Opinion on radical environmentalist groups

[RedScorpion97]

Hey guys, basically my first post here. So, what are your opinions about those radical environmentalist groups (like the Animal Liberation Front or Earth Liberation Front)? Are their actions justified or are they taking things way too far? And please explain why/ why not.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

My loathing for those hippies is unfathomable and limitless. Go blow up some more mobile phone towers, mighty good.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

ALF/ELF are pretty alright. Though I don't think animal liberation or earth liberation in general should be defined by either group.

[tallguy]

I might be broadly termed an Earth Firster. That is to say, at the macro level, I do not fundamentally differentiate between humans and the rest of the biosphere of which we are but a part. Though, obviously, at the micro level, I do differentiate as I am a human and I love my own species. To preferentially favour the interests of one species over all others is akin to favouring the liver over the heart of a single organism. It's just bloody stupid. It's why we are currently at the precipice of environmental collapse around the world.

On a side note, I tend to find many animal liberationists really fucking irritating. Mainly because of the underlying anthropomorphising of animals inherent in much of their activities. Only humans have rights, because only humans are capable of being responsible for their actions. Rights and responsibilities cannot exist without each other. They are two sides of the same coin. Like it or not, although we are fundamentally a part of nature, we humans also have the power to exist, at least partially, outside of it. To that extent, we have a moral as well as practical duty to steward the rest of nature and not allow ourselves to destroy it with our own hubris. If we do destroy it, we ultimately destroy ourselves in the process.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Back in the late '80s, I was an eco anarchist supporter of Earth First! I think radical environmentalism is a necessity, but this radical environmentalism needs to be part of the class struggle, and part of a larger mass movement to abolish capitalism.

[tallguy]

Back in the late '80s, I was an eco anarchist supporter of Earth First! I think radical environmentalism is a necessity, but this radical environmentalism needs to be part of the class struggle, and part of a larger mass movement to abolish capitalism.Completely agree. Capitalism is not just the enemy of humans, it is the enemy of all life on earth.

[Bala Perdida]

I saw a documentary on ELF that mentioned their burning of a saw mill. I thought the property damage punishment of 2 life sentences was ridiculous, they didn't even kill anyone. However, I do find the hippies associated with the movement really annoying.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think maybe some of the "hippie" comments are related to a perception of disconnect between radical environmentalism and working class communities..? Maybe not. But that would be my basic criticism. Individual activists might be able to take a certain amount of action themselves, they might even have some success, but isolated from a social force capable of actually altering the way human societies relate to the environment it's sort of like putting your finger in a crack in a dam.

There are some anarchists and other radicals involved in anti-refinery work in the East Bay and I think that's a better intitial first step because it links international issues, engergy use, refinery workers on the basis of safety violations and working conditions, and can involve the immediate local working class community who suffer higher than normal cancer rates because of the refineries. So I think that type of thing would be the best way to begin trying to create radical environmental movements that don't relate to an abstract "nature" but put environmentalism in the context of how it's really a class struggle over the way our society relates to the natural world.

[Illegalitarian]

I think that animals should definitely be treated far better than they are now, and indeed should be freed from the brutal system of factory farming and shouldn't have to live with the threat of having their homes destroyed or being hunted to extinction.

I think ALF takes it too far with its "vegan or bust" position, not realizing that meat is a staple diet of many people who would die without it around the world, also ignoring the vast improvements of life gained by vivisection, but I agree with the sentiment of an armed front to protect animals from unnecessary harm.


I respect ELF much, much more than ALF, and highly admire their organizational methods and effectiveness here and there, not to mention their continued militancy that the left could really learn from. It's important to understand the intersectionality at play, however. That is to say, the destruction of class society directly coincides with saving countless non-human lives and environments for senseless destruction in the name of capital.

Environmental and Animal Liberation is important, but these things cannot be effectively realized until our liberation from the chains of capital come to fruition.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

Animal rights aren't as great of an issue to me as they seem to be to these groups. Not to say that animals shouldn't be treated well but I think human rights definitely precede human rights. In other words, if a medicine required to cure diseases that kill people need to be tested on animals, I think it's simply immoral not to. Testing cosmetics or other things on them that are essentially trivialities is completely unnacceptable however (maybe cosmetics is a bad example as I'm fairly sure we wouldn't need to produce as many types under socialism).

I do however support actions that actually protest against practices that are not sustainable and harm the planet's environment. We need to do this but it needs to be for humanitarian reasons, it shouldn't be out of some blind, romantic idealism. Indeed, the struggle for respect for the environment needs to be coupled with class struggle.

In other words, we need to strive for a socialism that respects the environment because it's in everyon's interest.

[tallguy]

I think that animals should definitely be treated far better than they are now, and indeed should be freed from the brutal system of factory farming and shouldn't have to live with the threat of having their homes destroyed or being hunted to extinction.

I think ALF takes it too far with its "vegan or bust" position, not realizing that meat is a staple diet of many people who would die without it around the world, also ignoring the vast improvements of life gained by vivisection, but I agree with the sentiment of an armed front to protect animals from unnecessary harm.


I respect ELF much, much more than ALF, and highly admire their organizational methods and effectiveness here and there, not to mention their continued militancy that the left could really learn from. It's important to understand the intersectionality at play, however. That is to say, the destruction of class society directly coincides with saving countless non-human lives and environments for senseless destruction in the name of capital.

Environmental and Animal Liberation is important, but these things cannot be effectively realized until our liberation from the chains of capital come to fruition.I was with you right up to the last sentence. As much as I would like to agree that human freedoms have to be gained first, there is simply not the time. Our global ecosystem is collapsing around us right now. Both battles have to be aligned have to be won simultaneously. Without a functioning eco-system, on which ALL life depends, human affairs are not going to be worth a shit anyway.

[Skyhilist]

Radical environmental movements like Earth First! do a lot of great things in my opinion - environmental crises are some of the biggest problems currently facing the earth. What better way to address them when capitalist bureaucrats wont listen than through direct action to prevent environmental destruction while simultaneously making it known that capitalism is the root of these problems and fighting that as well?

People involved in movements like Earth First! in my experience aren't single issue activists and are usually pretty intersectional. However, if your passion is the environment, then there's no reason that you can't be most involved with environmental activism, so long as you recognize the intersectionality of environmental exploitation, capitalism, sexism, etc. (which most radical environmentalists do) and don't turn into a "single issue activist". There's really nothing "hippy" about that, and most "hippies" generally would only be satisfied with pacifism, unlike most radical environmentalists. So you know, it'd be nice if people would not haphazardly try to label such movements without actually understanding them and their broader contexts (as is evident here).

[consuming negativity]

I don't really think the environment itself is worth preserving because of inherent value, but rather because of how useful it is to us (see: we would die if we screwed it up bad enough). I'm also a "speciesist" in that I don't see anything particularly bad about eating meat in and of itself. The problem lies in the way that we get our meat, for me. Still, I'm not against the idea of taking up arms in defense of the environment or of animals, and I think that animals are due a fuckton more respect than they currently get. Including human animals.