fractal-vortex
12th March 2014, 20:38
On the Nature of the Present War (between Russia and Ukraine),
and How to Struggle Against It
In Kiev, Ukraine, we have a project called "Open Microphone", https://www.facebook.com/openmicrophone.xxi The goal of the project is to provide a microphone, and an audience, for anyone caring to speak on the present events in Ukraine and in the world. We're located on the outskirts of "Maidan", i.e. the central political arena in Kiev today. There are always a lot of people who are passing by and willing to stand and listen, or speak, on one of the topics of the current events.
Besides providing a microphone for the general audience, members of the project discuss the events among themselves. The following discussion has taken place among two members of "Open Microphone", on the pages of Facebook:
Person A:
The events in Ukraine show the inevitability of war when the ruling bureaucracy attempts to divide among itself the state property. It is this bureaucracy which is the cause of the civil war now emerging in our republics. If we are citizens, and not farm animals, we should declare war against those who are enmeshing us now in the civil war!
If we shall struggle against the Russians, we're in reality struggling for the dominance of Yulia Timoshenko and her clan, all those like Sergey Taruta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhiy_Taruta ), Igor Kolomoisky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolomoisky ), and fascists from "Svoboda". If we shall struggle on the side of Russia, we shall be supporting the clan of Yanukovich, and together with it, the clan of Putin. All of them are gangsters, mafia (by which we mean a synthesis of high government officials with organized crime; they act together in concert in order to steal state property and state resources). They should all burn in hell. Our war is against all these organized criminal groups. We should be explaining the nature and the origin of this war.
Person B (writing in Ukrainian, as she is a Ukrainian nationalist):
If we're force to chose between two clans, I will support the same side as before. I have already said that people under the present (temporary) government are necessary for us at the place which they occupy, for a number of reasons, including not repeating the mistakes of 1918 (which is when the Ukrainian republic proclaimed its independence). If we should touch the government today, we shall be helpless in face of Moscow. They are the only ones who have any hope of being heard in the West; we, ourselves, won't be able to do it. That is obvious. We cannot take on the world. IMHO
Person A:
The essence of your argument: 1) without the current government, we're helpless in the face of Moscow; 2) the current government has the support of the West (of Ukraine? the world?).
But now let's think: what are the causes of the present war? In essence, it is in the current system of government, when several clans of gangsters are competing with each other for territory. This is the cause for the break up of the Soviet Union. They want to privatize the state property which has been created with the labor of all citizens of the USSR.
The present government is one of such criminal groups. Before, we had the gang of Yanukovich, now - it is the band of Timoshenko, and behind it - the band of "Svoboda", which are undisguised fascists.
We should struggle against causes of appearance of such wars. Hence, we should not be against one of the gangs, especially one which is not "our own", but first of all against "our own" gang. It is not our war. It is a war for the interests of the Tymoshenko gang. This is war in the interests of the USA, which want to establish military bases here aimed against Russia.
As an analogy, look at the attitude of Lenin towards the First World War. It was a war of predators for their own interests, and one of these war the tsarist Russia. Of course, the soldiers were fed the fairy-tales about "patriotism" and war against "Kaiser" and the need for fulfilling our obligations to our allies (England, France), etc. In reality, the tsarist Russia wanted to take hold of the Turkish straits, the Dardanelles, and the city of Istanbul. Lenin has chosen the slogan of "Turning the imperialist war into a civil one", as that a war in the interests of imperialists. And hence it was necessary to turn it into a war against imperialists, i.e. a civil one. His tactic for Russia was "defeatism", i.e. against own government. Everything must be done for a revolution against such government.
And Lenin has fulfilled his promise: as soon as there was an October revolution (of 1917), immediately peace was offered to Germany, see Brest-Litovsk treaty, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brest-Litovsk_Treaty Lenin has made public the secret agreements which shed light on the real goals for which Russia was involved in this war.
Revolution in Russia, peace between Germany and Russia has made possible the beginning of revolution in Germany in 1918. For this reason Germany has exited the war. Kaiser fled.
Similar situation exists today: if we can overthrow the current government, and all the criminal gang behind it, then a revolution in Russia becomes possible, revolution against the gang of Putin. Only in this way, it appears to me, is peace possible.
That is why I disagree with your posting where you write about the necessity of war against Moscow. First enemy is inside; these are our oligarchs, our bureaucrats, our mafia and gangsters.
What is your attitude to this problem? Please write to us through Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/openmicrophone.xxi
and How to Struggle Against It
In Kiev, Ukraine, we have a project called "Open Microphone", https://www.facebook.com/openmicrophone.xxi The goal of the project is to provide a microphone, and an audience, for anyone caring to speak on the present events in Ukraine and in the world. We're located on the outskirts of "Maidan", i.e. the central political arena in Kiev today. There are always a lot of people who are passing by and willing to stand and listen, or speak, on one of the topics of the current events.
Besides providing a microphone for the general audience, members of the project discuss the events among themselves. The following discussion has taken place among two members of "Open Microphone", on the pages of Facebook:
Person A:
The events in Ukraine show the inevitability of war when the ruling bureaucracy attempts to divide among itself the state property. It is this bureaucracy which is the cause of the civil war now emerging in our republics. If we are citizens, and not farm animals, we should declare war against those who are enmeshing us now in the civil war!
If we shall struggle against the Russians, we're in reality struggling for the dominance of Yulia Timoshenko and her clan, all those like Sergey Taruta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhiy_Taruta ), Igor Kolomoisky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolomoisky ), and fascists from "Svoboda". If we shall struggle on the side of Russia, we shall be supporting the clan of Yanukovich, and together with it, the clan of Putin. All of them are gangsters, mafia (by which we mean a synthesis of high government officials with organized crime; they act together in concert in order to steal state property and state resources). They should all burn in hell. Our war is against all these organized criminal groups. We should be explaining the nature and the origin of this war.
Person B (writing in Ukrainian, as she is a Ukrainian nationalist):
If we're force to chose between two clans, I will support the same side as before. I have already said that people under the present (temporary) government are necessary for us at the place which they occupy, for a number of reasons, including not repeating the mistakes of 1918 (which is when the Ukrainian republic proclaimed its independence). If we should touch the government today, we shall be helpless in face of Moscow. They are the only ones who have any hope of being heard in the West; we, ourselves, won't be able to do it. That is obvious. We cannot take on the world. IMHO
Person A:
The essence of your argument: 1) without the current government, we're helpless in the face of Moscow; 2) the current government has the support of the West (of Ukraine? the world?).
But now let's think: what are the causes of the present war? In essence, it is in the current system of government, when several clans of gangsters are competing with each other for territory. This is the cause for the break up of the Soviet Union. They want to privatize the state property which has been created with the labor of all citizens of the USSR.
The present government is one of such criminal groups. Before, we had the gang of Yanukovich, now - it is the band of Timoshenko, and behind it - the band of "Svoboda", which are undisguised fascists.
We should struggle against causes of appearance of such wars. Hence, we should not be against one of the gangs, especially one which is not "our own", but first of all against "our own" gang. It is not our war. It is a war for the interests of the Tymoshenko gang. This is war in the interests of the USA, which want to establish military bases here aimed against Russia.
As an analogy, look at the attitude of Lenin towards the First World War. It was a war of predators for their own interests, and one of these war the tsarist Russia. Of course, the soldiers were fed the fairy-tales about "patriotism" and war against "Kaiser" and the need for fulfilling our obligations to our allies (England, France), etc. In reality, the tsarist Russia wanted to take hold of the Turkish straits, the Dardanelles, and the city of Istanbul. Lenin has chosen the slogan of "Turning the imperialist war into a civil one", as that a war in the interests of imperialists. And hence it was necessary to turn it into a war against imperialists, i.e. a civil one. His tactic for Russia was "defeatism", i.e. against own government. Everything must be done for a revolution against such government.
And Lenin has fulfilled his promise: as soon as there was an October revolution (of 1917), immediately peace was offered to Germany, see Brest-Litovsk treaty, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brest-Litovsk_Treaty Lenin has made public the secret agreements which shed light on the real goals for which Russia was involved in this war.
Revolution in Russia, peace between Germany and Russia has made possible the beginning of revolution in Germany in 1918. For this reason Germany has exited the war. Kaiser fled.
Similar situation exists today: if we can overthrow the current government, and all the criminal gang behind it, then a revolution in Russia becomes possible, revolution against the gang of Putin. Only in this way, it appears to me, is peace possible.
That is why I disagree with your posting where you write about the necessity of war against Moscow. First enemy is inside; these are our oligarchs, our bureaucrats, our mafia and gangsters.
What is your attitude to this problem? Please write to us through Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/openmicrophone.xxi