Relationship troubles

[Thanatos]

Both romantic and platonic relationships......

We are different. We have a different view of society. Not saying Marxism or anarchism is a lifestyle choice, but still it does shape our attitude, ideas, and pretty much everything else.

In this context, do you find it hard to develop and sustain relationships? You may avoid talking about politics with people, but deep down you know that most are unwitting pawns of capitalism, whereas you are enlightened. Regarding every issue, most people are going to have a simplistic view (unemployed=lazy, patriotism=good, etc.), whereas you have a scientific view.

Does this make it hard for you .... like you can't relate to anyone? In short, is your enlightenment a curse?

[Sinister Intents]

"Does this make it hard for you .... like you can't relate to anyone? In short, is your enlightenment a curse?"

At times it indeed can be, but at other points it brings up interesting and at times fun discussion with people. Usually I don't feel like I can relate to anyone, unless I find another leftist, and I met a women who is a feminist which is perfect for me because we share a huge amount in common, so in this case enlightenment isn't a curse.

[tuwix]

In short, is your enlightenment a curse?

I wouldn't describe it as curse. However, I understand what you mean. To say:'you know, I'm against private property' during the first date likely is an end of the date. But when you'll say: 'you know, I read one guy who said that private property is a source of the crime's majority because...' can get her interested.

IMHO almost all people are unaware communists. Ask anybody: would you like to live in a system when everything is free and you do whatever you like? And the most of them will say: Yes! The only problem is that they don't believe it's possible. :)

[#FF0000]

Does this make it hard for you .... like you can't relate to anyone? In short, is your enlightenment a curse?

If one's in a place where one feels they can ask something like this, then chances are enlightenment isn't actually their problem.

[BIXX]

My views can in some ways make it harder to relate to people, but ice always been bad at relating to people so it's not a huge deal.

[Thanatos]

If one's in a place where one feels they can ask something like this, then chances are enlightenment isn't actually their problem.

How so?

[rylasasin]

Yes, I find it hard to relate to anyone...

But then again that's probably more of a result of my autism/aspergers than my Marxism, as this was true long before I even know what Marxism even was.

[synthesis]

My exceptional and admirable political enlightenment hasn't prevented many relationships; I'd say a majority of my close friends really buy into that Illuminati/Freemason shit. I think the main factor is whether or not you and the people you're around actually enjoy disagreeing and arguing and debating about that kind of stuff. For whatever reason, the only thing that I could see categorically preventing me from either dating or becoming close friends with someone is if they were really hardcore pro-Israel.

[Thanatos]

I wouldn't describe it as curse. However, I understand what you mean. To say:'you know, I'm against private property' during the first date likely is an end of the date. But when you'll say: 'you know, I read one guy who said that private property is a source of the crime's majority because...' can get her interested.

IMHO almost all people are unaware communists. Ask anybody: would you like to live in a system when everything is free and you do whatever you like? And the most of them will say: Yes! The only problem is that they don't believe it's possible. :)

One doesn't have to talk about politics or anything at all. But the mere fact of seeing things differently ....... so hard to convey all this on a forum. It might even be something unrelated to politics, economics etc.

For instance, love. Most might believe in some fairy tale notion, Hollywood fantasy. You know that this so-called love has an evolutionary origin - it is simply a mechanism for maximizing our reproductive success. Sugar-coat it as many modern mind would - and you get love, romance, and whatnot.

Just an example, a non-political example. Even in such instances, the huge difference in perception plays a role.

[Thanatos]

On a general note, I feel that most people have misunderstood the OP - I am not talking about political (or other) disagreements that you might have with others. That is a non-issue because you can simply stop talking about contentious issues.

I am not talking about ideology, either. I am talking about something even more fundamental - perception. The way you see things ... contrast it with the way others see the same things ...... this gap may be so huge that you feel like you can't relate to them.

[Rosa Partizan]

I'm really blessed for having a rather leftist environment. Well, I study in a rather conservative town, but my friends and acquaintances tend to the left. My friends from the university are a bit more moderate about that, but the people I hang around with in the autonomous centre, who I go to hardcore concerts with, are very leftist and pro-communism, anti-nationalism, anti-sexism blah blah, so it's awesome, there is no one who wouldn't understand my thoughts about political and societal issues. But as soon as I leave this "circle" of people, meeting other cool people becomes tough, yeah.

[Alan OldStudent]

It would be hard for me to be romantically involved with someone who is not at least sympathetic to the left and socialism.

But I have several good friends who are really not political or are even somewhat conservative. We don't talk politics much, but when we do, it gives me the opportunity to listen to a different point of view and perhaps learn something.

There are so many other things that I can share with such people besides politics, maybe art, walks in the park, good books and shows, music, and so on.

I have been working with homeless advocates, and I share that activity with even religious and politically moderate people whose hearts are in the right place. They learn from me and I learn from them. I also have been marginally involved in the $15/hour minimum wage movement, and some of the other people involved aren't radicals.

Most people don't hold to my Marxism, but I find they may have many insights and traits that I admire.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent
The unexamined life is not worth living—Socrates
Gracias a la vida, que me ha dado tanto—Violeta Parra

[Red Economist]

you're just unplugging from "the matrix" Thantos. :grin:

it takes some getting used to.

"Liberal" or "capitalist" political beliefs are based on the assumption that reality or the perception of "the laws of nature" are the same for everyone and that their sense of right and wrong is universal. Marxism is not- hence the very definition and 'perception' of reality changes. It's really freaky.


In this context, do you find it hard to develop and sustain relationships? You may avoid talking about politics with people, but deep down you know that most are unwitting pawns of capitalism, whereas you are enlightened. Regarding every issue, most people are going to have a simplistic view (unemployed=lazy, patriotism=good, etc.), whereas you have a scientific view.

I've been unemployed for a long-time (mental health issues mean I'm 'stuck' as I don't have the concentration to sustain the effort). My friends do bring up the "are you looking for a job?" stuff and I really want to tell them to F**K off as I'm dealing with personal issues on an hourly basis and the idea of putting myself in a job interview situation with a history of mental health problems, unemployment and far left views makes me- not surprisingly- uncomfortable.
After discovering that I'm bisexual, suddenly this turned sex in to a 'political' issue and I was surprised just how jumpy everyone (including myself) was around the subject. This is not simply 'bi' or 'homophobia', but that other people just think- "err, can I really talk about this stuff?"/ "do you really have to talk about this now?".


For instance, love. Most might believe in some fairy tale notion, Hollywood fantasy. You know that this so-called love has an evolutionary origin - it is simply a mechanism for maximizing our reproductive success. Sugar-coat it as many modern mind would - and you get love, romance, and whatnot.

My attitudes to sex, relationship and 'romantic love' have undergone some pretty wild changes as part of coming out, but it involves a hell of a lot of politics as well because the 'norms of behavior' have changed. I use to be conservative, but now in theory I would accept free love. Practicing it however, is something I'm yet to 'get around to' as I still lack the confidence to really see anyone.



Does this make it hard for you .... like you can't relate to anyone? In short, is your enlightenment a curse?

yes and no. The 'enlightenment' makes you a better person, and because you genuinely care about people, this can improve the quality of your relationships. What has surprised me and hurt me quite deeply is the increasing knowledge of how poor my relationships have been in the past because- without knowing it- they have have always come second to economic concerns; (e.g. you move house, change schools or jobs, that's it- you have to start over and lose pretty much all your friends in one go. I can think of only one person who is an exception to this). Yet, now I know about this, I can do something about it- though it is quite limited.
That said 'enlightenment' puts you on collision course; the left politicizes everything and suddenly what other people think is normal, you see as a problem. :lol:
The far left should really have a manual on dealing with this 'perceptual' change.
I've realized it is a question of 'choosing your battles' wisely on whether it is a big issue that causes harm to someone else and letting a certain amount go.
I've found that in the process being on the left was a great way to bury and cover up lots of anger issues [beyond the 'oh no, the rich are screwing with us again' moments] and in dealing with them, finding the right time and place for politics has gotten easier, but it remains an 'art' as you learn to accept very few people will share all your views, but sometimes you'll bring up one and it will strike a chord.


One doesn't have to talk about politics or anything at all. But the mere fact of seeing things differently ....... so hard to convey all this on a forum. It might even be something unrelated to politics, economics etc.

As I've got more in to leftist politics, the way I see things is different from other people and I've gone through the "is it me or them" period and accepted it's a bit of both. My behavior has changed gradually overtime and you can feel the 'gap' opening up between your friends and family.
You see things differently and because you're using a different system of logic [heavy amount of dialectical materialism in my case] you "join things up differently".
It's subtle, but when you get in deep- you really notice it. Whilst your using the same language as the people your talking to (e.g English), the words have different meanings (because of the politics/philosophy/logic) and therefore you have to know how to 'translate' to bridge the gap. so keeping conversation simple and using as little terminology as possible is a must. [This is also a pretty good defence against 'bullsh*t' dressed up as Marxism]


On a general note, I feel that most people have misunderstood the OP - I am not talking about political (or other) disagreements that you might have with others. That is a non-issue because you can simply stop talking about contentious issues. I am not talking about ideology, either. I am talking about something even more fundamental - perception. The way you see things ... contrast it with the way others see the same things ...... this gap may be so huge that you feel like you can't relate to them.


In case you're wondering; No, Your not Crazy. Originally when this started happening because I have depression/anxiety etc, I did wonder. but then I kind of realized that if your not hurting anyone, it doesn't really matter what you believe. For some reason- I found this very difficult to accept because by changing my beliefs I was 'insulting' my 'peers' (some kind of invisible authority) by not conforming... a truly bizarre experience, but it does teach you a lot about conformity- both by being told to think a certain way and how thinking in such a way limits and defines your behavior based on what you think is real and possible.
I've learned to treat my politics as a 'religious view' in the same way that where as I can see 'god in the deatils' other people can't. I remember a bible story about a man walking alone on the beach and he asks why god wasn't with him; then god replies he was always been there and the guy turns round and sees the two sets of footprints. I found Marxism has suddenly brought "order to chaos" and when you re-examine your own personal history- where once you were on your own, suddenly something 'else' is there too, but's it not god- just a kind a law of necessity.

I have reached a point where I begin to understand why religion's disagree as it is not simply a 'point of view' or perspective, but the very psychological perception/conception of reality. They really do believe it not simply based on conviction, but it's in the way they literally see the world. It is kind of fun to think about how everyone is worshiping the 'wrong' god; "money", "capitalism", "freedom of choice", etc. that seditious self-love goes with knowing your a heretic....
This throws up problems however, as it is a largely intuitive sense of 'right and wrong', 'cause and effect' which- through reading and thinking- you have quite consciously trained yourself into. So I'm still going through the process of thinking 'is this true' or have I just stumbled into another dimension by accident, but I kind of like it here...

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

Being friends with and relating to people who aren't socialists isn't a problem for me as long as they're not politically active. In other words, I'd have a hard time building a relationship with a person who is a classical liberal or a nationalist. Indeed, people see the world in different ways and sometimes that can create a gap that's hard to bridge.

On the other hand, I have been friends with people who were and are fairly right wing. The problem is that pretty much any given subject can turn into a political one pretty quickly. I would cringe when my right wing friends talked about homeless people, the unemployed or immigrants.

Also, there's another problem. Being 'left' is one thing but what bothers me the most in everyday life is the denial of sexism. I've found that this leads to far more heated arguments for some reason.

[tuwix]

On a general note, I feel that most people have misunderstood the OP - I am not talking about political (or other) disagreements that you might have with others. That is a non-issue because you can simply stop talking about contentious issues.

I am not talking about ideology, either. I am talking about something even more fundamental - perception. The way you see things ... contrast it with the way others see the same things ...... this gap may be so huge that you feel like you can't relate to them.

Well, I was feeling such gap too. When I started to talk with real people in train and buses, I got amazed how much they know. I realized they know very well that they robbed by rich ones but they feel force-less to do something with that. I think you need a time to realize they are not so different than you. :)

[Ro Laren]

I'm an anxiety ridden, oversensitive nerd and relating to people has never exactly been my strong point. But yeah, my political perception probably complicates it even more.

I'm too easily annoyed, too easily riled up, especially about politics, that it makes getting to know people who's views differ significantly from mine...stressful.

[Firebrand]

I've found it worse dealing with non-political people than with active right wingers in some ways. People who are actively right wing at least don't make the assumption that you see the world the same way they do. (sometimes I wonder if they experience the same problem as we do but in reverse). What really bothers me is the people who are so brainwashed into the ruling ideology that they can't even accept that there is a debate over certain topics. They can't conceive of a different way of looking a the world and they get upset and angry when they realize how different your view of the world is. Not because of what you believe but because they fact that you believe it throws into question all the basic assumptions that their views are based on. For example when I mention the fact that I don't believe in private property, some people get really bothered by it because the whole basis of their views on a whole range of topics is reliant on an assumption that private property is a universal ideal.

[Futility Personified]

I find with friendships, the only time it becomes a barrier is when I am in a rage and struggle to let go in anything less than a long winded rant. This is often met with bemusement or indifference (I am not a scary person), though in some ways that can be worse. A lot of my friends differ with me on many things, but tend to be open minded or empathetic, occasionally sympathetic. At the end of the day, what matters is that they are there for you and you are there for them. Similarities in how you perceive the world will help you become friends, but forgiving others or understanding that they do things differently is how you remain so.

With romantic relationships, i've found that I do struggle though. Consumerist tendencies turn me off like life support in a power cut and as a self-involved bastard the disdain for selfies and all that other bollocks is hypocritical but something difficult to get past. Having values that seem to belong in another century can put you at odds, but as ever, it is all about the right kind of person. There are some people that you are just in tune with, share a vibe with, where these tensions will not surface to the fore because they do not need to be expressed.

As ruling class culture is imposed upon us, most of it is bound to alienate leftists. This is the real kicker in forming relationships or maintaining them with others, to my mind. Does X promote homophobia? Does Y reinforce the patriarchy? Did I watch it, did I hear it, did I enjoy it? Did I fuck. Isolating yourself from the culture you find yourself in is a natural reaction when it so full of horseshite, which means common ground can be hard to find with people sometimes. That said, for trying to get on with people, Andrew Jackson Jihad sang: "If you have love in your heart, then who am I to judge you?"