Them Euro Elections what you've read about

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

As it's a little over a month before Nige Farage is knighted as future King-maker and utter darling of the middle-class Right, was wondering how my fellow UK revlefters might be casting their vote come 22nd May.

The choice is not great, seems from the very broadly considered 'left' camp there is only Labour and the Greens. Don't think any TUSC peeps are standing.

Assume most will not be voting, but still, I like polls...even small ones

[Hrafn]

Not a UKer, but...

I'll be voting because it's the first time I'll be able to vote (along with the September general elections in Sweden) and I'd be damned if I let some type of ideological issues with liberal "democracy" stop me from partaking in rites of passage.

[Thirsty Crow]

Not a UKer, but...

I'll be voting because it's the first time I'll be able to vote (along with the September general elections in Sweden) and I'd be damned if I let some type of ideological issues with liberal "democracy" stop me from partaking in rites of passage.
What kind of a rite of passage are you talking about?

As for me, no chance I'm going to be voting. Without any illusion that not voting in general represents action or any kind of a statement (as opposed to a lack of statement) on its own, I won't do so most probably because I couldn't be bothered to travel to my hometown to participate in sending some horrid bureaucrat to Brussels to collect a nice cheque and do nothing really. I also couldn't care less for any stories about the need for the right kind of national representation there.

[Hrafn]

What kind of a rite of passage are you talking about?

The ability to vote is generally a pretty big life event, here. Right up there along with drinking and getting a driver's licence.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

The ability to vote is generally a pretty big life event, here. Right up there along with drinking and getting a driver's licence.

What? Really, seriously? Where the fuck are you living?

[Thirsty Crow]

The ability to vote is generally a pretty big life event, here. Right up there along with drinking and getting a driver's licence.
Why is it a big life event (and where, exactly?)?
That's an honest question. Apart from it signifying that a person has come of age, I can't see how the act itself should constitute a rite of passage. That's why I'm asking about your framework of thought here.

[Hrafn]

What? Really, seriously? Where the fuck are you living?

Sweden. I don't see why you're so upset by this. All your life you're told about how important it is that you'll be able to vote when you're 18 (I'm not 18, of course - the elections just happened to be several years ahead of me).

I use "rite of passage" very loosely. It's not like it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_passage) has to be something extremely major.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Sweden. I don't see why you're so upset by this. All your life you're told about how important it is that you'll be able to vote when you're 18 (I'm not 18, of course - the elections just happened to be several years ahead of me).


I don't know what experiences you've had but aside from the hollow idiotic nonsense spewed by the school and the absurd farce of "school elections", I never encountered much focus on the importance of voting, and generally the experience was regarded as an annoyance more than anything. Then again I was anti-democratic since long before I was old enough to vote.

[Hrafn]

I don't know what experiences you've had but aside from the hollow idiotic nonsense spewed by the school and the absurd farce of "school elections", I never encountered much focus on the importance of voting, and generally the experience was regarded as an annoyance more than anything. Then again I was anti-democratic since long before I was old enough to vote.

And you think I'm not anti-democratic? It has no meaning. Nothing does. Still I'm not going to miss out on it. It's one of those absurd situation where you, despite having been a legal adult for several years, seek to prove yourself as mature.

[Thirsty Crow]

your life you're told about how important it is that you'll be able to vote when you're 18 (I'm not 18, of course - the elections just happened to be several years ahead of me).

Have you ever really asked yourself why is it that children are taught such stories in the first place, what's the basis and purpose of this?


It's one of those absurd situation where you, despite having been a legal adult for several years, seek to prove yourself as mature.And this is even more curious, as I never regarded voting as a potential way of proving yourself as mature.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

And you think I'm not anti-democratic? It has no meaning. Nothing does. Still I'm not going to miss out on it. It's one of those absurd situation where you, despite having been a legal adult for several years, seek to prove yourself as mature.

Well, I don't know about your views too well, to be fair. Vote or not voting doesn't matter and I occasionally have voted (justifying it to myself as some sort of worthless self-defence mechanism - maybe they wouldn't cut my benefits as fast as the others). But I never experienced a culture where it was seen as a rite of passage. I suppose that might depend on your social setting and relations however.

[The Jay]

Here in the US voting really doesn't matter and I suspect that it is the same across the ocean.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

i don't even care enough to go in and doodle all over the ballot paper

[Hrafn]

Have you ever really asked yourself why is it that children are taught such stories in the first place, what's the basis and purpose of this?

And this is even more curious, as I never regarded voting as a potential way of proving yourself as mature.

Wow, you guys really are stunningly thick-headed and judgemental. Read what I've said again. I fully know the falsehoods of the bourgeois liberal system. I am merely entertaining a minor notion that Swedish youths are told throughout their lives.

[Tim Cornelis]

I don't see any strategic or tactical added value in voting in Euroelections, so I won't be voting. (but why ask only for UK?)

[FSL]

Well, I don't know about your views too well, to be fair. Vote or not voting doesn't matter and I occasionally have voted (justifying it to myself as some sort of worthless self-defence mechanism - maybe they wouldn't cut my benefits as fast as the others). But I never experienced a culture where it was seen as a rite of passage. I suppose that might depend on your social setting and relations however.

Fun fact: The most rabid someone is in condemning elections, the most likely they are to vote for labour or the equivalent to keep the "Right" out of office, as if that matters.

I voted in every election I was eligible to vote in and not once did it hoping that "maybe these kind people won't cut my benefits".


If someone who you think is worthy of your support runs, vote for them. Even if there isn't, a spoiled ballot is better than abstaining because that's just brushed off as indifference.

[Tim Cornelis]

Fun fact: The most rabid someone is in condemning elections, the most likely they are to vote for labour or the equivalent to keep the "Right" out of office, as if that matters.

Uuuhh, that makes no sense whatsoever.

[Comrade Jacob]

I may vote to keep the far-right out...but what difference will that do anyway?

[Thirsty Crow]

Wow, you guys really are stunningly thick-headed and judgemental. Read what I've said again. I fully know the falsehoods of the bourgeois liberal system. I am merely entertaining a minor notion that Swedish youths are told throughout their lives.
Did I actually make a judgement? No, I did not. The point is that I'm really surprised that the Swedish political culture is so formed as to make of voting a kind of a rite of passage and a test of maturity. This is very far from both the kinds of political cultures I'm familiar with through reading and the one I'm participating in personally.

On the other hand, personally I wouldn't see any point in entertaining such notions especially in relation to Euro elections if I were indeed familiar with the criticisms of bourgeois politics (and in agreement with said criticisms), but that's the gist of it, I don't think that this is anything like a judgmental attitude.

[Brutus]

I'm 16, so I won't be voting. If I could vote.... I still wouldn't.

[tallguy]

Sweden. I don't see why you're so upset by this. All your life you're told about how important it is that you'll be able to vote when you're 18 (I'm not 18, of course - the elections just happened to be several years ahead of me).

I use "rite of passage" very loosely. It's not like it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_passage) has to be something extremely major.
Don't worry. A significant minority of people here like nothing better than to be given the opportunity to be deeply offended/outraged etc and also let you know in no uncertain terms what a pleb you are for having the ignorance to hold any opinion whatsoever that does utterly integrate into and comply with their idealistic world view.

[FSL]

Uuuhh, that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's not the only senseless thing people do.

[Red Economist]

As it's a little over a month before Nige Farage is knighted as future King-maker and utter darling of the middle-class Right, was wondering how my fellow UK revlefters might be casting their vote come 22nd May.

The choice is not great, seems from the very broadly considered 'left' camp there is only Labour and the Greens. Don't think any TUSC peeps are standing.

Assume most will not be voting, but still, I like polls...even small ones.

Will be voting Green. If it Alternative Vote (which I think it is) Labour will be my second choice.

[Hrafn]

Did I actually make a judgement? No, I did not. The point is that I'm really surprised that the Swedish political culture is so formed as to make of voting a kind of a rite of passage and a test of maturity. This is very far from both the kinds of political cultures I'm familiar with through reading and the one I'm participating in personally.

On the other hand, personally I wouldn't see any point in entertaining such notions especially in relation to Euro elections if I were indeed familiar with the criticisms of bourgeois politics (and in agreement with said criticisms), but that's the gist of it, I don't think that this is anything like a judgmental attitude.

There's a difference between it being a test of maturity and it being a sign of maturity.

I do feel there's a very judgemental attitude here.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Why is it a big life event (and where, exactly?)?
That's an honest question. Apart from it signifying that a person has come of age, I can't see how the act itself should constitute a rite of passage. That's why I'm asking about your framework of thought here.

One can be an abstentationist and still vote. Abstention outside of political context isn't a tactic, it's moralizing hog wash.

I voted in the last general election, spoiled by ballot by writing "Hugo Chavez" but generally for the same reason as Hnart, I turned 18 and my family was excited for me and I wasn't going to explain my communist principles to them to get out of a 15 minute ride to my voting office. One of those annoying people who walk up to you to register to vote came up to me and I registered and intended to vote for Chris Christie because during the floods he came by to my neighborhood and when I spent two weeks in my shithole town with no electricity, social services, gas, or food, and he came down to offer his sympathies I couldn't help but to fall in love with the man. I ended up not voting for him because my buddies wanted to go out on the town and see a movie and I didn't want to let them down (the showing was during voting hours and we hung out down town afterwards) so I went. Now that I'm doing political work I probably won't vote since it'd contradict the work I'm doing but the point of my anecdote is simply that politics outside of politics is stupid, apolitical voting is a more radical statement than "tactically" voting for some lesser shitbag.

[Brutus]

One can be an abstentationist and still vote. Abstention outside of political context isn't a tactic, it's moralizing hog wash.

I voted in the last general election, spoiled by ballot by writing "Hugo Chavez" but generally for the same reason as Hnart, I turned 18 and my family was excited for me and I wasn't going to explain my communist principles to them to get out of a 15 minute ride to my voting office. One of those annoying people who walk up to you to register to vote came up to me and I registered and intended to vote for Chris Christie because during the floods he came by to my neighborhood and when I spent two weeks in my shithole town with no electricity, social services, gas, or food, and he came down to offer his sympathies I couldn't help but not to fall in love with the man. I ended up not voting for him because my buddies wanted to go out on the town and see a movie and I didn't want to let them down (the showing was during voting hours and we hung out down town afterwards) so I went. Now that I'm doing political work I probably won't vote since it'd contradict the work I'm doing but the point of my anecdote is simply that politics outside of politics is stupid, apolitical voting is a more radical statement than "tactically" voting for some lesser shitbag.

You're the badass that registers to vote with the intention of not voting, just so you can show your disdain and gain abstentionist cred. :p

[Q]

I'm not sure if I will be voting SP yet. They, as usual, have an awful underdeveloped leaning-to-nationalist position. It is, as expressed by some members (like this old timer here (https://www.sp.nl/wereld/nieuwsberichten/16172/140410-raad_van_europa_moet_illegale_inlijving_krim_ondub belzinnig_veroordelen.html)), even explicitly pro-rule of law. I will be offering critique towards this and aim to organise SP members on a leftwing opposition to this view.

So, if I will be voting SP, the aim of my vote is not to support the electoral program the SP is standing on, but organise SP members and work on some much needed political education regarding internationalism.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

As it's a little over a month before Nige Farage is knighted as future King-maker and utter darling of the middle-class Right, was wondering how my fellow UK revlefters might be casting their vote come 22nd May.

The choice is not great, seems from the very broadly considered 'left' camp there is only Labour and the Greens. Don't think any TUSC peeps are standing.

Assume most will not be voting, but still, I like polls...even small ones
TUSC are standing in the local elections but in the Euro elections the No2EU, Yes to Workers' Rights group should be standing in most areas. I'm not a huge fan of the No2EU stuff so I'll probably spoil my ballot or something but I'll be voting TUSC in local elections (I'm actually a candidate which I find weird as fuck).

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

On the other hand, personally I wouldn't see any point in entertaining such notions especially in relation to Euro elections if I were indeed familiar with the criticisms of bourgeois politics (and in agreement with said criticisms), but that's the gist of it, I don't think that this is anything like a judgmental attitude.

This year the Swedish general election is coinciding with the Euro-elections, and as a consequence they are predicting "great turnout" (previously, the euro elections were on different dates and no one cared to vote in them, like, sub-U.S. voter participation levels, or nearly so).

[Jolly Red Giant]

Paul Murphy (Socialist Party / CWI) MEP is standing in Dublin fighting to retain the MEP seat won by Joe Higgins in 2009.

Since replacing Joe Higgins as MEP in 2011 (after Joe Higgins was elected to the Irish Parliament) Paul Murphy has played an outstanding role in Ireland campaigning against austerity and exposing the scam of the so-called Jobbridge scheme. Internationally Paul Murphy has been engaged in actively supporting the workers movement and various campaigns in many countries including Greece, Italy, Portugal, Germany, Palestine (which he is banned from re-entering), Iceland, Tunisia, Egypt, Kazakhstan (which he is banned from re-entering). Paul Murphy has been a consistent thorn in the side of the political elites on the EU Commission and EU Parliament.

He has every chance of retaining the MEP seat in a crowded and very difficult electoral contest in Dublin and the Socialist Party and the Anti-Austerity Alliance is fighting hard to win the election.

http://www.paulmurphymep.eu/

https://www.facebook.com/paulmurphy.sp

https://twitter.com/paulmurphymep

[DDR]

I'll vote, I don't know who yet.

[The Idler]

I've started a more extensive poll listing many of the parties standing here
http://www.revleft.com/vb/european-parliament-election-t188324/index.html
this should get some votes from people who wouldn't otherwise reply so hopefully be more representative.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

I may vote to keep the far-right out...but what difference will that do anyway?

Agreed that it may not ultimately matter; capitalism and all it's trappings will go on regardless.
I just have a very personal hatred of Nick Griffin (BNP leader) and Paul Nuttal (UKIP deputy leader) who are MEPs for the North West England region, where I live.
I just want votes to go to people more bearable than them so they lose their jobs and are less visible in political life.
Not the best motivation for voting, but not a bad one either, I think.

[Devrim]

One can be an abstentationist and still vote. Abstention outside of political context isn't a tactic, it's moralizing hog wash.

Well no, you can't really. Political currents that characterise themselves as 'abstentionist' generally think that there is more to it that it being a tactic. The communist left, for example, believes that their are no progressive bourgeois parties, and that the individual party in office doesn't make any difference to the overall condition of the working class. If you genuinely believe that it doesn't matter, why would you bother to make the effort to go and vote.

Left communists don't vote not because we are advocating some abstentionist campaign, which would be pretty pointless at a time when virtually nobody is listening to us, but because we don't believe that it changes anything, not that there is any point to it. If you actually go out and bother to vote, you must believe there is a point to it.

For all the people talking about their first experience of voting, I'm an old man, and I managed to get to this she without ever voting in my life. I don't think I missed out on any life defining experience.

Devrim