Jon Stewart.

[ola.]

I hope this is the appropriate subforum to post this thread. Anyways, I'm curious: what do you guys think of Jon Stewart, and his show, his politics? Personally, he gets me cracking up, sure, but politically... well, he's no help as a liberal, to put it as nicely as I can. What about you guys? How would you judge him?

[Skyhilist]

I don't agree with his liberalism, but at least he's a liberal who's capable of calling other liberals out for being fucking stupid.

For example: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/01/21/jon_stewart_mocks_obamas_nsa_speech_privacy_import ant_until_we_decide_it_isnt.html

So yeah in short, I think he's pretty funny, though not quite as funny as Colbert. He does make the occasional subtly transphobic comment though (both of them do), which is of course deplorable and not to be encouraged.

[Sinister Intents]

I hope this is the appropriate subforum to post this thread. Anyways, I'm curious: what do you guys think of Jon Stewart, and his show, his politics? Personally, he gets me cracking up, sure, but politically... well, he's no help as a liberal, to put it as nicely as I can. What about you guys? How would you judge him?

For me personally I think Jon Stewart is as bad a liberal as Bill Maher. Though Jon is a lot funnier and I used to watch his show when I was a reactionary. The liberalism pushes me away and the prejudiced garbage pisses me off, but overall the show is funny.

[Sentinel]

I havent wathed too much of it, but it's imo perhaps the best american late night show that is broadcasted here in Sweden. He seems like a left liberal who opposes red scare tactics etc; I usually appreciate his jokes on that kind of topics.

But if he is a transphobe that is of course despicable, I wasn't aware of that.

[Sabot Cat]

I used to love his show back when I didn't realize he was a transphobe and believed him when he described himself as a kind of socialist (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-in-2000-interview-i-would-say-im-more-of-a-socialist/) during the tumultuous period where the United States had been subject to a terrorist attack and had a unified Republican government dead-set on waging a more aggressive neoliberal war on the developing world.

But now, I don't really follow it anymore. I still think he's more likable and funnier than the likes of Daniel Tosh or Bill Maher or what have you, but eh.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

His a liberal but I love hims. :wub:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=1398&pictureid=11557

[The Intransigent Faction]

I used to watch The Daily Show, but haven't for a while now. He seems to have his moments and is just as capable of mocking Democrats as mocking Republicans, but in the end he's a liberal, though far from the worst.

Also, in his ridiculing of both parties, he paints a lot of people as incompetent or just crazy, which can be good for a laugh...even if it masks the real issues.

[Skyhilist]

For the record, I don't think Stewart or Colbert actively dislike transgender people, it's just that they don't do a very good job of making sure that any subtle prejudices that have perhaps been ingrained into them subconsciously (or others doing the writing) don't sneak into the language during their shows. In other words they need to be less obtuse to be able to recognize transphobic language when they see it in the scripts and then make it clear that it's unacceptable to the writers of such things.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

I love both his and Colbert's show and watch it every night.

[Sabot Cat]

For the record, I don't think Stewart or Colbert actively dislike transgender people, it's just that they don't do a very good job of making sure that any subtle prejudices that have perhaps been ingrained into them subconsciously (or others doing the writing) don't sneak into the language during their shows. In other words they need to be less obtuse to be able to recognize transphobic language when they see it in the scripts and then make it clear that it's unacceptable to the writers of such things.

Casual transphobia is still transphobia, and also, I don't think you can claim that he's unaware of what he's doing when his show is scripted. By multiple writers. And then aired on national television. Over, what, a decade and a half?

I simply think that they have reactionary views about trans people, and if you can point me to just one interview or comment that'd directly suggest otherwise, I'm all ears.

[adipocere]

He's ok, though the sheer volume of government officials they parade on his show is irksome. I was pleased at how both of the shows have been generally sympathetic to some of the labor struggles - inviting union leaders and reps onto the show and so on - but for every union rep there are 100 govt officials and policy wonks.

[adipocere]

Casual transphobia is still transphobia, and also, I don't think you can claim that he's unaware of what he's doing when his show is scripted. By multiple writers. And then aired on national television. Over, what, a decade and a half?

I simply think that they have reactionary views about trans people, and if you can point me to just one interview or comment that'd directly suggest otherwise, I'm all ears.
There is also a good bit of regular sexism as well, mostly in the more-vicious-than-is-necessary use of vulgar language concerning female genitalia.

[Skyhilist]

Casual transphobia is still transphobia
Of course it is, and I'm not condoning it, just trying to explain it.


and also, I don't think you can claim that he's unaware of what he's doing when his show is scripted. By multiple writers. And then aired on national television. Over, what, a decade and a half?

No I think he knows what the words are that are coming out of his mouth, he just doesn't understand that they have transphobic implications because he's probing the language of the jokes in terms of "what's funny" rather than scanning them for prejudiced language, so when it's something subtle that's transphobic, he might be less likely to pick up on or perceive that it's transphobic, especially when people get far more shit comparatively for saying something racist or sexist than they do for transphobia. Again, I'm just trying to explain why this might happen; I'm not saying that's ok and I think that he needs to start specifically probing the language of the scripts to make sure that no transphobia is present, or maybe even have a transgender activist due so because they'd likely be much more perceptive on that issue having most likely faced transphobia themselves.


I simply think that they have reactionary views about trans people, and if you can point me to just one interview or comment that'd directly suggest otherwise, I'm all ears.

Eh I personally haven't seen much evidence that they actively dislike transgender people, so I think the evidence points to the fact that they just need to do a better job of watching for language that is subtly transphobic. Stewart, for example, seemed to defend Chaz Bono (the transgender man who appeared on some dancing show): http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-27-2011/areola-51

[Future]

I watch both The Daily Show and The Colbert Report fairly regularly. Jon Stewart is a huge letdown for me because I think he's generally a reasonable person - he would make a great socialist and his voice would help bring millions of working class youth into class consciousness. But nope...he's just a liberal. A liberal that criticizes liberalism, but a liberal nonetheless. All that said, I do enjoy his comedy for the most part and his show is often a good source of the news.

Colbert's show is pretty hilarious. Colbert is a liberal reactionary with conservative leanings, but the way he makes fun of Republicans in the US is unquestionably enjoyable.

[Sabot Cat]

Of course it is, and I'm not condoning it, just trying to explain it.

I don't think you're condoning it. :)



No I think he knows what the words are that are coming out of his mouth, he just doesn't understand that they have transphobic implications because he's probing the language of the jokes in terms of "what's funny" rather than scanning them for prejudiced language, so when it's something subtle that's transphobic, he might be less likely to pick up on or perceive that it's transphobic, especially when people get far more shit comparatively for saying something racist or sexist than they do for transphobia.

I don't buy it. He has whole transphobic bits, that are in no way innocuous, and are pretty consistently awful.

Here's an incomplete list:

1999: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-february-16-1999/headlines---sequin-ye-shall-find (Because evidently Roberta Close doesn't look attractive somehow?)

2002: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-22-2002/i-d--freely (Start at 2:06, which is the nadir of his transphobia)

2003: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-july-22-2003/queers-vie-for-the-straight-tie (At 2:30, evidently a trans court justice is just soooo crazy and mockable, amirite people?)

2006: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-december-18-2006/episcolypse-now (At 1:00, haha, tr*nnies!)

2008: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-30-2008/illegally-blonde at 3:30; http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-march-19-2008/the-govs-must-be-horny---alabama 1:30



Again, I'm just trying to explain why this might happen; I'm not saying that's ok and I think that he needs to start specifically probing the language of the scripts to make sure that no transphobia is present, or maybe even have a transgender activist due so because they'd likely be much more perceptive on that issue having most likely faced transphobia themselves.


I doubt the would even have the presence of mind to do that much.


Eh I personally haven't seen much evidence that they actively dislike transgender people, so I think the evidence points to the fact that they just need to do a better job of watching for language that is subtly transphobic. Stewart, for example, seemed to defend Chaz Bono (the transgender man who appeared on some dancing show): http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-27-2011/areola-51

See the video links. And I have yet to see a trans woman interviewed on his show. Maybe he changed his ways in the last six years. It's possible. Maybe he's realizing that he can't use trans people as a pinata anymore, especially when it comes to privileged, well accepted white men like Chaz Bono. But he could at least apologize for the past stuff. He could do something to make it better. At least when Gabe of Penny Arcade was called out as transphobic, he donated to an LGBT charity. Did he learn anything? Probably not, but that's more money for that charity, at least. I haven't seen Jon do anything comparable, and considering how consistently transphobic Stephen Colbert is in the show that Jon executive produces, I just don't think he cares about us enough not to participate in the oppression.

[KurtFF8]

*Moved to learning*

[Skyhilist]

I agree that those things are explicitly transphobic. And they aren't ok. But compared to transgender people, cisgender white folks like Stewart tend to have a flawed understanding of what discrimination (especially based on being transgender) actually means, therefore he might be ridiculously obtuse and not see the transphobia in his comments, even when it's obvious to all of us.

Now, that 2002 one was really bad, and I'll be honest I can't see how someone even as obtuse as he is with transphobia couldn't pick up on that as being transphobic. And this certainly doesn't condone it, but I think part of the reason he went ahead when it despite this is that it was earlier on in his show, so he was trying harder to fit the mold of mainstream politics and comedy. Perhaps he was more transphobic back then as well, it's certainly possible. However, I think that over time his transphobic comments have at least become less pronounced to the point where Stewart, lacking perception on the issue due to his position of privilege, probably doesn't even realize that something in the script is transphobic. I think that at the very least, the fact that he defended Chaz Bono shows that he's not actively trying to endorse transphobic things, even if Chaz is a white man. But I agree with you, he should apologize for previous comments, and he definitely needed to be less obtuse in the future.

[Ocean Seal]

For me personally I think Jon Stewart is as bad a liberal as Bill Maher. Though Jon is a lot funnier and I used to watch his show when I was a reactionary. The liberalism pushes me away and the prejudiced garbage pisses me off, but overall the show is funny.
Maher goes for more for shock value though which really makes conservative people more furious and moderates more conservative. His comedy is very status quo, if you are already a liberal you'll enjoy it, it you are a moderate, you'll be more conservative, and if you are a conservative it'll make you angry.

[KurtFF8]

Maher goes for more for shock value though which really makes conservative people more furious and moderates more conservative. His comedy is very status quo, if you are already a liberal you'll enjoy it, it you are a moderate, you'll be more conservative, and if you are a conservative it'll make you angry.

Maybe at one point, but either Maher has begun to troll liberals with his anti-Islam rants, or has himself become much more reactionary over the past few years.

It's probably both though because his shock value thing is his persona and he wants to push that more

[Tenka]

I only watched one of those clips Red Rose linked and I agree his "comedy" is immensely transphobic. Obviously since it's meant to appeal to transphobic masses of people who think there's something inherently amusing about cross-dressing or gender dysphoria. Sickening.

Also I hate Jon Stewart's face, and the laugh track that goes with it (or is that a live audience? no matter...).

There's something sinister about these "progressive" funny-men.

[Comrade #138672]

He is a liberal who picks on conservatives (and sometimes other liberals). That's pretty much it.

[Nakidana]

He's a liberal who's entertained a lot of scumbags on his show. BUT I admit I do watch it from time to time, the absurdities of American politics can be pretty entertaining and I enjoy some of the recurring segments (e.g. "The War on Christmas").

Personally I can't stand Maher's militant atheism so if I had to choose between the two of them the Daily Show would come out top.

[Five Year Plan]

Like most liberals, he's the worse evil. Not to mention smug.

[blake 3:17]

I loved watching him in 2003 and thereabouts -- don't watch much him anymore. Some of his correspondents are very good -- I love Samantha Bee.

[RedThinker]

I love him. Living in Denmark the shows comes late but i am having a laugh every time i watch it!
Personally i had a lot of free time in the last American election period and he did amazing, in finding all the holes, all the stupidity and all the bullshit, both campaigning parties where trying to put on the people. He used it and twisted it in a such amazing way, that you could only laugh at it.
Nice finally to see a more criticizing point of view of whats going on in the American Government.

[DoCt SPARTAN]

He is pretty funny bashing on other politicians & can really show you the other perspective of political issues...

...But other then that just another liberal spokesman

This is a little off topic, but my dad went to Lawrenceville High School in NJ with Jon. They played soccer together, and he said he was funny as hell.. One day he called my house and ask my dad to go get a drink and catch up.

[Ele'ill]

hate

[Sinister Intents]

hate

This is something you and I know very well, but could you elaborate for me comrade. Voice your hate!

[Jimmie Higgins]

I hope this is the appropriate subforum to post this thread. Anyways, I'm curious: what do you guys think of Jon Stewart, and his show, his politics? Personally, he gets me cracking up, sure, but politically... well, he's no help as a liberal, to put it as nicely as I can. What about you guys? How would you judge him?Either the Colbert or Stewart shows can be sharp when they are sharp, but can also be mediocre and trite. They are best when their aim is at our "superiors" and the supposed experts (I think Stewart's show has gotten sloppier on this ever since it became a cultural phenomena in the Bush years and IMO Jon Stewart then felt morally obligated to interview policy wonks selling books and propaganda - to put some vitamin's in the sugar:rolleyes:). I think that's the appeal of the show - at least that's what I enjoy about it.

I saw one the other day making a pretty easy, but effective show of the hypocrisy in the media in racist arguments about the guy from the Seahawks being a "thug" while on the other hand everyone laughs about Mayors and politicians threatening people's lives and acting like "thugs". I think I tend to enjoy Colbert more (or at least groan less) because he is generally "pure" satire and doesn't moralize to his audience, but just mocks those in power.

Stewart's politics are liberal, but more specifically I think they are of a very moderate sort of liberalism that (in a de-facto way) excuses the status-quo by appealing to the idea of having sober policy experts run things rather than "ideologues" of any kind. This could be seen as the big weakness in his tea-party parody rally (where IMO he misread his own audience) and instead of attacking the absurd idiocy of the right at the height of Glenn-beckness, called for moderation and being quiet. But also pretty frequently he attacks protesters of any kind as if it's the loudness and audacity to take to the streets that makes the Tea Party hated, not their racist and pro-rich politics. These jokes usually don't go over as well as cracks at stupid officials, but he continues to make them which I think means that he's really giving his perspective that "the masses" should only have a role of supporting "good experts" but shouldn't assert themselves. It's a very traditional middle class stance: hate those on top, fear the potential "unruliness" when the regular people begin to express themselves.

[Prometeo liberado]

A bore, like the rest of that horrible network.
One word posts there Marie3l? Tsk, tsk.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I like Jon Stewart as a comedian and he seems like a reasonably decent person, but his politics are far from perfect (he calls himself a "socialist" but I think he means that kind of softcore Fabian variety) and yah he and Colbert both made some jokes which are bad from the standpoint of transgender rights. While they obviously should get called on that shit, I don't see why it's then worth it to boycott their work or deny that they are funny altogether. Marx made some very inappropriate racist jokes about Lassalle and I think we can say Marx was wrong to make jokes like that while still recognizing that his social and economic theory was profound and sharp. It's still something worth calling them on - they have a moral obligation not to contribute more to the systemic oppression of transsexuals especially as folks who claim to mock the powerful on behalf of the powerless. They should also have transsexual guests on to create more understanding among the middle class liberal college kids who watch their show. But they don't so I think the suspicion which many radical transgenders have of their politics is deserved. It's also notable that while they are critical of the Democrats, they still seem to think on some level that the liberal message in this country is a "viable" one no matter how defined by corporate interests the DNC and liberal politics in this country is.

If there's a virtue to his show, it's in calling various interests in our society on their bullshit to a much wider audience than most open Communists could ever hope to reach, even if they do it from a more liberal/right soc dem standpoint



One word posts there Marie3l? Tsk, tsk.

Can I lay down a "citizen's infraction"

[Nakidana]

I loved watching him in 2003 and thereabouts -- don't watch much him anymore. Some of his correspondents are very good -- I love Samantha Bee.

She's okay, Jessica Williams rules though.