Russia about to move Lenin out of his mausoleum

[RedCornFlakes]

Russian MPs and human rights officials are again calling for the removal of Lenin's body from the center of Moscow, suggesting he is buried in a memorial cemetery outside the city limits, RT reports.
Flamboyant leader of the populist nationalist party LDPR, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, told reporters the body of the Bolshevik leader should be put to rest without delay. "We should bury him immediately. And we should write in new history textbooks that all five revolutions we had were coups d'état, in all cases the regime was changed forcibly, with the use of weapons and loss of human life," the ITAR-TASS news agency quoted the politician as saying on Tuesday.
Zhirinovsky added that the bodies from the mausoleum, the Red Square graves and inside the Kremlin wall should be taken to a relatively new memorial cemetery in the suburban town of Mytishchi. "Everyone would fit in there and there is enough space for all 50 years ahead," the LDPR leader added affectionately.
Russia's Human Rights ombudsman, Vladimir Lukin, said he expected the controversy over Lenin's burial to end in the foreseeable future. "The Red Square is not a proper place for a cemetery. The decision on this issue will be made sooner or later, and this will lead to a healthier situation in the country," he stated.
Копирано от standartnews.com
rt.com/politics/lenin-body-mausoleum-moscow-963

This is depressing, but at the same time good. Communism is opposed to hierarchies and thus against personality cults, it has to be this way.

[tachosomoza]

They've talked about doing this before but have never done it. I don't see how this time around is any different.

[motion denied]

About time I guess, eh.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I use to support the idea of using Lenin's body for artwork ala Sander Cohen or putting him in a crypt however with current contexts considering, I think I support the idea of him being permanently displayed. Fuck them, and I can also take solace in the fact that, that's tots not what he wanted. His body would become an abstract ghastly symbol of anti-nationalism. Which having a corpse being a poster child is pretty cool. Bonus points for being against lifeists.

http://www.funatiq.com/images/lenin-corpse.jpg

Red Square 4evA! Not one inch!

[Geiseric]

He's moving the body for the wrong reasons it seems. What did he mean by "all five revolutions" though? I mean the personality cult towards stalin is more to be afraid of in contemporary times than the cult around Lenin since stalin was an ethnic chauvinist a la Putin whereas Lenin was an earnest principled revolutionary.

[motion denied]

It should also mean that the Simpsons were wrong and he's not coming for zombie revolution.

[Per Levy]

just bury the body next to his wife and be done with it. this whole displaying lenins corpse was pretty damn sick right from the start anyway.

but interesting to see that human rights activits concern themselfs with a dead body, there are none human rights issues in russia i guess...

[RedCornFlakes]

>Mfw all the people viewing this:laugh:

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

just bury the body next to his wife and be done with it. this whole displaying lenins corpse was pretty damn sick right from the start anyway.

A nationalist would say this.


but interesting to see that human rights activits concern themselfs with a dead body, there are none human rights issues in russia i guess...

Some people are more equal than others.

[Per Levy]

>Mfw all the people viewing this:laugh:

ah sickle, you're still a boring troll, no class, no fun, no nothing, what will be your next sock account name, though?

[motion denied]

>Mfw all the people viewing this:laugh:

Seriously, BolshevikSickle, you're a twerp.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

"We should bury him immediately. And we should write in new history textbooks that all five revolutions we had were coups d'état, in all cases the regime was changed forcibly, with the use of weapons and loss of human life,"

Lolwut

What exactly does this guy think revolution entails :laugh:? Sure it was violent, though if the reactionary elements in 1917 Russia had been a little less eager to cling to their property and privileges, that wouldn't have been necessary.:glare:

[Per Levy]

A nationalist would say this.

come again?

[PhoenixAsh]

Who the hell cares?

Arguments are disingenuous but the outcome would be welcome.

[Bostana]

http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/meh.ro7316.jpg

[Brutus]

This is one of them things that crops up once every few years. Frankly, I couldn't care less.

[Igor]

its such a grotesque and bizarre thing id love to see it at least once tho

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I hope they don't take the body out before I go on my holy pilgrimage.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

its such a grotesque and bizarre thing id love to see it at least once tho

It's like that in person too. I found it surreal.

[reb]

What point does the husk of Lenin's embalmed corpse serve communism?

[RedCornFlakes]

What point does the husk of Lenin's embalmed corpse serve communism?
What point does the Kaaba serve Islam?
What point does the Vatican serve Christianity?
What point does Wall Street serve Capitalism?

It's simple mate, tradition.

[motion denied]

What point does the Kaaba serve Islam?
What point does the Vatican serve Christianity?
What point does Wall Street serve Capitalism?

It's simple mate, tradition.

holy shit you're being too obvious hahaha

[Os Cangaceiros]

Lenin's mummy is the perfect symbolic metaphor for the state of his followers as a movement. And most far-left movements in most places, for that matter

[Slavic]

Lenin's mummy is the perfect symbolic metaphor for the state of his followers as a movement. And most far-left movements in most places, for that matter

Stuck in the 20th century?

[tachosomoza]

Stuck in the 20th century?

Dead, dried out, stiff, out of touch, etc.

[o well this is ok I guess]

aight so we got 1905, 1917 february and october, anyone know the last two?

[RedAnarchist]

The sooner they end this personality cult exhibition and bury him as he wished, the better.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Hrm. It seems like an unfortunate piece of history to do away with, especially in the context of Putin's Russia. In fact, I'd say I probably wouldn't think it was particularly interesting outside the context of Russia's reinvention as fascist power . . . but, y'know, when fascists start purging evidence of history, it maybe begins to take on a different significance.

Of course, I'm not in Russia, have never been to Russia, and very likely don't understand the dynamics at play.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Hrm. It seems like an unfortunate piece of history to do away with, especially in the context of Putin's Russia. In fact, I'd say I probably wouldn't think it was particularly interesting outside the context of Russia's reinvention as fascist power . . . but, y'know, when fascists start purging evidence of history, it maybe begins to take on a different significance.

Of course, I'm not in Russia, have never been to Russia, and very likely don't understand the dynamics at play.

I was alluding to this sort of thing. Context is important and I feel all "poor stinky Lenin, let him be buried," responses should be swept under the rug. This is more than the bag of wax and bone in question. This is definitely not just a group of "human rights activists," wanting to do something nice and respect his final wishes due their big old bleeding hearts. This is nationalists trying to tear down symbols of progression in the RFs; which arguably, whether you support or are critical of Lenin, that's essentially what his memory has become.

[Sinister Intents]

I actually wanna see the crypt. Seems really cool, kinda glad they froze him solid and preserved him. Fascinates me and I must see it once in my life :) I should take a bunch of pictures of this creepy display.... Oh and hi BolSickle, welcome back, perhaps you'll be allowed to stay sometime.

[Dialectical Wizard]

Taking away his corpse would be truly blasphemous. We must organize a petition to stop this vandalizing madness. Our great leader comrade Lenin deserves more honour than this!

[Comrade Jacob]

I'm surprised this hasn't happened decades before. No, Lenin's body doesn't advance communism, some would argue it hinders it but I see this as a little sad but that's just me being sentimental.
If burial is what he wanted then he should get it, I guess.

[PhoenixAsh]

I saw it back in '94.

It isn't anything special or awe inspiring. It is like a wax figure ...only in a darkened room and you have to continue moving around it and can't stand still...and you can't get close to it.

The whole thing is stupid if you ask me.

The mausoleum itself is a nice building btw.

[Sinister Intents]

I saw it back in '94.

It isn't anything special or awe inspiring. It is like a wax figure ...only in a darkened room and you have to continue moving around it and can't stand still...and you can't get close to it.

The whole thing is stupid if you ask me.

The mausoleum itself is a nice building btw.

Ahhhh :/ I was hoping it would have been a fun experience, I hope a bunch of anarchists steal it and bury him somewhere and give him a very proper burial. Perhaps cremate Lenin and put his ashes out to sea

[RedAnarchist]

Ahhhh :/ I was hoping it would have been a fun experience, I hope a bunch of anarchists steal it and bury him somewhere and give him a very proper burial. Perhaps cremate Lenin and put his ashes out to sea

He did name himself after a river, maybe burial at sea would suit him.

[piet11111]

I think they want to bury the memory of the bolsheviks for once and for all.
Having lenin around must be very unsettling for the russian bourgeois as if he really could jump out of that glass case ala that simpsons bit.

And just for that i would oppose having him buried right now because its not up to the bourgeois but to the people when lenin gets to be buried next to his wife.

[reb]

What point does the Kaaba serve Islam?
What point does the Vatican serve Christianity?
What point does Wall Street serve Capitalism?

It's simple mate, tradition.

I'm not your mate.

And I can't quote certain posts for some reason.


I was alluding to this sort of thing. Context is important and I feel all "poor stinky Lenin, let him be buried," responses should be swept under the rug. This is more than the bag of wax and bone in question. This is definitely not just a group of "human rights activists," wanting to do something nice and respect his final wishes due their big old bleeding hearts. This is nationalists trying to tear down symbols of progression in the RFs; which arguably, whether you support or are critical of Lenin, that's essentially what his memory has become.

Again, so what? What has Lenin's body got to do with communism? Do you think that if they bury it then the antagonisms between labor and capital would cease? If you actually read the article attached no one is saying that they should bury him just because that is what Lenin wanted. Could you maybe stop with this fetishizng of inanimate objects?


I use to support the idea of using Lenin's body for artwork ala Sander Cohen or putting him in a crypt however with current contexts considering, I think I support the idea of him being permanently displayed. Fuck them, and I can also take solace in the fact that, that's tots not what he wanted. His body would become an abstract ghastly symbol of anti-nationalism. Which having a corpse being a poster child is pretty cool. Bonus points for being against lifeists.

In opposition to what? His body being used a festishistic object to legimate and support soviet nationalism?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Kalashnikov was the first person to be buried in the Federal Military Memorial Cemetery. The place looks spectacular, too. (http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/00/70/13/77_big.jpg)

I would argue that the only thing missing is a parade square. If Russian politicians think that the Necropolis isn't a fit with the old Beautiful Square, then Victory Day parades shouldn't be held there and should be held instead in full sight of the new cemetery. They can't have their cake and eat it too. Also, the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier inside the Kremlin should be moved.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Again, so what?

Here we go.


What has Lenin's body got to do with communism?

What does anything have to do with anything really?


Do you think that if they bury it then the antagonisms between labor and capital would cease?

No but do you think economic determinist/reductionist sentiments are going to get anywhere and or provide a clear understanding of our material reality? Nyet.


If you actually read the article attached no one is saying that they should bury him just because that is what Lenin wanted.

Perhaps not (even though I never made this claim), I wouldn't know because I didn't really properly read the article and this based upon what already know. Moving forward, the article stated the push is by the LDPR (look em up) which is basically all you need to know. But for shits and giggles lets go a little deeper. It also said the removal is being buttressed of claims that Lenin was a dictator who slaughtered millions of peeps. That is the basis of their contention with the mummy's current local. Why you lot want to side with the fucking LDPR and associated band of idiots, idk.


Could you maybe stop with this fetishizng of inanimate objects?

Please elaborate further on how preserved human remains are equivalant to chairs and washing machines. I'm terribly curious.


In opposition to what? His body being used a festishistic object to legimate and support soviet nationalism?

Pretty sure nationalists are the ones wanting to move his body and I believe I've been explicitly clear as to why I feel he should forever remain in Red Square and bollocks to the LDPR and those who want him moved.

[PhoenixAsh]

Here is what we are going to do.

We will elect a special unit from among the members here. We will go to Moscow on the 22nd of October. We will assemble behind the Basilisk at midnight. Then we will sneak into the mausoleum. There...we will steal the body of Lenin. Stealth is of vital importance.

When we have his body...we will wait...for three days. No more, no less. During which time we will replace Lenin's skeletal structure with a remote controlled robotic skeleton and microphone...which we can operate from a safe distance. We will then dress Lenin in white robes and install some sort of fiber optic Halo on his head.

Then....on the 25th of October. We will lower Lenin down into the Duma. Lenin will then give a speech on the necessity of revolution. Then...we detonate some explosives we also have installed in his stomach cavity and basically wipe out every shred of evidence of what we did.

I have done some extensive research. What we need is:

1) Somebody with brains...or...failing that...somebody American who can barely speak English.
2) Somebody with brawn and a heavy machine gun expert
3). explosives expert
4). somebody who knows how to get stuff
5). Comical relieve person
6). Person from an ethnic "minority" group
7). the one who betrays everything but last minute regrows his conscious and saves the day before he dies.

This is how Hollywood does it...and it can't fucking fail. We are even up against Russians....and those guys always lose.

[motion denied]

thank you for this, PhoenixAsh

[Thirsty Crow]

I don't buy the story about nationalists tearing down any "progressive" symbols whatsoever; I don't think that mummified corpses are appropriate for this either, as well as any iconic individual (though, stories about what people might consider heartening and uplifting, involving concrete individuals, are another matter; consider Ikarus Schneider and that Italian guy organizing with the communist left who escaped prison and then sent a mocking letter to the authorities :laugh:).

Though, the initial news report is interesting for another matter - the clear ideological attempt at rewriting the history of the Russian working class in the aspect of branding the October Revolution a coup d'etat (only on the basis of the violence of the process; this criterion itself signals that we're dealing here with a special kind of liberalism). I think Russian communists ought to pay attention to that. And about the body? Meh, don't care.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I don't buy the story about nationalists tearing down any "progressive" symbols whatsoever;

Judging from the above. I don't think I've been too clear and I want to apologize for this. The Liberal Democratic Party (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDPR_%28political_party%29) openly advocates summary execution of criminals, expulsion of immigrants, a return to Imperial Russia, endorses Fascist economics, and is led by a crazy person who made a political ad in which he beat a donkey symbolizing the backward, lazy Russian people. Who also is known to initiate fist fights when debating opponents. These are the people's proposal you're supporting? Why? Wtf? They're about as reactionary as you can get. And you think this is not nationalists tearing down symbols of progression?


I don't think that mummified corpses are appropriate for this either, as well as any iconic individual

Why not?

[Thirsty Crow]

These are the people's proposal you're supporting?Find me one instance when I'm supporting anything apart from the idea of battling this form of ruling ideology found in the original excerpt from the news with Zhirinovsky's statement.

Really, focus a bit on the argument at hand and refrain from this mind bogglingly shoddy logic of equating everything that doesn't represent an opposition (to the mere act of moving a corpse) with support.

And no, I don't think a dead body is a symbol of progression since this kind of symbolism necessarily runs the risk of uncritical deification, and the effects of this are well known, at least potential effects. What do you think this relocation of Lenin's corpse will effect in relation to the Russian working class and its struggle?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Find me one instance when I'm supporting anything apart from the idea of battling this form of ruling ideology found in the original excerpt from the news with Zhirinovsky's statement.

Do you or do you not want Lenin's mummy removed from Red Square? Is Zhirinovsky and crew not behind this? If you are in support of the removal as is being campaigned and proposed by LDPR, what am I to conclude? Again, I've been stressing the importance of context here.


Really, focus a bit on the argument at hand and refrain from this mind bogglingly shoddy logic of equating everything that doesn't represent an opposition (to the mere act of moving a corpse) with support.

That's really not what I'm doing but ok.


And no, I don't think a dead body is a symbol of progression since this kind of symbolism necessarily runs the risk of uncritical deification, and the effects of this are well known, at least potential effects.

Aside from the fact that I, personally am extremely critical Lenin, the Bolsheviks as embodied by their leader (Lenin) in theory was about women's rights, workers rights, etc, etc, genuinely progressive steps (whether any of this was ever genuinely accomplished, who knows). It's because of the politics of the Bolsheviks that the LDPR are pushing to rebrand the revolution and remove all exterior remnants of it ever happening. After Lenin, then what? What do you thinks happening? You think they feel the same way about other assholes like, for example, every Tsar ever? Of course not.


What do you think this relocation of Lenin's corpse will effect in relation to the Russian working class and its struggle?

Again, I'm not going to entertain economic determinist/reductionist silliness.

[PhoenixAsh]

this is relevant to this thread:


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-sNlgb3aH-FeadyM60D4BZoBhzeuS98BkPIjMHVg6XkkHwjeNqA

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Considering that Lenin himself didn't want to become a mummified cult icon, I don't see the controversy ...

[PhoenixAsh]

If anybody is concerned about losing and icon to communism when he is removed from the mausoleum....we could turn the mausoleum in a restaurant and actually feed the poor. During dinner we could entertain them between courses. You know...funny sketches. Political satire. We could do cabaret. I think that would get people interested.

The logo is already designed:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8wLXc42LeKU/UX1qM93G-MI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/6AoWkb5FNFk/s320/Lenin+beer,+chicken.jpg

[Prometeo liberado]

Lenin, finally put down by zoning issues? Wow, who'da thought. :confused:

[Red Commissar]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the way I recall Zhirinovsky does tend to do antics to attract media attention, particularly over aspects of Russian identity and its history that are controversial. This seems to be a part of that. I think more recently he made comments about his anger over the Russian hockey team losing in the Winter Olympics to Finland stating that the players should've been motivated by footage from the Winter War before hand.

This request is also extending to those individuals who were already properly buried within the Kremlin Wall grounds. That includes people from outside of Russia like Big Bill Haywood, John Reed, and Clara Zetkin. So it's not just about Lenin's messily-preserved mummy hogging space. There is an attempt to sanitize the heart of Russia from the legacy of the Soviet Union, for better or worse- and that includes attempts to recast the Bolsheviks as a clique that installed themselves into power rather than as part of a revolutionary wave. Just thinking recently I recall that during the 65th anniversary celebrations of World War II, they blocked the Mausoleum with a large poster-thing so they could cast it more as broad Russian patriotism, and more recently the Opening Ceremony of the Winter Olympics which had a run through of Russian history had a pretty glaring gap between Tsars and Modern Russia.

For the record I'd rather Lenin be buried anyways.

[Thirsty Crow]

Do you or do you not want Lenin's mummy removed from Red Square? Is Zhirinovsky and crew not behind this? If you are in support of the removal as is being campaigned and proposed by LDPR, what am I to conclude? Again, I've been stressing the importance of context here.As I said, I'm not going to play this game of support or not. To remind you, I don't care about the body. Now find me one quote where I state my support. Or to be generous, find me one quote where this is implied - and I'll show you again that this implication is a product of the said shoddy logic you persist with.


Again, I'm not going to entertain economic determinist/reductionist silliness. Yeah, the best way to defend from concrete questions, like what this proposed move will have as its effect, especially on the working class (demoralization, perhaps? indifference? ) is to disregard them altogether with some silly -ism slapped on it. Preferably reductionism, that rings a nice bell, even if the question has nothing to do with it.

So, we're back at the beginning. How will things change, apart from one lively symbol being buried?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

As I said, I'm not going to play this game of support or not. To remind you, I don't care about the body.

Round about way of saying I'm neutral but ok, lol, you're no fun.


Now find me one quote where I state my support. Or to be generous, find me one quote where this is implied - and I'll show you again that this implication is a product of the said shoddy logic you persist with.

Find me one example where I positively asserted that you did in fact support the LDP relocation proposal. I asked you is this what you supported for clarification purposes you understand.

Mind blowing stuff I know.


Yeah, the best way to defend from concrete questions, like what this proposed move will have as its effect, especially on the working class (demoralization, perhaps? indifference? ) is to disregard them altogether with some silly -ism slapped on it.

Because that so obviously what I'm doing, you're right.


Preferably reductionism, that rings a nice bell, even if the question has nothing to do with it.

I labeled it as such due to the fact the question is seemingly loaded with implications. I mean, why exactly are you asking this and phrasing this such a way within this context? It seems dismissive of the subject and the subject within its context. How? Glad you asked, the question seems to be making the statement, this is just a corpse being relocated, it has nothing to do with industry, production, economy, etc. directly qued it has no relevance to the class struggle in general or to the worker individually or collectively as a class. I also find (though I'm not necessarily accusing you of this) the objectification of human remains here disturbing and weird. I mean, what's the sell by date on a corpses corpsey-ness or humanity before it expires and become objectified?

I mean am I wrong? If so, why? From this basis is I ignored it as labeled.


So, we're back at the beginning. How will things change, apart from one lively symbol being buried?

Again, let me ask you, why are YOU asking this within this context? Is it to be dismissive of its relevance? Of its importance? I could very well cook up a hypothesis about how it might effect your average proletarian Josef Schmolin individually if you like. Or how this could distort or alter perceptions of historical realities and effect over all behavior. I mean, I feel like also asking, how and what do you mean as well. I mean, if this were truly no big deal and there was no subtext, why move him to begin with? Tourism = ¥£€$

[The Intransigent Faction]

Are there any surviving monuments to Czar Nicholas? Leninist or not, leftists should track those down and return the favour. :grin:

[BolshevikOG]

I really hope they do not go ahead with it this time!

Although they have spoken of this before. :rolleyes:

[Illegalitarian]

I think they should do with Lenin's body what he would have wanted:


Tie a bunch of strings to his arms and legs and then dangle him from a helicopter like a marionette and chase around Ukrainian nationalists with it. I think he would appreciate that the most.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Are there any surviving monuments to Czar Nicholas? Leninist or not, leftists should track those down and return the favour. :grin:

I think all remains of the Tsar and his family are in a church in Leningrad.

Interestingly enough, his extended family were also killed.

[Thirsty Crow]

Round about way of saying I'm neutral but ok, lol, you're no fun.Oh I'm a ton of fun, when drinking with and so on. It's just that entertaining someone in a discussion about relocating a corpse is a weird medium to have fun with. The same goes for any debate - but hey I might be a grumpy old man who'd rather actually discuss something, draw a lesson out of it if possible, and have fun after that. Sorry to disappoint.


Find me one example where I positively asserted that you did in fact support the LDP relocation proposal. I asked you is this what you supported for clarification purposes you understand.

Mind blowing stuff I know.
After repeatedly saying I don't care for the body, you kept on framing the question in the way I rejected earlier. So, it was a reasonable assumption that it just might be that you wish to impute support since it seemed you're simply not capable of thinking outside the frame of support-oppose in this instance. Though, I was wrong after all in implying that you do think that I'm offering a kind of a support.


Because that so obviously what I'm doing, you're right. Yes, you are.
The question is really, really simple. It asks of the expected and intended effect (perhaps those two might not overlap nicely). It's the most basic question when faced with an action. But it's tricky since it simply necessitates digging deep so to speak and actually coping with facts on the ground - e.g. how do Russian workers approach this proposal, how they relate to the whole historical legacy of the USSR in general, and to the corpse in particular, and what could happen - if anything - if the proposal went through, and also, what would an organized opposition by communists bring about, how this would affect workers both in their ideas and in their struggle, and so on.

I don't claim I've got it figured out. Though, the two substantial points were related to communists in Russia: trash the cult of personality as the historical legacy, it's no fucking good for what we want to accomplish, and do something about that fool Zhirinovsky running his mouth about the October Revolution. And to anticipate a potential counter-argument, no, I don't think that this first point will be productively achieved by executing this proposal.

Now. You responded to this simple question of effect with something so stupid and incoherent that I just can't see how you thought it up. Economic reductionism would in fact prevent me from posing this question as I would be in a position to claim that this hasn't got anything to do with the economic crisis and the predicament of Russian capital.

If anything, if you really wanted to throw an -ism at me, you could accuse me of a strange kind of workerism. Though, you'd have to define it carefully, and I'm done with trying to help you in arguing against me so you can have a shot at that yourself.


I mean, why exactly are you asking this and phrasing this such a way within this context? Because this, as I said, is the basic stuff of dealing with action - why did someone do it? For what purpose and with what effects in mind? Did the effects actually come about, and what with another unintended effects?

When you leave this terrain of concrete human interaction you're left with nothing but ghosts and abstractions. Symbols of progression being torn down and the whole aether reverberating with destructive and invisible consequences. Welcome to the shadow realm.


It seems dismissive of the subject and the subject within its context.
It is indeed dismissive of the narrow subject of that corpse and the supposed symbols of progression that aren't related back to living and working (not to dismiss folks on the dole, to be sure, and students...) people in their day to day lives. See the above for an explanation of the reason behind dismissing this.


I also find (though I'm not necessarily accusing you of this) the objectification of human remains here disturbing and weird. I mean, what's the sell by date on a corpses corpsey-ness or humanity before it expires and become objectified? You'll have to be way more specific in explaining what does this mean. I get it that you're disturbed a bit by my lack of reverence for a dead body. Though, I have no idea why would anyone be - and sure, I'd be more respectful if it were a person you personally knew and cared for, and wouldn't even a) talk like this, and b) actually argue this point. But that's not the case here.

And I have no clue whatsoever what would objectifying a corpse mean. It's a corpse, not a person. It's an object. And? Am I being indecent in not treating a dead body as a person?


...it has no relevance to the class struggle in general or to the worker individually or collectively as a classTo be completely honest, I'd speculate that this is the case, but I would definitely not either a) claim any reliable knowledge here or b) shut out the possibility of better informed people showing me that it's different from what I believe it is.

In other words, I'm actually asking if it is really so; there is no reason whatsoever why this move could not affect the class, some segments and so on. It's easily imaginable that some Muscovite workers, maybe a good number of em, sport a relationship to Lenin's body, are ready to oppose this, and in case of failure would be really demoralized.
Which should tell you something of that earlier blurb of economic reductionism.