Anti-China and its economic imperialism in Taiwan (and Hong Kong)

[markchan]

Background:
"The Cross-Strait Service Trade Agreement" is arbitrarily enacted by Taiwanese president Ma Ying-jeou, who is more pro-China than the previous president who emphasizes more on Taiwanese Independence, so that China's capital can enter Taiwan and seize political and economic control over it.

Struggle:
University students started to occupy the legislative building at first. Some students later also occupied the administrative building. But a day ago students occupying the administrative building without weapons were beaten and expelled by anti-revolution police. The occupation in the legislative building is carrying on.

More background and my thoughts as a Hong Kong citizen:
The totalitarian Chinese government always uses corrupted economic power to seize control over Hong Kong and Macau and now they are doing this to China. The corporate governance in Hong Kong is very serious and land prices rise rapidly, similar to the case in mainland China. Small business cannot survive. Only shops owned by big business that sell famous brand-name goods of which the rich mainlanders can afford, are found. The people living in mainland are loaded with ideologies of extreme nationalism (which hides their domestic expliotation) and support these imperialistic moves from mainland China. The Taiwanese are braver and smarter than many Hong Kong people but sadly they are also still too immature in struggles (i.e. students don't bring any weapons and naively believe non-violence is the means that can gain support) and some are also loaded with the Chinese nationalistic ideology or the ideology of free market making them support the trade agreement.

[tuwix]

You probably right. Nevertheless, it's struggle between imperialisms within capitalist culture. I'm afraid it has nothing to do with class struggle nor get anyone closer to socialism.

[RedStarOverChina]

The people against "The Cross-Strait Service Trade Agreement" have nothing against capitalist free market ideology...In fact, they are some of its most fervent proponents. It is solely anti-China sentiments that fuels these protests.

[markchan]

You probably right. Nevertheless, it's struggle between imperialisms within capitalist culture. I'm afraid it has nothing to do with class struggle nor get anyone closer to socialism.

The stupidity of many leftists is that they only think work-place exploitation is the only legitimate form of struggle. They probably still live in the times of industrial revolution and have little knowledge of political and social philosophy. Sorry for the offence.

[markchan]

The people against "The Cross-Strait Service Trade Agreement" have nothing against capitalist free market ideology...In fact, they are some of its most fervent proponents. It is solely anti-China sentiments that fuels these protests.

But you cannot deny China is the representative of state capitalism. The trade agreement obviously only benefits the rich businessmen in China and Taiwan. Taiwanese had been living stable lives with a very little rich-poor disparity.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

The people against "The Cross-Strait Service Trade Agreement" have nothing against capitalist free market ideology...In fact, they are some of its most fervent proponents. It is solely anti-China sentiments that fuels these protests.

The people for it in the Chinese government have nothing against capitalist free market ideology either, except perhaps when making jingoistic speeches on the anniversary of some important date in the Chinese Revolution.

[RedStarOverChina]

But you cannot deny China is the representative of state capitalism. The trade agreement obviously only benefits the rich businessmen in China and Taiwan. Taiwanese had been living stable lives with a very little rich-poor disparity.First, I wouldn't call the rich-poor disparity in Taiwan "very little". Second, that's not the argument being made. Most of it consists of "them chinks gonna take our jawbs!" Others argue the treaty favors Chinese capitalists over Taiwanese capitalist...but that is mostly due to intentional misinterpretation. In actuality the treaty gives a massive advantage to Taiwanese capital. As it stands the mainland already buys 28% of Taiwan's exports and only sell what amounts to 13% of Taiwan's total import.

No doubt the more nuanced of them argue against overt economic reliance upon China. That's a valid argument if you ask me. But even that stems from what I call a sense of superiority of the colonized. They would not object to being reliant upon Western powers such as the US or Japan. But reliance upon "inferior" China is considered degrading.

[Leftsolidarity]

The Taiwanese are braver and smarter than many Hong Kong people

I found this odd. Want to expand on what you mean?

[markchan]

This thread is ruined by an imperialist/stupid guy that perhaps has some vested interest or is a nationalist himself coming from that imperial nation. No more posts on this thread sorry guys. Not wasting time.

[RedStarOverChina]

Right...I'm an imperialist for not supporting what is essentially an anti-China movement that has its supporters brandishing signs saying "chinks get out".
https://news.powerapple.com/article_attachments/file/2014079/1395335248_933611.jpg

While I've seen too many racist idiots with profound self-hatred to be fazed by the likes of you, I'm more offended by your disingenuous attempt to whitewash this right wing xenophobic movement and paint it as somehow "leftist".

This I cannot abide.

[Leftsolidarity]

This thread is ruined by an imperialist/stupid guy that perhaps has some vested interest or is a nationalist himself coming from that imperial nation. No more posts on this thread sorry guys. Not wasting time.

You didn't address my question about what you meant by the line I quoted. I would really appreciate a response to that as it is worrying.

[markchan]

Right...I'm an imperialist for not supporting what is essentially an anti-China movement that has its supporters brandishing signs saying "chinks get out".

While I've seen too many racist idiots with profound self-hatred to be fazed by the likes of you, I'm more offended by your disingenuous attempt to whitewash this right wing xenophobic movement and paint it as somehow "leftist".

This I cannot abide.

Yeah. That's why some 'leftists' support Russia to suppress the 'fascist' Ukranian! :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:

[markchan]

You didn't address my question about what you meant by the line I quoted. I would really appreciate a response to that as it is worrying.

This is difficult for foreigners to understand! Even my professor working in Hong Kong for many years say she cannot understand. But if you really want to know, I'll try.

Hong Kong was a colony of Britian so that Hong Kong people were not given many chances to enter the colonial government. Education on politics was little as a colony while people are very money-minded due to economic boom in Hong Kong back in 80s and the emergence of professional class: Instrumental rationality was much trained but not substantive rationality in this professional class resulting to the fact that many new middle-classes in Hong Kong are doctors, architects, accountants and lawyers who are proficient in discipline and efficiency only and money-minded but with little political sense.

These people (there are a lot of them since Hong Kong was economically successful) are well-off enough so they do not commit themselves to the democratic development of Hong Kong and always plan to immigrate to western countries to escape the political instability in Hong Kong or think that it maybe better to concentrate on economic development. They are indifferent to politics in brief.

Paradoxically, the major democratic social movements in Hong Kong are led by these middle-classes (both high andf low middle-classes) as they hold certain Western neo-liberal values and thus are against the totalitarian communist party of China. But as I have said, they are not very committed and just want to find some moral comfort. And their political indifference and obsession with non-violence prevents them from more violent and long-term anti-government movement.

So I know the biggest question pops up in many's mind now, especially this is a leftist forum as I know many of you have obsession with working-class! In Hong Kong, most of the working-classes are supporters of the pro-Beijing parties. There are some fake labor parties that offer economic benefits in working-classes' social network like providing cheap furniture/electronics or giving out free food in festivals. (Their money come from the Beijing government). They use these minor economic benefits in exchange of working-class' votes. These 'labor parties' actually serve the Beijing government and big business when voting in legislative council (but since even the middle-class in Hong Kong lacks political knowledge, not to mention the working-class, so they simply have no clue of this)

And If you don't trust this is state capitalism still (I know for this site people are Marxists and care only about economics and class struggle. Okay, let me analyze this from an economic perspective) , The Economist has just revealed that Hong Kong ranked top in crony-capitalism index. Taiwan is going to be the next one.

http://www.economist.com/news/international/21599041-countries-where-politically-connected-businessmen-are-most-likely-prosper-planet

[ThisIsInternetClash]

A few points on this topic.

This movement is very difficult to simplify, for those saying it's bravely standing against China or for those saying it's solely anti-China.

There are elements of the protest which are without any shadow of a doubt anti-China and pro-independence. There has been xenophobic sentiments aired, but in general these are voices in the minority.

The true concern for many protesters is the lack of transparency the KMT have allowed over the CSSTA, Ma has forced the Agreement through the Yuan without allowing the opposition a full review. This is what initially fueled the occupation who are calling for the abolition of the agreement and more transparency and say for the electorate in future Cross-Straight agreements.

Another major point of the protests stems from the last paragraph, the feeling that the KMT are going back to what they know best dictatorship. This is a real fear and the Taiwanese public do not want to go back to the days of the White Terror. That said the DPP are going to offer no real alternative either as all the public will get is a CSSTA light.

That said, there actually has been nightly discussions and speeches on political issues around the Yuan with titles such as end free trade. A lot of people are also disillusioned with the DPP and an anti china policy, they are looking for an alternative. Most people stand against the Anti-Chinese ideas, but want nothing to do with the Chinese government and for good reason. In general students are radicalizing and we could be witnessing the birth of the true left in Taiwan.

[cyu]

http://chinaworker.info/en/2014/03/30/6591/

This was the biggest demonstration in Taiwan’s history. The gigantic demonstration was clearly not just about the trade deal, but reflected massive anger over the Kuomintang (KMT) government’s handling of the political standoff since around 300 students occupied the Legislative Yuan (parliament).

The demands of the protest movement have now expanded from the original opposition to the CSSTA pact, to calling for the resignation of President Ma and of Premier Jiang Yi-huah, who ordered the brutal police crackdown last Sunday.

Stickers, placards and banners with slogans such as “When dictatorship is a fact, revolution is a duty” filled the hands of the protesters. Ma was deeply unpopular before the current crisis (9 percent in the last opinion poll before the occupation) and is now even more the focus of the massive discontent.

The KMT, which ruled Taiwan as an open military dictatorship for four decades before adapting to ‘democracy’ in the late 1980s, has in recent years drawn closer to the ruling Chinese dictatorship. Both sides have put historical enmity (the Chinese civil war) aside in the interest of mega-profits for the capitalists, which is the main motivation behind the CSSTA deal. The KMT largely won the 2012 election due to economic pressure – verging on blackmail – from Taiwan tycoons with big investments in China who threatened that a defeat for Ma would lead to investment and jobs leaving Taiwan.

the Taiwan capitalists’ are the prime movers behind the KMT’s embrace of the Chinese regime and have few qualms about trading away democratic freedoms for bigger profits.

http://media.chinaworker.info/2014/03/TW-demo-600x337.jpg

The anger of the Taiwanese people towards the government is palpable, but is also increasingly sceptical towards the opposition Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) whom many feel do not really offer any real alternative to the unbridled neoliberal capitalism of the KMT. The DPP (whose former leader Tsai Ing-wen cites Thatcher and Reagan as leaders she admires), are not the solution to the demands of the protestors as they are still a party with a capitalist agenda for Taiwan, as shown by the fact that they do not completely reject the CSSTA, but rather want to keep it while tagging on some DPP amendments.

Sections of the student leadership are also coming under pressure from the DPP to tone down the demands and expectations of the movement.

As each day passes the mood of the protesters is becoming more radical than the position of the DPP leaders and even the student leaders at the present time. The demand for Ma to resign was one of the main slogans chanted at the demonstration, which goes further than the demands of the student leaders.