Is it save to be openly antifa/commie in...

[Tim Cornelis]

Is it save to be openly antifascist or communist in Flanders (particularly Gent) and Italy (particularly Rome and Tuscany)? This means telling you are antifascist or communist as well as wearing a shirt displaying these beliefs.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

I presume you mean safe? We don't live in the 30's any more despite what some people might have you think. If you see these actions as politically productive which in some contexts they might be seeing the new rise of racism then perhaps. But we don't live in the 30's anymore, and framing them as "anti-fascism" is both larping and an unnecessary defense of liberal democracy in the imperialist metropolis where such sentiment is positively reactionary.

[Tim Cornelis]

Oh the shame, oh the horror. Safe, yes. I mean, if I go there, will I be harassed by right-wingers/fascists.
I only have a vague idea of what you're talking about. "these actions", what actions? "they might be seeing" who? "framing them" who? "unnecessary defence of liberal democracy" what?

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Oh the shame, oh the horror. Safe, yes. I mean, if I go there, will I be harassed by right-wingers/fascists.

That's a question I can't answer, that's only for the people in those perspective areas to say. But as a personal anecdote I know one comrade of an organization I am contact with who once wore a hat with a hammer and sickle on it for a walk (more of an ironic joke than anything else) who was jumped by two white dudes who attacked him while shouting racial epithets at him for being black while walking. So take that as you will.

[Tim Cornelis]

That's a question I can't answer, that's only for the people in those perspective areas to say. But as a personal anecdote I know one comrade of an organization I am contact with who once wore a hat with a hammer and sickle on it for a walk (more of an ironic joke than anything else) who was jumped by two white dudes who attacked him while shouting racial epithets at him for being black while walking. So take that as you will.

Italy or Flanders?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Last time I was in Tuscany (which was a month ago), there were a lot of anti-fa logos around, and some people with obvious anti-fa shirts and so on. But there were also quite a fucking lot of fascist symbols around, particularly from CasaPound.

If you tell people in Italy you're a communist I think most of them will think of the eurocommunist PCI, the sewer communists.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Italy or Flanders?

New York City, I should have clarified, the point of the anecdote is that while political identity won't get you in trouble because it's invisible, taking even the vaguest action towards such (like wearing a dumb ass hat for April fools) will attract some bad attention which could receive a violent reaction spontaneously from white people if you happen to be an oppressed minority since they would perceive your politicization as a direct attack on their status. I doubt this would happen in your situation but the primary difference between our racists and yours is that ours aren't politicized as such so it is very well possible that out of their learned distain for communism they might attack you, but I doubt just some racist from the street would. Again two different contexts but I think it is a useful anecdote to remember about the problems of "presenting" as communist.

Also one more thing to add, there's no reason why you should ever be visibly communist outside of a political context, a strike, protest or some form of communist action where communists collectively intervene in a struggle. This is both for safety reasons because having even a second person around you greatly reduces the chance of getting attacked, and it isn't healthy when your politics are so ingrained in your identity that people can see that you're a communist outside of political activity, kind of like why even though my buddy was wearing that hat for april fools it was still pretty moronic of him to do so because that just makes you look silly.



If you tell people in Italy you're a communist I think most of them will think of the eurocommunist PCI, the sewer communists.

This is another valid point, in the US communist still has it's revolutionary credentials due to always remaining outside of the body politic. However in Europe you aren't really anything but a weird social democrat with a bunch of contradictory beliefs and a soviet fetish. Perhaps this is part of the reason why Communism must always remain "outside" of the public discourse other than as a permanent opposition

[Red Economist]

If your on the far left, no, your probably won't be safe outing yourself amongst strangers. Being political amongst a group of friends who share, sympathize or tolerate/ have an interest in seeing a different point of view is ok. I suppose it might be like drugs (not speaking as someone whose done any btw but who had a few friends who did); it's as enjoyable and as safe as you want it to be if your in the company of people you trust and know what your getting involved in, but most people will shun it as 'immoral', 'unhealthy' etc, (before you hit 'illegal'), even if they have a history of drugs/radical politics. I wouldn't know about being openly active, but I hope this helps a bit; that's a leap I'm still yet to make.
The T-shirt thing (e.g. if it's the infamous Che portrait or hammer/sickle, communist symbols etc) is really for liberals who want to rebel against "the system". it's generally a counter-cultural statement and therefore most people consider it harmless and dismissed as 'young people' celebrating a radical identity through consumerism. If it's a statement of political intent however, I don't think the reaction will go down so well and the socially conditioned anti-communism will kick in.

[Tim Cornelis]

If your on the far left, no, your probably won't be safe outing yourself amongst strangers.

you're*

And this applies to Tuscany/Rome, Flanders/Gent, or in general? Because as for the latter, I don't think this can be said at all -- or even applying the former two. As a communist you need to out yourself as such to strangers, otherwise only those interested in political theory will become communist through self-education.



The T-shirt thing (e.g. if it's the infamous Che portrait or hammer/sickle, communist symbols etc) is really for liberals who want to rebel against "the system". it's generally a counter-cultural statement and therefore most people consider it harmless and dismissed as 'young people' celebrating a radical identity through consumerism. If it's a statement of political intent however, I don't think the reaction will go down so well and the socially conditioned anti-communism will kick in.

I don't mind that, I'm worried about being jumped by two, three, or more beefed up blackshirts.



This is another valid point, in the US communist still has it's

its*
(I need to compensate for my hideous save-safe mistake)

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

its*
(I need to compensate for my hideous save-safe mistake)

No biggy, but yea you really shouldn't be visible when you aren't with other comrades, but not as much for safety concerns but because people who insist on displaying their antifasita and commie street cred while doing non political stuff are tossers. In fact I'd say this is a more important concern than safty. A Communist disdains to conceal his views, he openly proclaims his opposition to the existing order, however that guy who sells newspapers and wears his weird mao t-shirt is a weirdo and no one wants to hear what he has to say

[Taters]

A communist disdains to hide his flipbook full of kim il sung photos.

[Red Economist]

And this applies to Tuscany/Rome, Flanders/Gent, or in general? Because as for the latter, I don't think this can be said at all -- or even applying the former two. As a communist you need to out yourself as such to strangers, otherwise only those interested in political theory will become communist through self-education.I'd say in 'general' as capitalist society can't be that different the world over [edit: I mean politically] and people will adhere to capitalist ideology in one form or another. I'm in the UK and the only people who've had a problem with my politics are my parents (....typical). most of my friends (at uni) were fairly liberal and are in the "don't really care about politics" category [and I've had to learn to chose the time and place to discuss politics]. So revleft is the limit of my 'activism' at the moment as I become more comfortable on the theory and figuring out the do's and dont's of being politically active and aware.

[Tim Cornelis]

I'd say in 'general' as capitalist society can't be that different the world over [edit: I mean politically] and people will adhere to capitalist ideology in one form or another. I'm in the UK and the only people who've had a problem with my politics are my parents (....typical). most of my friends (at uni) were fairly liberal and are in the "don't really care about politics" category [and I've had to learn to chose the time and place to discuss politics]. So revleft is the limit of my 'activism' at the moment as I become more comfortable on the theory and figuring out the do's and dont's of being politically active and aware.

Well there is definitely a big difference. It's foolish to walk around with antifascist symbolism in Moscow due to the widespread presence of ultranationalists, but no one bats an eye if you do so in Amsterdam or Utrecht in the Netherlands. I know there's more fascists in Flanders and Italy than in the Netherlands so I asked if there's any risk involved in being openly communist or antifascist.


No biggy, but yea you really shouldn't be visible when you aren't with other comrades, but not as much for safety concerns but because people who insist on displaying their antifasita and commie street cred while doing non political stuff are tossers. In fact I'd say this is a more important concern than safty. A Communist disdains to conceal his views, he openly proclaims his opposition to the existing order, however that guy who sells newspapers and wears his weird mao t-shirt is a weirdo and no one wants to hear what he has to say

Then I may be a tosser, although I do find many of those people that wear buttons and symbols to be tossers, I sometimes wear this shirt that says alerta antifascista. I don't think it's that bad.

[Quail]

I have an antifascist shirt too... and a couple of general anarchist ones. I don't think there's anything wrong with wearing them (obviously).

[human strike]

That's a question I can't answer.

So why did you post that helpful reply?

[PhoenixAsh]

I am kind of appalled by the answers in the thread. The question of openly displaying anti fascist symbols is in some parts of Europe and Russia relatively dangerous and could hold real risks.

I have not encountered problems in Brussels wairing this but I did in Antwerpen....which led to violence. I wasn't alone there btw but with a group of like minded people. As a general rule I advice you not to display these in Antwerpen if you are alone in some parts of the town. I don't wear them at all myself anymore if I am there alone. I have no experience in Gent.

[Creative Destruction]

Is it save to be openly antifascist or communist in Flanders (particularly Gent) and Italy (particularly Rome and Tuscany)? This means telling you are antifascist or communist as well as wearing a shirt displaying these beliefs.

When I visited Rome, the Italian Communist Party had posters plastered all over the place (I think I even saw a few PRC posters). Of course, there was also a lot of fascist graffiti, as well, which was unsettling. Nonetheless, I would've felt pretty safe letting people know I am a communist, though, if it came up in conversation.

[Tim Cornelis]

When I visited Rome, the Italian Communist Party had posters plastered all over the place (I think I even saw a few PRC posters). Of course, there was also a lot of fascist graffiti, as well, which was unsettling. Nonetheless, I would've felt pretty safe letting people know I am a communist, though, if it came up in conversation.

I can swear you already posted something like this, or did I see into the future?

[Creative Destruction]

I've probably posted something similar in a different thread. It just sort of jarred me, so it's memorable seeing the blatant contrast. Especially as an American where there are no effective contrasts in this country, particularly in the form and content of the propaganda.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

As nice as the general replies are, I'm pretty sure that the point of this thread is the specific climate in the places in question.
There's a difference between wearing an "I <3 Shoplifting" t-shirt in public, and wearing it into a grocery store.

[motion denied]

As nice as the general replies are, I'm pretty sure that the point of this thread is the specific climate in the places in question.
There's a difference between wearing an "I <3 Shoplifting" t-shirt in public, and wearing it into a grocery store.

I'd totally wear this t-shirt.

[Dialectical Wizard]

Is it save to be openly antifascist or communist in Flanders (particularly Gent) and Italy (particularly Rome and Tuscany)? This means telling you are antifascist or communist as well as wearing a shirt displaying these beliefs.

Overall it’s pretty save to walk around with communist symbols in Flanders, Anti-fascist symbolism however might be something else though some people might misconstrue it with actual fascist symbols. Most Right-wingers will probably only eyeball you or mean mug you, they will seldom physically attack you. Maybe only if you encounter some extreme rightists who are drunk or whatever. But again they are pretty marginal and they will be quickly outnumbered if they do try something because Gent is full of left wing students.