Event of the british branch of KKE in London

[Delenda Carthago]

http://inter.kke.gr/export/sites/inter/.content/images/news/-9-_REVa-2.JPG_1978497387.jpg

[reb]

Great, maybe you can now support the small landowners and petite bourgeoisie of Britain.

[Delenda Carthago]

Or this (http://www.pamehellas.gr/index.php/en/press-releases/3326-the-class-%E2%80%93-oriented-trade-union-movement-of-greece-is-on-the-side-of-the-rmt).

[Delenda Carthago]

A photo from the event.
http://inter.kke.gr/export/sites/inter/.content/images/news/kke-london.jpg_1195308835.jpg



The whole speech can be found here (http://inter.kke.gr/en/articles/Event-of-KKE-in-London/).

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

was gonna go but didn't want to be handed over to the pigs by the KKE.

[MaximMK]

Great :)

[Delenda Carthago]

was gonna go but didn't want to be handed over to the pigs by the KKE.
Yeah...


Can your organisation gather so many people as KKE can IN ENGLAND?

What I mean is, your organisation in England comparing to what KKE does in England. I would def be suprised if it did.

Btw, two of my friends are studying in England but couldnt go due to money issues.

[Sam_b]

Can your organisation gather so many people as KKE can IN ENGLAND?

What I mean is, your organisation in England comparing to what KKE does in England. I would def be suprised if it did.

Never takes long for the sectarianism of KKE supporter's masks to slip. So now it's not about them but it's about how many people IN ENGLAND turn up to your meetings compared to them, and the usual BLOCK CAPITAL BOLD SLOGANEERING that goes along with it. In England.

[PhoenixAsh]

What I do not understand is their concrete proposal of what to do now.

Because it seems to me they are arguing against the EU but are also arguing to stay in the EU until other countries follow suit. That position, although I understand the basic reasoning behind it, seems to me as a stale mate.

Can you clarify this? Or explain it to me if I misunderstood.

[Delenda Carthago]

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/039/a/6/deal_with_it_glasses_by_stewartisme-d5tuvbk.png

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Never takes long for the sectarianism of KKE supporter's masks to slip. So now it's not about them but it's about how many people IN ENGLAND turn up to your meetings compared to them, and the usual BLOCK CAPITAL BOLD SLOGANEERING that goes along with it. In England.
I think the sectarianism first came from reb and Vladimir Innit Lenin.

[Delenda Carthago]

What I do not understand is their concrete proposal of what to do now.

Because it seems to me they are arguing against the EU but are also arguing to stay in the EU until other countries follow suit. That position, although I understand the basic reasoning behind it, seems to me as a stale mate.

Can you clarify this? Or explain it to me if I misunderstood.
The proposal of KKE is neither in or out of EU with capitalism. Release from EU with People's Power ie socialism.

KKE in general is against stage theory and believes that withdrawing from EU under capitalism, will only make other parts of Capital benefit from it.

[PhoenixAsh]

The proposal of KKE is neither in or out of EU with capitalism. Release from EU with People's Power ie socialism.

KKE in general is against stage theory and believes that withdrawing from EU under capitalism, will only make other parts of Capital benefit from it.

I kind of understood that. But realistically would that not lead to a stalemate position where Greece will simply remain in the EU? I don't disagree with the analysis that leaving the EU will simply recreate Greek capitalism....but staying in the EU at the same time will not change the predicaments of Greece. The domination of the EU will simply still be enforced either indirectly through policy or directly through economic blockades and sanctions.

[Delenda Carthago]

I am willing to have a conversation over political thesis with EVERYONE. No matter if we agree or not.

What I am not willing to do, is getting into conversations with people that are only about bashing KKE to kill their time thinking they are doing something. Trust me, I can easily be the biggest prick you 've ever seen. Dont make me go there.

[Delenda Carthago]

I kind of understood that. But realistically would that not lead to a stalemate position where Greece will simply remain in the EU? I don't disagree with the analysis that leaving the EU will simply recreate Greek capitalism....but staying in the EU at the same time will not change the predicaments of Greece. The domination of the EU will simply still be enforced either indirectly through policy or directly through economic blockades and sanctions.
Of course, that something greek people need to realise(and they have disapointely failed to, yet). The way things are, the only way to have a pro-people political change is to connect the Anti-Mnemonioum demands with leaving EU, with socialism.


Otherwise, anything else is either a false promise, or a choice that will not help the people of Greece. I mean, how can you be Anti-Mnemonioum and not be against EU, since the famous Troika(which falsely greek people are blaming for the cuts, as if the greek capitalists had nothing to do with it), is 2/3 EU(the other 1/3 is IMF). And how can you be pro people if you cant insure them that the capitalists wont either leave the country or worse keep everything they owe in Euros and come back and buy everything with peanuts.


Its a hard jump forward but its the only way.

[PhoenixAsh]

Ok. So if I understand it correctly:

What the KKE is proposing is to only leave the EU if that means adopting socialism for Greece. If that doesn't happen then the move to leave the EU will be...out of the frying pan and into the fire...basically handing Greece over to another set of capitalists.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I am willing to have a conversation over political thesis with EVERYONE. No matter if we agree or not.

Problem is you're part of an organisation whose actions speak louder than words. It's all very well saying you are happy to consider the welfare of horses after you've had a whole bunch of them put down, y'know?

If you'd have addressed the issues in the KKE at the time, people like me wouldn't feel so aggrieved as to have to point out the problems with the KKE all the time.


What I am not willing to do, is getting into conversations with people that are only about bashing KKE to kill their time thinking they are doing something.

Doing something? Cos doing anything is better than nothing, and the more numbers you have the better, right? :rolleyes:


Trust me,

Not on your life, you support and defend an organisation that actively handed other leftists over to the cops.

[Delenda Carthago]

Ok. So if I understand it correctly:

What the KKE is proposing is to only leave the EU if that means adopting socialism for Greece. If that doesn't happen then the move to leave the EU will be...out of the frying pan and into the fire...basically handing Greece over to another set of capitalists.
Pretty much, yeah.

[Delenda Carthago]

Problem is you're part of an organisation whose actions speak louder than words. It's all very well saying you are happy to consider the welfare of horses after you've had a whole bunch of them put down, y'know?

If you'd have addressed the issues in the KKE at the time, people like me wouldn't feel so aggrieved as to have to point out the problems with the KKE all the time.



Doing something? Cos doing anything is better than nothing, and the more numbers you have the better, right? :rolleyes:



Not on your life, you support and defend an organisation that actively handed other leftists over to the cops.
Ssssssoooo, the answer is....no?:lol:


Dont worry man. You get plenty of revleft likes. Someday your political strategy will be historicaly justified. Keep it real until then. Post more.:rolleyes:

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Ssssssoooo, the answer is....no?:lol:

The answer is that I don't need to get my dick out and start telling everyone how much bigger it is than theirs.

Until you get that, you'll continue to be infantile and irrelevant.



Dont worry man. You get plenty of revleft likes. Someday your political strategy will be historicaly justified. Keep it real until then. Post more.:rolleyes:

I guess the day your political strategy will be justified will be when you go full circle and move from Marxism-Leninism back to Anarchism.

[Delenda Carthago]

The answer is that I don't need to get my dick out and start telling everyone how much bigger it is than theirs.





But honey...is it? I mean there is a communist party in the other side of Europe that has politics that appeal more to the people of your country, that actually exists more as a political force in your country than you.

I mean, OK. I know that to people who think being a leftist shit is only about reading books, posting on internet and having to travel 2hours trip to meet a comrade, but in true life, a revolutionary is the one that his politics appeal to people.

You are so far from appealing to the working class, that not only you are not, but your think that doing so is....bragging about your peepee.:unsure:


So, you know, if I were you, I wouldnt talk so much about...




you'll continue to be infantile and irrelevant.


YouknowImean?;)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

[QUOTE=Delenda Carthago;2720559]But honey...is it?

Calling me honey? I suppose you'll tell me to 'calm down, dear' next. :rolleyes:



I mean there is a communist party in the other side of Europe that has politics that appeal more to the people of your country, that actually exists more as a political force in your country than you.


This is just conjecture. I imagine there are literally no more than a handful of British people who have heard of the KKE, never mind support it.

There is no communist party that has any resonance or relevance in Britain, so your point really is moot.



I mean, OK. I know that to people who think being a leftist shit is only about reading books, posting on internet and having to travel 2hours trip to meet a comrade, but in true life, a revolutionary is the one that his politics appeal to people.

Ah yes, only the professionals should be called 'leftists'. Leave the rest of the stupid proles to their daily jobs whilst the big boys get on with playing revolution, right?


You are so far from appealing to the working class, that not only you are not, but your think that doing so is....bragging about your peepee.:unsure:

I'm a human being. I'm not trying to appeal to the working class, idiot.

[Delenda Carthago]

[QUOTE]

Calling me honey? I suppose you'll tell me to 'calm down, dear' next. :rolleyes:


In case you missed it, I was telling you that your peepee is not that biggie to show it around.:lol:



This is just conjecture. I imagine there are literally no more than a handful of British people who have heard of the KKE, never mind support it.

Of course. It is a party from the other side of Europe. What else could it be? The thing is not that KKE is not even heard in England. The thing is that you are even more irrelevant to enlgish people than KKE is.:lol:


Ah yes, only the professionals should be called 'leftists'. Leave the rest of the stupid proles to their daily jobs whilst the big boys get on with playing revolution, right?

The professionals?! I m not a professional, and I have three comrades leaving just down the street. I participate on the class struggle of my town, I talk to workers in factories, I help in organising rallies and speeches, I guard factories on the days of strikes, I give away leaflets, I post posters etc.

This is what it means to be a communist. Maybe one day you ll figure it out yourself. :)


I'm a human being. I'm not trying to appeal to the working class, idiot.

Viva la revolution!

[MaximMK]

I support KKE for uniting and promoting initiatives of the communist parties of Europe and meetings of the world communist parties. They are doing their best to unite the parties of the world and get them to talk for a mutual action which is good. Im also always happy when i see a communist party or an organization because they are keeping Marxism popular and if not at least getting people interested to find out more about it. Without these organizations and parties u have only individual leftists screaming on internet forums about how all communist parties are "fake" or "reactionary" without actually doing something to promote or interest the people about Marxism in the area which results in 99% of the population having misconceptions and prejudice against communists. Trust me i speak out of experience in my own surroundings where there are almost no left wing groups. That is why i consider every meeting or whatever organized by KKE or any other organization good because at least it offers people an opportunity to learn about the left wing!

[ArisVelouxiotis]

I support KKE for uniting and promoting initiatives of the communist parties of Europe and meetings of the world communist parties. They are doing their best to unite the parties of the world and get them to talk for a mutual action which is good. Im also always happy when i see a communist party or an organization because they are keeping Marxism popular and if not at least getting people interested to find out more about it. Without these organizations and parties u have only individual leftists screaming on internet forums about how all communist parties are "fake" or "reactionary" without actually doing something to promote or interest the people about Marxism in the area which results in 99% of the population having misconceptions and prejudice against communists. Trust me i speak out of experience in my own surroundings where there are almost no left wing groups. That is why i consider every meeting or whatever organized by KKE or any other organization good because at least it offers people an opportunity to learn about the left wing!
KKE wanting to unite with other parties?Surely you must be joking.

[MaximMK]

http://inter.kke.gr/en/articles/The-INITIATIVE-of-Communist-and-Workers-Parties-of-Europe-was-founded/

This thing is formed on the initiative of KKE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meeting_of_Communist_and_Workers%27_ Parties

Also this which is a world meeting


Now i respect these things and the practical things like:



I participate on the class struggle of my town, I talk to workers in factories, I help in organising rallies and speeches, I guard factories on the days of strikes, I give away leaflets, I post posters etc.

This is what it means to be a communist. Maybe one day you ll figure it out yourself. :)



more than random blabbering on forums about someone being not revolutionary enough

[Durruti's friend]

Can your organisation gather so many people as KKE can IN ENGLAND?

What I mean is, your organisation in England comparing to what KKE does in England. I would def be suprised if it did.
Can your party gather so many people as the UK Conservative party IN GREECE?

I mean, if you measure some parties policies by how many people attend its events, you have some problems. By your logic, all Greeks should support New Democracy, SYRIZA or, hell, Golden Dawn rather than the KKE because they all have a larger electoral base and/or membership behind them.

Am I right? Or is there some special reason why only ML (or rather socdem) reformist parties apply to that rule?

[Delenda Carthago]

Can your party gather so many people as the UK Conservative party IN GREECE?


Really? Can the Conservatives gather this many people only in one city?

http://www.902.gr/sites/default/files/styles/902-original/public/Media/20131117/polytexneio-athhna-56_0.jpg?itok=kKW8Gzz5



Wow, I didnt knew that.:ohmy:


Am I right? Or is there some special reason why only ML (or rather socdem) reformist parties apply to that rule?

Oh, stop it you silly revolutionary.:o

[Durruti's friend]

Really? Can the Conservatives gather this many people only in one city?
Wow, you're playing the numbers game again! So innovative!

I kinda thought of speeches of party delegates since that's what the thread is actually about, but whatever, if it makes you feel better :)


Oh, stop it you silly revolutionary.:o
I'd like you to answer that question, really. Never mind my wording. Why does big numbers dick-measuring apply only to self-proclaimed communist parties?

[Delenda Carthago]

I'd like you to answer that question, really. Never mind my wording. Why does big numbers dick-measuring apply only to self-proclaimed communist parties?
I ll tell you why. Because to have pretty kewl ultra revolutionary ideas by yourself is the easiest thing in the world. You could be taking a dump on the toilet and thinking about ways for worldwide revolution in a minute.


But in real life, that dont matter. What matters is, to go out there and test your ideas with the criterion of action. There you can see whether your ideas can hold any weight or its just a bunch of bullshit that you use on an internet forum because you are bored and time wont pass away.

And on that field, KKE wins, you people lose. So why the fuck does anyone has to care about what you think? We are trying to have a revolution here, not outsmart each other on a forum...

[Durruti's friend]

I ll tell you why. Because to have pretty kewl ultra revolutionary ideas by yourself is the easiest thing in the world. You could be taking a dump on the toilet and thinking about ways for worldwide revolution in a minute.


But in real life, that dont matter. What matters is, to go out there and test your ideas with the criterion of action. There you can see whether your ideas can hold any weight or its just a bunch of bullshit that you use on an internet forum because you are bored and time wont pass away.

And on that field, KKE wins, you people lose. So why the fuck does anyone has to care about what you think? We are trying to have a revolution here, not outsmart each other on a forum...
So you're essentially saying that we should all join social-democratic parties because they are active (in something, you don't quite specify what) right now? Or maybe not even socdems, why shouldn't we get into GD or some of its counterparts? In the end, they are quite active too, especially as compared to the so called ultra-left.

My point being - you still didn't answer my question. The big numbers game can be used by everyone and it's as fallacious as it gets whenever it comes around. Numbers don't mean you're right. No, not even the glorious KKE.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I ll tell you why. Because to have pretty kewl ultra revolutionary ideas by yourself is the easiest thing in the world. You could be taking a dump on the toilet and thinking about ways for worldwide revolution in a minute.


But in real life, that dont matter. What matters is, to go out there and test your ideas with the criterion of action. There you can see whether your ideas can hold any weight or its just a bunch of bullshit that you use on an internet forum because you are bored and time wont pass away.

And on that field, KKE wins, you people lose. So why the fuck does anyone has to care about what you think? We are trying to have a revolution here, not outsmart each other on a forum...

The KKE is winning? How?

The only hope the KKE have of getting into political power in Greece is if they make another pact with the capitalists to get into the Greek Parliament like they've done before.

The fact is that there are really no genuine communist ideas that hold much popular weight beyond established leftist milieu across the globe.

Now, I choose to accept that and seek to understand why we are failing, and what we can do - as individuals and as groups - to change this.

If you want to sit back and deny the irrelevancy of the left, and bask in the glory of being the biggest fish in a puddle, then that's up to you.

[Delenda Carthago]

So you're essentially saying that we should all join social-democratic parties because they are active (in something, you don't quite specify what) right now? Or maybe not even socdems, why shouldn't we get into GD or some of its counterparts? In the end, they are quite active too, especially as compared to the so called ultra-left.

My point being - you still didn't answer my question. The big numbers game can be used by everyone and it's as fallacious as it gets whenever it comes around. Numbers don't mean you're right. No, not even the glorious KKE.
See, thats the thingy right there. I really, really, really dont care what you gonna do. :)
You.are.irrelevant. I expect nothing from people like you. Stay in your forums, keep bashing the "antirevolutionary" communists, and all that nice stuff. Meanwhile, life goes by for those that have the correct strategy. Keep dominating Revleft and hating anyone you dont like. Thats the best you can do.;)



Btw, for the record, not GD not anyone in Greece can gather that many people. The level of militancy of the Communist Party of Greece is on a next level.

[Delenda Carthago]

The only hope the KKE have of getting into political power in Greece is if they make another pact with the capitalists to get into the Greek Parliament like they've done before.

lolwut?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[reb]

Really? Can the Conservatives gather this many people only in one city?

http://elainemcnulty.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/jubilee-crowd.jpg

Or how about this?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/12/article-1213056-0666DB48000005DC-801_634x330.jpg

[Delenda Carthago]

Anyway,I got bored. This thing depresses the shit outta me. Keep doin what you doin amigos. Good job.;)


Byebye

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

lolwut?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

1989 Greek election. You party formed a coalition with New Democracy. Some principled communist party ,that is.

[Sam_b]

See, thats the thingy right there. I really, really, really dont care what you gonna do.


Trust me, I can easily be the biggest prick you 've ever seen. Dont make me go there.

So you're not going to "go there" after all then?

--

The answer about size being everything also makes precious little sense considering that SYRIZA appear to be much bigger than you. Now, I'm not saying to go and support SYRIZA, but this is the logical conclusion of where your argument is heading. That's before mentioning this line of enquiry that seems you have more loyalty to the KKE than you would to the concept of class itself.

[Delenda Carthago]

1989 Greek election. You party formed a coalition with New Democracy. Some principled communist party ,that is.
Yeah, I know. You mean when when it had to be a government so that the ex-prime minister Andreas Papandreou would be trialed for his participation in the Koskotas scandal and his responsibility wouldnt lapse. Right before 50% of the party splitted because of that descision? When the only person that took a ministry was Dragasakis, the actual leader of SYRIZA, who by 3 votes didnt become GS of the CC and -thank Marx- Aleka Papariga did. And after that all of the right wing left the party to join Synaspismos.


And all of that, while KKE denounced participation in a capitalist government last year, with Papariga as a prime minister, which was SYRIZA's proposition. And the new program, the one that I posted and you didnt even looked, states clearly that there is no chance of KKE participating in no capitalist government, no matter if its called "Left", "Anti-Mnemonioum" or whatever.



Yeaaah... You totaly diconstructed the party bro. Well done.;)

[Durruti's friend]

See, thats the thingy right there. I really, really, really dont care what you gonna do. :)
I ain't gonna do anything about the KKE. You're not that important as you imagine you are, nor do I care about social-democratic parties, especially about ones with a sphere of influence some 1000 km away from me. Why would I get nervous over some irrelevant wannabe SYRIZA?


You.are.irrelevant. I expect nothing from people like you. Stay in your forums, keep bashing the "antirevolutionary" communists, and all that nice stuff. Meanwhile, life goes by for those that have the correct strategy. Keep dominating Revleft and hating anyone you dont like. Thats the best you can do.;)That's just cute, y'know? You really are a person full of arguments. Like that brilliant argumentum ad populum shite. But don't worry, a lot of people use that line of reasoning, so it has to be correct.

And the KKE's "correct strategy" has lead us - as the working class, not KKE MP's - where?


Btw, for the record, not GD not anyone in Greece can gather that many people. The level of militancy of the Communist Party of Greece is on a next level. The level of militancy as in 'protests and pre-election rallies' ? Glorious.

Also, if I remember correctly, the infamously pulverized Greek anarchist movement was able to mobilize tens of thousands of people for the defense of some squats in Athens, so don't pull that card now, will you?


And all of that, while KKE denounced participation in a capitalist government last year, with Papariga as a prime minister, which was SYRIZA's proposition. And the new program, the one that I posted and you didnt even looked, states clearly that there is no chance of KKE participating in no capitalist government, no matter if its called "Left", "Anti-Mnemonioum" or whatever.
So... Capitalist government - yuk; capitalist parliament - yay?

[Delenda Carthago]

Why would I get nervous over some irrelevant wannabe SYRIZA?
Signature material!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh ::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[ArisVelouxiotis]

Signature material!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh ::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

You really make some impressive arguments don't you?