Plato & Socrates 'fathers' of western philosophy?

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...057?v=glance&s= (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0865433623/qid=1075046692/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2160391-3080057?v=glance&s=)

I've heard this before, I studied this topic before as well. What are your opinions?

Should we really credit Plato and Socrates for being the true fathers of philosophy?

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I don't think it matters, I blame Socrates anyway for our sending culture down the Apollian line and as for reason grrr ;)

[Trissy]

Well Whitehead did call the history of philosophy a footnote to Plato. There were many Greek presocratic philosophers but I suppose Plato and Socrates mark the start of traditional Western philosophy.

I&#39;m caught in between two minds with Plato because he had many interesting ideas (&#39;The Symposium&#39; being my favourite book of his as it has many ideas on the nature of love) but some his thoughts have been incorporated by the Catholic church (such as an immortal soul and a transcendental realm) <_<


Hmm...maybe Nietzsche summed him up best when he said he was a bore

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

He is of course still relevant, reading the Gorgias at the moment which shows how the power of language can be used to give a false sense of democracy.

Oh and The Symposium has nothing on The Republic. Thrasymachus getting his as kicked by good ol&#39; Socrates.

We can hardly hold the medieval incorporation of Platonic ideas into Chritianity against Plato.

By the way the Egyptians were the first to fall for religion, the Greeks the first to fall for reason.

[Monty Cantsin]

"Hmm...maybe Nietzsche summed him up best when he said he was a bore"

ill have to agree with nietzsche on this one. granted plato had some good ideas. i&#39;ve read the The Republic but i dont think i could do anymore.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Try the Gorgias, it is quite interesting especially in its questioning of democracy.

[monkeydust]

I always found that quote about all after Plato being a footnote a bit dodgy.

The way I see Plato isn&#39;t as an incredible genius himself, but rather as the culmination and outcome of many established Greek philosophical ideas and concepts. For example, mush of what is &#39;Plato&#39; is actually thought to have been ideas of Socrates, only he didn&#39;t write it down.

Consequently &#39;Plato&#39; himself doesn&#39;t mark the start of Western philosophy, but Plato is the first real mark we have of all that had begunup to that point.

[STI]

Well, I&#39;d say that Socrates was the father of much of philosophy. Ethics, for example, was a creation of Socrates. Some presocratics, Xenophanes, for example, philosophized outside the realm of &#39;what things are made of&#39;, but, for the most part, Socrates started much of what we call &#39;Philosophy&#39; today.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I would say that those two were very influential, and still relevant. I would hower say that the pupil line must be traced to Aristotle and Alexander the great, it was not until this time that the Stoics and Cybics etc came into existance. I don&#39;t find the works boring, I think that they are interesting and thought provoking even today.