Hello all!

[Centre-left]

I'm Welsh and back the Plaid Cymru party. For those who don't know, a centre-left nationalist party that advocates an independent Wales. Hope to enjoy posting on here.

[Q]

Welcome :)

If you have political questions, you can ask them in the Learning forum. That's why it's there after all!

If you have questions about your account, don't hesitate to send me a PM or ask here.

Since Plaid Cymru isn't a revolutionary party, as far as I'm aware, I wonder what attracts you to this party? Why should Wales be an independent state? Wouldn't that undermine British working class unity and, as such, weaken us against global capital?

Just wondering :)

[Centre-left]

Thanks for the welcome and guidance.

I would say Plaid Cymru is revolutionary in its stance. I think it's extremely radical to propose to want to break away from such a historic union that is the UK. The party's scope is largely the same as that of the SNP, who obviously have a far bigger support base in Scotland, even if it looks likely that Alex Salmond will just miss out on independence.

However, support for independence is growing in Wales and I see Plaid Cymru as a true social democratic party that campaigns for social justice, the poorest in society over the rich, and worker's rights. It is also a party that wants Wales to have more power.

It wants the Welsh Assembly to have more power to make its own legislation rather than have to consult the Tory-led central government in England. We want true democracy and don't want policies such as the cruel Bedroom Tax inflicted on the Welsh. I believe in Plaid Cymru as a true left-wing nationalist party that offers a real left-wing socialist alternative to the neo-liberal pro free-market Tories, Labour, Lib Dems and UKIP.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I think it's extremely radical [...]...

It wants the Welsh Assembly to have more power to make its own legislation rather than have to consult the Tory-led central government in England. We want true democracy and don't want policies such as the cruel Bedroom Tax inflicted on the Welsh. I believe in Plaid Cymru as a true left-wing nationalist party that offers a real left-wing socialist alternative to the neo-liberal pro free-market Tories, Labour, Lib Dems and UKIP.

It's not radical. It's as conservative as it is fruitless, an utter waste of all effort, along with the the misguided idea that there is such a thing as a "left-wing nationalism". Nor can there ever be such a thing as "true democracy" within the current political system, which would remain the same in independent Wales/Scotland.

[Centre-left]

I don't know how you think it's Conservative and why left-wing nationalism does not exist. Plaid Cymru are NOT a right-wing party. Read their manifesto, they are considerably more left-wing than the UK Labour party and all their parties are social democratic in value and targeting working-class people.

Breaking away from a union is radical in my view and it is also far more democratic for the Welsh Assembly and people to have the autonomy and power to make their own policies and vote for their own government, knowing it will mean something. Your idea of left-wing revolution appears to be anarchism.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I don't know how you think it's Conservative and why left-wing nationalism does not exist. Plaid Cymru are NOT a right-wing party. Read their manifesto, they are considerably more left-wing than the UK Labour party and all their parties are social democratic in value and targeting working-class people.


Social-democracy is a reactionary conciliatory state-managerial ideology of utterly despicable nature. It is not revolutionary. That the labour party long ago sold out the last remnants of social-democracy was simply a consequence of social-democracy outliving its political and economic usefulness, and it would not resurge with the votes of any fragmented constituency of any sort.


Breaking away from a union is radical in my view and it is also far more democratic for the Welsh Assembly and people to have the autonomy and power to make their own policies and vote for their own government, knowing it will mean something. Your idea of left-wing revolution appears to be anarchism. The welsh assembly is simply a more local organisation. It is no more democracy (and here I am simply arguing by your mode of thinking which incorrectly assumes that democracy is an inherent good) and its political machinations will not change by the fact that it is split. Nations of the world do not require splitting up - they require the destruction of their very frame of existence, of the nation as a concept. You will not change anything by changing your leaders from corrupt London dregs to corrupt Welsh dregs. It is the same.

My revolution appears to be communism. What your 'revolution' is, I do not know, but it appears to be reformism (social-democracy is, at best, reformism) and a misguided exercise in utter futility.

[PhoenixAsh]

Hi. Welcome to RevLeft. Centre-Left meet Takayuki.

....who used their own subtle wording to say that Plaid Cymru is advancing a capitalist mode of production (http://www.partyofwales.org/uploads/Final_Plan_C_Saesneg.pdf). They do advocate decentralization which I think is nice, but meaningless if socio-economic policies are still based on exploitation of the working class. In this sense decentralization will only mean that your exploiters live around the corner...and probably have their housekeepers do their weekend groceries in your local supermarket for them.

National liberation is somewhat of a contended point here and the board is split in two over the issue of whether this is a position the revolutionary left can support or should be considered redundant. You just met two users who believe national liberation is a problem, since they do not believe in nation states.

So from your perspective Plaid Cymru may seem revolutionary....from our perspective...Plaid Cymru is capitalist in nature and not considered revolutionary.

[Q]

National liberation is somewhat of a contended point here and the board is split in two over the issue of whether this is a position the revolutionary left can support or should be considered redundant. You just met two users who believe national liberation is a problem, since they do not believe in nation states.
Just to clarify: I do think that places like Wales and elsewhere have a legitimate national question. I just don't think that this should mean that the British working class should be broken up over it. Because this would simply mean a smaller Welsh capitalist state and another way for global capital to divide and rule over the working class internationally.

The communist way forward would focus on self-determination for the Welsh (and really, for anyone else too) while being united within one societal structure, something like a federal republic would be infinitely more preferable compared to cutting up our class even further along national lines.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Thanks for the welcome and guidance.

I would say Plaid Cymru is revolutionary in its stance. I think it's extremely radical to propose to want to break away from such a historic union that is the UK. The party's scope is largely the same as that of the SNP, who obviously have a far bigger support base in Scotland, even if it looks likely that Alex Salmond will just miss out on independence.

However, support for independence is growing in Wales and I see Plaid Cymru as a true social democratic party that campaigns for social justice, the poorest in society over the rich, and worker's rights. It is also a party that wants Wales to have more power.

It wants the Welsh Assembly to have more power to make its own legislation rather than have to consult the Tory-led central government in England. We want true democracy and don't want policies such as the cruel Bedroom Tax inflicted on the Welsh. I believe in Plaid Cymru as a true left-wing nationalist party that offers a real left-wing socialist alternative to the neo-liberal pro free-market Tories, Labour, Lib Dems and UKIP.

Welcome.

Might I ask what your vision of socialism entails? And the revolution, as well, how do you understand the revolution? Because it seems that you conceive of socialism as a sort of regimented capitalism, of the sort that existed under the semi-mythical "Old Labour", and that you think any sudden and major change is a revolution.

I think most of us here would say that socialism is the social ownership of the means of production, the abolition of private property, the market etc., and that the revolution is the violent overthrow of one class by another.

I hope you will decide to stay on this site and read the debates between members, particularly debates with social-democrats.