Anarcho-syndicalism

[liberlict]

What are the revolutionary lefts's objections to anarcho-syndicalism, if any?

[Blake's Baby]

At worst, it doesn't go beyond corporatist capitalism. 'The mines for the miners' only works if 'we're all miners now'. Otherwise you end up with the miners' syndicate trading with the power-workers' syndicate and the railway workers' syndicate and the water-management synicate an the engineers' syndicate... effectively you end up with the Soviet Union run by industrial unions rather than the Party. Which is no improvement.

[RedThinker]

Anarchist would say, don't think or touch the state, my Marxist view would say, give the state and turn it to the power of the proletarian and let the state die slowly.

I don't think that an anarchistic revolution would be able to exist, as the consensus-politics form of finding a solution will paralyze all kind of movement.

Trotskij said: That theories of anarchism is like an umbrella with a lot of holes in it, it is useless when it rains.

The the dictatorship of the minority will here be the biggest problem, as soon as one don't like the opinions of the group, the whole group has to accept that opinion. We also saw it in the Occupy Wallstreet movement, as Allan Woods quotes from the Occupy movements Reddit forum: The discussions were useless, as soon as one was against it we discussed his points to, an endless void of different views (This is of cause simplified by me).
Here comes another problem with anarchism, you could think that those who are against the majority, should't really be a part of the majority in the first place, which could slowly dissolve the revolution.

From my point of view, we have to find leaders chosen by the proletarian who are willing to lead in the proletarians best will. Of cause this is also possible for anarchism but that will pretty much go against their views.

[tuwix]

What are the revolutionary lefts's objections to anarcho-syndicalism, if any?

It's just scenario for the Marxist first phase of socialism and IMHO the worst one of all anarchist movement because assumes creation of some elite that is union. It could lead to restriction of membership in unions and situation similar to that in state capitalist countries as the Soviet Unions. But if we assume there would be any restriction membership forbidden, it could a sort of socializing the means of productions exactly as Marx advocated.

[Os Cangaceiros]

That it places all the emphasis on economic power with no emphasis on political power. That it mistakes the fundamental nature of the modern trade movement (or deludes itself about the nature of unions in some way). Objections related to decentralized economic forms & organization.

Then you have a whole host of objections to the "anarcho" prefix.

[Bala Perdida]

What's the difference between this and council communism?
I still see some hope for both theories, but I don't think they'llbe effective on their own. I prefer an insurrectionary take to anarchism.

[Blake's Baby]

In practice, not a lot.

Council Communism however still posits a rupture rather than the notion of 'building the new in the shell of the old', which some Anarcho-syndicalists have. Lenin and Bordiga at different times both considered the German Left as 'syndicalist' though (but then Bordiga thought everyone was a syndicalist, including Gramsci and Stalin).

[NGNM85]

What are the revolutionary lefts's objections to anarcho-syndicalism, if any?

Anarcho-syndicalists are `revolutionary´ Leftists. Hell, even reformist Socialists are `revolutionary´ in the literal sense, although, this is not the way that it is typically used in Radical parlance. The objection would vary by ideology. Trotskyists will tell you one thing, Maoists another, `Orthodox´ Marxists, a third thing, etc., etc.

[Sasha]

It made sense in the (pre-)fordist eras but now its as obsolete as bolshevism..

[Kill all the fetuses!]

It made sense in the (pre-)fordist eras but now its as obsolete as bolshevism..

That sounds interesting, could you please elaborate a little bit more on your statement?

[liberlict]

At worst, it doesn't go beyond corporatist capitalism. 'The mines for the miners' only works if 'we're all miners now'. Otherwise you end up with the miners' syndicate trading with the power-workers' syndicate and the railway workers' syndicate and the water-management synicate an the engineers' syndicate... effectively you end up with the Soviet Union run by industrial unions rather than the Party. Which is no improvement.

True enough .. obviously a mining syndicate alone would be fucked and hopeless. But syndicates could cooperate with each other when it suits.

[liberlict]

Anarcho-syndicalists are `revolutionary´ Leftists. Hell, even reformist Socialists are `revolutionary´ in the literal sense, although, this is not the way that it is typically used in Radical parlance. The objection would vary by ideology. Trotskyists will tell you one thing, Maoists another, `Orthodox´ Marxists, a third thing, etc., etc.

Oh maybe I've interpreted it wrong. I always though of syndicalism as a volunteerist arrangement between worker communes, without requiring any economic 'class' based revolution writ large.

[Slavic]

Oh maybe I've interpreted it wrong. I always though of syndicalism as a volunteerist arrangement between worker communes, without requiring any economic 'class' based revolution writ large.

I am under the impression that syndicalism as its own seeks to change the landscape of political power through such worker communes. More like a collection or a singular mass workers union which will wield enough power to bring about a DotP, as opposed to a mass movement which wills a DotP.

I do not believe that a syndicalist approach can bring about a DotP; it is just another form of unionism working within a capitalist society. I do believe though that the syndicalist method of labor organization is a useful tool during and after a revolution. Much more preferable to a top-down economic system which has the tendency to strength instead of wither the state.

[Comrade Jacob]

I'm currently reading Rudolf Rocker's 'Anarcho-Syndicalism'.
I'll post my opinion when it has been read.
Page 35 and so far it's meh.