Fairtrade...

[The Children of the Revolution]

(There may have already been a thread devoted to this but hey, let's debate some more!)

Fairtrade organisations aim to guarantee a better deal for farmers of the third and developing world. They are paid a "fair" wage for their work and the products are then sold abroad. Of course, these products are more expensive - and so haven't really caught on yet. They tend to be promoted in schools or in certain weeks of the year; people buy some coffee, think they've done their bit and forget about the plight of Africa or Latin America.

But is it a good idea, or does it give people an excuse to ignore the larger issues at stake? The way I see it, Fairtrade legitimises capitalism and "wage slavery". The farmers may recieve more pay, but they are still forced to sell their labour in order to survive!

So should Communists participate in this process? Which is the greater evil here?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Well I would say it is a good idea. Everything you buy is going to a capitalist. I am assuming that you are not entirely self-sufficient and you must buy things. I would see it more acceptable to buy from people that pay their people a fair wage, than those that are known for their abuses. Also it shows that you advocate change...a nke symbol is one of oppresion of the worker, fair trade is for the workers, working alongside a system set out to make their lives a misery. If you must buy, don't be one of those once a year people, and make fairtrade a daily thing.

This Thursday at the local highschool there is an exibition, and I was thinking how can I raise awareness, which is still low amongst 12-16 year olds...so I have got 800 people's worth of free samples (more than are likely to be at school) courtesy of the co-op and will have also borrowed traidcraft goods on a sale or return basis. By screaming...free chocolate, fairtrade I am assuming I will get an influx of kids who are naturally inquisitive, at least some of them. The best thing is that I will be effectively putting the nestle vender out of business for a day, whilst raising awareness.

The tea and coffee is of decent quality, and I cansee it easily being adopted by the staff. It may be law soon anyway if we reach the target of becoming the first certified fairtrade island.

Off the poin but in summary, it is a better idea, it is practical and can be done now.

[The Children of the Revolution]

The tea and coffee is of decent quality


Hey, it's all good quality! Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying it was bad... Some of the chocolate is really good too!



I would see it more acceptable to buy from people that pay their people a fair wage, than those that are known for their abuses. Also it shows that you advocate change...a nke symbol is one of oppresion of the worker, fair trade is for the workers, working alongside a system set out to make their lives a misery. If you must buy, don't be one of those once a year people, and make fairtrade a daily thing.


This is absolutely correct... But like I said, even if one buys 'Fairtrade' products all year round, there is the temptation to ignore the other issues in these countires - the massive debt they are forced to pay off rather than investing in education or infrastructure; or the huge AIDS epidemic currently engulfing Africa.

I think Fairtrade should be actively promoted by the Government alongside other policies - increased investment in the Third World, larger proportion of GNP going towards aid and suchlike.



This Thursday at the local highschool there is an exibition, and I was thinking how can I raise awareness, which is still low amongst 12-16 year olds...so I have got 800 people's worth of free samples (more than are likely to be at school) courtesy of the co-op and will have also borrowed traidcraft goods on a sale or return basis. By screaming...free chocolate, fairtrade I am assuming I will get an influx of kids who are naturally inquisitive, at least some of them. The best thing is that I will be effectively putting the nestle vender out of business for a day, whilst raising awareness.


A big round of applause for comrade "hegemonicretrobution"!!! Seriously, my congratulations. Let us know how the day goes!!

[praxis1966]

Hegemonic: You remind me of me when I was in high school. I remember I caused quite a row when I decided in my senior year I wasn't going to stand up for the national anthem or pledge of allegiance anymore. I believe it aggrivated many of the faculty of staff (if not insulted), not least of whom was the director of the Marine Corps JrROTC.

At one point the 'Colonel', as his cadets referred to him, decided to dress me down in the middle of the halway in the middle of class change. Unbeknownst to me, and according to him, I was in a position of leadership on campus due to the fact that my father was one of the school's assistant principals. I yes sir no sired my way through the lecture and managed to get away unscathed. I did not change my behavior, however, but instead walked away hoping that I was in fact a leader and that perhaps maybe others would follow. They didn't, but I felt pretty important for a minute.

In any case, let us know how your little escapade goes. I do believe it important to support better standards of living for average workers while at the same time winning the hearts and minds, to borrow a piece of military rhetoric, of the people around us.

[sXe]

The fact that there is a wage structure identyfies my main concern with fairtrade.

The wage structure is the way the bourgeoisie exploits us proletarians, ie we produce millions of $'s of profit for them, yet we see only a tiny fraction of that. The wages system is intrinsic to the capitalist system.

Only by eliminating the wage structure are we truly free.

You see?

:D

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 01:17 AM
Hegemonic: You remind me of me when I was in high school. I remember I caused quite a row when I decided in my senior year I wasn't going to stand up for the national anthem or pledge of allegiance anymore. I believe it aggrivated many of the faculty of staff (if not insulted), not least of whom was the director of the Marine Corps JrROTC.

At one point the 'Colonel', as his cadets referred to him, decided to dress me down in the middle of the halway in the middle of class change. Unbeknownst to me, and according to him, I was in a position of leadership on campus due to the fact that my father was one of the school's assistant principals. I yes sir no sired my way through the lecture and managed to get away unscathed. I did not change my behavior, however, but instead walked away hoping that I was in fact a leader and that perhaps maybe others would follow. They didn't, but I felt pretty important for a minute.

In any case, let us know how your little escapade goes. I do believe it important to support better standards of living for average workers while at the same time winning the hearts and minds, to borrow a piece of military rhetoric, of the people around us.
Oh god I have been there, in my GCSE year I was constantly in trouble for poster campaigns, online revolts and the such. Looking back I see that I might have achieved more by taking a more relaxed attitude like I do now when dealing with any institution. However I like to think I kept the spirit alive, and younger years may follow on...I have a sister that is already heavily involved, not very pollitical but dedicated to all her causes.

I just feel strongly about fair trade, and knowing how kds can be fussy about their diets, and can latch onto things, it is a perfect way of reducing apathy.

[Rasta Sapian]

Yes, fair trade is a really good system&#33; Trading resources (primarily coffee) for there equal or fair trade market value&#33; Independant farmers can now trade there product for equal value, which is much higher than the amount payed by larger corperations, who intend to exploit the farmers as much as possible, corperations, like: starbucks, duncun donuts, and tim hortans. <_<

A couple years ago, my cousin & her husband backpacked down to mexico and guatamaula with some friends. They met with local farmers and established fair trade agreements,

Once back in canada, they opened a coffee shop selling exclusively fair trade coffee, great coffee, where the profits could be equally distributed to the farmers&#33;

my cousin also set up trade relations with many other local cafes and grocery stores&#33;

So yes, buy fair trade products&#33; :)

p.s. in regards to fair trade in a communist system, i donèt think it would apply, considering the wealth would be distribuited equally to the society, not to an individual or individuals.

[Nordic Rebel]

Here in in Finland the fair trade goods are gainig popularity and allmost all well stocked shops have them. My family usually chooses fair traid goods when they are availabe.

[mentalbunny]

The teachers have fair trade coffee in their common room, and sometimes our tuck shop sells fair trade chocolate, but I never have any money to buy chocolate anyway.

On a similar note, with help from some friends I managed to persuade the school to switch from factory farmed pork, eggs and chicken to free range equivalents. It depends on suppliers but by the end of term we should have found something&#33; i&#39;m pleased with that.

I&#39;ve got a really good headmaster, so as long as I don&#39;t do anything too disruptive it&#39;s ok. My main problem is actually the other pupils, who are mostly very conservative.

Coming back to the point of this thread, I think that Fairtrade is a good idea, for all the reasons that hegemonicretrobution put down. Oxfam have a lot on it, check out their website (there&#39;s a thread on it in Websites).

[dopediana]

fair trade is a beautiful idea. it shouldn&#39;t matter that the money just goes to capitalists. as we&#39;re all part of the global economy which is currently capitalist, it can&#39;t be helped and we have to help underrepresented peoples deal with it better. what&#39;s also great about fair trade is that it applies to mainly small businesses and farmers who haven&#39;t let their lands and products be consolidated with those of big corporations who have only exploitation and self-benefit in mind. their produce tends to be primarily organic with no genetically modified crops.

so this is the good you do for the world:

-you boycott large corporations
-you support small business
-you show solidarity with underrepresented people of the world who spend their entire lives getting fucked over
-you get good food that hasn&#39;t been tampered with

[Ortega]

I agree with ATP on all of that. There&#39;s not much more I can say. The world&#39;s economy is capitalist, and until we can change that (or if we can ever change it) we might as well support fair trade&#33; It helps out poor farmers, and even boycotts big business.

I don&#39;t see anything wrong with it.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Sorry to bump this thread but today was fantastic: I can&#39;t hide my excitement so may as well vent it here :). Tradecraft goods were on sale, and co-op offered free samples of goods (not allowded to trade because they are a profit making organisation). The old school nurse who is held in very high esteem because she is soo chatty (there with Christian Aid) came round every lunch table witha plate of various chocolates and talked to the kids. 100&#39;s (in a school of just under 1000) filled out leaflets requesting information and lobbying Gordon Brown to alter fair trade rules.

Tommorow morning I am taking some of the pictures of tyhe day enjoyed by all and posting them in the school publication, all major news outlets on the island, and through the co-op and christian aid. This idea has educated nearly 1000 people, given them all experience, broken stereotypes and entertained. It may also be followed up when I talk to the heads of other schools...if anyone would like to try it I am sure I can send a pack to you.

Further implications; because of all the "right" people being there; it will now, at least very possibly, feature in the syllabus for; PGE, English, General Studies, and any other topic that studies morality..as well as economics and world developement and politics.

The school will take part in fair trade days/weeks and as well as repeat performances, a regular stall, slow intergration into lunches and literature being available....the vending machines I hated so much may soon be stocking fairtrade alternatives, I wioll find out when I get a phone call tonight.

This has been one of the best days of my life, it has helped me forget some of my problems, or at least put them in perspective. So I appologise if that made no sense but I am tying faster than I am capable of.

Oh yer Everyone should try this, before trying anything else, it will get results and improve the lives of millions of workers.

[The Children of the Revolution]

<Round of Applause>

Nice one comrade&#33; :)

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

ATP is spot on.

Fairtrade is a very important thing which we must help. You say in the first post that peopel buy a jar of coffee or whatever and they think they have done good for the world. That is true about some people, but we must all try and buy goods through fair trade organisations. It&#39;s not too hard just to look in the fruit section for fair trade labels, Tesco has lots of it. And they aren&#39;t that much more expensive. Yes, they are more expensive than the really cheap Tesco value goods, but if a poor student like myself can pay the little extra for fairtrade goods, then I&#39;m sure most people can.

It&#39;s also vital to help charities to spread their word to people and to help them represent themselves at summits etc. Make Trade Fair for example (link in my signature) handed over one million signatures to the WTO last September to put pressure on the leaders to act on unfair trade. Funding these charities by donations or buying merchendise can also go a long way to helping fair trade.

[mentalbunny]

Well done hegemonicretrobution, that&#39;s great news. You&#39;ve been amazing&#33; Congrats again and keep us posted as to how things are progressing.

[Guerilla22]

I really support the fair trade goods system, because this system does not allow for example coffee growers in Latin America to be exploited by big businesses in the capitalist market.
Believe it or not leaders in Latin America, even Castro have been calling for such a system for quite a while now, the US just didn&#39;t want to hear anything about it. To tell you the truth I don&#39;t even know if such programs exist within the US government, because I&#39;ve only have seen these products in Europe and Canada.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 09:54 PM
I really support the fair trade goods system, because this system does not allow for example coffee growers in Latin America to be exploited by big businesses in the capitalist market.
Believe it or not leaders in Latin America, even Castro have been calling for such a system for quite a while now, the US just didn&#39;t want to hear anything about it. To tell you the truth I don&#39;t even know if such programs exist within the US government, because I&#39;ve only have seen these products in Europe and Canada.
Thank you all, for your kind words, and again I must stress the fun to be had running simple days like this, it will make you feel as proud as you thought possible.

Guerilla22: If you are looking in America there are goods available..I think even Starbucks now offers a fairtrade alternative. However a simple websearch will tak you to sites that name the nearest places in your area, if you P.M. me I will see what I can find out. It is really just a case of checking things out and finding who is who and whereabouts they are.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I am against free trade in principal. The solution is not to boybott big businuss and support small businuss. Small businusses today are the big businusses of tomorrow. I think we should strive to bring back the old socialist bloc and trade exclusively in it, and trade UNFAIRLY. Each region should have it&#39;s ecomony governed by the comintern (something Krushchev tried to do). Trade should be on the basis of need, not value. If the Marxist paradigm "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" can&#39;t be done on the individual level, then we should at least achieve it on a nation-to-nation level.

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by hegemonicretrobution+Jan 31 2004, 01:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hegemonicretrobution @ Jan 31 2004, 01:14 AM)
[email protected] 30 2004, 09:54 PM
I really support the fair trade goods system, because this system does not allow for example coffee growers in Latin America to be exploited by big businesses in the capitalist market.
Believe it or not leaders in Latin America, even Castro have been calling for such a system for quite a while now, the US just didn&#39;t want to hear anything about it. To tell you the truth I don&#39;t even know if such programs exist within the US government, because I&#39;ve only have seen these products in Europe and Canada.
Thank you all, for your kind words, and again I must stress the fun to be had running simple days like this, it will make you feel as proud as you thought possible.

Guerilla22: If you are looking in America there are goods available..I think even Starbucks now offers a fairtrade alternative. However a simple websearch will tak you to sites that name the nearest places in your area, if you P.M. me I will see what I can find out. It is really just a case of checking things out and finding who is who and whereabouts they are. [/b]
Ok thanks, well I wouldn&#39;t have known that since I don&#39;t usually go to starbucks, but I am going to definitely go there now and ask for the fair trade alternative. If you know of anywhere else that offers this please let me know.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 01:14 AM
Gueriilla22: If you are looking in America there are goods available..I think even Starbucks now offers a fairtrade alternative. However a simple websearch will tak you to sites that name the nearest places in your area, if you P.M. me I will see what I can find out. It is really just a case of checking things out and finding who is who and whereabouts they are.
Unfortunately, Starbucks is owned by Zionists. Not even for Fair trade will I stoop so low as to aid any Zionists.

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by Socialsmo o Muerte+Jan 31 2004, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Socialsmo o Muerte @ Jan 31 2004, 06:57 PM)
[email protected] 31 2004, 01:14 AM
Gueriilla22: If you are looking in America there are goods available..I think even Starbucks now offers a fairtrade alternative. However a simple websearch will tak you to sites that name the nearest places in your area, if you P.M. me I will see what I can find out. It is really just a case of checking things out and finding who is who and whereabouts they are.
Unfortunately, Starbucks is owned by Zionists. Not even for Fair trade will I stoop so low as to aid any Zionists. [/b]
Starbucks is also the apitamy of capitalism, which is why I try to boycott places like Strabucks and Wal-Mart. In Ontario I have seen fair trade shops, that carry nothing but fair trade goods. I would love to see some of those shops here in the US.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I agree and never use starbucks myself. However I do think that if people are going to use these places, they may as well use the fairtrade alternatives. I have spent a long time boycotting everything, and believe me change is the best option. Unless we can all get sorted and revolt, and lets face it we would argue ideological differences for a long time afterwards, we can improve what we have in as many ways as possible. A cultural revolution, change the very society we hate into one we love.

If there was only a starbucks where I lived I would have coffee ordered in and consumed at home. If there are alternatives that don&#39;t offer fairtrade then I will pressure them and meanwhile do the boycott thing while I wait.

The truth is people are going to drink at starbucks. Yes I dislike them, but if they are offering fairtrade to their customers then at least a very small proportion of the producers will have a living wage. That place probably sells more fairtrade coffee than most other outlets combined. If that was shut down there would be problems. Fairtrade won a victory there, and until it becomes stronger it can not afford to go without the support of evils such as starbucks.

Gueriilla22: I PM&#39;d back with a few tips about getting it into your area, common sense really but it is a sollution to suit all.

[mentalbunny]

Whenever I go to starbucks (which is rarely, as I try to boycott them, it&#39;s only due to pressure of friends who i don&#39;t want to lose that I go) I always ask for fairtrade. They only do it in a cafetiere, and it causes such a cafuffle because hardly anyone drinks it&#33; Haha&#33;&#33;

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 12:24 PM
Whenever I go to starbucks (which is rarely, as I try to boycott them, it&#39;s only due to pressure of friends who i don&#39;t want to lose that I go) I always ask for fairtrade. They only do it in a cafetiere, and it causes such a cafuffle because hardly anyone drinks it&#33; Haha&#33;&#33;
I find it so amusing :lol: At costas which is the only coffee place really on the island, I always ask for the most confusing drink ever, and add fairtrade onto the end.

[Hegemonicretribution]

An update, the school is ordering tradecraft&#39;s fair trade "geo bars", and they should be in school by next term. They are also looking into the use of fair trade ingredients as far as possible. I will post some pictures when I have finished the press release.

[mentalbunny]

My housemistress&#39;s husband wants to talk to me about having a Fair trade tuck shop in the house. it&#39;s sounds good, but he&#39;s a really disorganised guy, good intentions but nothing to back them up, if you know what I mean, so I&#39;m not sure how great it will be.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I am sure it will be great, as long as other people are involved.

If you go on the tradecraft site they will send you a free catalogue with all their stock. Ordering is easy and you can make it a regular thing. I am sure it wouldn&#39;t take much. Good to see things are happening all over.

My dream would be to co-ordinate a fair trade day next year at schools all over Britain. I am just starting the links with England now, but I am sure that with the internet, and lots of advanced warning, there could be a national campaign in place for next year.

[mentalbunny]

He&#39;s got a catalogue already. I&#39;ll let you know how things go.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Thanks, and the very best of luck. :)