Do you think the western world deserves terrorists attacks and disasters?

[JudasMaiden]

Do you think that America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings? Do you think other western/developed countries (including Japan) deserves terrorist attacks or disasters?

I personally think America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings because of their war crimes and imperialism (Sanctions on Iraq, Vietnam War, Secret bombings of Cambodia and Laos, Indian Removal, Manifest destiny(American Lebensraum), Philippine-American War, Bombings of Afghanistan and Pakistan all the fucking time, Bombings of Latin American countries, etc). I hope America gets struck with crippling sanctions as well or suffers a lot worse than their victims for getting away with their war crimes(I'm American by the way).

Israel deserves it's bombings for mistreating Palestinians and Turkey deserves it's terrorist attacks for not forgiving the Armenians, Pontic Greeks, and Assyrians in the Ottoman genocide of them. Britain deserves the terrorist attacks for mistreating the Irish badly and collaborating with the American Imperialists (I don't know if Britain forgave the Irish yet, but I know they have embassies in each others countries and they are on good relations with each other). Japan deserves it's earthquake and radiation leak for it's war crimes they never forgave. We need to bring these real terrorists to justice. The real terrorists are the corporations and the government.

Fuck All Countries, Fuck Nationalism and Capitalism! Brotherhood for all humans!

[Slavic]

Do you think that America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings? Do you think other western/developed countries (including Japan) deserves terrorist attacks or disasters?

I personally think America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings because of their war crimes and imperialism (Sanctions on Iraq, Vietnam War, Secret bombings of Cambodia and Laos, Indian Removal, Manifest destiny(American Lebensraum), Philippine-American War, Bombings of Afghanistan and Pakistan all the fucking time, Bombings of Latin American countries, etc). I hope America gets struck with crippling sanctions as well or suffers a lot worse than their victims for getting away with their war crimes(I'm American by the way).

Israel deserves it's bombings for mistreating Palestinians and Turkey deserves it's terrorist attacks for not forgiving the Armenians, Pontic Greeks, and Assyrians in the Ottoman genocide of them. Britain deserves the terrorist attacks for mistreating the Irish badly and collaborating with the American Imperialists (I don't know if Britain forgave the Irish yet, but I know they have embassies in each others countries and they are on good relations with each other). Japan deserves it's earthquake and radiation leak for it's war crimes they never forgave. We need to bring these real terrorists to justice. The real terrorists are the corporations and the government.

Fuck All Countries and Fuck Nationalism and Capitalism!

Not to insult, but what the fuck is wrong with you. Since when do innocent people deserve to die because of their political ruler's past and current actions.

[Skyhilist]

I personally think America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings because of their war crimes and imperialism

Wow seriously? Fuck that, the workers in the twin towers and the students in schools aren't the ones who make decisions to go imperialize other countries, it's the politicians of the ruling class. If you really think that the young children at Sandy Hook elementary school deserved to be shot for living in the wrong country then you're a disgusting human being.


Fuck All Countries, Fuck Nationalism and Capitalism! Brotherhood for all humans!

Except for humans living under imperialist governments amirite?

[Comrade Jacob]

No civilians deserve to be killed but with the type of stuff our states do creates fertile ground for murderous maniacs to have an excuse.
So, no. Attacks on the state itself, yes, but on the people absolutely not.

[JudasMaiden]

I don't think anyone should die, but the governments should suffer for their past war crimes. I'm currently having a huge rage right now.

[Comrade Jacob]

I don't think anyone should die, but the governments should suffer for their past crimes. I'm currently having a huge rage right now.

Yes, the government should, not the people. Which is why people had a problem with you saying 9/11 was deserved.

[Skyhilist]

I don't think anyone should die

Really? Because


America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings

Sure sounds like it to me. These events don't punish the ruling class, the kill innocent people. So when you say these events are "deserved", you're not saying anything about the bourgeois rulers who go relatively unaffected by these things, you're saying that civilians (even young children in some cases) deserve to die.

[Rosa Partizan]

Yeah let just more civilians and innocent people die, all this suffering and pointless deaths already happening every day is just not enough.

[Sabot Cat]

Do you think that America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings? Do you think other western/developed countries (including Japan) deserves terrorist attacks or disasters?

What kind of idiot actually thinks of nations as continuous bodies with unified minds and responsibility for the actions of their bourgeois leaders? Who believes in retributive "justice" like this?


I personally think America deserved 9/11 and all these school shootings because of their war crimes and imperialism


Oh, you do evidently. No child deserves to be shot, as I think other posters will hopefully say.


(Sanctions on Iraq, Vietnam War, Secret bombings of Cambodia and Laos, Indian Removal, Manifest destiny(American Lebensraum), Philippine-American War, Bombings of Afghanistan and Pakistan all the fucking time, Bombings of Latin American countries, etc). I hope America gets struck with crippling sanctions as well or suffers a lot worse than their victims for getting away with their war crimes(I'm American by the way).

Yeah, you realize that sanctions usually affect the lowest classes, right? Such as refugees from Iraq, Vietnam, Cambodia and Lao that are currently citizens in the U.S.? Or Filipino-Americans and American Indians? These people would be impacted by this stupid revenge mentality more than the actual imperialists, who are either dead or have escape hatches most people don't.

[Slavic]

Alright, I am going to assume that JudasMaiden is reaching for the argument that said attacks had logical causes and effects. The US as well as the other mentioned imperial powers have indeed cause untold horrors and destruction on the vast majority of the world. Said actions logically would lead to a response from said oppressed majority which has taken the form of terrorist attacks.

Mind you this is a gross simplification but I am going to assume that is what Judas meant.

This does not though condone the actions of said imperialist powers nor the reaction of terrorist attacks.

[Sabot Cat]

Alright, I am going to assume that JudasMaiden is reaching for the argument that said attacks had logical causes and effects. The US as well as the other mentioned imperial powers have indeed cause untold horrors and destruction on the vast majority of the world. Said actions logically would lead to a response from said oppressed majority which has taken the form of terrorist attacks.

Mind you this is a gross simplification but I am going to assume that is what Judas meant.

This does not though condone the actions of said imperialist powers nor the reaction of terrorist attacks.

Not trying to grill you but: How did imperialism cause school shootings? And since when did "cause" mean "deserve"?

[JudasMaiden]

This was an embarrassing thread to make, I just had a huge furious rant on American, European, and Japanese Imperialism. No human deserves to die any sort of violent death, even those who support imperialist governments like U.S.A, U.K, Japan, and France. I make my apologies to all. I used "Karma" on this thread. We should hunt down the real imperialists/terrorists who are alive today and not say "The Japanese men, women, and children deserved the earthquake due to the Japanese government's war crimes in WW2", "The American men, women, and children deserved 9/11 for the American government's imperialist war crimes spanning 200 years" or "The British men, women, and children deserved their terrorist attacks due to the British/English government badly mistreating/exploiting the Irish for hundreds of years and collaborating with other imperialists such as Americans or the French".

Please close this thread.
I certainly didn't mean to say that civilians living in an imperialist country should suffer due to their government's past imperialist crimes. I was so fucking enraged, I think I would see a Bob Ross painting video now.

[Criminalize Heterosexuality]

On one hand, we have better things to do than to worry about imperialist generals, soldiers, CEOs, State Department analysts, etc., killed in terrorist attacks. On the other hand, saying that kids who died in the Sandy Hook shooting deserved to die because of the actions of the American bourgeoisie is precisely the imperialist mindset that excuses the starvation of Iraqi children.

Also, unless you are the sort of person who thinks that imperialism can be fought on a purely military basis, followed by an occupation of America by persyns of color and placing the Amerikkkan labor aristocracy into reeducation camps, it is precisely the American proletariat who will overthrow imperialist capitalism in America.

Last, but not least, to the communist, the enemy is the bourgeoisie, not "the corporations" - that reeks of liberalism.

[Slavic]

Not trying to grill you but: How did imperialism cause school shootings? And since when did "cause" mean "deserve"?

I deliberately did not mention the school shootings because they do not work in the scenario I played out.

Also "since when did "cause" mean "deserve"?" It doesn't, I am not supporting Judas's stance it was my attempt (hope), that he was just pissed off and said some really stupid shit and could of reasoned himself better.

But if he in fact meant what he said then I stand by my first response.


Not to insult, but what the fuck is wrong with you. Since when do innocent people deserve to die because of their political ruler's past and current actions.

[PhoenixAsh]

o good the birth of a Third Worldist rant thread

These attacks are an inevitable outcome of imperialism and war. Sometimes when you shoot at people...they shoot back. I am at a loss why you call them terrorists when you think their actions are justified and deserved. Personally I think these acts are not terrorism but acts of war. But whatever.

I am also at a loss how you connect high school shootings with imperialism. These however are an inevitable outcome of rampant consumerism, social developments and alienation imo.

The earthquakes in Japan are not a reaction to anything the country has done. They are a force of nature and not some divine retribution...but...well...acts of nature. The structural integrity of Fukushima however is directly related to corporate greed the consequences of which are now carried by the Japanese population which has been lied to, misled and downright coerced to deal with them. The spill is a global ecological and environmental disaster which affects all of us. I am not sure how this is deserved.

This sentence has me stumped:


Turkey deserves it's terrorist attacks for not forgiving the Armenians, Pontic Greeks, and Assyrians in the Ottoman genocide of them.

As in: wtf did I just read?

Are you seriously talking about Assyrians? You know...the ones that ended being a kingdom of any note in 650 BC??

I am also not sure where all the use of the word forgiveness comes from...and how it applies and what you mean,

Sanctions will not happen. America is the most influential and most powerful nation at this moment and that usually means there will be no trials, no sanctions and perhaps only some scolding form the sidelines for their actions.
So don't count on these.

Britain is an imperialist entity all by itself and doesn't need America.

Unfortunately you forget people are not "their" nations. A lot of people died. It is no more tragic for a wedding to get bombed in Iraq than for somebody to be blown up in a bus or have a plane drop on their heads or develop cancer...because bourgeoisie entities go to war or want to up their profit margins.

[PhoenixAsh]

This was an embarrassing thread to make, I just had a huge furious rant on American, European, and Japanese Imperialism.
Please close this thread.
I certainly didn't mean to say that civilians living in an imperialist country should suffer due to their government's past imperialist crimes. I was so fucking enraged, I think I would see a Bob Ross painting video now.

Well...maybe you could tell us why you were enraged by that and what you were trying to say now that you have calmed down a bit.

[Criminalize Heterosexuality]

I am also at a loss how you connect high school shootings with imperialism. These however are an inevitable outcome of rampant consumerism, social developments and alienation imo.

How on Earth are school shootings connected to "consumerism"? It seems people will blame "consumerism" (a term that usually denotes merely that the speaker sneers at the things being consumed and the number other people consume them in) everything from war to penile disfunction.


Are you seriously talking about Assyrians? You know...the ones that ended being a kingdom of any note in 650 BC??

Yes, he's seriously speaking about Assyrians, an Aramaic-speaking national group in Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq.

[Sabot Cat]

These attacks are an inevitable outcome of imperialism and war. Sometimes when you shoot at people...they shoot back. I am at a loss why you call them terrorists when you think their actions are justified and deserved. Personally I think these acts are not terrorism but acts of war. But whatever.

I concur with the rest of your post, but to the bolded:

http://cdn.niketalk.com/0/0b/0bd0dda3_30621480.jpeg

[Atsumari]

Shit, if FOX News saw the opening post, that would be an embarrassment to all of us.

[Devrim]

Are you seriously talking about Assyrians? You know...the ones that ended being a kingdom of any note in 650 BC??

There are still Assyrians in Turkey though not very many nowadays. There are probably about a million of them in Syria. The most famous Assyrian who you have probably heard of is Andre Aggasi, the tennis player.

Devrim

[JudasMaiden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXrZPHnaJao
I think this is the real cause of most shootings and the rise of mass shootings. Since 1988, the anti-depressant use has skyrocketed by 400%.

[boiler]

I think the governments and ruling classes would deserve it. Innocent people don't deserve it.

[PhoenixAsh]

How on Earth are school shootings connected to "consumerism"? It seems people will blame "consumerism" (a term that usually denotes merely that the speaker sneers at the things being consumed and the number other people consume them in) everything from war to penile disfunction.

Consumerism is a social mentality of a society driven by the need to purchase goods in order to create social status or form which social status is measured . In effect it creates a mentality and mindset of 1) you don’t have enough, 2) you’re not attractive enough and 3) you aren’t happy enough.

And yes...this is part of capitalism. But simply put...not every capitalist country is consumerist. And some are more consumerist than others. The US is...well..the epitome of consumerism.



Yes, he's seriously speaking about Assyrians, an Aramaic-speaking national group in Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq.


There are still Assyrians in Turkey though not very many nowadays. There are probably about a million of them in Syria. The most famous Assyrian who you have probably heard of is Andre Aggasi, the tennis player.

Devrim

Awesome. I did not know this. I thought those were Chaldeans, Syric Christians and Arameans. Meh...thats apparently what a history study buys :o

[JudasMaiden]

I think the governments and ruling classes would deserve it. Innocent people don't deserve it.

Even there, the ruling classes are humans just like the rest of us and if we were to kill the ruling classes, don't kill any children, because only dipshits kill children. Also don't kill any person of the ruling class if that person was to defect to fight for the proletariat.

[Devrim]

Awesome. I did not know this. I thought those were Chaldeans, Syric Christians and Arameans. Meh...thats apparently what a history study buys :o

They are all the same thing really. There are some disputes within the community about how to refer to themselves, and of course because they are spread across areas with different languages, they have picked up different names from their neighbours, but they are essentially all the same things.

Devrim

[Bostana]

I personally think America deserved 9/11 \!


Dude why do citizens deserve to be killed because their government is imperialist? It make no fucking sense and you're either trolling are just fucking stupid.

Someone ban this asshole.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

I struggle to understand why some people think being a socialist makes genocidal hatred of America and the West in general okay.:laugh:

[Criminalize Heterosexuality]

Consumerism is a social mentality of a society driven by the need to purchase goods in order to create social status or form which social status is measured . In effect it creates a mentality and mindset of 1) you don’t have enough, 2) you’re not attractive enough and 3) you aren’t happy enough.

And yes...this is part of capitalism. But simply put...not every capitalist country is consumerist. And some are more consumerist than others. The US is...well..the epitome of consumerism.

That doesn't answer my question; what does consumerism have to do with school shootings? As for the rest, I don't see how this sort of consumerism (I think the only useful notion of consumerism is the "production of needs"; the paragraph above hints at that but conflates this with ostentatious spending, which has been a feature of class society for quite some time now) should concern Marxists. We aim to end class society, not retain it and force people to change their spending habits to something we like.


They are all the same thing really. There are some disputes within the community about how to refer to themselves, and of course because they are spread across areas with different languages, they have picked up different names from their neighbours, but they are essentially all the same things.

Aren't there minor ethnic differences, though, particularly between the Chaldeans and Assyrians? That is the impression I got, but I suppose you would know better. There is a similar situation in the former Yugoslavia with the Bunjevci and Šokci ethnic groupuscules.

[JudasMaiden]

Dude why do citizens deserve to be killed because their government is imperialist? It make no fucking sense and you're either trolling are just fucking stupid.

Someone ban this asshole.

Look, I had an irrational amount of anger when I made this post earlier. Now that I have calmed down, I think that no innocent person deserves to suffer because of their government being imperialist. It should only be the imperialist governments and the people/corporations who are behind the imperialist governments that should suffer.

[boiler]

Even there, the ruling classes are humans just like the rest of us and if we were to kill the ruling classes, don't kill any children, because only dipshits kill children. Also don't kill any person of the ruling class if that person was to defect to fight for the proletariat.

They may be humans but they don't care about all the humans around the world that suffer and live in misery because of their greed. If there was lets say a head of some multinational corporation bombed or shot, I think he or she would have deserved it and had it coming. Yeah I agree the ruling class kids don't deserve it. And if a person wants to defect from the ruling class that's fair enough, they can. I believe everyone as it in them to change for the better good if they really want to.

[PhoenixAsh]

That doesn't answer my question; what does consumerism have to do with school shootings? As for the rest, I don't see how this sort of consumerism (I think the only useful notion of consumerism is the "production of needs"; the paragraph above hints at that but conflates this with ostentatious spending, which has been a feature of class society for quite some time now) should concern Marxists. We aim to end class society, not retain it and force people to change their spending habits to something we like.


I am not a Marxist....nor did I say we shouldn't end class society or should change spending habits. Where exactly did you read that and could you quote that part?

Consumerism is a social mentality of a society driven by the need to purchase goods in order to create social status or from which social status is measured . In effect it creates a mentality and mindset of 1) you don’t have enough, 2) you’re not attractive enough and 3) you aren’t happy enough. Materialism causes a false sense of psychological well being and security. This kind of narcissism and hedonism however leads to social stratification, indifference which, sometimes viciously, disenfranchises and shames some members of the group and exacerbates feelings of resentment, hatred and jealousy. Which in turn leads to violence.

Also...consumerism doesn't mean at all what you say here.




Aren't there minor ethnic differences, though, particularly between the Chaldeans and Assyrians? That is the impression I got, but I suppose you would know better. There is a similar situation in the former Yugoslavia with the Bunjevci and Šokci ethnic groupuscules.

I didn't post this. Devrim did. I have no clue but I think you might be right.

[Devrim]

Aren't there minor ethnic differences, though, particularly between the Chaldeans and Assyrians? That is the impression I got, but I suppose you would know better. There is a similar situation in the former Yugoslavia with the Bunjevci and Šokci ethnic groupuscules.

No, there are no ethnic differences. The Chaldeans are, as you suggest, actually a specific type of Assyrian, but the difference is not ethnic, but sectarian. They belong to a different church. However, not all Muslims are experts in the doctrinal differences between different Assyrian sects, and in Iraq, where a large majority of Assyrians belong to the Chaldean Catholic Church, local people have a tendency to call Assyrians Chaldeans regardless of their sect.

Devrim

[Red Commissar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXrZPHnaJao
I think this is the real cause of most shootings and the rise of mass shootings. Since 1988, the anti-depressant use has skyrocketed by 400%.

Well, yeah it is right in the sense that there is a root to some of these school violence as a result of disorder in the society rather than only access to weapons, but he carefully avoids saying where that disorder is from. The answer is something that would run contrary to what he'd prescribe as the magic pill for the US.

also regarding "stormcloudsgathering" I highly suggest you check out this thread. It has a right-libertarian angle

http://www.revleft.com/vb/stormcloudsgathering-t182981/index.html?t=182981

[Leftsolidarity]

Dude why do citizens deserve to be killed because their government is imperialist? It make no fucking sense and you're either trolling are just fucking stupid.

Someone ban this asshole.

Shut up. You're not a mod or admin and that is not the way to go about reporting someone you think is breaking the forum's rules or is a troll. There's a thread for reporting trolls and there is a 'report post' button. If you don't want to do either of those you can send a mod/admin a message asking them to check it out. Calling for someone's banning in a thread (and while at the same time flaming) is not appropriate, productive, or anything other than being obnoxious.

You can think they are stupid if you want but that doesn't mean you can flame and call for a ban. And it doesn't even seem as if you read more than the very first post anyways.

[Prometeo liberado]

Can we get this thread secured for end of the year voting on "Worst Thread of the Year"? It's a lock unless the pedophiles come back.

[Art Vandelay]

Please close this thread.
I certainly didn't mean to say that civilians living in an imperialist country should suffer due to their government's past imperialist crimes. I was so fucking enraged, I think I would see a Bob Ross painting video now.

:lol:

This made up for the rest of the thread. 10/10, would read again.

[Raquin]

Can we get this thread secured for end of the year voting on "Worst Thread of the Year"? It's a lock unless the pedophiles come back.
What pedophiles?

[Devrim]

Dude why do citizens deserve to be killed because their government is imperialist? It make no fucking sense and you're either trolling are just fucking stupid.

Someone ban this asshole.

I don't know where the OP is from, but in the Middle East it is quite a common attitude that the Americans deserved it. I remember the day that the planes flew into the twin towers and going home and telling my partner, who replied "good, they deserved it". She was someone who was not religious in any way, and who considered herself a socialist. It was a really common response at the time.

Of course, when Americans come out with this sort of stuff, it is a bit difficult to understand, but I would say when others, particularly in the Middle East, come out with the same thing, you have to engage with it and not just abuse people.

Devrim

[Hrafn]

"I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all."

[Leopardo]

Even there, the ruling classes are humans just like the rest of us and if we were to kill the ruling classes, don't kill any children, because only dipshits kill children. Also don't kill any person of the ruling class if that person was to defect to fight for the proletariat.

Whatever happened to using diplomacy?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

No, I don't think innocent people deserve being slaughtered by their own government only to earn the privilege of being sent off to be killed in the name of them that killed their brothers and sisters and to commit unspeakable acts of attrition and inhumanity themselves. Which ultimately leads to death or something worse than death, PTSD. Every 80 minutes a US veteran commits self murder. Think about that Jack.

[Creative Destruction]

well, white people certainly deserve to be killed.

[La Guaneña]

Well I do think that any murricans who step into other countries to kill also have the right to die. Now terrorist attacks back at home is not good.