Antideutsche

[cantwealljustgetalong]

seriously, what the fuck is up with them?

the irrationalist elements of certain leftcom and anarchist tendencies have always seemed to me to be closer to the romantic nihilism of fascists than the rationalism of orthodox Marxists, but the Antideutsche take it to a whole new level by supporting Zionism and American imperialism in the name of communism. they want to abolish all states, but Germany first and Israel last, and only if Israel decides to. why? because Jews need a state, and the Holocaust was the ultimate most symbolic crime in all of history.

not to minimize the Holocaust at all, but as symbolically ultimate as it might seem within Jewish and western culture, it was not the first nor, the last, nor biggest, nor the most complete genocide in history of humankind. the Jews were not the only targets of the Nazis, although they were a central target in propaganda and in reality. I consider it in poor taste, and naive, to try to rank tragedies in history. it is beneath the human dignity of the victims of each event to attempt to measure and compare the ethical evil of one event over another. each genocide will share in some features but will ultimately be incommensurate. the Holocaust was awful, but to claim that it was uniquely awful is problematic.

all this before mentioning the actual horrific crimes they sign off on in the past and present. they celebrate the firebombing of innocent Germans at Dresden, since the whole population was guilty of instituting the secret genocide. their support for Israel and American foreign policy as some kind of leftist statement is beyond my comprehension, especially during the last voracious decade.

although they behave like autonomous anti-fascists, they support objectively oppressive and reactionary projects. I don't understand why the left tolerates this kind of thing. perhaps they don't want to be branded anti-Jewish, a problem I don't have I guess because I am of Jewish heritage. personally, I think all nationalists of colonial settler states should be restricted to OI, including all manner of Zionists and American imperialists.

[Rosa Partizan]

I will write something about it later, but let me say beforehand that most Antideutsche don't consider themselves communist at all.

[Per Levy]

the irrationalist elements of certain leftcom and anarchist tendencies have always seemed to me to be closer to the romantic nihilism of fascists than the rationalism of orthodox Marxists, but the Antideutsche take it to a whole new level by supporting Zionism and American imperialism in the name of communism.

are you trying to say that die antideutschen are in the ultra-left spectrum of things? cause if you do you you'd be wrong, neither their history nor their theory comes from ultra-left traditions.



they want to abolish all states, but Germany first and Israel last, and only if Israel decides to. why? because Jews need a state, and the Holocaust was the ultimate most symbolic crime in all of history.

yeah the why is the big question, youd think that people who are so high on critical theory might would be critical of weird dogmas but that is the irony of things i guess.

edit:
I will write something about it later, but let me say beforehand that most Antideutsche don't consider themselves communist at all.

really? most antigerman texts/magazines i've read did claim that they are indeed communists and most anti-germans i've met also considered themselfs commies.

[cantwealljustgetalong]

are you trying to say that die antideutschen are in the ultra-left spectrum of things? cause if you do you you'd be wrong, neither their history nor their theory comes from ultra-left traditions.

A-D tend to take their tactics and aesthetics from autonomism. and certainly there is an overlap between their embrace of the reactionary conclusions of the Frankfurt school and the leftcom fetish of pessimism towards the working class as revolutionary social agent. I find myself with a lot of leftcom sympathies, so I don't say this stuff lightly as an attempt to distance myself from them. I don't think their resemblance to leftcoms means that they are consistent communists in any meaningful sense.

and I am curious to hear how Fem…World will respond. maybe you can make this make sense for me. I had been reading some articles by 'communist' A-D that were making my brain hurt.

[Rosa Partizan]

are you trying to say that die antideutschen are in the ultra-left spectrum of things? cauGermanis you do you you'd be wrong, neither their history nor their theory comes from ultra-left traditions.




yeah the why is the big question, youd think that people who are so high on critical theory might would be critical of weird dogmas but that is the irony of things i guess.

edit:

really? most antigerman texts/magazines i've read did claim that they are indeed communists and most anti-germans i've met also considered themselfs commies.

Really, dude? I know plenty of them, at least like 30 or 40, only 3 of them consider themselves communist, and in German leftist boards most are like, um, well, no, being anticapitalist is structural antisemitism. Which, of course, can be the case with some leftists, but not per se.

[Sasha]

God, not this thread again, anti-deutsche as in the Bahamas tradition are outside some very specific context completely irrelevant by now, we have disscused them already ad naseum (use the search function), don't give them anymore attention and they will fade into history.

[PhoenixAsh]

As I remember the basis of anti-Deutsche ideology is Karl Liebknecht's criticism of state and nation. They are not a homogeneous group though. And some may be communist but most aren't since the ideology also states the German working class can not be relied upon by the revolutionary left to emancipate itself.

[keine_zukunft]

oh guys the hardline zionist idf army loving anti-deutsch never take to the streets in an autonomen style ever really, due their obsession with critical thought and so would be critical of mass mobis. the supposed anti-d antifa groups are softcore and still are very much LEFT WING whilst the bahamas crowd who are all in their 40's are post left ideological critics. i think having a critical eye anti-imperialist politics and bizarre anti-cap politics is no bad thing. most of the israel soli/softcore kids you will see on antifa demos dont really support the gov of israel and support the occupation, they just think israel in some form or another has the right to exist. also most german left comms and people you will find in autonome centres will be against Germany!!

[DOOM]

My problem with them is, that they see the world in this binary pattern. Israel vs. Palestina, Serbia vs. the rest etc. and they only support one side, the other side is bad hurrr duurrr.
This way of thinking is just wrong.

[Devrim]

the irrationalist elements of certain leftcom and anarchist tendencies have always seemed to me to be closer to the romantic nihilism of fascists than the rationalism of orthodox Marxists,


The organisational and political roots of this current are actually in Marxism-Leninism and certainly not in either left communism or anarchism. Support for capitalist states is completely alien to both of these currents whereas Maoists have often take up positions of support for various 'oppressed nations'. It doesn't need a shift in theory for these sort of groups to end up supporting the Israeli state, just a shift in the analysis of which nations are oppressed.

Devrim

[Sasha]

personally, I think all nationalists of colonial settler states should be restricted to OI,

Damn, there go all the maoists, stalinists and such...

[Rosa Partizan]

oh guys the hardline zionist idf army loving anti-deutsch never take to the streets in an autonomen style ever really, due their obsession with critical thought and so would be critical of mass mobis. the supposed anti-d antifa groups are softcore and still are very much LEFT WING whilst the bahamas crowd who are all in their 40's are post left ideological critics. i think having a critical eye anti-imperialist politics and bizarre anti-cap politics is no bad thing. most of the israel soli/softcore kids you will see on antifa demos dont really support the gov of israel and support the occupation, they just think israel in some form or another has the right to exist. also most german left comms and people you will find in autonome centres will be against Germany!!

this conforms entirely to my observations. The people spending their time in autonomous venues are very critical of Germany and its authorities, and most of them are at least for Israel's right to exist, which does NOT make them Antideutsche. You can talk with them critically about Israel's politics without being considered an antisemite. Many Israel flags at Antifa-demonstrations are not held up by exclusively Antideutschen, but by people who know that this is the ultimative way to provoke Nazis. Some of them take their provocations pretty far...

http://www.die-wahrheit-fuer-deutschland.de/AllesGute.jpg

however, I really can't stand that "Opfermythos" either. And Bahamas is pretty "outdated". Who reads this nowadays? I like Jungle World, they also have some antideutsche authors and journalists, but it's nothing compared to Bahamas. However, I'm kinda annoyed by their habit to link everyone and anything to Israel and post articles about the relationships between Israel and xy, like they did with Mandela some weeks ago.

[keine_zukunft]

this conforms entirely to my observations. The people spending their time in autonomous venues are very critical of Germany and its authorities, and most of them are at least for Israel's right to exist, which does NOT make them Antideutsche. You can talk with them critically about Israel's politics without being considered an antisemite. Many Israel flags at Antifa-demonstrations are not held up by exclusively Antideutschen, but by people who know that this is the ultimative way to provoke Nazis. Some of them take their provocations pretty far...


however, I really can't stand that "Opfermythos" either. And Bahamas is pretty "outdated". Who reads this nowadays? I like Jungle World, they also have some antideutsche authors and journalists, but it's nothing compared to Bahamas. However, I'm kinda annoyed by their habit to link everyone and anything to Israel and post articles about the relationships between Israel and xy, like they did with Mandela some weeks ago.

exactly i think there's a certain amount of mythology surrounding the anti-germans outside of germany. people might need recognize that there's a difference between israel soli antifa groups and actual antideutsche groups. bahamas quite correctly has been alienated from the movement as a whacky magazine. yeah jungle world is good!!

[Rottenfruit]

they are crazy, they are fanatical Zionists, i put them in the batshit insane strand of communism that should never have existed like third world maoism

[DOOM]

they are crazy, they are fanatical Zionists, i put them in the batshit insane strand of communism that should never have existed like third world maoism

What do you mean by radical zionism? Zionism is the idea of an Israeli state and this idea has been realised.
So supporting Israel isn't really zionist - I don't think there's even a word for supporting Israel.
However, yeah there's a shitload of radical antideutsche, who support Israel unconditionally. But then again, that's just a small part of the antideutsche, and the antideutsche movement itself is just a small part of the left. Really, most of the ideas, like "anti-germanism" (german as an ideology), critics of anti-imperialism/anti-americanism and pro-israelism (I'll just call it that way), have already been implemented by the german mainstream left community.

[motion denied]

I don't think there's even a word for supporting Israel.

Oh, there are many. 'Vile reactionary piece of shit' comes to mind.

[DOOM]

Oh, there are many. 'Vile reactionary piece of shit' comes to mind.

You seem to be mad.

[motion denied]

You seem to be mad.

You seem to be an apologist for ethnic cleansing.

[DOOM]

You seem to be an apologist for ethnic cleansing.

Oh sure, I'm also a rape apologist and I eat babies for lunch.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

The most amusing thing about the antideutsche is how they pride themselves on their "anti-nationalism", when their entire ideology rests on a form of German exceptionalism that borders on self-parody. Of course, they think Germany is evil whereas the average NDP goon thinks it is good and noble. But they still evaluate everything from a nationally limited German, rather than an internationalist perspective. Their support for Israel is merely one example of this - they aren't looking at how the existence of Israel affects the local workers, merely how it affects German nationalists and neo-Nazis. I mean, I could use the same sort of "logic" to support Milošević because, hey, the ustaše hate the guy (sometimes).


Oh sure, I'm also a rape apologist and I eat babies for lunch.

Well you don't seem awfully perturbed by the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Israel, or particularly opposed to it.

[DOOM]

The most amusing thing about the antideutsche is how they pride themselves on their "anti-nationalism", when their entire ideology rests on a form of German exceptionalism that borders on self-parody. Of course, they think Germany is evil whereas the average NDP goon thinks it is good and noble. But they still evaluate everything from a nationally limited German, rather than an internationalist perspective. Their support for Israel is merely one example of this - they aren't looking at how the existence of Israel affects the local workers, merely how it affects German nationalists and neo-Nazis. I mean, I could use the same sort of "logic" to support Milošević because, hey, the ustaše hate the guy (sometimes).



Well you don't seem awfully perturbed by the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Israel, or particularly opposed to it.
First of all, what do you mean by ethnic cleansing? You must be cautious with using that phrase. I'm from Bosnia, a place where ethnic cleansing expelled in just 4 years over a million bosnians, and where the Srebrenica Massacre claimed over 8000 muslim lifes, in just a few days. Using "ethnic cleansing" as a catchphrase is really disrespectful. Then I would like to see a proof for ethnic cleansing in Israel, since I'm not very informed on this topic.
However, I totally oppose the settler movement and some Israeli policies.

[Goblin]

First of all, what do you mean by ethnic cleansing? You must be cautious with using that phrase. I'm from Bosnia, a place where ethnic cleansing expelled in just 4 years over a million bosnians, and where the Srebrenica Massacre claimed over 8000 muslim lifes, in just a few days. Using "ethnic cleansing" as a catchphrase is really disrespectful. Then I would like to see a proof for ethnic cleansing in Israel, since I'm not very informed on this topic.
However, I totally oppose the settler movement and some Israeli policies.

The UN has called Israel's actions against Palestine ethnic cleansing:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/uk-palestinian-israel-un-idUKBREA2K1JM20140321

[DOOM]

The UN has called Israel's actions against Palestine ethnic cleansing:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/uk-palestinian-israel-un-idUKBREA2K1JM20140321
Umm no, Falk did. The UN is no homogenous organization with just one opinion

Richard Falk, United Nations special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, told a news conference that Israeli policies bore "unacceptable characteristics of colonialism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing".
However, accusing Israel of apartheid is also very wrong. I don't see how one can compare israeli policies to the south-african apartheid.
And didn't Falk compare Israel to Nazi-Germany?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

First of all, what do you mean by ethnic cleansing? You must be cautious with using that phrase. I'm from Bosnia, a place where ethnic cleansing expelled in just 4 years over a million bosnians, and where the Srebrenica Massacre claimed over 8000 muslim lifes, in just a few days. Using "ethnic cleansing" as a catchphrase is really disrespectful. Then I would like to see a proof for ethnic cleansing in Israel, since I'm not very informed on this topic.

Here is how a prominent, previously pro-Zionist socialist described Israeli policies: http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html


However, I totally oppose the settler movement and some Israeli policies.

But support Israel. Which is like saying you support the Spanish State but oppose all that garroting business.

[DOOM]

Here is how a prominent, previously pro-Zionist socialist described Israeli policies: http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html

Can you write that with your own words, or quote the major points, please? It's just a huge text and I don't see how a text, that was written in 56' explains the ethnic cleansing in 2014.


But support Israel. Which is like saying you support the Spanish State but oppose all that garroting business.
Umm no it's not?
I see the Israeli state as a consequence of the holocaust; untill there's antisemitism in our society(and there's a fucking shitload of it), a state Israel is needed to protect the holocaust survivors. And that's why I support the state Israel. The sole abolition of Israel is just anti-semitic nonsense.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Can you write that with your own words, or quote the major points, please? It's just a huge text and I don't see how a text, that was written in 56' explains the ethnic cleansing in 2014.

Take an almost random section, for example:

«But the blackest part of the true story is still to come. It was only in the first period that it was official Zionist policy to frown on the flight. They were still under the influence of the lip-service which they had been used to giving to the idea of Jewish-Arab friendship; the flight had been unexpected; but they were not too slow in reorienting. Within three months after Deir Yassin, the official Haganah forces themselves were driving the Palestine Arab population out of their native villages, towns and cities, like cattle.

Referring to the flight, “Dr. Weizmann …. spoke to me emotionally of this ‘miraculous simplification of Israel’s tasks’ ...” reported US Ambassador McDonald (an active Zionist propagandist) in his book. [49] (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n49) The flight was greeted as a “miracle” by more than Weizmann; and like other pious people, they had no objection to helping the miracle along.
By August 1, Foreign Minister Sharett was saying that “the Palestinian Arab exodus of 1948 is one of those cataclysmic phenomena which, according to the experience of other countries, changes the course of history.” While Israeli soldiers were driving innocent Arabs out of their homes, the government was already making clear that it would be a long while before any of the refugees were allowed back.


The New York Herald Tribune’s war correspondent Kenneth Bilby, in a book remarkable for the general impartiality of its tone, says, after relating that at Haifa the Zionists urged the people to stay:


Not until the war had swung noticeably in favor of the Jews and the pressure of the Jewish immigrant inflow had begun to exert itself did Israeli government policy change. Then those civilian Arabs who fell into the army net were not only permitted to depart: they were encouraged. And the borders of Israel closed to the refugees, except for a few family categories. [50] (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n50)

(http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n50)
Likewise Jon Kimche, in the British Zionist organ which he edits:
But after the first period of fighting, the Palestine Arabs were no longer encouraged to stay; on the contrary: they were “encouraged” to leave Lydda and Ramleh, and later, towns like Beersheba. [51] (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n51)

(http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n51)
The quote-marks around “encouraged” give way to a franker formulation in Kimche’s book:


Ramleh and Lydda fell on the 13th [July]; and a flood of 60,000 panicky Arabs were compelled to take the road to the nearby Arab lines. This was no Haifa. The Jews no longer hoped the Arabs would stay. They had tasted the benefits which the earlier Arab policy of evacuation had bestowed upon them. [52] (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n52)

(http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n52)
Which means that the 60,000 people were expelled. There had not even been a pitched battle with Arab forces (let alone the civilians), because the Arab Legion had withdrawn without a fight. The people were simply driven out, to make the towns Araberrein and provide property for incoming Jews to expand into. Among the people expelled were refugees from Haifa and Jaffa. This was done by the Haganah, not by Irgun. [g] (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#ng)

(http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#ng)
But although the Arab Legion had already withdrawn, here is Bilby’s description of how the Israeli troops entered Lydda. It is the only such passage in Bilby’s book, which has been favorably cited by Zionists as source to disprove other Arab charges of atrocities:


The ring around the twin cities [Lydda and Ramleh] was now complete.
At dusk one evening an Israeli jeep column took off from the Lydda airport and raced into Lydda, with rifles, Stens, and submachine guns blazing. It coursed through the main streets, blasting at everything that moved. The town toppled in panic. I went into Lydda the following day with Major Yeruhant Cohen, brigade intelligence officer, and the corpses of Arab men, women, and even children were strewn about the streets in the wake of this ruthlessly brilliant charge. Civilians who had been trapped by the Jewish encirclement cowered behind shuttered windows; white flags were draped from every home. [53] (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n53)

(http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#n53)
The reader must keep in mind that many Arab inhabitants who survived the submachine guns, and were merely driven out onto the open road, are among those who were punished for becoming “absentees” by laws which stripped them of their “abandoned” property.


In 1949 Hal Lehrman wrote in Commentary (December):
Now that I’ve traveled every corner of this country , it has become clear that the Israeli troops must have been decidedly tough even with non-combatant Arabs during the war. There are, for instance, too many dynamited, desolated native villages where little or no fighting ever occurred. The Jews simply came in and smashed the place, often sparing only the mosques ... it is obvious, too, that the Israelis – themselves surprised by the scope and speed of the Arab exodus – did an extra-thorough job of destruction to make sure that the Arabs would have nothing to come back to. There is no evidence that this was official government policy, but it certainly must have been in the minds of many local commanders ... Looting was not too zealously repressed either. No less an authority than the present Speaker of the Knesset, Joseph Sprintzak, has been quoted as saying that the looting of Arab homes and shops was a major defeat for the new government of Israel.
Then, after referring to the Deir Yassin massacre, Lehrman asks “Were there other outrages?” and quotes a UN observer as saying, yes. [h] (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1956/xx/tragedy.html#nh) And he continues:


I am more shaken by the expressions of grief and shame I have privately received from non-political but prominent Israelis whose personal integrity is beyond question. “The Israeli soldier has looted, burned, and slaughtered,” I have been told, “and it is no comfort for us that soldiers of every other army do likewise.” It is even hinted that certain officers actually ordered their troops to let themselves go. The best evidence that there were atrocities – and, I suppose, the best apology for them, if such things can be apologized for – came to me from a high-ranking veteran of the Jerusalem siege. “Our soldiers,” he said, “were no worse than the Americans or British. They were even better ...”


But the question we are interested in here is not the moral superiority of the Haganah looters and perpetrators of atrocities over Americans or British, or vice versa, but in a far simpler one: Many Arab peasants against whom the looting and atrocities were committed, and who were driven out or who fled in fright, were later robbed of property and land and had a military government imposed over them [I]because they fled or were driven out – i.e., because they left their habitations as a result of or in fear of such atrocities – and this was done not by Haganah soldiers but by the parliament and government of Israel. This was the real atrocity.»

And in the case of Israel, ethnic cleansing isn't just something that happened in the past and that's it. There is still a substantial population of Palestinian refugees and Arabs living under military rule, as a result of the ethnic cleansing in the late forties and the early fifties, as well as subsequent Israeli actions.


Umm no it's not?

It is, in fact, exactly the same. You can't divorce an abstract "state" from the concrete policies of the government - or rather, you can, but then you are no longer doing Marxist analysis. Socialist oppose the settler regime in Sri Lanka, for example, not because we hate the Sinhala, but because we oppose settler regimes in general, whether they are Sinhala, Croatian, French or Jewish. No settler regime gets a plenary indulgence because "their" ethnic group is good, noble or an eternal victim.


I see the Israeli state as a consequence of the holocaust; untill there's antisemitism in our society(and there's a fucking shitload of it), a state Israel is needed to protect the holocaust survivors. And that's why I support the state Israel. The sole abolition of Israel is just anti-semitic nonsense.

This is AD nonsense of the worst sort. First of all, the Israeli colonial project predates the Holocaust. Second, Israel is probably the least safe place for the Jews to be, at the moment, and this is hardly accidental. Third, the genocide of the Jews doesn't give some self-appointed "Jewish" authority carte blanche to invade and cleanse an ethnically mixed region of the world.

I mean, think about the consequences of your attitude. The Roma were also victims of a genocide, and today they face racism that far exceeds antisemitism, in Europe - state goons aren't going to take away the child of a Jewish couple for not looking Jewish enough, for one thing. Would it be alright for some self-proclaimed Romani authority to invade a completely unrelated portion of the globe - India for example - and kill and expel the existing population? Like hell it would.

Fourth, don't conflate Holocaust survivors with settlers - although some certainly were settlers, and they form by far the most sympathetic group of settlers, there were others who despise Israel and everything it stands for. Living in Yugoslavia, you might have met some of them.

[keine_zukunft]

hardline antideutsche are post left man and so are not communist!! they are just ideological critics they do not exist outside of their lecture theatres really these days. and outside their support for israel they have actually made some good contributions to marxist critical theory that is undeniable! i think the theory isn't really a full blown support of israel but an acceptance of the existence of israel as a place where jews can live free of anti-semitism, yeah it's not perfect and has done alot of bad things like many states. there is alot of anti-semitism here in europe notably eastern europe. however israel shouldn't be free from criticism either.

[BIXX]

hardline antideutsche are post left man and so are not communist!! they are just ideological critics they do not exist outside of their lecture theatres really these days.


Ok, I have put all the parts that are wrong I have emphasized.

The antideutsche are not post-leftist. Also, post-leftists can be communist (I don't think I am, but I was a post-left anarchist communist for a while).

To the italicized: do you mean the antideutsche people or post-left folks? If you mean the post-leftists you are wrong. If you mean the antideutsche then I'm not as sure, but I'm convinced that you're wrong there as well.

[keine_zukunft]

Ok, I have put all the parts that are wrong I have emphasized.

The antideutsche are not post-leftist. Also, post-leftists can be communist (I don't think I am, but I was a post-left anarchist communist for a while).

To the italicized: do you mean the antideutsche people or post-left folks? If you mean the post-leftists you are wrong. If you mean the antideutsche then I'm not as sure, but I'm convinced that you're wrong there as well.

the HARDLINE antideutsche are post left ideological critics now. whilst the softcore still define as communist. there's a difference between like i said before with antifa groups who have an israel soli agenda and actual hardcore antideutsche adherents who are against mass actions which is was referring to etc. ok maybe post comm a certain of the old antideutsche scene has gotten into shit like karl popper. the softcore ad's and those who are in the antifa movement whilst may support israel on a rudimentary level are also critical of the state's policy as well and also to be against germany in germany doesn't necessarily mark you out to be antideutsche.

[Sasha]

I assume that with "post-left" you just mean "not leftists anymore" as the political line of Bahamas etc is way closer to neo-conservativism (who notoriously also contain several ex-leftists, mostly trots) than with "post-leftism" as how its usually used; http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy

I think this is just a Babylonian confusion here going on.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I assume that with "post-left" you just mean "not leftists anymore" as the political line of Bahamas etc is way closer to neo-conservativism (who notoriously also contain several ex-leftists, mostly trots) than with "post-leftism" as how its usually used; http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy

I think this is just a Babylonian confusion here going on.

I think part of "post-left" in this context, as opposed to "not leftists anymore", is that the Antideutsche (in my very, very limited contact) seem to still lean heavily on a theoretical framework that leans heavily on a warped reading of critical (in the sense of critical theory) Marxism.
In some ways, it seems there is some overlap with post-left anarchy insofar as it features a sort of rehabilitation of certain aspects of liberal thought that have, to a degree, always been present (as a sort of tension) within the left. In post-left anarchism as in antideutsche, these aspects are elevated as the 'rational kernal' (or the anti/irrational kernal, depending on who you ask) that holds they "key" to liberation.
In a way it's not surprising that snitches like Bob Black, imperialists like Moishe Postone, etc. all end up so similar despite their particular stylistic fixations.

[Rottenfruit]

Antideutsche are such hypocrites, they are against nationalism in Germany but then support a state with one of the most nationalistic policy in the world, Its really hypocritical to be oppose nationalism in one country and then support nationalism in another