Wilders latest racist stunt finnally sparks broad public outrage

[Sasha]

so for years Geert Wilders and his PVV party kept the dutch parliamentary politics and the media hostage with his invoking of freedom of speech and the political murder of Pim Fortuyn. Yesterday, after the municipal elections, his ever escalating rhetoric and progression towards being an unabashed extreme-right party finally unleashed widespread condemnation and the beginnings of a broad mainstream counter movement after he enticed his public at a election gathering to chant that they wanted "less Moroccans" in the Netherlands. That a few days ago he, self declared flag bearer of the freedom of speech, threatened to sue any one who compared him and his party to the nazi party really didn't help.

Thousands of dutch, native and "immigrant" are pressing charges at the police, a facebook where people promise to press racism charges got over 70.000 likes in less than 48 hours, tomorrow an already planned anti-racist demonstration will probably turn pretty damn massive.
being the filthy opportunists that they are the political parties and media who where always to afraid to take any stand against him are finally jumping on the condemn Wilders bandwagon, PVV party members are leaving the party left and right and taking their seats with them, 2 already in the national; chamber and even one who re-won his municipal seat in the Hague only two days ago and hasn't even been installed yet.
on the night wilders made his statement there was already an impromptu radical response by the AFA the Hague group who picketed his meeting, I expect a sizable radical block at the demo saturday too.

its still too see if this will really be a breaking point where broad dutch society will finally take a firm stand against the creeping fascism and the poison of racism that has been spread for years now but it certainly feels like spring has finally come.

i'll post links to (mainstream) media reports below, where possible in english.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I don't get how it really would be a break. All parties promote nationalist chauvinism and the VVD and PvdA are oh so disgusted with these comments while criminalising illegality and deporting them. I think Wilders was quite right pointing out Samsom's hypocrisy by referencing a remark Samsom made about Moroccans having an "ethnic monopoly" on street disorder. Wilders' party still lacks the most important aspect of fascism (street-violence against leftists, trade-unionists and foreigners). There's the possibility of the PVV becoming a fascist organisation (lurking fascism or something). But it's an illusion to think that a break with PVV will necessarily imply a break with racism, nationalism and chauvinism, that would mean a break with constitutionalism as well and that's just not something that's happening right now.

[Sasha]

article in the guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/20/dutch-politician-geert-wilders-moroccans-outrage-pvv-party-anti-islam

in the washington post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/dutch-populist-faces-backlash-on-moroccan-remarks/2014/03/21/ef236028-b10a-11e3-b8b3-44b1d1cd4c1f_story.html

[Sasha]

afa action: http://afanl.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/afa-den-haag-in-actie-bij-racistisch-pvv-verkiezingsfeest/

[Sasha]

I don't get how it really would be a break. All parties promote nationalist chauvinism and the VVD and PvdA are oh so disgusted with these comments while criminalising illegality and deporting them. I think Wilders was quite right pointing out Samsom's hypocrisy by referencing a remark Samsom made about Moroccans having an "ethnic monopoly" on street disorder. Wilders' party still lacks the most important aspect of fascism (street-violence against leftists, trade-unionists and foreigners). There's the possibility of the PVV becoming a fascist organisation (lurking fascism or something). But it's an illusion to think that a break with PVV will necessarily imply a break with racism, nationalism and chauvinism, that would mean a break with constitutionalism as well and that's just not something that's happening right now.

oh absolutely, like said, the outrage in the political parties and the media is very hypocritical, but their ever moving to the right was of course partly caused by years of acting like Wilders his party and ideas where legitimate options. I have no hope this will be a radical turnaround, but at least people are standing up against the ever turning for the worst.

and streetviolence related to the PVV has been on the rise as of late as could have been seen on what happened around the black pete demonstration in october; http://afanl.wordpress.com/2013/10/26/pro-zwarte-piet-manifestatie-orgie-van-racisme/

[Halert]

Comitee 21 march organizes an event on 22 .
*takes a look at the event*
"OMG I missed the event"
*takes a second look*
"o wait the organization is called 21 march, the event is on saterday, phew.."

I always get confused.

[Sasha]

The rats are abandoning the ship, here in the netherlands you can take your political seat with you if you leave your party and the PVV is losing representatives and thus their seats right and extreme-right ;)
in the last two days Wilders lost;
2 house members
9 municipal members (1 in the hague and 8 out of 9 in Almere, since wilders only has municipal seats in these two towns a painful hit)
5 "provinciale staten" seats (the netherlands is divided in 12 provinces, these seats are important because they elect the senate which is not directly chosen by the people)
and to top it of his PVV leader in the EU parliament just quited as well.
its only a matter of time before more will follow...
and i thought i had a shitty night :lol:

[Halert]

His castle is crumbling, it's a great day! but we shouldn't count him out yet, many times before people said wilders would go down, but he is still around.

[PhoenixAsh]

Technically these PVV politicians are rats leaving the ship out of opportunism and not ideology. Nobody could have been surprised...he has been saying the same things for years only less blatantly.

Most of them have emphasized that they still stand firmly behind PVV policy and program. The reason they left was the fact that Wilders had dropped all pretense and...I paraphrase..."didn't take it back or nuanced his statement".

But yeah...this is a pretty massive blow.

Also I would like to add that several mainstream parties have refused to rule out alliances with the PVV even after his statement.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

Even though there's is a racist undercurrent in the policies of most political parties, I'd still rather see someone vote for the champagne socialists of Pvda than for the Nationalists of PVV.

The preferable electoral choice is of course SP, despite the more 'moderate' position they've adopted. I might actually be tempted to vote for Groenlinks if I lived in the Netherlands. Fortunately, it's a lot easier to decide who to vote for in Belgium.

[PhoenixAsh]

Groen Links are "grachtengordel" socialists focusing on the middle class and petit bourgeois....the liberal left, basically, (if they can still be called left even) since Femke Halsema. There are older members from the parties that merged to form GL, like the pacifist-socialist-party and the Communist Party, that are active in advocating a more radical left liberal position...but so far they haven't managed to correct the current party development.

[synthesis]

Thousands of dutch, native and "immigrant" are pressing charges at the police, a facebook where people promise to press racism charges got over 70.000 likes in less than 48 hours

What a major win for the anti-fascist movement. Maybe this will be a new trend: instead of street violence, let's just go and tattle on the far-right to the state.

[Sasha]

Hey, I never said it was the way people should fight, its not my style and pretty counter productive though in this specific context understandable, wilders got prosecuted before and got off because he argued that as long as he was rallying against a religion and not an ethnic minority it was not discrimination, also the bourgeois parties constantly tell the immigrant community that the "rechtstaat" and article 1 of the constitution are there to protect them, the pressing charges should be seen in that light, exposing the lie that everyone is equal under the law, because wilders gets off again and again on the basis of free speech while coloured people (for example rappers) who attack him verbally get prosecuted for hatespeech and calls to violence.

[PhoenixAsh]

Well...the PVV is and will always be the PVV.

Currently the 9 councilmen/women in Almere are staying as part of the PVV....as well as the 4 PS seats of Flevoland. They are currently saying it was all based on a misunderstanding.

[PhoenixAsh]

PvdA is considering no platforming the PVV politically.

[Sasha]

Now at the demo, about 8000 people, nice...

[Sasha]

Currently the 9 councilmen/women in Almere are staying as part of the PVV....as well as the 4 PS seats of Flevoland. They are currently saying it was all based on a misunderstanding.


not really, they said they remain when Wilders will take his statements back (which he wont), that the ball is in his court now. which means that they are defying wilders, enticing him to speak out again (which so far he hasnt done), trying to take the PVV name away from him, thats a pretty big thing.
they went as far to expell the one councilman who remained loyal to Wilders from the PVV fraction.
I wonder what will happen Tuesday at the PVV house fraction meeting, whether they will put up a challenge against him and/or whether more will quit.
meanwhile 2 of the 3 provinciale staten members in friesland did leave this morning.

[Red Commissar]

I feel like Wilders has said worse in the past, how is this the straw that broke the camel's back?

[PhoenixAsh]

not really, they said they remain when Wilders will take his statements back (which he wont), that the ball is in his court now. which means that they are defying wilders, enticing him to speak out again (which so far he hasnt done), trying to take the PVV name away from him, thats a pretty big thing.
they went as far to expell the one councilman who remained loyal to Wilders from the PVV fraction.
I wonder what will happen Tuesday at the PVV house fraction meeting, whether they will put up a challenge against him and/or whether more will quit.
meanwhile 2 of the 3 provinciale staten members in friesland did leave this morning.

They did build in an important caveat. If his statement was meant in the light of reducing immigration and sending those back with criminal records or who have been accused of welfare fraud and stimulating voluntary departure they will stay. They still fully endorse the party program and mission which basically says the exact same thing as Wilders said during the election night. Basically their position is: we are racist and we fully endorse racism but we don't want to be actually labelled as such.

Wilders already said his statement should be seen in that light so I think nothing will really change.

CJ has been barred from the PVV, but is still a member and representative, because he chose to absorb the function of fraction leader and official representative rather than his position to support Wilders and refused to participate in the fraction meeting the next morning. He is also accused of stating that the Almere fraction wanted to leave the PVV and refused to correct that statement.

Plus...and this is really, really important. The whole statement Wilders made is really not the main reason many PVV officials are leaving the party. Some of the more important ones have done so because of long opposition to the left economic turn Wilders has made in the last year away from liberal conservatism.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Groen Links are "grachtengordel" socialists focusing on the middle class and petit bourgeois....the liberal left, basically, (if they can still be called left even) since Femke Halsema. There are older members from the parties that merged to form GL, like the pacifist-socialist-party and the Communist Party, that are active in advocating a more radical left liberal position...but so far they haven't managed to correct the current party development.

Most CPNers have long gone to either NCPN or SP, I don't think there are very many still in GL.

[PhoenixAsh]

Most CPNers have long gone to either NCPN or SP, I don't think there are very many still in GL.

Most of them have...or they are dead...or moved to the PvdA. Some of them are still in GL.

That said...CPN wasn't really a communist party in their last year but some vague left of center cuddle party divorced from day to day reality of the working class.

Also..on a totally unrelated note...the NCPN should really, really, really do something about their website.

http://www.ncpn.nl/

This one isn't much better either

http://www.vcp.nu/

[Sasha]

Seeing how much the NCPN is hopelessly stuck in the past its only fitting their website is too...

[Halert]

Just came back from the demo, there where a lot good of people, it's a good sign. The mayor wanted to give a speech but he was "boohed", he is a social dem from a party that carries out anti-imigration policy.

[Sasha]

I left before the mayors speech good to hear people stayed to give him an earful.

[PhoenixAsh]

Live stream reaction of Wilders now on.

He, as expected, nuances his statement as follows:

We do want less Moroccans. We have always stated this. I will take nothing back of what I said. We do not want to deport the Moroccan community. We do however think we should stimulate them to remigrate; we should deport those with a criminal record and those who commit social security fraud. Those who conform and work hard have nothing to fear.

[PhoenixAsh]

There is a lot of: OMG I have been abjectly painted as Hitler while I have exercised my democratic rights. I have not been convicted as a racist and the only one being able to accuse me of this would be the justice system.

He also said the DA is not objective and politically motivated since they are led by the minister of Justice (VVD) who rejected my statements as "disgusting" and he compared this to hate speech which served to create false sentiment against him while he only analysed the problem with Moroccans and offered solutions to the problems they create and pose.

He also said he wouldn't step down...that he doesn't know what will happen to the amount of party offcials but will not stop doing what he is doing even if he has to do it with less people.

[PhoenixAsh]

The tactic that is now chosen is the offensive. In effect Wilders is saying:

The party turmoil is not caused by the party line or program but because of the hate speech directed against Wilders and the PVV which creates such a hostile atmosphere that party officials were forced to do so. Any resulting prosecution is politically motivated and enacted by representatives of parties that fear the political influence and strength of the PVV and are jealous of the results. As a given the blame lies mostly with the PvdA, who lost heavily in the last elections, and who really are to blame for creating the state in which the Netherlands now find itself.

Meanwhile on twitter support for Wilders after his statement is exploding.

[Sasha]

Opstelten is VVD not PVDA (not that it makes a difference)

[PhoenixAsh]

Yup...got confused. He mentioned Van der Laan in the same sentence. I have corrected it.

on that note: Have you heard what the PvdA said about their huge loss? "We failed to get our message across".

I think they are confused. They succeeded splendidly in getting the message across and people did understand it. Which is why they didn't vote for the PvdA. :D

[Halert]

Wilders called out samson(PVDA) for being a hypocrite. Because he said Moroccans have an ethnic monopoly on street disorder and intimidation. For once he is right, pvda is full of opportunists, who would gladly spew racist hate if means they can get more votes.

[Sasha]

highspeed video of the demo to show how much and diverse people there where (just put the sound off to not hear the horrible music some dolt put over it); 89789064

at 2.27 my afa flag pops by

[Sasha]

some more pictures and vids: http://www.rtvnh.nl/nieuws/139997/Duizenden+bij+anti-Wilders+demonstratie+%5Bmet+video%5D

[PhoenixAsh]

I was planning on going to the demo but got the city wrong. So I was in The Hague. FML.

...impressive how much police was tailing the demo. 5 normal vans and 7 riot vans. wauw. I bet they weren't there for moral support :rolleyes: ;)

[Sasha]

the amount of visible riotpolice surprised me actually, i found it pretty low, i assume they where all in the parallel streets. there was a shit load of bike-cops though, that was new for me.
we got some attention from the plainclothed assholes at the start but then some wanabe salafist kiddies ran by and we got downgraded as an group of interest.

[Sasha]

the scene at the starting point was bizarre though, apparently Obama and some other hotshots from the nuclear summit are going to visit the museums somewhere this week and they made the museumplein already look like a post apocalyptic no mans land, the whole thing is closed of with belfast walls and fences and they put a three story wall of shipping containers around the van gogh museum, it was pretty damn bizarre

[PhoenixAsh]

Polls state the PVV would have lost 5 seats of the 27 if there were national elections. These 5 seats would be divided between D66 and SP which would both have 23 seats in parliament.

5 seats may sound like a lot but Wilders has dealt with these numbers before and managed to come out on top. If anything these mere 5 seats are a good indicator of the level of structural racism in our country.

[PhoenixAsh]

The 8 remaining PVV council members of Almere will remain in the PVV and will not, as previously mentioned, leave the PVV.

PVV also announced their list for the EU elections. Of its previous 5 seats they now hold only 3 after two PVV representatives left after Wilders speech. The list is restructured with both long standing PVV members and new vetted members.

The latest scandal involving Wilders serves to slowly radicalize the party. All members currently staying in the party have silently conformed to the "new" and more open racism. What is evident is that the party is radicalizing more and more in its social policy...while its economic policy is adapted towards the left to create the most support under lower income voters. Its increased ties with FN and VB plus other right wing parties are either a sign or a result of this.

[Das war einmal]

not really, they said they remain when Wilders will take his statements back (which he wont), that the ball is in his court now. which means that they are defying wilders, enticing him to speak out again (which so far he hasnt done), trying to take the PVV name away from him, thats a pretty big thing.


As expected, he didn't take back his statement, but they stayed anyway, 'the left media failed to tear us apart' what a bunch of pathetic opportunists.

[Das war einmal]

Polls state the PVV would have lost 5 seats of the 27 if there were national elections. These 5 seats would be divided between D66 and SP which would both have 23 seats in parliament.

5 seats may sound like a lot but Wilders has dealt with these numbers before and managed to come out on top. If anything these mere 5 seats are a good indicator of the level of structural racism in our country.

Not quite sure about the legitimacy of the polls, the upcoming EP elections will give more clarity but you're right about the structural racism. But what bothers me is that it's ok for the media to promote the idea of 'headrag-tax' ('kopvoddentaks' a very racist idea that every women with a veil should pay tax because 'the polluter pays' - his literal words) and other vile racist statements, but only just now he's gone too far.

[Das war einmal]

Plus...and this is really, really important. The whole statement Wilders made is really not the main reason many PVV officials are leaving the party. Some of the more important ones have done so because of long opposition to the left economic turn Wilders has made in the last year away from liberal conservatism.

Yeah one of them said that, but there are also those who despised his authoritarian way of leadership and were waiting for the right opportunity to abandon ship. Those who are staying now are probably doing so because they have 0 chance of finding a new job once they leave.

[0zgurluk]

oh absolutely, like said, the outrage in the political parties and the media is very hypocritical, but their ever moving to the right was of course partly caused by years of acting like Wilders his party and ideas where legitimate options. I have no hope this will be a radical turnaround, but at least people are standing up against the ever turning for the worst.