So he revolted, then what

[Hippie Kid]

Che led the revolt with Castro. Then what happened? Why is Fidel that moron running the whole show as a dictator?

[nezvanova]

there's lots of books on the subject kid, i advise you to read up on those before asking us. draw your own conclusions.

[Jesus Sanchez]

I agree with nezvanova.


Why is Fidel that moron running the whole show as a dictator?

And a word of advice: You do not call Mr.Castro "Fidel that moron" and/or "a dictator.", on the Che Guevara board. Do that and you are likley to get resticted to the Opposing Ideologies board, and you do NOT want that.

[FistFullOfSteel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 04:46 AM
there's lots of books on the subject kid, i advise you to read up on those before asking us. draw your own conclusions.
agree with the 2 above...read books,search on internet

[Felicia]

Originally posted by Hippie [email protected] 26 2004, 11:11 PM
Che led the revolt with Castro. Then what happened? Why is Fidel that moron running the whole show as a dictator?
after the revolution, Che was given a government position and a position of head of cuba's bank, and he travelled around the world as a diplomat for Cuba. Later, Che went to Africa to help lead guerrilla's in the congo, when that failed he left for Bolivia, where he was killed a year later.

It's not like Che isn't in Cuba's government because Fidel didn't want him to be. Che was a revolutionary, and so he left to fight

[Ortega]

Can't say much more than what's already been said. Read A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson, and if you want to read about Fidel, try Guerrillla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer. It's a very good, mostly unbiased read with lots of information.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Hippie [email protected] 27 2004, 04:11 AM
Che led the revolt with Castro. Then what happened? Why is Fidel that moron running the whole show as a dictator?
Fidel is much smarter and more rational than Che was. Che is not fit to be a leader of a country, or even an administrator of any kind. That is largely why he left Cuba.

[Urban Rubble]

After the revolution Che was given a job as some sort of high ranking economist. He sucked at it horribly, fucked alot of things up.So, he got antsy and went to Bolivia to start a revolution where the conditions for revolution were not there. He was killed in Bolivia.

Che was a war man, he was no politician.

[redsmurfratm]

If you want to know these things then you need to find a good book that will tell you everything that you want to know. Just go to your local book store and pick a book that sounds good and start there.

[nezvanova]

I wouldn't pick just any book on the subject. lots of books are extremely biased (wither pro or anti) niehter of which is a good way to learn about anyone. Jon Lee anderson's biography is a good one, and I've heard good trhings baout commandante (it's supposed to be a lot shorter than jon lee anderson's biography which is thick like a phonebook lol, great read though!)

[Wiesty]

kid seriously read some stuff, Castro was not a moron he was a great man of wisdom and him and che were a team so really if your calling Castro a moron your makin fun of both of them and ya u catch ma drift. Think before you speak.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Guevara and Castro were 2 seperate ppl, but both spear-headed Cuba's revolution...

If one makes fun of Castro, or Guevara (for valid reasons) it's not an insult to both, unless the joke is made towards the revolution...

If you think Castro and Guevara were the same person, you're sadly mistaken...lol.

Read Guevara's "Guerilla Warfare".

EDIT - oh btw, Che was a trained doctor. Very intelligent man he was.

[bubbrubb]

How can you call fidel anything other than a dictator? Maybe he wants to be called the president because he will fell better about himself or something. He is a dictator. And in respnose to a reply earlier, if che was too radical to be the leader then Raul sure is hell it too radical

[Urban Rubble]

How can you call fidel anything other than a dictator?


Maybe he wants to be called the president because he will fell better about himself or something.


He is a dictator.

Ahhh, can you smell the rhetoric ?


And in respnose to a reply earlier, if che was too radical to be the leader then Raul sure is hell it too radical

I don't think Che would have been a fit leader simply because he didn't want to be, he knew he wasn't fit to lead an entire nation, especially one in such a revolutionary state.

Yes, Raul is very radical, who knows how he would do as leader ? It really doesn't matter, he's nearly as old as Fidel. The real question is what will happen when they are both dead.

[redsmurfratm]

You also have to remember that Fidel is the main reason why the revolution happened in cuba. Yes Che did take part in it and yes it was a big part but Fidel is still the one who made it happen. He was the leader since the beggining.

[Jesus Sanchez]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 01:09 PM
You also have to remember that Fidel is the main reason why the revolution happened in cuba. Yes Che did take part in it and yes it was a big part but Fidel is still the one who made it happen. He was the leader since the beggining.
These are my thoughts agsactly, but I thought it would be better for him to find out himself.

[Wiesty]

well if ur talking aboiut castro bein a dicatator like stalin or etc. then ur wrong there. He is a good man lol he walks around the streets of cuba and talks to citizens. And if u mean dictator by he gives huge speaches then all rights to ya. Man his speaches are long

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

wow, Castro walks around and talks to Cubans...omg, he's a saint! (sarcasm).

Castro's done extreme good, and extreme bad. My opinion on him is still iffy. Yes he's done many good things for the Cuban ppl up-to-date, but has done alotta wrong too. Weisty, if u overlook Castro's wrong...your opinion is biased. period.

[TC]

Che served under Castro, they where comrades with the same ideology (basically, though Che was a Stalinist and Castro is not, both are/where marxist-leninists). Castro is a Cuban, his goal for his own political career was to see Cuba free and socialist. Che was not a Cuban (by birth anyways), he wanted to fight the revolution wherever he could, his contribution was different.

The only political differences between Che and Castro is that Che wanted a more centralized government and economy than Castro, and Che supported Mao and Stalin whereas Castro refused to align with either the Soviet Union or the People's Republic of China to the exclusion of the other. Raul Castro's position is the same as Che's and different from Fidel's.

[DeadMan]

I thought Castro only declared him communist to get aid from the Soviet Union. I read this a few times here too. And too me, Che didn't seem like a Stalinist, but then again I haven't read all the biographies like alot of people here.

DeadMan.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 03:16 AM
I thought Castro only declared him communist to get aid from the Soviet Union. I read this a few times here too.
I would imagine you heard that from me, and a lot of users here seem to not like me claim that. But it's the reality for anyone who wants to look at the facts. Che may have been a Leninist, but Fidel never was.

[TC]

"am a Marxist Leninist and I will be one until the last day of my life"
-Fidel Castro, 1961

Admitedly, he was not a Marxist-Leninist during the revolution, he was wrong, Che and Raul made him see that, so he corrected his error. So what?

Besides, when he dies, Cuba will be led by a hard-core Communist.

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 02:19 AM
"am a Marxist Leninist and I will be one until the last day of my life"
-Fidel Castro, 1961

Admitedly, he was not a Marxist-Leninist during the revolution, he was wrong, Che and Raul made him see that, so he corrected his error. So what?

Besides, when he dies, Cuba will be led by a hard-core Communist.
Isn't Raul a Stalinist? I thought they were that harshest of all communist. Very brutal, very commanding, no?

DeadMan.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 07:19 AM
"am a Marxist Leninist and I will be one until the last day of my life"
-Fidel Castro, 1961

Admitedly, he was not a Marxist-Leninist during the revolution, he was wrong, Che and Raul made him see that, so he corrected his error. So what?

Besides, when he dies, Cuba will be led by a hard-core Communist.
And I believe it was in 1960(Or was it '59?) when he said: "I am not a Communist." It is an interesting coincidence that he decided he was a Communist after Soviet relations began to increase. I mean, he spent all of that time with Raul and Che, especially in the prison where they read up on a lot of works, yet it took him that long to decide he was Leninist... Somehow I doubt it. The idea that he decided to 'become' a Socialist to ensure aid from the Soviet Union is pretty consistant with the facts and timing of the change.

And Cuba being lead "by a hard-core Communist" isn't necessarily a good prospect. Jumping for joy over ideologies is pure lunacy. The ideology of the person doesn't always determine their decision making, intelligence, morals, and rationality. In that respect, I wonder about worryingly about Raul.(In hope that it is mere paranoia.)

[Saint-Just]

And I believe it was in 1960(Or was it '59?) when he said: "I am not a Communist." It is an interesting coincidence that he decided he was a Communist after Soviet relations began to increase. I mean, he spent all of that time with Raul and Che, especially in the prison where they read up on a lot of works, yet it took him that long to decide he was Leninist... Somehow I doubt it. The idea that he decided to 'become' a Socialist to ensure aid from the Soviet Union is pretty consistant with the facts and timing of the change.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union Cuba retained its characteristics as a socialist state. He did declare he was a socialist after the revolution. However, the timing was also quite consistent with the removal of the threat from the U.S. Fidel toured the U.S. shortly following the revolution, and reassured politicians that Cuba would not become a communist nation. Why did he do this is he was going to side with the USSR. Evidently Fidel saw a threat from the U.S. to Cuba immediatly following the revolution and thus would not reveal he was a socialist until Cuba was more stable.

Furthermore, Fidel took steps towards socialism above and beyond the kind of socialism the USSR was practicing at the time. Fidel nationalised even the smallest industries. He was obviously further left than the USSR itself. Why would he have done this if he was not concerned about Marxist-Leninist Ideology. I would suggest that Fidel more anti-revisionist than the USSR and a more committed socialist than the USSR which he allied himself with. I would say that Cuba would have allied itself with China following the revolution had China been as wealthy as the USSR.

[RedAnarchist]

If Raul is Stalinist, that will be the end of the Cuban paradise. Stalinism has never been and never will be the most popular type of Communism. The brutal, totalitarian views of a Stalinist will wreck everything Fidel has done.

[LuZhiming]

After the collapse of the Soviet Union Cuba retained its characteristics as a socialist state. He did declare he was a socialist after the revolution. However, the timing was also quite consistent with the removal of the threat from the U.S. Fidel toured the U.S. shortly following the revolution, and reassured politicians that Cuba would not become a communist nation. Why did he do this is he was going to side with the USSR. Evidently Fidel saw a threat from the U.S. to Cuba immediatly following the revolution and thus would not reveal he was a socialist until Cuba was more stable.

Right, so what's your excuse for Fidel's pursuit of the bourgeois career as a lawyer?


Furthermore, Fidel took steps towards socialism above and beyond the kind of socialism the USSR was practicing at the time. Fidel nationalised even the smallest industries. He was obviously further left than the USSR itself.

I don't disagree with any of these statements. The USSR was a reppressive Imperialist dictatorship. But being leftist doesn't necessarily mean being Communist. Nationalizing industries of that sort is a just thing to do. Jacobo Arbenz, Mohammad Mossadegh, and Gamal Abdel-Nasser did the exact same thing, but it would be absurd to call them 'Communists.' Fidel is Fidel, he follows his own guidelines, his own ideologies, his own rules. Fidel does not put restrictions on himself, he does what he wants to. Again, some of his economic policies could be described as Socialist, but it would be an oversimplification to call him a Communist because of those policies. An Anarchist would do the same thing.(Not that I am suggesting Fidel was an anarchist.)


Why would he have done this if he was not concerned about Marxist-Leninist Ideology. I would suggest that Fidel more anti-revisionist than the USSR and a more committed socialist than the USSR which he allied himself with. I would say that Cuba would have allied itself with China following the revolution had China been as wealthy as the USSR.

I am rather sick of this "Marxist-Leninist" term. It is an oxymoron. What Lenin did, was not at all what Marx dreamed of. I would say Fidel was doing what he felt was right and neccessary, and it is as simple as that.

[Urban Rubble]

Che supported Mao and Stalin whereas Castro refused to align with either the Soviet Union or the People's Republic of China to the exclusion of the other.

Wrong. Che had a strong distrust of the USSR, far more so than Castro. Che felt they betrayed them with the missle crisis, Castro did as well, but not to the degree that Che did. Castro did not refuse to align with the Soviets, actually, it was the exact opposite, he aligned with them. Che obviously did as well, but he was very distrustful of the Soviets.


About the whole "Castro isn't a Marxist" thing.

Luzhming, you seem to have the idea that Castro declared himself a Marxist solely to get help from the Soviets, you are completely wrong. Did you ever think that he held out on declaring himself (and Cuba) Marxist so that he might ease the tension coming from the U.S ? That is exactly what he did. You see, in the begining, Castro wanted friendly relations with the states, as any sane leader would. It is obvious to everyone but the slowest people that the U.S would not be friendly with a commie, so he held out on telling everyone that he was one. When the U.S became aggressive anyway, he went to the Soviets for aid.

Castro had been reading Marxist texts since the later days of the revolution. We can't be sure, but I am under the impression that Che had him convinced before the war was even over (as he did with most of the guerillas).


Right, so what's your excuse for Fidel's pursuit of the bourgeois career as a lawyer?

What the hell does that have to do with anything ? I don't agree with Mao that Fidel was a Marxist all the way back then, but what you just said does nothing to prove that. Are you under the impression that Communists can't be lawyers ? Do you think communists can only pursue a carreer that pays low wages ? Are you fucking kidding ?


I am rather sick of this "Marxist-Leninist" term. It is an oxymoron. What Lenin did, was not at all what Marx dreamed of.

It is not an oxymoron at all. Lenin took Marxism and then expanded on it, adding what he thought would make Marxism a viable ideology. It is pointless to speculate whether or not Marx would have agreed. If you are a Marxist who also follows Lenin's teachings, you are a Marxist Leninist. I'm not a Leninist by the way, I just think it's wrong to say that it is an oxymoron.


I mean, he spent all of that time with Raul and Che, especially in the prison where they read up on a lot of works, yet it took him that long to decide he was Leninist... Somehow I doubt it

Fidel is a smart man, and he is a politician. With the goals Fidel had, he would have been very careless to call himself a Socialist from the start. The revolution would have failed if he declared it a Communist revolution from the start. That is almost certain. The people would not have shown the same support.

[Stapler]

Castro is a Cuban, Castro started th revolution, Castro was in charge before Che joined the revolution.

[LuZhiming]

Luzhming, you seem to have the idea that Castro declared himself a Marxist solely to get help from the Soviets, you are completely wrong. Did you ever think that he held out on declaring himself (and Cuba) Marxist so that he might ease the tension coming from the U.S ? That is exactly what he did. You see, in the begining, Castro wanted friendly relations with the states, as any sane leader would. It is obvious to everyone but the slowest people that the U.S would not be friendly with a commie, so he held out on telling everyone that he was one. When the U.S became aggressive anyway, he went to the Soviets for aid.

That's interesting. You see, U.S. planes were bombing Cuba in 1959. Hundreds of thousands of Cuban sugar canes had been destroyed by Cuban exiles in 1960. What sort of aggression was Castro waiting for? It was clear the U.S. would be aggressive towards Cuba regardless of it being Communist or not, what was with the stalling? Mohammad Mossadegh, Sukarno, and Jacobo Arbenz weren't "Communists" either. And if Castro wanted to friendly with the U.S., what's with his constant rhetoric? Why would he dare bring up the various U.S. atrocities over and over?


Castro had been reading Marxist texts since the later days of the revolution. We can't be sure, but I am under the impression that Che had him convinced before the war was even over (as he did with most of the guerillas).

What does that prove? I have read Marx too. So have many Capitalists.


What the hell does that have to do with anything ? I don't agree with Mao that Fidel was a Marxist all the way back then, but what you just said does nothing to prove that. Are you under the impression that Communists can't be lawyers ? Do you think communists can only pursue a carreer that pays low wages ? Are you fucking kidding ?

Why not carry out the benign Revolution rather than pursuing a career most hated by the truest of Communists? You're just making excuses.


It is not an oxymoron at all. Lenin took Marxism and then expanded on it, adding what he thought would make Marxism a viable ideology. It is pointless to speculate whether or not Marx would have agreed. If you are a Marxist who also follows Lenin's teachings, you are a Marxist Leninist. I'm not a Leninist by the way, I just think it's wrong to say that it is an oxymoron.

Haha, he did that while also taking away parts of it. Your either Marxist or not, no in-between, or add-ons. Leninism is Leninism, not Marxism-Leninism. Even if it was somehow influenced from Marx, it is still competely different.


Fidel is a smart man,

I agree completely. That's so far the best part of your post.


and he is a politician. With the goals Fidel had, he would have been very careless to call himself a Socialist from the start. The revolution would have failed if he declared it a Communist revolution from the start. That is almost certain. The people would not have shown the same support.

So the people only decided they wanted a Communist Revolution later on? And how would it have been reckless for Fidel to declare Cuba Communist at the start, or even a few months later for that matter?

[Urban Rubble]

Why not carry out the benign Revolution rather than pursuing a career most hated by the truest of Communists? You're just making excuses.

So the "truest of Communists" hate lawyers ? Again I ask, what the fuck are you talking about ? I for one think some lawyers are great men. I know a lawyer who, after many years of being fucked over by the law, decided to be become a lawyer to help people. If you think there is something wrong with being a lawyer then you're insane. What's wrong is the men who become lawyers to become rich and/or powerful.

You should be outraged that they are paid so much more than the average person. You should hate the fact that many lawyers are assholes who will defend blatantly guilty men to make a profit, but to say that being a lawyer is not a noble profession than you're insane. People need to be defended, especially in the system we live under. Using the fact that he was a lawyer against Fidel is just idiotic.

Che was a doctor and came from a fairly wealthy family, is that wrong as well ? Being a doctor is just as bourgeoise as being a lawyer, are you going to say Che isn't a communist as well ?


Haha, he did that while also taking away parts of it. Your either Marxist or not, no in-between, or add-ons. Leninism is Leninism, not Marxism-Leninism. Even if it was somehow influenced from Marx, it is still competely different.

Have you ever read and fully understood Marx and Lenin ? Honestly, I'm not trying to antagonize you, this question just really makes me wonder.

Marx never really laid out a specific economic plan. Marx never gave any idea of how to put his theories into practive. Lenin took Marxism, gave it a way to become a viable system, made a economic plan, and put it into action. It is not "completely different", that's ridiculous to say.

Saying that there are no add ons to Marx is seriously amazing. I can't believe someone could be so fucking naieve. I have to ask again, have you ever read Marx ? He never really published a way for his theories to be put into practice. If you took everything Marx ever wrote word for word and didn't make any additions it would be completely impossible to ever put it into practice.

I don't agree with Lenin's plans and what he did, but you are just being stupid to say it wasn't an offshoot of Marxism.


So the people only decided they wanted a Communist Revolution later on?

Yes, of course. Are you serious ? The people of Cuba had no idea that the revolution had anything to do with Marxism. All they knew was that it was a group of Cubans meaning to overthrow Batista and free the Cuban people, that was enough for them. Are you actually implying that the people knew it was Communist from the begining ?


And how would it have been reckless for Fidel to declare Cuba Communist at the start, or even a few months later for that matter?

Because the second that the U.S confirmed the guerillas meant to establish a Socialist state they would have sent aid to crush the revolution. They would have done everything they could to stop Castro, and they almost did regardless. Eisenhower's men in Cuba assured him that they weren't Marxist so no action was taken. The man who was responsible for that ( I can't remember his name) later admitted that he regretted that because Castro could have been stopped before he got into power.

Also, the majority of people on the island would not have supported it had they known it was Communist. Do you think all those wealthy landowners who assisted Castro with funds and hiding places would have done so had they known he was going to seize their land afterwards ? You are being very naieve here. The revolution would have been crushed had it been revealed they were Marxists. Che almost did it anyways by being so openly Marxist. I believe he was even told to keep it down.

[RedComrade]

I would be to differ comrade, In the Principles of Communism by Freiderich Engels we see a fairly clear-cut plan of action (here is a text of the said document: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...11/prin-com.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm) ) however, I think it goes without saying that in many respects Lenin's actions differed substantially in many cases with the plan.

[Saint-Just]

Right, so what's your excuse for Fidel's pursuit of the bourgeois career as a lawyer?

I don't think that is important. There are lawyers in socialist Cuba too. I would not be concerned what career Castro pursued at any one time.


I don't disagree with any of these statements. The USSR was a reppressive Imperialist dictatorship. But being leftist doesn't necessarily mean being Communist. Nationalizing industries of that sort is a just thing to do. Jacobo Arbenz, Mohammad Mossadegh, and Gamal Abdel-Nasser did the exact same thing, but it would be absurd to call them 'Communists.' Fidel is Fidel, he follows his own guidelines, his own ideologies, his own rules. Fidel does not put restrictions on himself, he does what he wants to. Again, some of his economic policies could be described as Socialist, but it would be an oversimplification to call him a Communist because of those policies. An Anarchist would do the same thing.(Not that I am suggesting Fidel was an anarchist.)

Most leaders do not necessarily try to emulate someone else. Fidel does what he thinks is best, he is a pragmatist like most leaders. However, he does subscribe to Marxist-Leninist ideology to a good degree. It is evident from the way Cuba is, the political system and the values of that society. I would like him as much whether he is M-L or not. Obviously though, Castro subscribes to a Leninist analysis of imperialism and society in general. Cuba is very similar to any Marxist-Leninist model of society.


I am rather sick of this "Marxist-Leninist" term. It is an oxymoron. What Lenin did, was not at all what Marx dreamed of. I would say Fidel was doing what he felt was right and neccessary, and it is as simple as that.

Lenin developed his ideas based on Marx's analysis of society, of classes and capitalism. This is why he was a Marxist. It is true that Marx did not envision what Lenin did and that on various points Lenin said Marx was wrong. I agree that Fidel does what he feels right and necessary more over than tie himself to M-L, but it is no coincidence that his model of society is based on a Marxist-Leninist analysis.

I wouldn't necessarily call Fidel Castro a communist, however I do not think it is absurd to call him one.

I think you are looking at Fidel and Cuba as you would like to see them. Where as I am not bothered what relation Cuba has to Marxism-Leninism.

[LuZhiming]

So the "truest of Communists" hate lawyers ? Again I ask, what the fuck are you talking about ? I for one think some lawyers are great men. I know a lawyer who, after many years of being fucked over by the law, decided to be become a lawyer to help people. If you think there is something wrong with being a lawyer then you're insane. What's wrong is the men who become lawyers to become rich and/or powerful.

You should be outraged that they are paid so much more than the average person. You should hate the fact that many lawyers are assholes who will defend blatantly guilty men to make a profit, but to say that being a lawyer is not a noble profession than you're insane. People need to be defended, especially in the system we live under. Using the fact that he was a lawyer against Fidel is just idiotic.

Che was a doctor and came from a fairly wealthy family, is that wrong as well ? Being a doctor is just as bourgeoise as being a lawyer, are you going to say Che isn't a communist as well ?

Using it against Fidel? Hahaha, using the fact to argue that Fidel wasn't a 'Communist' isn't in any way putting him down. If his career isn't good enough, why on Earth would he only carry out a Revolution until he was unable to run for President? Was he going to change Cuba's ideology after being democratically elected? That would be odd. Why didn't Fidel join the Communist Party like Raul did?


Have you ever read and fully understood Marx and Lenin ? Honestly, I'm not trying to antagonize you, this question just really makes me wonder.

Marx never really laid out a specific economic plan. Marx never gave any idea of how to put his theories into practive. Lenin took Marxism, gave it a way to become a viable system, made a economic plan, and put it into action. It is not "completely different", that's ridiculous to say.

Saying that there are no add ons to Marx is seriously amazing. I can't believe someone could be so fucking naieve. I have to ask again, have you ever read Marx ? He never really published a way for his theories to be put into practice. If you took everything Marx ever wrote word for word and didn't make any additions it would be completely impossible to ever put it into practice.

I don't agree with Lenin's plans and what he did, but you are just being stupid to say it wasn't an offshoot of Marxism.

Saying it isn't an 'offshoot' is a bit vague. It is a seperate ideology from Marxism that is perhaps influenced by Marxism. It's as simple as that. And Lenin's system was in blatant contradiction of Marx's writings.


Yes, of course. Are you serious ? The people of Cuba had no idea that the revolution had anything to do with Marxism. All they knew was that it was a group of Cubans meaning to overthrow Batista and free the Cuban people, that was enough for them. Are you actually implying that the people knew it was Communist from the begining ?

Of course not, I'm implying that what the Cubans thought it was, was almost exactly what the Revolution was. It wasn't about Communism, there is little reason to believe it was.


Because the second that the U.S confirmed the guerillas meant to establish a Socialist state they would have sent aid to crush the revolution. They would have done everything they could to stop Castro, and they almost did regardless. Eisenhower's men in Cuba assured him that they weren't Marxist so no action was taken. The man who was responsible for that ( I can't remember his name) later admitted that he regretted that because Castro could have been stopped before he got into power.

The U.S. was already carrying out aggression against Cuba in 1959. They were sending weapons to Batista during the entire conflict.


Also, the majority of people on the island would not have supported it had they known it was Communist.

Or had it been Communist for that matter.


Do you think all those wealthy landowners who assisted Castro with funds and hiding places would have done so had they known he was going to seize their land afterwards ? You are being very naieve here. The revolution would have been crushed had it been revealed they were Marxists. Che almost did it anyways by being so openly Marxist. I believe he was even told to keep it down.

Your strongly exagerating the role of wealthy landowners in the Revolution. Most wealthy landowners were against it in the first place.


I don't think that is important. There are lawyers in socialist Cuba too. I would not be concerned what career Castro pursued at any one time.

Well, obviously, lawyers under Cuba's current system. That's quite different. If you don't think that's important fine. But Fidel not joining the Communist Party like Raul did, and trying to run for elections, isn't helping your case much.


Most leaders do not necessarily try to emulate someone else. Fidel does what he thinks is best, he is a pragmatist like most leaders. However, he does subscribe to Marxist-Leninist ideology to a good degree. It is evident from the way Cuba is, the political system and the values of that society. I would like him as much whether he is M-L or not. Obviously though, Castro subscribes to a Leninist analysis of imperialism and society in general. Cuba is very similar to any Marxist-Leninist model of society.

Well, I can't say I necessarily disagree with the above statement. But I want to say that Fidel has instituted some programs that could be considered non-Leninist. What he has done in tourism could be used an example, or what Cuba was doing in the field of agriculture from 1975-1985 -- actually allowing some farmers to sell their own products in a 'free market.' :blink: The popular organizations in Cuba that actually can have voting powers, are things Lenin would probably be scared of.


Lenin developed his ideas based on Marx's analysis of society, of classes and capitalism. This is why he was a Marxist. It is true that Marx did not envision what Lenin did and that on various points Lenin said Marx was wrong. I agree that Fidel does what he feels right and necessary more over than tie himself to M-L, but it is no coincidence that his model of society is based on a Marxist-Leninist analysis.

I am not disagreeing with your reasons for considering Lenin Marxist, but I personally don't think it is enough to make him a Marxist. You can disagree, but I believe that Lenin's direct contradiction of parts of Marx's writings makes him something different than a Marxist. I'm not denying Lenin being influenced by Marxism, but if you ask me, that's not enough.