The zero-sum game

[Thanatos]

Not saying that it should be this way - as a commie, I believe in cooperation rather than competition but ...........

Isn't it better to face the fact that at this stage in history, society is built along these lines? That human beings see each other as rivals? that we take it for granted that we must compete for everything in practically every field? Even in relationships, people compete, play mind games etc., so it is not just an economic or political thing. It is as if this mindset pervades all our activities, including areas where competition is clearly destructive.....

My point is, would it help a commie to approach things from this perspective rather than have a naive, idealistic (idealistic not in the Marxist sense but in the loose sense of the term) view? For instance, you can't improve class consciousness of the worker by appealing to his logic or emotion, since the capitalist is doing his stuff, namely injecting the worker with patriotism etc. to counter our stuff.

Meaning, both of us compete for the same goal, namely getting workers on our side. So even in ideological matters, it is only a zero-sum game.

So, again, is it better to organize keeping in mind that literally everything under the sun is guided by this game theory?

[genjer]

Imagine two slaves who work together on the same plantation, but they hate each other. They fight over food and work assignments and compete for the affections of a man or woman who they both love. Still, they can agree on wanting to abolish slavery.

Marx's theory was not that we should put aside our self-interest for the joy of helping others, he said that socialism will be more productive, and it is in the self-interest of the working class to establish it.

Capitalist production already has a social character, where thousands of people work together to design and produce a single commodity. However, this is contradicted by the private character of ownership of the means of production, which leads to gross inefficiencies as the boss rips everybody off, makes stupid decisions, and wastes resources on luxury items.

Communists want to establish social control over the means of production, to establish a rational democratic economy. That doesn't mean personal disputes and romantic rivalries will disappear under socialism. But de-alienating people from society will probably help things a bit: if there is more opportunity to prosper through honest work, there will be less theft/crime; if the economy is more transparent and people are more educated, there will be less corruption.

[Cheese Guevara]

"Marx's theory was not that we should put aside our self-interest for the joy of helping others, he said that socialism will be more productive, and it is in the self-interest of the working class to establish it."

Yes, this is a key point. Social systems which work in everybody's best interest, can also work in the best interests of the individual. ie - altruistic actions can be selfish.

"So, again, is it better to organize keeping in mind that literally everything under the sun is guided by this game theory?"

I guess that's why it's called class war. It's an Us vs Them situation, and they have the guns, power and media. Some radicals state that "change is inevitable due to objective processes", whilst others take a more pro-active stance (fight!). Many believe that it is important to spread ideas, spread a certain consciousness and hope that these ideas snowball and lead to change in the future. Some also believe in fighting for transitional demands, fighting for little changes which slowly force capitalism to change.

It took about 400 years for capitalism to fully replace feudalism/late monarchy, and this transition didn't happen with one clean cut. So, who knows what will happen.