Getting away from faux meats/dairy products on a vegan diet?

[Skyhilist]

So I'm vegan and planning on staying that way - but I don't feel that my diet is as healthy as it should be. I eat a lot of faux meat and dairy products, which I know are not as healthy as whole, unrefined foods. Ideally, I'd follow something like the 80-10-10 diet... but right now I don't see that as being realistic. Going into college there's no way I'll have enough money to afford all that fruit, plus I'd be giving up a shit ton of things, which seems really difficult. Does anyone have any recommendations for vegan food choices that still taste good/not bland, and are also healthy and more unrefined? What about healthy deserts (if that's a thing)? Bonus points if it's cheap and still tastes sweet.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Beans are more versatile than you could possibly imagine, and, if you buy them dry, are stupid cheap. Black bean brownies? Your celiac friends will be stoked! Red bean dip? Hummous?

Plant a kale in your window. Kale is one of those magical you-probably-couldn't-kill-this-without-trying plants, and it's kinda pretty.

Jerusalem artichokes! They're full of iron! They were part of a ridiculous pyramid scheme that bankrupted tonnes of small farmers! They're generally cheap!

Ramen noodles + peanut butter + hot sauce = "Twochow"
Add a vegetable and you've gone a step further than Montreal's most famous $2 vegan treat.

Uh, I got more, but I should be sending work email.

[Skyhilist]

Are there any cheap ramen noodle-like things (or vegan ramen noodles) but that don't contain non-veg stuff in the flavoring packets like traditional ramen noodles? The "twochow" thing sounds pretty good and I'd also definitely like to try out the black bean brownies, so thanks!

[PhoenixAsh]

why would you want an 80 10 10 diet?

[Skyhilist]

why would you want an 80 10 10 diet?

The people who have committed to it as a long term choice seem to be really healthy in general. Also Dr. Graham seems to have some pretty good stuff documenting the healthiness of the diet. It's just not realistic for me though personally.

[bropasaran]

I'm a sort of a healthy and simple living nut, so my diet is a very simple vegetarian one. Basically I buy organic whole grain wheat flour and make chapatis/ tortillas on the frying pan using just flour and water (sometimes salt) and that's my staple, I eat from 3 or 4 to 6 or 7 of them a day, depending of the activity I have, do I exercise and do I also make some thik soup or just noil something. Besides the flatbreads I eat raw veggies like carrots, tomatoes, cucumbers, bell peppers, cabbage, radishes, leeks and similar. Once in a while, although sometimes every few days, or sometimes for days in a row, I eat a meal where I boil some type of beans, or soybeans, or lentils, potatoes, spinach, broccoli, etc, most often I boil rice, I love simple boiled rice with a little salt. When I want something sweet, I eat raw fruit- oranges, apples, grapes, strawberries, cherries, watermelons, muskmelons, etc. Also, as I said, I'm a vegetarian, so I sometimes drink milk and eat eggs, although in small quantities, like a litar of milk in two months, and an egg a month.

As for cheapness, just replacing meat and normal meals with whole wheat bread was a huge help for my budget, but I think I saved most money when I started really getting into healthy diet/ living and stopping with cigarretes and processed foods and drinks, first of all- juices, snacks and sweets.

[PhoenixAsh]

It is nutrient deficient. Plus it over stocks on carbs and requires a rigid exercise regimen to get rid of those. In the meantime the quantity of food you have to eat is so large it will stretch your stomach...so abandoning the diet will make you actually need to eat more. Blood counts will drop eventually and most users run the risk of becoming anemic. There are several accounts of people simply starting to binge eat because their bodies can't cope with the lack of nutrients. Everybody experiences regular days in which they have no energy at all.

It is also fucking expensive and time consuming.

Graham's book is also full of errors...which I will not cover here.

There is nothing wrong with a raw diet. I won't hack it. But there is nothing wrong with it. But the 811 diet is simply fucked up and has an insane fear of fat on the basis of a flawed reductionist interpretation of a singular study.

[PhoenixAsh]

O...yes...one other caution. And this is not joke. The 811 diet users report loss of libido. This is because of micro nutrient deficiency selenium, iodine and zinc etc which reduce testosterone.

Follow a raw paleo diet if you want.... But I should skip the 811 diet

[IWantToLearn]

This is because of macro nutrient deficiency selenium, iodine and zinc etc which reduce testosterone.

Those are micronutrients if im not mistaken, just saying.

[PhoenixAsh]

Those are micronutrients if im not mistaken, just saying.

you are not mistaken. good catch....it was early and I haven't slept yet.

[Skyhilist]

Follow a raw paleo diet if you want

Ok all criticisms of 811 aside (which I'll look into myself later), why would you think I'd adopt a raw paleo diet if I'm a vegan? Also I highly doubt that this would be any better.

[tallguy]

So I'm vegan and planning on staying that way - but I don't feel that my diet is as healthy as it should be. I eat a lot of faux meat and dairy products, which I know are not as healthy as whole, unrefined foods. Ideally, I'd follow something like the 80-10-10 diet... but right now I don't see that as being realistic. Going into college there's no way I'll have enough money to afford all that fruit, plus I'd be giving up a shit ton of things, which seems really difficult. Does anyone have any recommendations for vegan food choices that still taste good/not bland, and are also healthy and more unrefined? What about healthy deserts (if that's a thing)? Bonus points if it's cheap and still tastes sweet.I went out with an Indian woman many years ago when I was a very young man. She was completely vegetarian and the food she cooked was lovely. My weight and general level of fitness has never been as good as during that time. So, I guess looking towards some variant of Indian cuisine might be a start.

[BIXX]

I went out with an Indian woman many years ago when I was a very young man. She was completely vegetarian and the food she cooked was lovely. My weight and general level of fitness has never been as good as during that time. So, I guess looking towards some variant of Indian cuisine might be a start.


Middle eastern and Greek diets I have heard are great as well.

[blake 3:17]

Kale is meant for scrubbing bath tubs, not for eating.

@Skyhillist -- I eat faux meat to save money, but that's cuz I'm in Toronto & go to Chinese groceries... I lived off rice and lentils for a couple of years (plus eggs (oops)) and was OKish. It seems like most vegans don't get enough fat or calcium -- a bunch of friends are going to hell physically at present & us scoundrels who eat everything & smoke & exercise are in better shape.

[PhoenixAsh]

Ok all criticisms of 811 aside (which I'll look into myself later), why would you think I'd adopt a raw paleo diet if I'm a vegan? Also I highly doubt that this would be any better.

You specifically mentioned the 80 10 10 diet which is raw vegan.

Also...I didn't assume. But I have specific criticism for the 811 diet and not for raw vegan diets in general.

[Quail]

Beans, lentils, etc are nice and cheap but pretty versatile. Even if you get canned rather than dried, they're still way cheaper than meat but pulses are pretty nutritious. My protein mostly comes from beans and lentils with the odd bit of TVP or veg sausage, some nuts, tofu, etc.

[Art Vandelay]

So I'm just going to high jack this thread, cause I don't want to start my own. Does anyone have any tips for things they could eat to help gain weight, while still following a vegetarian diet? I've always struggled putting on weight and don't even necessarily have the best appetite usually (but I'm willing to work on that and eat more). Sick of being a twig.

[PhoenixAsh]

I am not entirely familiar with all the strands of vegetarianism...so for me it is just "no meat".

What would be helpful for any advice is:

size. current weight. bf%. age. activity level.

Basically...to gain weight you need to eat more calories. Roughly 3500 per pound. To gain a kilo in a week you need to eat ~7000 calories more than you normally do when you do not gain weight.

So first...you probably need to eat more.

To increase appetite you could either expand your stomach. Or you could eat more carbs...like pasta's. Increasing your stomach is relatively easy. Just eat lots and lost of salad.

Do note however....you either gain weight through additional protein mass (muscles) or additional fat.

So I suggest some kind of training routine. Which will also increase your appetite.

If eating itself is serious problem. You can drink whole milk. Currently I am drinking 2-3 liters a day. I won't gain much on that because I train 6-7 days a week. But for somebody on a normal training routine...you will definitely put on pounds.

If that doesn't work...you can consider protein or weight gain powder which you can drink with your milk.

[Quail]

Peanut butter?

Or, more helpfully, perhaps you could buy some stuff like nuts, seeds, etc., to snack on throughout the day? If you're not eating enough it can kind of help to have little snacks around to eat "mindlessly".

[Art Vandelay]

I am not entirely familiar with all the strands of vegetarianism...so for me it is just "no meat".

I don't think I'm familiar with the strands either, but yeah essentially I just don't eat meat.


What would be helpful for any advice is:

size. current weight. bf%. age. activity level.

Size: 6'. Weight: 155. Its been a long time since I did a bf%, but I would of been a 6 something; probably added some more since then, but I'd be single digit. Age:21. Activity level is low.


To increase appetite you could either expand your stomach. Or you could eat more carbs...like pasta's. Increasing your stomach is relatively easy. Just eat lots and lost of salad.

I definitely think my stomach has shrunk a bit. Various times I've went on road trips for political shit and then not eat cause I have no money have seen to that. I can think of 2 trips in particular (one was recently) where I came back and had lost some of my appetite. I'll work on that though.


So I suggest some kind of training routine. Which will also increase your appetite.

I've been putting together in my head, a light routine of cardio/abdominals for once the whether gets better here, but yeah its been years since I've worked out. Got to change that.


If eating itself is serious problem. You can drink whole milk. Currently I am drinking 2-3 liters a day. I won't gain much on that because I train 6-7 days a week. But for somebody on a normal training routine...you will definitely put on pounds.

Thanks for the tip. I definitely do struggle with eating for some reason. I normally probably only have 2 meals a day and when my mental health tanks, the first thing that seems to go is my appetite. Maybe I'll buy lots of milk next time I'm at the grocery store.


If that doesn't work...you can consider protein or weight gain powder which you can drink with your milk.

I'd kinda like to avoid that. If I can't gain weight then whatever, its not the worst problem to have in the world I guess.

[Art Vandelay]

Peanut butter?

That's a good idea, since its something I like.


Or, more helpfully, perhaps you could buy some stuff like nuts, seeds, etc., to snack on throughout the day? If you're not eating enough it can kind of help to have little snacks around to eat "mindlessly".

I have heard that eating multiple, smaller portioned meals, is a good idea. Plus I'm sure snacking would help to improve my appetite overall. If I started planning my days better, I could pack snacks for work I guess and that would probably help alot.

[PhoenixAsh]

Ok....to maintain your current situation you need between 2400 and 2500 calories based on the information you provided.

I will assume that you are currently not loosing weight or losing it in such small numbers that it is taking weeks before you notice it?


In order to gain weight....you need to get in more calories....and I suggest you will take a steady increase of 300 calories a day. Which would amount to 1 pound a week...to get used to eating more. In the course of the weeks you will increase this by adding slowly.

To give you an equivalent...that is 0.75 liter of whole milk extra a day in addition to what you are now eating....or eating one extra slice of whole bread with peanut butter a day...in addition to what you are eating now. You could do both. Which would gain you more.

Neither will cost you a lot of money....and neither will have a huge impact on your eating. So it won't force overeating.

There are two things I like to stress:

1). Even if you are not hungry or do not feel like it. Eat. Set an alarm to remind you to eat regularly. And if it helps prepare food in advance. (I had huge problems preparing dinner. I didn't feel like it. So I started to pick two days a a week in which I cooked a generous amount of pasta sauce filled with vegetables and fish or meat...or both...this took me maybe 40 minutes....for 3 days....the only thing I had to do per day was cook pasta, rice or noodles....which was maybe 5-8 minutes work.) <<-- don't get me wrong...I can definitely cook. I just do not feel like doing it for myself.

2). Mental health is improved by being well nourished.

[Skyhilist]

Sick of being a twig.

Hmmm maybe you could just take some of my weight or something?

[BIXX]

Shit yo, I got a good amount you could take too. In fact I think we should divide our weight amongst all of us!

[Art Vandelay]

Well that is very communistic of you two. I'll take about 15 lbs.

[BIXX]

Well that is very communistic of you two. I'll take about 15 lbs.


That's around what I've been planning on losing!

[Quail]

I have heard that eating multiple, smaller portioned meals, is a good idea. Plus I'm sure snacking would help to improve my appetite overall. If I started planning my days better, I could pack snacks for work I guess and that would probably help alot.
Most days I have 4 smaller meals instead of 3 big ones. It helped when I needed to gain weight because it was more manageable to me.

[bropasaran]

So I'm just going to high jack this thread, cause I don't want to start my own. Does anyone have any tips for things they could eat to help gain weight, while still following a vegetarian diet? I've always struggled putting on weight and don't even necessarily have the best appetite usually (but I'm willing to work on that and eat more). Sick of being a twig.
Putting on weight how? Do you want fat or muscle?

[PhoenixAsh]

you need a caloric surplus to gain muscle


also...weight gain (fat) is sometimes necessary for health or other reasons (such as pregnancy...wanting to become..., prep for surgery, recovery from...) or because it makes you feel better.

[Art Vandelay]

Putting on weight how? Do you want fat or muscle?

Well I don't really want to gain fat per say, but I suppose it wouldn't be the end of the world to gain a few pounds of fat. I'm literally skin and bones.

[bropasaran]

If you want to gain fat, you need either a lot of simple carbs, that is- sugar, which means sweets and processed drinks (which I wouldn't recommend); or you need saturated fats, which means eggs [yolks specifically have all the fat], milk products (like cream, yoghurt, cheese) and nuts (even though all of this is better then sugar, I wouldn' recommend it generally, but if you really are skin and bones, I recommend it to you).

If you want to gain muscle, besides proper exercise and rest, you need protein, which means whole grain cereals, beans, lentils, soybeans, milk and egg whites. That's basically what I eat for protein, but if you want protein and fat, you can go peanuts, walnuts, almonds, pistachios and other nuts, they're high on protein and high on fat.

I'm pretty bulked up and I use just few simple excercises at home, if you want to start with that, I can write about it.