Pushing the Proletariat

[RedSunrise]

This is a dumb, ridicules, bad, not-well-thought idea. But I would still like to know what you think and if you can teach me from this idea (Go learning section!)

Since countries (like USA) are filled with ignorant libertarians and non-active working class, why not remove the morphine from the system? If a decent number of leftists wormed their way into the current political system and gained influence, couldn't we fight with/for the liberations to remove things like Welfare?

Now an obvious question would be: Why would we want to do that? Well, if we remove the numbing agent from the proletariat. If we remove the only thing keeping them passive. Wouldn't they realize capitalism sucks and we could start a revolution?

I am absolutely against the current bourgeois democracy and I hate the idea of voting. But if we could infect the system, make it horrible, and start a revolution..... (Obviously the "leftist politicians" would not start the revolution, they would be "overthrown" and get what they wanted.)

If my intent is still not clear: Monopolize the revolution. Pose as liberation (and other such groups). Take control of the country/politics (As if we are reformists). Expose the working class to true Capitalism by giving the libertarians what they want. Most (maybe even some libs too!) realize capitalism sucks. Then Viva La Resistance!

To back up this idea with history: In America post-civil war, there were mass workers movements, yes? There were a large number of riots/mobs/boycotts/etc. Libertarians want to go back to how the country was when it was founded. Let's do that! Except now us leftists are prepared to organize and begin the revolution when the workers movements come around (If you catch my drift). But I would also suspect that the movements would be more aggressive, since we are now so used to "good" working conditions.

[Taters]

Um, make things horrible so they'll support us? Solid logic.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Or we could just worm our way towards security clearances and just pop all the bad guys in the head but no one ever wants to do my idea. :crying:

Anyway, what you're describing is called infiltratism and I have mixed views about it. Plus, I get food stamps, and such, of course I'd be against its removal.

[RedSunrise]

Or we could just worm our way towards security clearances and just pop all the bad guys in the head but no one ever wants to do my idea. :crying:

Anyway, what you're describing is called infiltratism and I have mixed views about it. Plus, I get food stamps, and such, of course I'd be against its removal.

:laugh: I love your idea :laugh:

Anyway, I figured it had been thought of before, but thanks for the "official" name! I too have mixed feelings, but I feel it is the only way to have a revolution in the USA. And you being against food stamp removal is kinda the point ;)

[motion denied]

Don't you think capitalism is already bad enough for the working class?

[RedSunrise]

Don't you think capitalism is already bad enough for the working class?

How many revolutions? How many people would even consider leaving this state of life? Now rewind a little over 100 years before now when there was none of the programs we have now. There was unrest then: we want unrest now. So let's remove the programs. I think it is bad, but obviously it isn't bad enough for anyone to get off their rears and fight.

[Captain Red]

If you take away the welfare the ghettos in the USA will probably grow you'll just have more people selling drugs

[motion denied]

I rewound a hundred years and, in my country, workers didn't even receive minimum wage, nor were they entitled to vacations. Let's not talk about health care. Actually, there were massive workers' neighborhoods, full of poor-as-fuck hungry men and women.

Their lives improved a little since then. Still, some are virtually the same. Their lives are pretty 'unresty'. You're delusional.

[#FF0000]

This kind of idea is hella common with folks who are new to the entire communism thing and who don't really have a background in history, leading them to think "more pain = more uprisings" which isn't actually true.

Neoliberalism has been doing a fine job of putting workers back 100 years, and, surprise, hardly any "popular uprising" at all. Which isn't surprising -- because putting people in a position where they're less able to fight for their side and more dependent on the scraps we're given isn't going to make them more eager to fight for a change.

[Sasha]

the long road through the institutions meets scourged earth politics? :rolleyes:

nope, stupid idea (and very patronizing, i assume your not on welfare huh?) you cant pull yourself up on your bootstraps if you dont have boots.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/your-brain-on-poverty-why-poor-people-seem-to-make-bad-decisions/281780/

[RedSunrise]

This kind of idea is hella common with folks who are new to the entire communism thing and who don't really have a background in history, leading them to think "more pain = more uprisings" which isn't actually true.

Neoliberalism has been doing a fine job of putting workers back 100 years, and, surprise, hardly any "popular uprising" at all. Which isn't surprising -- because putting people in a position where they're less able to fight for their side and more dependent on the scraps we're given isn't going to make them more eager to fight for a change.

Hmm... Interesting. It seems to be similar in the opposite direction too. If people aren't dependent on scraps (Or think they aren't), won't want to fight either. Although, I am probably wrong seeing as I am the worst option when it comes to understanding the human psyche.

How, then, should we make the proletariat revolutionary? An explanation or a point to a book would be grand. Great comment and insight #FF thanks :thumbup:

[Sinister Intents]

If you take away the welfare the ghettos in the USA will probably grow you'll just have more people selling drugs

Then more people getting arrested...
Capitalism fucking sucks already, why make it worse?

[#FF0000]

Hmm... Interesting. It seems to be similar in the opposite direction too. If people aren't dependent on scraps (Or think they aren't), won't want to fight either. Although, I am probably wrong seeing as I am the worst option when it comes to understanding the human psyche.

Yo workers in western Europe are generally better off than Americans and they torch their cities when bus fare goes up a little bit. I think your idea that "people who are better off are less likely to fight" is mistaken. Being more comfortable makes it easier to say "welp fuck this actually" and go on strike, or occupy a city center, or whatever.

I mean, obviously relative comfort isn't all there is to it. There's a strong culture and history of fighting for the commons in Europe that was p. handily erased in America, and I feel like that's a pretty important aspect of it. Plus there's a number of very active and very visible radical organizations in much of Europe, so.


the long road through the institutions meets scourged earth politics? :rolleyes:

nope, stupid idea (and very patronizing, i assume your not on welfare huh?) you cant pull yourself up on your bootstraps if you dont have boots.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/your-brain-on-poverty-why-poor-people-seem-to-make-bad-decisions/281780/

I'll go a step further and assume OP doesn't have to work to support himself either. Might be harsh but things are extremely rough out there right now and I can't help but take serious issue with the idea that folks aren't getting riled up because they just have it too good.

[Comrade Jacob]

Um, make things horrible so they'll support us? Solid logic.

Capitalism is doing it for us already.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Capitalism is doing it for us already.

Capitalism makes things worse, but it also promotes short-sighted thinking among not just businesspersons but workers as well (not without logic, as workers are in a perpetually precarious state and even the richest could arguably be seen as victims of their own fear). So the question is, will the social and environmental damage done by capitalism be reversible by the time we reach the boiling point of revolution?
I for one sure as hell hope it will, and while I do see trying to manipulate the masses by worsening conditions as elitist and even dangerous, I have to wonder if patience is really a virtue on the subject of revolution.