How to stop viewing other people (especially women) as objects?

[Schumpeter]

Seriously I can't stop objectifying women, I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities. The same goes for strangers on the street, they are just moving mounds of flesh,
how is one to bond with a stranger?

I know its fucked up but I guess I need help in not objectifying women.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

I think for me one of the things that made me realised how messed up the way society conditions men to look at women was in my mid teens when we were given Margaret Atwood's A Handmaid's Tale to read and analyse - in doing so i inevitably found myself seeing parallels in the way women were treated in the state depicted in the novel and how i saw and heard a lot of people my age talking about women (i was more into video games at the time and this was right around the peak of the "make me a sandwich" meme thing goinfg on.) And that kind of began to worry me. My mum was an activist for women's rights at university in the seventies and eighties too, so talking to her and reading the stuff she had around also gave some kind of insight into essentially how wrong the way i consciously and unconsciously viewed women. More recently I met a few people who i've become very good friends with, all of whom are very passionate about civil rights and equality and so on, and talking to them has likewise been enlightening. I've kept reading about feminism and racism and other struggles in the meantime which likewise has been a learning experience, sometimes a very shocking one when it comes to facts and figures. I recently read a collection of Andrea Dworkin's essays and speeches which I thought was pretty good too.

It's not a thing that you can wipe from your head quickly, unfortunately - for most of us we're saturated with media that objectifies, demeans and/or patronises women pretty much as soon as we're able to process it and it takes a long time to rid yourself of those shackles. But good luck to you, I like to think that life is more rewarding when your kneejerk reaction to seeing a woman isn't thinking about how much you'd like to sleep with them.

[argeiphontes]

Since the OP is trying to start a fight... ;)

Schumpeter, women are the means for you to satisfy your sexual desires, and it is perfectly natural for you to see them this way. Just as it is natural for women to view you this way. However, they are not only a means to this end, and that's the key, IMO.

People are not only means to the satisfaction of another's sexual desires. They are individuals with their own natures, ideas, and goals, and have the same rights to exercise those aspects of themselves, and to be free of imposition upon them, as you do. Even if you're a sex-crazed maniac, you should still understand this dual nature of your sexual conquests and treat them accordingly.

Carry on.

[Sinister Intents]

Seriously I can't stop objectifying women, I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities. The same goes for strangers on the street, they are just moving mounds of flesh,
how is one to bond with a stranger?

I know its fucked up but I guess I need help in not objectifying women.

Perhaps you should realize women are people and not objects :P Honestly IMO it's not really hard to realize that we're all humans and deserved to be treated with love and respect and dignity. You should also read some Goldman, you can easily do a Google search of Emma Goldman Marxists, and follow the links on that page for further reading. Start researching any and all feminist literature you can find. Rousing Chorus answered this pretty well though, so I don't really know what I could add

edit: here is this post from a kind of similar thread: http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=610932&postcount=4

[adipocere]

Seriously I can't stop objectifying women, I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities. The same goes for strangers on the street, they are just moving mounds of flesh,
how is one to bond with a stranger?

I know its fucked up but I guess I need help in not objectifying women.
It's not like you have to to sob during sex or sweep strangers into a bear hug when you pass them on the street to be a caring person.

It sounds like you just aren't that emotionally attached to your pal and so long as strangers are just going through the motions of life, so are you. I think you're lonely.

[motion denied]

Did you meet this girl laughing your way to the bank?

[NGNM85]

Seriously I can't stop objectifying women, I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities. The same goes for strangers on the street, they are just moving mounds of flesh,
how is one to bond with a stranger?

I know its fucked up but I guess I need help in not objectifying women.

It isn't clear that you actually have a problem. According to most people, sexual activities are considerably more gratifying in the context of a healthy, caring relationship. That being said, many people also enjoy casual sexual encounters , or; `hookups´, and find these experiences totally gratifying. So, there's nothing inherently wrong with feeling sexual lust towards another adult, after all, who doesn't want to be seen as sexy? The important thing, however, and this is what determines whether or not you have a problem, is that you are honest, and respectful in your pursuits. You don't have to have a deep emotional attachment to every girl you have a one- nighter with, that's counterintuitive, for one thing, but you should always treat them with a minimum of respect, and decency, and be sensitive to the fact that your partner is a human being and in a position of great physical, and, likely, emotional vulnerability. Thus ends the Public Service Announcement.

[G4b3n]

Did you meet this girl laughing your way to the bank?

He just puts on his fedora and all the m'ladies can't keep their hands off of him, OP is in fact so smooth that he has never experienced the "friend zone" in his life.

[BIXX]

Seriously I can't stop objectifying women, I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities. The same goes for strangers on the street, they are just moving mounds of flesh,
how is one to bond with a stranger?

I know its fucked up but I guess I need help in not objectifying women.


First off, let me say that I respect that you want to change the fact that you objectify women.

I go through bouts I feel where it's worse than others, in regards to objectifying people. I think what a lot of people here are doing- recommending books, etc... Can help, but I think something better is to make a conscious attempt to behave more equally in your personal relationships- think about the feelings of your partners and friends, and try to allow them to have equal power in the relationship as you (preferably try make it a powerless relationship, meaning that both people are not trying to assert themselves over one another, but rather trying to express themselves to one another- this is nearly impossible in the context of the current world, but you should still try).

Over time you will start to objectify others less. It's ok to want to sleep with someone- hell, I wanna sleep with lots of people- but keep in mind that they are as intricate and complex as you, and deserve the same respect that you do.

[liberlict]

Don't give in to that "pleasure" man. Keep fighting it. You gotta treat attractiveness like Christians treat theft--- It's a sin. If you need an exorcism I know a guy who runs a reeducation camp for men who find aesthetic beauty in women. PM me.

[Marshal of the People]

I probably also need help in treating humans as people because I see all people as things which are basically "extensions of myself" and that is apparently bad. For example I don't care how people feel can't understand how people have different views or opinions.

[Marshal of the People]

Did you meet this girl laughing your way to the bank?What does that mean?

[PhoenixAsh]

Do you really want help or did you just want to let us know you had sex?

Because if it is the first then the answer is really simple. There is a neat little trick to not objectify people: Stop being selfish and stop seeing people as objects. This sounds like a "duhuh" moment...but it really is that simple.

[Slavic]

I probably also need help in treating humans as people because I see all people as things which are basically "extensions of myself" and that is apparently bad. For example I don't care how people feel can't understand how people have different views or opinions.

Not to be the bearer of bad news but it sounds like you have a type of sociopathic personality. Not to say that being a sociopath is inheritly wrong just usually frowned upon. It all comes down to how you handle yourself and your interactions with others.

[RedCornFlakes]

Go to your local library and read books or even watch documentaries on the web pertaining to sexuality and psychology.

[Comrade #138672]

Nice troll topic. You are getting better at this. What is your next topic going to be?

[Marshal of the People]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but it sounds like you have a type of sociopathic personality. Not to say that being a sociopath is inheritly wrong just usually frowned upon. It all comes down to how you handle yourself and your interactions with others.My psychiatrist says I am a psychopath and he is probably right. I do have a love for justice and fairness (why I am attracted to the far left) but I don't care or empathise with people which is not good.

[BIXX]

Your shrink is wrong. Also you're a real edgy kid.


Well, I've read somewhere (can't remember where) that 1 in 25 people are sociopaths, so while I doubt that MotP is one, statistically it isn't horridly unlikely.

[tallguy]

Seriously I can't stop objectifying women, I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities. The same goes for strangers on the street, they are just moving mounds of flesh,
how is one to bond with a stranger?

I know its fucked up but I guess I need help in not objectifying women.
Try growing the fuck up. The very fact you have come on here and spouted this shite off in the "look at me" way you have suggests an immature personality, to be honest.

[Red Economist]

Seriously I can't stop objectifying women, I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities. The same goes for strangers on the street, they are just moving mounds of flesh,
how is one to bond with a stranger?

I know its fucked up but I guess I need help in not objectifying women

I confess that I am envious that you even got as far as making out with girls. But I do have to sit back and recognize I've been fed a popular culture which views sexual conquest as a form of social status (at least for men). Doesn't stop me craving sex though...

To be honest, I think you're walking a fine line between thinking 'objectifying' women is bad and sexual attraction is bad. having Sex and wanting to have sex is perfectly healthy expression of a psychological instinct if you enjoy it; if your finding yourself getting anxious, uncomfortable, you need to take a step back and consider what you're doing and what the causes are.

Ideologically speaking, society has a strong bias to view sex as a purely 'physical' process driven by the 'biological' need to 'procreate' so sexual relations with fit in monogamous relationships. It is possible that you are denying yourself the ability to recognize the psychological aspect of attraction to another person, such as their personality, and therefore 'objectifying' women in the process. learn to enjoy having sex and think about whether you like the 'sex' or the person most and the answer will come naturally.


I probably also need help in treating humans as people because I see all people as things which are basically "extensions of myself" and that is apparently bad. For example I don't care how people feel can't understand how people have different views or opinions.
...
My psychiatrist says I am a psychopath and he is probably right. I do have a love for justice and fairness (why I am attracted to the far left) but I don't care or empathize with people which is not good. Psychology is more of an art than a science as it relies heavily on the psychological insight of the psychiatrist as to what constitutes 'healthy' behavior. You shouldn't be afraid to respectfully disagree with your therapist as the patient-therapist relationship is supposed to one based on equality derived from a healthy sense of self-respect by the patient and the capacity for healthy, mutually-satisfying relationships.

According to Erich Fromm (in [I]The sane society) psychology falls into two categories; the ones who describe mental illness in terms of social dysfunction and the ones who describe mental illness in terms of psychological distress. If your on the Far Left, it is worth considering whether what we are expected to do to function in society is in itself psychopathic and how far you, your environment and the people around you have brought you up to fulfill these functions.

It seems really implausible that you can experience a 'love' for justice and fairness and not care or empathize with other people. It is possible that your using the word 'love' in a different sense to the way I'd use it, but I'd recommend talking about the contradiction between the two with your psychiatrist.
If your psychiatrist turns round and gives you a really ignorant load of anti-communist bull, he/she may well be prejudiced against you as not many people can grasp why people become communists; it is a rather 'odd' combination of psychological factors at work [e.g. a selective love/empathy of the poor and hating the rich for making them poor, with the danger of missing out mitigating individual characteristics, both good and bad, on both sides behind the collective identity of class]. If they're better informed, it's less hard to dismiss. But basically you're admitting that it's a problem, and that suggests you can feel guilt- so empathy can't be that far behind. :confused:

Is it possible that you don't experience empathy to the degree of other people rather than it being a hard-fixed line between """normal""" and psychopathic behavior? And that probably does come with the territory of being in the Far Left as the disconnect between utopianism and stalinism is a hard gap to bridge.

[Marshal of the People]

Psychology is more of an art than a science as it relies heavily on the psychological insight of the psychiatrist as to what constitutes 'healthy' behavior. You shouldn't be afraid to respectfully disagree with your therapist as the patient-therapist relationship is supposed to one based on equality derived from a healthy sense of self-respect by the patient and the capacity for healthy, mutually-satisfying relationships.

According to Erich Fromm (in [I]The sane society) psychology falls into two categories; the ones who describe mental illness in terms of social dysfunction and the ones who describe mental illness in terms of psychological distress. If your on the Far Left, it is worth considering whether what we are expected to do to function in society is in itself psychopathic and how far you, your environment and the people around you have brought you up to fulfill these functions.

It seems really implausible that you can experience a 'love' for justice and fairness and not care or empathize with other people. It is possible that your using the word 'love' in a different sense to the way I'd use it, but I'd recommend talking about the contradiction between the two with your psychiatrist.
If your psychiatrist turns round and gives you a really ignorant load of anti-communist bull, he/she may well be prejudiced against you as not many people can grasp why people become communists; it is a rather 'odd' combination of psychological factors at work [e.g. a selective love/empathy of the poor and hating the rich for making them poor, with the danger of missing out mitigating individual characteristics, both good and bad, on both sides behind the collective identity of class]. If they're better informed, it's less hard to dismiss. But basically you're admitting that it's a problem, and that suggests you can feel guilt- so empathy can't be that far behind. :confused:

Is it possible that you don't experience empathy to the degree of other people rather than it being a hard-fixed line between """normal""" and psychopathic behavior? And that probably does come with the territory of being in the Far Left as the disconnect between utopianism and stalinism is a hard gap to bridge.Neither of my psychiatrists know I am a communist (at least I don't think they do). To clear up on the Justice and fairness thing I do have a love for those things but I do seem to not care about peoples feelings or emotions at all plus I have never experienced love (not even for my parents) ever. Plus then there is the thing about wanting to kill people because they said or did something I didn't like (like for example my mother made me wait in the line at the airport when we could easily have bypassed it) which happens regularly and is apparently not good. Though however I do hate it when something unfair happens to someone (unless it is a person I don't like) because it is illogical and stupid.

But you are right psychiatrists can be wrong for example someone was once diagnosed with ADHD and several years later it turned out they didn't have it (they could have just learnt to cope with it but we'll give the benefit of the doubt).

[Art Vandelay]

We all internalize negative aspects of hetero-patriarchy, I think the key is to be honest with yourself (as well as have people in your life who will be honest with you) and work on whatever issues you may have. We're all messed up in our own ways, the key is to not blow our own issues out of proportion, but instead to work on them. If the op is serious, then do whatever you can do, to not turn this into a moralistic issue, as revleft is so keen to consistently do, and instead focus your energies on changing whatever problematic characteristics you have.

[Red Economist]

[Ignore this space; had second thoughts on posting it].

[liberlict]

Really women should shave their heads and wear camo shorts to avert the male gaze.

[argeiphontes]

Really women should shave their heads and wear camo shorts to avert the male gaze.

Camo is kind of hot, actually. Make it plaid or khaki.

[Thirsty Crow]

Really women should shave their heads and wear camo shorts to avert the male gaze.
Nothing wrong with a gaze that doesn't make one feel uncomfortable and like a piece of meat. I don't get how people seem to have such a hard time understanding that one can enjoy other people's attractiveness and not be a creep.

[liberlict]

Nothing wrong with a gaze that doesn't make one feel uncomfortable and like a piece of meat. I don't get how people seem to have such a hard time understanding that one can enjoy other people's attractiveness and not be a creep.

Creeps are creeps. Just because some seedy dude likes to stand under escalators and look up hot girls' skirts doesn't mean that the rest of us need to repress our thoughts. Most of us normal hetro males know how to admire a beautiful women without salivating at the mouth and doing the shocker.

[Thanatos]

I agree that no one should be objectified ..... but .......

How about seeing each other as sexual beings? Is that also wrong? Evolution has made sure that we nurture the desire to survive and reproduce ....... so wouldn't there always be a subconscious urge to see people as sexual beings and only then as worker, friend, employer, etc.?

My point is, seeing people as objects is a social phenomenon (and must be corrected), whereas seeing people as sexual beings is more biological in nature. It could be some sort of innate urge that millions of years of evolution has planted in us.

[liberlict]

I agree that no one should be objectified ..... but .......

How about seeing each other as sexual beings? Is that also wrong?

No, it would be moronic and anti-life, in fact. Too observe from a distance a women or man you've never met before as a 'piece of meat' is in reality the only possible way to see them.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

I think this enough of a reason for Schumpeter to get banned actually... He basically mocked feminism for positing that under patriarchy women are objectified. In other words, he denied the continuing existence of one of the most degrading and harmful parts of sexism against women.

Not that I want you to get banned Sumpeter, I wouldn't want you to get banned, you've given us some great debates and good laughs.

[tallguy]

I think this enough of a reason for Schumpeter to get banned actually... He basically mocked feminism for positing that under patriarchy women are objectified. In other words, he denied the continuing existence of one of the most degrading and harmful parts of sexism against women.

Not that I want you to get banned Sumpeter, I wouldn't want you to get banned, you've given us some great debates and good laughs.
Well shut up with the banning bollocks then,.

FFS. This place is like a religious cult. Anyone steps even slightly off-message and all I hear is "burn the witch!".

[#FF0000]

Creeps are creeps. Just because some seedy dude likes to stand under escalators and look up hot girls' skirts doesn't mean that the rest of us need to repress our thoughts. Most of us normal hetro males know how to admire a beautiful women without salivating at the mouth and doing the shocker.

yes that is what people have been saying the whole thread.


FFS. This place is like a religious cult. Anyone steps even slightly off-message and all I hear is "burn the witch!".

people are extremely annoying with the "gubgubgubgubg ban/restrict pls" but somehow you whining about a thing is even more annoying even when I agree with you. huh.

anyway to the OP i think you might actually need to seek real life professional help if that's really how you're feeling. not even a snide post or anything.

[liberlict]

I think it was parody / satire.

Anyway I do genuinely feel for women who can't escape being hit on when they are out and about. I know that a lot of girls "dress down" when they go out just so they don't have to deal with being hit on.

[tallguy]

yes that is what people have been saying the whole thread.



people are extremely annoying with the "gubgubgubgubg ban/restrict pls" but somehow you whining about a thing is even more annoying even when I agree with you. huh.

anyway to the OP i think you might actually need to seek real life professional help if that's really how you're feeling. not even a snide post or anything.I would have preferred if you had placed my quoted post in context as you have made it appear it was a reply to the other post your quoted, which it was not. I don't think you did that intentionally, however. But, please try to make sure my posts are not misinterpreted by other. Thanks.

Edit to add:

Actually, scratch the above. Your quote was immediately after my post, and so folks would have to be pretty daft not to spot it in context anyway.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

Well shut up with the banning bollocks then,.

FFS. This place is like a religious cult. Anyone steps even slightly off-message and all I hear is "burn the witch!".

Calm down, I didn't actually flag his post or anything. I was just warning him that you can't just say anything you want. If I had my way, no one would get banned for anything...

[Schumpeter]

Calm down, I didn't actually flag his post or anything. I was just warning him that you can't just say anything you want. If I had my way, no one would get banned for anything...

Most people here probably objectify men or women its just that are not open about speaking about it. I'm bringing the issue out into the open and taking a slightly different stance by speaking from the point of view of someone who has noticed the way in which I personally have objectified others.

I bet that you yourself have objectified a male or female at some point in your life too, if you want to get serious about tackling the issue you've got to allow people to speak about it instead of calling for their heads for admitting that they live in a society that perpetuates this.

This is the reality for many men and perhaps some women, shirking from it will not address it.

[Schumpeter]

Did you meet this girl laughing your way to the bank?

Are you referring to a post I've made in the past? :laugh:

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

Most people here probably objectify men or women its just that are not open about speaking about it. I'm bringing the issue out into the open and taking a slightly different stance by speaking from the point of view of someone who has noticed the way in which I personally have objectified others.

I bet that you yourself have objectified a male or female at some point in your life too, if you want to get serious about tackling the issue you've got to allow people to speak about it instead of calling for their heads for admitting that they live in a society that perpetuates this.

This is the reality for many men and perhaps some women, shirking from it will not address it.

Errr, I think you're turning this on its head. You seemed like you were mocking the matter but now you're gonna get all serious about it.

Your trolling in certain threads has simply made you sceptical of your sincerity.

It was the apparent irony in your post that I was calling you out on. If you are indeed aware of the fact that discrimination persists, I applaud that. I'm also pretty sure that you already know that this forum is full of feminists who are constantly saying that our society causes sexism to persist in a perpetual loop. It's a little demagogic for you to say that I'm the person denying sexism and objectification.

I also think that many of the comrades on this forum have indeed freed themselves of all the sexist ideas society has planted in their minds. You'd be hardpressed to find any male or female chauvinism on here.

[Schumpeter]

Errr, I think you're turning this on its head. You seemed like you were mocking the matter but now you're gonna get all serious about it.

Your trolling in certain threads has simply made you sceptical of your sincerity.

It was the apparent irony in your post that I was calling you out on. If you are indeed aware of the fact that discrimination persists, I applaud that. I'm also pretty sure that you already know that this forum is full of feminists who are constantly saying that our society causes sexism to persist in a perpetual loop. It's a little demagogic for you to say that I'm the person denying sexism and objectification.

I also think that many of the comrades on this forum have indeed freed themselves of all the sexist ideas society has planted in their minds. You'd be hardpressed to find any male or female chauvinism on here.

I wasn't mocking the matter, it seems regarding your trolling comments that you are merely attempting to launch a personal vendetta against me and are seeing my posts through the prism of personal disdain towards myself.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

I wasn't mocking the matter, it seems regarding your trolling comments that you are merely attempting to launch a personal vendetta against me and are seeing my posts through the prism of personal disdain towards myself.

Not the case. As i said earlier, I don't want to see you banned at all. Even if you had been serious, I would still not have wanted that.

Just go back and read your opening post and consider that you have indeed been perceived as trolling by some members in the past. Put two and two together and it shouldn't be too hard to understand that some people thought you weren't being serious.

I don't feel any disdain for you either. I think you mean well.

[Thirsty Crow]

Creeps are creeps. Just because some seedy dude likes to stand under escalators and look up hot girls' skirts doesn't mean that the rest of us need to repress our thoughts. Most of us normal hetro males know how to admire a beautiful women without salivating at the mouth and doing the shocker.
Who are you addressing this to exactly? At the shadow left wing cabal that would have men repress any semblance of a sexual thought and establish world matriarchy?


No, it would be moronic and anti-life, in fact. Too observe from a distance a women or man you've never met before as a 'piece of meat' is in reality the only possible way to see them.
Actually, it's not. But that was my fault as I didn't explain the difference I have in mind between actually looking at someone and enjoying their attractiveness and treating people like pieces of meat. For one thing, in the latter case, I'd think it's obvious that the person doesn't care at all how their behavior affects the one that is being "objectified" (incessant stares, lewd gestures, and other stuff that invariably makes people really uncomfortable), and especially in case of casual sexual encounters when this kind of behavior is very often accompanied by deceit and manipulation - the latter being the problem, as others have already stated, and not the preferred form of such encounters as such.

[Lily Briscoe]

I was making out with this girls I was dating today on my bed and I just forgot that she is human being but instead the pleasure merely consumes and that is all she is a source of pleasure (happens a lot like when im out her -or whoever else im with) they become an accessory also in other.. intimate activities.
I'm not sure if you're looking for like 'political' solutions to this (e.g. "read x, y, and z feminist literature"), but I really don't think it's that type of problem... IMO, #FF0000 gave you the best advice you're gonna get on this:


anyway to the OP i think you might actually need to seek real life professional help if that's really how you're feeling. not even a snide post or anything.