what they were going to experience providing a guide map for the trip. Using a safe setting with a sober guide he was able to bring people to an understanding of what it means to not create ego. Oneness with the universe is inherit though the religious spectrum.

Different psychedelics provide different levels of insight into the nonphysical plane. They have played a key roll in different rituals for thousands of years. Just the fact that there is so much fear based around tryptamine based psychedelics that are non toxic and have no physical addictive properties screams that there is something important behind that fear. Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is the most illegal drug here in North America. What scares us so much that research into it is forbidden?

Do psychedelics play an instrumental part in the next phase of our evolution? Could research and experimentation guide people to a higher understanding of the universe and the energy dynamics that are inherent through out? Are we in a revival period of spiritual practice that will make use of our global understanding, and incorporate the truths from all? Can we let go of our concept of individualism enough that we can learn to cooperate with each other to create with positive energy?

We can see that the old system based in fear working in competition breeds negative results. There is inefficiency and waste, suffering and pain all over, and the next greatest thing to distract us from it, but no real solution given. Its apparent that if we continue with buisness as usual we are in for more of the same, only more drastic and on a larger scale until the system fails, lots of people die, and if we are lucky we get a second chance at civilization.

[Slavic]

There is so much fear around psychedelics that they started a "War On Drugs". Leary used a scientific method and screened people for predisposition to schizophrenia, and other psychological disorders. Then he trained people on what they were going to experience providing a guide map for the trip. Using a safe setting with a sober guide he was able to bring people to an understanding of what it means to not create ego. Oneness with the universe is inherit though the religious spectrum.

Despite his silly philosophy, Leary's "The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead" is an excellent primer for providing information and support for those who wish to take psychedelic substances.

[Redistribute the Rep]

Has anybody used psychedelics that alter one's perception of time?

[Slavic]

Has anybody used psychedelics that alter one's perception of time?

All psychedelics that completely alter the conscious do produce distortions of one's perception of time.

[Redistribute the Rep]

Alright but I'm interested in ones that are used specifically for that purpose

[RyeN]

DMT deffinateley does. Smoking it it feels like 12 13hrs passed and it was only 8 minutes at best. Time is relative to the observer.

[Slavic]

Alright but I'm interested in ones that are used specifically for that purpose

Psychedelic substances are not drugs which specifically target a certain field of perception.

There are some which can produce euphoric effects, but the overall "psychedelic" experience is to much of a cocktail of perception distortions that one can specifically tailor make a drug to induce change in just time.

Also distortion of time is boring. My goal has always been the compete obliteration of the body and the self. Once I am obliterated, there there is no "I" there is only "Is". I've only really achieved these results through use of dissociative substances, not your typical "psychedelic".

[Redistribute the Rep]

I've heard of drugs that can exclusively distort time perception on multiple other forums

[Slavic]

I've heard of drugs that can exclusively distort time perception on multiple other forums

This being?

I've never heard of such a thing. Sounds like an urban myth.

[Art Vandelay]

I honestly do like psychedelics, but at the same time it's not the type of thing that I can do very often. I think it's important to have a good setting and to be in a good head space before you take them and as long as I do that (as well as occasionally reminding myself that I've taken a mind altering substance) I've never managed to have a 'bad trip.' I definitely dislike the 'religious/spiritual' aspect to psychedelics, since its nonsense, but its never something I've got, although I've seen it in others and things can surely seem pretty profound at times.

First time I did acid was when I was in highschool and there was some stuff going around by the name of 'the hoffman,' it was pretty good stuff and I found myself partying with people all night. Everyone else was just drinking but it was an awesome time. I remember going into my bedroom and the bed seemed as if it was breathing. I also remember staring at the carpet in the basement and from my point of concentration this design would begin spreading out over the floor. It was the only time I've hallucinated. I've always found that the difference between LSD and mushrooms is that on the former you straight up see things that aren't actually there, whereas with mush whatever you look at just looks trippy.

I've had too many good mushrooms trips to count and while I always have alot of fun, not to mention come out of the experience thinking 'I LOVE EVERYTHING' (which is saying something with me), I still can't take them often. A trip is something I need to absorb and recuperate from for about 6 months to a year. Its probably been 2 years now since my last trip. I'll probably take some mush at folk fest or while camping this summer though.

[RyeN]

Ill give you a breakdown of smoking NN-DMT. When smoking it you should use 1/3 your body weight in kilograms to that many mg of DMT crystal. Pack it in a crystal smoking pipe so that the crystal doesnt get direct heat. Fire your lighter until it fills the pipe, take that hoot and hold it in as long as you can while cookin up the remainder of the hit. Exhale through your nose allowing the smoke to pass your sinuses. Then take the 2nd hoot and hold it in. Imediatley put down your pipe and sit back.

Before you exhale the 2nd hoot, your perception of everything goes and there is nothingness. youll hear the something like the crinkling noise of celephane while the universe disapears. Then you start to freak out because you no longer exist, but all is well. you hear an ascending chime and the 4th dimension starts to unfold around you. Thats when a higher form of light comes and lets you know its all going to be ok. Its hard to explain DMT experience because on the 4th dimension words are not used. These beings use their energy to communicate with you, and they teach you how to use your energy to communicate on the 4th dimension.

Once youve relaxed and learned how to move about and communicate you are tested to see if you are worth of passing the gates into the city of experience. When you pass the tests the gates open and you are in the realm of the nonphysical, where there are all kinds of sense desires that dwarf what we consider to be experience in the 3rd dimension. There is all knowledge avaliable for learning and understanding. For what seems like 10-14 hours of sensory overload you are able to experience this bliss. then it starts to disolve and you are coming back to the 3rd dimension. Only about 6 minutes have passed since you took that 2nd hoot, but you will never be the same person as the person who didnt have that experience.

One thing to keep in mind is to do this in an enviroment where you feel comfortable and relaxed, perhaps with a guide who can chant or pray for you while you are on your journey. If you dont break through on your 1st try you need to give it about an hour before trying again.

But ya as far as time perception, and my whole perception of reality is expanded beyond and it will never be able to go back to what it thought it was. Its a very liberating feeling, but there is also great responsibility that comes along with it. Social action takes on a whole new meaning when you feel the pain of all the oppressed people in the world. All the suffering and pain that is created in fear, when the power of creating with love is so much more rewarding.

[Slavic]

Ill give you a breakdown of smoking NN-DMT. When smoking it you should use 1/3 your body weight in kilograms to that many mg of DMT crystal. Pack it in a crystal smoking pipe so that the crystal doesnt get direct heat. Fire your lighter until it fills the pipe, take that hoot and hold it in as long as you can while cookin up the remainder of the hit. Exhale through your nose allowing the smoke to pass your sinuses. Then take the 2nd hoot and hold it in. Imediatley put down your pipe and sit back.

Before you exhale the 2nd hoot, your perception of everything goes and there is nothingness. youll hear the something like the crinkling noise of celephane while the universe disapears. Then you start to freak out because you no longer exist, but all is well. you hear an ascending chime and the 4th dimension starts to unfold around you. Thats when a higher form of light comes and lets you know its all going to be ok. Its hard to explain DMT experience because on the 4th dimension words are not used. These beings use their energy to communicate with you, and they teach you how to use your energy to communicate on the 4th dimension.

Once youve relaxed and learned how to move about and communicate you are tested to see if you are worth of passing the gates into the city of experience. When you pass the tests the gates open and you are in the realm of the nonphysical, where there are all kinds of sense desires that dwarf what we consider to be experience in the 3rd dimension. There is all knowledge avaliable for learning and understanding. For what seems like 10-14 hours of sensory overload you are able to experience this bliss. then it starts to disolve and you are coming back to the 3rd dimension. Only about 6 minutes have passed since you took that 2nd hoot, but you will never be the same person as the person who didnt have that experience.

One thing to keep in mind is to do this in an enviroment where you feel comfortable and relaxed, perhaps with a guide who can chant or pray for you while you are on your journey. If you dont break through on your 1st try you need to give it about an hour before trying again.

But ya as far as time perception, and my whole perception of reality is expanded beyond and it will never be able to go back to what it thought it was. Its a very liberating feeling, but there is also great responsibility that comes along with it. Social action takes on a whole new meaning when you feel the pain of all the oppressed people in the world. All the suffering and pain that is created in fear, when the power of creating with love is so much more rewarding.

The fourth dimension is time. If one were to become aware of time in its entirety, then you would experience everything that had and will happen at once.

[RyeN]

Time isnt a dimension at all, its just a concept. Time on the conceptual level isnt even very accurate. Where it is measured based on the rotation around the sun it isnt even very percise. Depending on where you live in any time zone there can be a discrepancy of 59 minute. Also the further north or south you go the closer the meridian lines get together. The universe goes on fine without our limited perception of time as observed by the rotation of the sun, and it will go on just fine when we expand our perception of time to include the whole universe. The process is independent of the conceptual perspective, and we see time is realative to the observer, but not a dimension.

[Skyhilist]

Time is often referred to as the fourth dimension, but I believe RyeN was referring to the fourth spatial dimension (or at least how s/he perceives it while tripping on DMT), which is different.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I honestly do like psychedelics, but at the same time it's not the type of thing that I can do very often. I think it's important to have a good setting and to be in a good head space before you take them and as long as I do that (as well as occasionally reminding myself that I've taken a mind altering substance) I've never managed to have a 'bad trip.' I definitely dislike the 'religious/spiritual' aspect to psychedelics, since its nonsense, but its never something I've got, although I've seen it in others and things can surely seem pretty profound at times.

First time I did acid was when I was in highschool and there was some stuff going around by the name of 'the hoffman,' it was pretty good stuff and I found myself partying with people all night. Everyone else was just drinking but it was an awesome time. I remember going into my bedroom and the bed seemed as if it was breathing. I also remember staring at the carpet in the basement and from my point of concentration this design would begin spreading out over the floor. It was the only time I've hallucinated. I've always found that the difference between LSD and mushrooms is that on the former you straight up see things that aren't actually there, whereas with mush whatever you look at just looks trippy.

I've had too many good mushrooms trips to count and while I always have alot of fun, not to mention come out of the experience thinking 'I LOVE EVERYTHING' (which is saying something with me), I still can't take them often. A trip is something I need to absorb and recuperate from for about 6 months to a year. Its probably been 2 years now since my last trip. I'll probably take some mush at folk fest or while camping this summer though.

LSD for me is the "party hallucinogen", aka I can hold conversations with people and shit, while psilocybin usually just results in me sitting in a corner somewhere, staring wide-eyed and softly mumbling "holy shit."

[blake 3:17]

One of the better books on psychedelic experience is Breaking Open the Head by Daniel Pinchbeck. http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/about_the_book.htm

[Tenka]

As much as I think recreational drug-use and Philosophy must go hand-in-hand, I wonder if this is really a safe forum for posting things like:

Ill give you a breakdown of smoking NN-DMT. When smoking it you should use 1/3 your body weight in kilograms to that many mg of DMT crystal. Pack it in a crystal smoking pipe so that the crystal doesnt get direct heat. Fire your lighter until it fills the pipe, take that hoot and hold it in as long as you can while cookin up the remainder of the hit. Exhale through your nose allowing the smoke to pass your sinuses. Then take the 2nd hoot and hold it in. Imediatley put down your pipe and sit back.

P.S. I didn't read the link in the OP. I don't believe there's anything to "interpret" after the fact of a drug-induced hallucinogenic experience, which itself is always a personal interpretation of the brain going wonky.

P.P.S. I have hallucinated before by accident when I took too much cold medicine.