Why is sport appealing to you?

[Kill all the fetuses!]

I used to be a huge fan, but when I became politically conscious I stopped having any interest in much of the sports. I think it partly happened naturally, but it was partly aided by my recognition that I had nothing to with the team I supported. It was just some abstract idea without anything continuous to back it up in reality - players, staff, coaches etc. etc. change all the time and have very little to do with me, mostly people even support teams from different countries.

In fact, I don't think that being a fan of a sports team is substantively different from being a patriot/nationalist, in either of these cases you back up an abstract idea. The one might be more harmful than the other, but substantively they seem very similar to me. Ultimately, I see spectator sports as a huge distraction from more important issues.

In case there are any fans among you - why is sport appealing to you? What sort of rationalization do you give to yourself to like it? Or you give none? Is it entirely unconscious decision? Would love to have a discussion on the subject.

[tuwix]

IMHO it's the way to manage a testosterone. This hormone leading to conquests and fight. We realized that fight can be harmful then we invested our emotions in sportsmen to fight instead of us. IMHO thi is why sport is so appealing. :)

[AmilcarCabral]

tuwix: I think that one of the main goals of putting too much emphasis in competitive sports (like baseball, basketball etc) in most high schools and universities is really none other than to physically exhaust students, in order to dumb them down and to destroy their book-reading habits and intellectual abilities. I love weight training because we are our bodies and our bodies are our selves, and leftists should be physically strong. but an excess of physical exercise, leads to over-training and is an impediment for any type of intellectual labor like book-reading.

Aristotle said that if you choose to be a full time athlete, you have to stay away from any activity that requires lots of concentration like medical science, law etc, and devote yourself totally to that specific athlective activity (baseball, football, weight-training etc). And if you'd rather be a poet, writer, philosopher, doctor, lawyer, economist, astronomist you have to stay away from engaging in any full time athletic and sports activities.

Aristotle claimed that the human body doesn't have the energies for humans to devote themselves to hard sports and hard intellectual professions at the same time. Either you do one or the other.

You know baseball, football is really fun and it gives young people a high, it kills boredom, gives them a sense of well-being and self-power. But I think that high schools at the same time should also devote extra hours for activities like philosophy, and literature. However book-reading requires a lot of discipline. And many people do not have that discipline to concentrate for a half hour on a book, specially in this world full of stress and economic problems


.



IMHO it's the way to manage a testosterone. This hormone leading to conquests and fight. We realized that fight can be harmful then we invested our emotions in sportsmen to fight instead of us. IMHO thi is why sport is so appealing. :)

[roy]

In fact, I don't think that being a fan of a sports team is substantively different from being a patriot/nationalist, in either of these cases you back up an abstract idea. The one might be more harmful than the other, but substantively they seem very similar to me. Ultimately, I see spectator sports as a huge distraction from more important issues.

In case there are any fans among you - why is sport appealing to you? What sort of rationalization do you give to yourself to like it? Or you give none? Is it entirely unconscious decision? Would love to have a discussion on the subject.

You touched on this but obviously supporting a team isn't the same as supporting the state. It's pretty innocuous in comparison to the apparatus that allows capitalism to function. As far as distraction goes, you can be a rugby fan and still try to address important issues. I don't think people are so much distracted as they are disempowered. I know a lot of people who hate sport categorically and are the farthest thing from social justice campaigners, not that I think there's a causal relationship either way.

Having said that I'm mostly apathetic when it comes to sport. When it comes to the sport that I do like I watch it sometimes because I'm into it irl and I do it for my fitness. In any case I get where you're coming from, but I reckon any problems associated with sport like violence between fans, macho crap, etc. are symptomatic of society as a whole.

[Kill all the fetuses!]

You touched on this but obviously supporting a team isn't the same as supporting the state. It's pretty innocuous in comparison to the apparatus that allows capitalism to function.

My point wasn't to compare these things in terms of the harms they produce; I obviously concede that a nationalist is more harmful than a sports fan. My point was to point out that they a qualitatively similar, i.e. that in both cases you cheer for and support some abstract idea, which doesn't manifest itself in reality in any meaningful way. To an extent that it manifests itself in players, coaches etc. I am quite sure that if all players from Barcelona (or whatever) moved to Madrid Real then the fans would still support the same teams, because they support the idea behind that team.

I am asking this, because it seems to me a rather irrational thing, a huge distraction if you may; and since people at this forum have analysed all the aspect of society from a leftist perspective and very well understand all the manifestation of capital, I thought I might get some insights.

And I do recognize that being a sports fan doesn't necessarily impair your ability to an activist or whatever - this forum is a proof of that. I am more interested in the psychological aspect of it - what makes you be a sports fan? Why exactly do you support this team and not that one? How do you rationalize the whole thing?

[Ocean Seal]

It distracts me from the grim realities of politics, and I've always been a numbers geek so I like stats and naturally play fantasy sports.

[Marshal of the People]

I hate sport. I think it is silly and boring.

[IWantToLearn]

I like to think of myself as someone who is a fanatic of the sport and not of a team, i support an specific team if i believe it offers the best entertainment teamplay, dribbles, etc. And i can also enjoy a match where my team is not playing.

When i play it it helps to distract me from stressing situations and maintain my health. I agree with you that it may distract you from important stuff but if you use it with caution is does more good than bad imo.

[Jambo]

I hate sport. I think it is silly and boring.

This is my position also.

The importance placed on sport and particularly football in this country annoys and concerns me. It is 'bread and circuses' a grand or aggrandized spectacle (nothing in reality that grand about 22 blokes kicking a ball round a field) that serves to distract people from important issues. It is also divisive, with fans of different teams using this as a basis for disliking and even harming each other (also helps to reinforce the evils of nationalism and patriotism come World Cup time). Additionally the amount of money involved is disgusting with people and in particular kids being raised with footballers as role models and being taught to find it acceptable that they should be paid £200,000 or £300,000 a week when I will have to work hard all my life to afford a house worth less than half that. Its ok though, these people have a real talent and they should be rewarded for it.... Where as you can be a good, compassionate, moral, decent contributing member of society all your life and still struggle to spare enough money to buy a ridiculously overpriced football shirt or match ticket. It also saddens me that seemingly the only time a large section of grown men will talk at any length or with any emotion or passion is when discussing football. The whole thing disgusts me and I could rant on and on, but I won't.

So what's the psychology behind all this I dunno I'm not a psychologist. Do people see that it is just a grand distraction from reality or do they just want some escapism and distraction from their hard working lives and all the apparently insurmountable problems of the world. Do people just want something to believe in or to feel like they belong to something greater than themselves? (Standing in a stadium surrounded by 50,000 roaring Geordies almost makes you feel like you do in some pseudo religious way) I dunno but I'm sure I'm not the only one who see's how ludicrous the whole football industry is. I know I've focused on football but most other sports are just as bad.

Sport as a fun social activity and a means to keep fit and healthy is fine but the sports industry is terrible and I won't even start on the gambling.

[Thirsty Crow]

I hate sport. I think it is silly and boring.
Have you ever tried it yourself?

I like some sports. It's fun to watch and I admire the skill and technique exhibited (even though it's a skill that is definitely not practical in conducting one's life; it's a game-skill). For instance, I have, let's say, skill-sets and kinds of play based on them that appeal to me for some reason - so say Minnesota Timberwolves, man Kevin Love, the guy can pass the ball like a point guard (especially those long passes after a defensive rebound, most commonly to Brewer who slams it home), play inside, and shoot from distance. Ricky Rubio is a terrific passer while Kevin Martin's got that physically awkward jump shot move which is kind of unique. In other words, versatility means dynamic play means I like it. I also sympathize with T-Wolves since they had immense bad luck last season which put the team development way back (Love's injury primarily).

So, yeah I guess enjoying yourself while watching games is a kind of a distraction though I don't identify myself as a rabid fan or anything (and yes this dimension of sport is fairly annoying). I also enjoy playing bball myself.

EDIT: I also think there is this curious, let's say, aesthetic dimension to sport games not that dissimilar from literature and music in fact.

[motion denied]

"Sports distract people from the important issues", "panem et circenses"

This sounds patronising as fuck. Fuck off.

And this coming from people who spend whole lot of time on the internet, ludicrous.


sports industry is terrible and I won't even start on the gambling.

There you go.

[#FF0000]

Aristotle claimed that the human body doesn't have the energies for humans to devote themselves to hard sports and hard intellectual professions at the same time. Either you do one or the other.

Yeah that's a ton of bullshit -- one can be physically and athletically adept as well as intellectually and artistically adept. I think the most damaging thing to students is the idea that they have to specialize and fill a role -- kids who weren't athletically inclined get to feel good and superior with the whole "brains over brawn" mode of thinking while kids who are athletic and struggling academically get to feel good and superior for being athletic and strong. Both are dumb attitudes because everyone can and should work on their weaknesses and be on that warrior-poet path.

Either way, to the OP, I like sports and think you can support teams and still recognize that it's not a big deal one way or the other. I got really into basketball a few years ago once I started learning about the players, the histories, the stories behind the teams, and that ended up turning last year's NBA Finals into some apocalyptic battle of good (San Antonio Spurs) vs. Evil (Miami Heat) for me.

There's also something to be said for the fan-culture of a certain team, I think. That's a big part of why I like a lot of the soccer teams I do.

[Jambo]

"Sports distract people from the important issues", "panem et circenses"

This sounds patronising as fuck. Fuck off.

And this coming from people who spend whole lot of time on the internet, ludicrous.



There you go.

1. No, I won't fuck off.
2. How do you know how much time I spend on the internet and you are on here as well.
3. What do you mean 'There you go'?

I don't want to have a lame internet forum argument because its not what I'm here for. I'm always up for a proper discussion though. If anything I've said is naïve or arrogant or patronising I'm happy to have this pointed out to me and reassess my views. I just don't think you telling me to fuck off is particularly constructive. I'd be interested if you wanted to expand on what you meant by 'There you go' and share your own thoughts on sport but thats entirely up to you of course.

[A Psychological Symphony]

They're fun? I don't rationalize to myself why I enjoy it because that seems like a ridiculous approach to having fun. Not everything has to have a political motive; some things are pure entertainment.

[Sabot Cat]

I'm a huge fan of Quidditch; I'm rooting for the Fitchburg Finches against the Sweetwater Sweethearts in the upcoming US League Cup. I have no clue why anyone likes Quodpot, which really doesn't have the strategy or complexity of Quidditch.

[BIXX]

I have done many sports, primarily wrestling, boxing, and kickboxing.

They don't make me dumb (where the fuck did Aristotle get that?), and I don't have to go one way or another, despite what Aristotle said.

He also believed some people were just naturally slave-y, so I think Aristotle is for the most part full of shit.

[Wonton Carter]

It bugs me when people think that your entire life has to be about politics. Yes, I'm extremely politically-minded, but for god's sake, I have other interests so I don't get completely burnt out.

I grew up around baseball. My dad tried to teach me it a lot when I was young, and my grandfather was a diehard Cubs fan (the C is even engraved on his tombstone). I can play it fairly well despite being completely unathletic otherwise. I also watch it from time to time.

[Kill all the fetuses!]

Guys, I think you sort of missed my question. I do recognize that not everything must be about politics and there's a need for entertainment. My question was what makes the whole spectator sports appealing? I am not even asking about enjoying sports per se, if I haven't made myself clear enough, I am asking why would you support a specific team, which is absolutely arbitrary as far as it goes, most of the time.

Many/most of the sports' fans support their teams regardless of whether they are athletic, regardless of how the team is doing, regardless of the players in that team... Why would you do that?

[BITW434]

I have no problem playing football or cricket down the park with my mates, or watching my own town's team play occasionally. Through sport I've kept healthy and met a lot of cool people. But does that mean I like the fact top level sport has turned in to a money making machine? Of course not.

[Wonton Carter]

Guys, I think you sort of missed my question. I do recognize that not everything must be about politics and there's a need for entertainment. My question was what makes the whole spectator sports appealing? I am not even asking about enjoying sports per se, if I haven't made myself clear enough, I am asking why would you support a specific team, which is absolutely arbitrary as far as it goes, most of the time.

Many/most of the sports' fans support their teams regardless of whether they are athletic, regardless of how the team is doing, regardless of the players in that team... Why would you do that?

My apologies.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. There's just something about watching and playing baseball that I like. The reason I support my team is because when I visited the city they're based in, I enjoyed it. People were very friendly and of the 4 cities my partner and I visited, it was the most enjoyable city. So because of our love of that city, we decided to follow its team.

[Queen Mab]

Spectator sports are like a soap opera or a novel. You watch it for the storyline, the drama, the plot-twists, the heroes and villains, the moments of genius. The (constructed) reality of everything gives it more emotional force.

As for why you support a team, I think it's just comes down to tribalism. Many people enjoy subsuming themselves into a greater whole .

[BornDeist]

Is there really a discussion on this? Yes greed today plays a big role on sports. That's capitalism not the sport itself. I guess exercising is bad too? Just because a sport seems silly to you means it should be abolished? Some people think the internet is silly. I ran cross country and played football in high school and I loved it. Competition is not inherently a bad thing. Everything is bad in proportions. Even today I've put hundreds of dollars into tickets and other things to see my favorite club. Who wants to live in a society where everything people enjoy is abolished?

Come On You Spurs!

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I fucking love sports and I think oft people make a much to about nothing in regards to the whole thing, over-analyze everything from a outsider POV and perpetuate buzzkillery and wet-blanketism. For example, my love for the NFL, I have no real stake in Seattle, I don't live there but they're my team and I want to see them win and the thrill and ups/downs of the game are genuinely exciting due to this emotive connection I have with the team aka the fan-team relationship, which is what it comes down too, fandom. Which is to say, if you don't like sports then of course yous gonna say some stupid shit about it and not "get it," just like I don't get the Walking Dead or neckbeards. I like seeing hot, talented dudes do athletic wizardry on my weekends, who cares.

I also think the great majority of the theories surrounding sports and sport fanship truly hilarious.

[Prometeo liberado]

Did y'all know that Albanian baseball was played with a frozen ball of shit and a stick?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Does everyone know that in Albania baseball was played with a frozen ball of shit and a stick?

How decadent and avant-garde.

[Sea]

IMHO it's the way to manage a testosterone. This hormone leading to conquests and fight. We realized that fight can be harmful then we invested our emotions in sportsmen to fight instead of us. IMHO thi is why sport is so appealing. :)That can't be right. I'm uber-manly (ubermenschly?) and I hate sports.

edit: spellcheck things I meant "lumbermen". that's how macho i am.

[Prometeo liberado]

How decadent and avant-garde.

That silly Hoxha, didn't he know tricks were for kids?

[ZvP]

To me, the popularity of sports makes perfect sense. It's real, unscripted entertainment that has no impact on the real world. It's an escape, just like art or music. It is a demonstration of immense skill that most people could only dream of possessing, even if those skills are not useful in a practical sense. The appeal of rooting for a team, even if that team is just an abstract idea, comes from our desire to be a part of something. Being around a bunch of people who all want the same thing (victory for their team) is refreshing and brings people together for a change. There are no "good" teams or "bad" teams, you root for who you want to root for without having to worry about ideology or choosing the "right" side. It's a harmless outlet for so many of our most basic instincts, and that's why it's such a big deal. I find it really troubling how some people, especially in intellectual or artistic circles, act so condescending towards athletes and sports fans. We are all just primates, after all.

[Art Vandelay]

I fucking love sports and I think oft people make a much to about nothing in regards to the whole thing, over-analyze everything from a outsider POV and perpetuate buzzkillery and wet-blanketism. For example, my love for the NFL, I have no real stake in Seattle, I don't live there but they're my team and I want to see them win and the thrill and ups/downs of the game are genuinely exciting due to this emotive connection I have with the team aka the fan-team relationship, which is what it comes down too, fandom. Which is to say, if you don't like sports then of course yous gonna say some stupid shit about it and not "get it," just like I don't get the Walking Dead or neckbeards. I like seeing hot, talented dudes do athletic wizardry on my weekends, who cares.

I also think the great majority of the theories surrounding sports and sport fanship truly hilarious.

Same with me and the Miami Dolphins. I don't know any other Miami Dolphins fans (minus my ex, who is only one cause I was), my country has our own (shitty) football league, the dolphins haven't even been a very good team for the entire time I've followed them, etc...and yet I'm a phins fan. When I try to trace it back, as to why I'm a dolphins fan, I think it stems from liking the movie ace ventura when I was young and Dan Marino had a cameo in it. I haven't missed a game since '07, the year we (yes WE) went 1-15 and don't plan on it anytime soon. I also tend to watch the blue jays alot, but I can never last a full season cause they're so long and its always the same story over and over. Having said that, growing up watching Doc Holliday pitch every 5 games, was a treat. I mean why does there have to be a reason for liking to watch sports? Its simply enjoyable, even as much as the dolphins make me doubt that from time to time.

Anyways I'm just going to leave this here for some reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kShJAEODWMc

[Jimmie Higgins]

IMO, the only problem with "competition" is the way the concept is conflated with market and labor competition to justify aspects of capitalism as inherently part of "human nature".

I don't really follow pro teams much - mostly a time thing and the way that it's become harder and harder to actually watch teams on TV because of broadcasting rights and restrictions on playing home games, etc.

I think a lot of what the OP talked about is the way current sports as an industry work and the way it's been divorced from a sort of "home team" municipal thing to just another business like anything else. This causes a lot of frustration among fans, but sports media is good at pointing the blame at a handful of millionaire sports-stars who act "uppity" (i.e. they are from poor backgrounds or black and have the audacity to want to be happy that they suddenly have more money than probably anyone else they know) and ignoring the billions and billions of the owners who also hold the contracts, get municipal subsidies, and are the ones stripping the "local" team of anything that resembles "localness".

Politically I think all aspects of commercial entertainment are fascinating because of all the ways class and power intersect: how actors or sports stars can be from working class families and bring that in; how people working class communities love/hate or identify with a certain blue-collar connotation of certain teams or whatnot; how the industry side both undermines and then tries to re-create brand loyalty/identification; how cities and owners use public funds or tax breaks for film production or sports stadiums, etc.

Sports creates a lot of tension because people only want the "use value" of a local team - entertainment, some personalities to identify with, an expectation for "pure" sports... but the business side undermines this with pressure to make athletes dope and take any (un-ethical) measures to compete, use fan loyalty as a selling point to then move a team or sell a player, etc. When we have a bigger and more rooted movement, we seriously need to figure out how revolutionaries can relate to some of this and counter the bigotry and elitism and nationlism in the explanations handed out by the sports media.

[RedAnarchist]

The only sport I really follow is football (also known as soccer), and I mostly follow Liverpool, who are one of the biggest teams in England and Europe. I admit I get dragged into the obsessive fan stuff a lot, even though the team I support is full of multi-millionaires. I even support England and Ireland internationally, although there's a certain section of "Ing-er-lund!" fans who are just disgustingly nationalistic, but I see international teams as just another club to support (plus, England are shit and usually overachieve by getting to the quarter finals before being knocked out).

I've liked football since I was a child, and whilst I might be one of those who gets angry or excited when my team loses or wins, I know at the end of the day it's just a game.

I have wanted to get into other sports (including "hand egg" - one of my relatives emigrated to Pittsburgh to be a steel mill worker, so I tried to get into following the Steelers, but it's a boring sport to me) such as ice hockey or basketball, but none so far giv me the same kind of buzz that football does.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Sport is fantastic. Playing it instils a whole load of positive personal values (if done in the right way), not to mention it's just great fun and personally rewarding.

I've thought about the resemblances between supporting a sports team and nationalist sentiment, but rationalised it by concluding that my sports team plays a game, it doesn't bomb other countries or whatever. And I just avoid being any sort of 'ultra' - I support my team but I can admit when John Terry or Jose Mourinho have been a dick etc. I also think that, whilst thinking the culture/identity of one country is better than another is stupid, there are legitimate social/cultural differences between clubs that make it possible to prefer one club over another (I could never, for example, stand to be in a room full of Spurs or Liverpool supporters).

[theuproar]

I love sports, and I grew up on sports, as my father is a football and track coach. As I got older, though, I began to resent most professional sports, because it is such a stark example of wealth disparity.

I compete internationally in sambo (самбо) wrestling, though... The one thing I love about this sport, in particular, is that there are no true professional athletes. Some become coaches, or make the crossover to other combat sports, but ultimately the motivation to compete is not money.