Is Britain ready for water cannon?

[blake 3:17]

Yikes , a more level playing field...

Is Britain ready for water cannon?

Water cannon are used in Northern Ireland and abroad – with varying degrees of brutality – but have never been deployed in Britain. So why are Boris Johnson and the police now talking about introducing them here?

link here: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/04/britain-ready-for-water-cannon-london

[Arlekino]

We are ready for stones, rotten eggs and tomatoes.

[Futility Personified]

Creeping authoritarianism notwithstanding budget cuts, they must be shitting themselves for the backlash against austerity (whenever that decides to happen). Though upping their ante to that degree is probably going to result in militants upping their own game, you'd hope at least.

[jamesx101]

During the 2011 riots, there were already calls for this sort of thing. Surprised it hasn't happened already yet.

[Buitraker]

We are ready for stones, rotten eggs and tomatoes.
That's the problem, the matter ain't about police equipment. The matter it's about who people are prepare for demostration.

If the protester are mentality prepare to face police, doens't matter who riot police act

[Sasha]

I dont mind them that much, makes the whole riot thing a lot/even more ritualized though. But as long as you stay mobile (which is always best anyways) you can run circles round them and they are not much of a problem.

[keine_zukunft]

it seems abit strange, protests in england never seem to get that heavy and i guess the riots was a unique event in history judging from what i saw a watercanon wouldn't be much use!

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

That's the problem, the matter ain't about police equipment. The matter it's about who people are prepare for demostration.

If the protester are mentality prepare to face police, doens't matter who riot police act

I really wish that were true.
While on one hand it's not like water cannons are particularly innovative, all of the piss and vinegar in the world is still not that same thing as tactics.

One learns very quickly that tactics make a big difference if one hasn't thought about them in terms of confrontations with police.

I don't mean this just to be a snarky rebuke - people's mental preparation and willingness to fight, to take the initiative, etc. are, I agree, very important. But, damn, having trained medics, tight affinity groups, knowledge of the "terrain", and knowledge of police weapons and tactics are all crucial for achieving any real goals. So, sure, police might step back and let a rowdy crowd break shit, and wait for an opportune moment to intervene, but breaking shit is not in and of itself a victory.

Getting back to the OP, I'd be curious to hear more reflections from folk who have experience with water cannons: What are their capabilities? When/why/how do police deploy them? How can they be dealt with?

[tallguy]

Creeping authoritarianism notwithstanding budget cuts, they must be shitting themselves for the backlash against austerity (whenever that decides to happen). Though upping their ante to that degree is probably going to result in militants upping their own game, you'd hope at least.
Yep, this is the reason. Give it a decade or two and it'll be live bullets. There's a war coming between the people and the elites. Bring the bugger on.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Shit, oakland cops have drone planes, a tank, and a siege tower "mobile police station". Get ready for it uk.

[Red Not Dead!]

Shit, oakland cops have drone planes, a tank, and a siege tower "mobile police station". Get ready for it uk.

Water cannon? Ha, piece of piss!
How would you fancy facing "Ten thousand troops armed with machine guns, tanks and a howitzer."
Think it beggars belief? Read some history...

On Friday, 31 January 1919 The British government used them against civilians in Glasgow, including large numbers of unarmed women and children. What despicable despotic tyrant would sanction such brutal tactics? Winston Churchill (and his all too, class conscious cronies) that's who.

"A 4.5 inch Howitzer was positioned at the City Chambers, the cattle market was transformed into a tank depot, Lewis Guns were posted on the top of the North British Hotel and the General Post Office, armed troops stood sentry outside power stations, and the docks, and patrolled the streets.They were deployed for a week, to deter any further gatherings."

And as we all know; those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it, first as farce, then as tragedy.

[Jambo]

Water cannon? Ha, piece of piss!
How would you fancy facing "Ten thousand troops armed with machine guns, tanks and a howitzer."
Think it beggars belief? Read some history...

On Friday, 31 January 1919 The British government used them against civilians in Glasgow, including large numbers of unarmed women and children. What despicable despotic tyrant would sanction such brutal tactics? Winston Churchill (and his all too, class conscious cronies) that's who.

"A 4.5 inch Howitzer was positioned at the City Chambers, the cattle market was transformed into a tank depot, Lewis Guns were posted on the top of the North British Hotel and the General Post Office, armed troops stood sentry outside power stations, and the docks, and patrolled the streets.They were deployed for a week, to deter any further gatherings."

And as we all know; those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it, first as farce, then as tragedy.

Interesting, I didn't know about this :blushing: Why were the troops deployed?

[RedAnarchist]

The German man referenced in the OP's article is now almost entirely blind thanks to German cops using water cannons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-dangers-of-water-cannon-blinded-german-man-tells-britain-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-as-other-countries-9134670.html

[Queen Mab]

Interesting, I didn't know about this :blushing: Why were the troops deployed?

Because Europe was in the middle of a revolution and the British government wasn't taking any chances of it spreading to here.

[Sasha]

@ tgdu; in my experience they are mostly used to disperse demonstrations/ crowds, after that they function as a umdamagable symbol for rioters to focus on, a police baricade on wheels, to bring a riot in a for the police predictable ritualized form.
They are very effective in preventing the building of barricades by the rioters, they force people to remain mobile which makes it hard, esp for first time/ inexperienced participants to form a cohesive strategy or a fixed mobilization point, so you have to adapt your riot tactics (which was needed anyway since they introduced ketling in the UK, to put it bluntly, wahtever the government claim these watercanons are not coming to deal with estate smash and loot riots or football hooligans, they come to deal with studentstrikes, sitdown actions, occupations etc)

[keine_zukunft]

they are kind of easy to deal with you have to remain mobile or use a banner to deaden the effect of the jets of water. which can be powerful.

[Sasha]

yeah, reinforced banners are a good tactic, you can use carpet and wood but thats very chunky and obvious, we now use scaffolding netting or heavy vinyl (optionally with rubber sewn in) combined with PVC pipes/tubes.

[Sasha]

no mention of watercanons yet but this does seem to be a useful guide to protest tactics (in the UK) http://earthfirst.org.uk/publicorderguide.htm

[Red Not Dead!]

Interesting, I didn't know about this :blushing: Why were the troops deployed?


Because Europe was in the middle of a revolution and the British government wasn't taking any chances of it spreading to here.

That's basically it in a nutshell.
The British Government were terrified of a "Bolshevik" type "revolution" occurring here (just over a year after that in Russia) and were terrified of it being "led by"/beginning on the "Red Clydeside."

The Wiki article on "Red Clydeside" ain't too bad. (Unfortunately/frustratingly cant post a link to it!)