Everyone is so mean to each other...

[Skyhilist]

This is somewhat frustrating I think because this forum has some good and worthwhile discussions, but then with some threads and some posters people are just such assholes to each other when it's really undeserved and it almost makes me want to avoid reading the threads on hear because holy shit it's just stressful to read so many of them the way that people talk to each other. I saw one thread recently where the OP, while I didn't agree with them, was not really reactionary and seemed to have good or at least innocuous intentions and the reply to them with the most "thanks" started with "fuck off if you think..."

Seriously, come on. I mean can't we at least have most thread without people calling each other idiots or implying that someone else is inferior? And a lot of the time it's rudeness to people who have good intentions but are genuinely misinformed. Would this people have been willing to learn if people had been polite and not total dicks? Maybe, but certainly most of them don't want to learn after receiving hostile responses.

I understand this is the Internet, but it's really depressing how rude people on here are to each other, and it's he great if the people who do this could at least try to tone it down a bit. I doubt this post will do much to change anyone but maybe it will, so, food for thought.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I'm just as rude and unbearable in real life as I am on here. There's a reason I don't have friends. Being a dick is good. People who are wrong are wrong. There's no place for 'respectable discussion'.

[tallguy]

I'm just as rude and unbearable in real life as I am on here. There's a reason I don't have friends. Being a dick is good. People who are wrong are wrong. There's no place for 'respectable discussion'.The thing is, you see, I don't believe you.

Being a dickhead is being a dickhead. Being a dickhead has no inevitable correlation with being right. If anything, it is indicative of a weak argument hiding behind the dickheadedness rather than the reverse. And I bet you wouldn't have the guts to talk to people in real life you you do on here safe behind the anonymity of an internet forum. People like you really have found your spiritual home on places like this because it allows you to be the unpleasant people you don't have the guts to be in real life. People who do speak to people in real life like you do on here would not be the kind of people who would bother coming on here to do it anonymously.

Though, I do believe you when you say you have few friends in the real world. There is more than a whiff of social inadequacy hiding behind your petty agressions on this forum and, whilst that aggression may only fully reveal itself on here behind the safe anonymity of a forum, I suspect you bring the inadequacy hiding behind it already fully formed from the real world.

It's all a bit sad and pathetic really.

[#FF0000]

The thing is, you see, I don't believe you.

Being a dickhead is being a dickhead. Being a dickhead has no inevitable correlation with being right. If anything, it is indicative of a weak argument rather than the reverse. And I bet you won't have the balls to talk to people in real life you you do on here safe behind the anonymity of an internet forum. People like you really have found your spiritual home on places like this because it allows you to be the unpleasant people you don't have the balls to be in real life. People who do speak to people in real life like you do on here would not be the kind of people who would bother coming on here to do it anonymously.

It's all a bit sad and pathetic really.

Naw, I think there's a subtle difference between people who are hella "unpleasant" irl and online, and people who are just unpleasant online and Takayuki is definitely one of those people who strikes me as someone who is legit in their abrasiveness through and through and that is why Takayuki is great.

edit: also how is what you're talking about any different from what you're doing right now with the whole "telling off strangers on the internet" thing. In fact that's kind of your MO.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

The thing is, you see, I don't believe you.

Being a dickhead is being a dickhead. Being a dickhead has no inevitable correlation with being right. If anything, it is indicative of a weak argument rather than the reverse. And I bet you won't have the balls to talk to people in real life you you do on here safe behind the anonymity of an internet forum. People like you really have found your spiritual home on places like this because it allows you to be the unpleasant people you don't have the balls to be in real life. People who do speak to people in real life like you do on here would not be the kind of people who would bother coming on here to do it anonymously.

It's all a bit sad and pathetic really.

Oh yeah, why the fuck aren't you restricted yet, Mr. Against Mass-immigration?

It has fuck all to do with arguments. That's typical silly rubbish trying to inflate your own opinions as somehow worthy. The manner in which an argument is made has nothing to do with the strength or weakness of it. Most of the time I don't even bother to argue because I don't believe in arguments and I do not think any debate will convince anyone participating directly in it of anything, because anyone feeling under attack will naturally just feel that their opinion is reënforced.

[tallguy]

Oh yeah, why the fuck aren't you restricted yet, Mr. Against Mass-immigration?

It has fuck all to do with arguments. That's typical silly rubbish trying to inflate your own opinions as somehow worthy. The manner in which an argument is made has nothing to do with the strength or weakness of it. Most of the time I don't even bother to argue because I don't believe in arguments and I do not think any debate will convince anyone participating directly in it of anything, because anyone feeling under attack will naturally just feel that their opinion is reënforced.
I see you can dish it out, but don't cope quite so well in taking it back eh?

Well, well, well, what a surprise...

[Sabot Cat]

Not to step on anyone's toes here, but I think it's because of the really lax enforcement of the rules against flaming. I was actually flabbergasted to learn RevLeft had rules against that sort of thing. Several forums I've been a party to are pretty much more civil because of it, which is strange as there's more of an ideological variety pretty much anywhere else (not that that's a good thing).

[tallguy]

Not to step on anyone's toes here, but I think it's because of the really lax enforcement of the rules against flaming. I was actually flabbergasted to learn RevLeft had rules against that sort of thing. Several forums I've been a party to are pretty much more civil because of it, which is strange because there's more of an ideological variety pretty much anywhere else (not that that's a good thing).
I am bound to agree with the above and also note the delicious irony of a forum such as this, ostensibly espousing a fundamentally egalitarian view of man's relationship to man whilst, at the same time, being one of the most culturally and intellectually fascistic forums I have come across in terms of the way in which posters who dare to go even slightly "off-message" are dealt with.

It would be quite funny if it wasn't quite so sad.

[#FF0000]

It would be quite funny if it wasn't quite so sad.

you feel quite strongly about internet forums you have only just joined, I notice.

also I don't think having rules about who can post on a site is "fascistic" at all and I'm kind of confused as to why one would think that.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I see you can dish it out, but don't cope quite so well in taking it back eh?

Well, well, well, what a surprise...

ok


I consider myself both a socialist and also against mass immigration. Such immigration policies are a tool of the capitalist class used to great effect to play workers in different regions off one another. Anyone who objects is labelled as xenophobic/racist and so all debate get conveniently shut down. The liberal left are even inadvertently complicit in this shutting down of debate into the bargain, which only adds insult to injury. Mass immigration between allied socialist countries who have the same pay and conditions for workers would not be a problem. But that is not the context in which most mass immigration between capitalist countries takes place.

[Taters]

Several forums I've been a party to are pretty much more civil because of it, which is strange as there's more of an ideological variety pretty much anywhere else (not that that's a good thing).

How do you figure we've got LESS "ideological variety"? " We all oppose capitalism" i suppose
We've got ultralefts, we've got nihilists, we've got illegalists, we've got orthodox trots, we've got hoxhaites, we've got brezhnevites, we've got kautskyites, we've got left leninists, we've got bordigists, we've got syndicalists, we've got this and that and the other
Don't say for a second we don't have variety

[The Feral Underclass]

people are just such assholes to each other when it's really undeserved

I find that most of the time it is very much deserved.

[ed miliband]

I do try to be politer than I am tbh, depends on context. I used to love reading the libcom forums before they decided to go all anarcho-PR and turn into righteous activists. The rudeness there was great.

[The Feral Underclass]

I think on a board such as RevLeft where 'feelings' are discussed at great length by half the active membership, who appear to use the forum as some kind of self-help tool, the idea of being nice and inoffensive seems to be particularly important.

[Quail]

I get angry at a lot of stuff on this forum, but I do make an effort to make my arguments in a relatively polite way. Instead of calling someone a "fucking idiot" it makes sense to me to explain why what they wrote was problematic or silly (though I appreciate and understand that not everyone has the patience for that). Next time you read a post of mine where I'm calmly explaining why something is sexist (for example) you can bet I'm actually sat at my laptop swearing. I just don't write that stuff down. :lol:

[cyu]

Instead of calling someone a "fucking idiot" it makes sense to me to explain why what they wrote was problematic or silly. Next time you read a post of mine where I'm calmly explaining why something is sexist (for example) you can bet I'm actually sat at my laptop swearing. I just don't write that stuff down.

I HATE YOUR FACE!

j/k, you know we love you :lol::wub:

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

I sense that most of the content of this thread will be quite ironic...

Heated discussion re politics, online and irl, can often revert to being just plain nasty. You see in the House of Commons, on live debates, newspaper articles and so on. It's something I always try to avoid but when you feel strongly about something and you're hitting what you see as a brick wall of ignorance or a strongly opposing view, it's hard not to get angry and unpleasant.

And, let's face it, most people who aren't you are idiots, right? Yeah? *awkward cough*

[Bostana]

I am bound to agree with the above and also note the delicious irony of a forum such as this, ostensibly espousing a fundamentally egalitarian view of man's relationship to man whilst, at the same time, being one of the most culturally and intellectually fascistic forums I have come across in terms of the way in which posters who dare to go even slightly "off-message" are dealt with.

It would be quite funny if it wasn't quite so sad.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/45069410.jpg

[Jimmie Higgins]

I understand this is the Internet, but it's really depressing how rude people on here are to each other, and it's he great if the people who do this could at least try to tone it down a bit. I doubt this post will do much to change anyone but maybe it will, so, food for thought.

I appreciate that. In fact, I originally joined here but stopped posting after a month or two for a couple of years because I was intimidated by the hostility and didn't have the confidence in my own grasp of the politics to stand up for what I thought.

I think subjectively the left in general needs to learn how to debate and discuss things better. Radicals are marginalized and have small audiences and things can get - insular... especially when a struggle goes into decline. More specifically here, we should strive for a little more understanding, openness, and common courtesy if only because for people outside of an urban area or outside of countries with stronger working class politics, a site like this can often be someone's first direct contact with other radicals.

More objectively, I think that part of it is just "the internet" and I honestly don't see that much more snarkiness here than in some movie or game forums or whatnot. Really, some pop-cultrue arguments online make me fear that someone's going to end up dead with an ice-axe in their back for not liking Breaking Bad or for liking Piccard more than Kirk or something. My pop-psychology answer for why this might be is not because (as the common argument goes) anonymity allows people to be the assholes that they truly are but hide IRL (I think it's a misanthropic argument, but also living until my 20s without anyone using the internet has shown me that people don't really have to hide their assholeness in this society), but because communication through text only is sort of like trying to dance with someone while you both are wearing full-body feudal armor with the visor shut over your eyes. For communication, it's clumsy and half-blind: you can't tell where someone is coming from, there are no inflections, no facial or body language cues and so miscommunications or unintended slights get blown up really easy.

[tallguy]

I think it's too generous to describe the tone of some of the posters on here as being merely "intimidating". In doing so, there is an implication that their arguments are perhaps just a bit too lofty and difficult for the poor, ignorant unfortunates who may be passing by. Personally, I don't find the admittedly small (but significant) minority of smug, self-righteous, ideologically holier-than-thou smart-arses on this forum in the least bit intimidating.

I just find them pathetic.

[reb]

It seems like you're the one with the issues, Tallguy, Mr More-Prole-Than-You. Maybe it's because you don't have any arguments? I find it more amusing than sad that you're the one describing people as pathetic. And yes, before you start trying to act all tough guy, I would say this to your face in real life. You constantly resorting to this only shows that you can't really back up your arguments.

[Brotto Rühle]

Its hard to be polite when the jackoff you're talking to rejects facts.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

I'm nicer here than I am in real life (it's easier to vet what you're saying when you're typing it down so you can't unintentionally offend someone, for starters) and IRL i'm told my particular brand of humour can be pretty ascerbic (thankfully it translates poorly over the internet so i've learned not to bother.)

[tallguy]

I'm nicer here than I am in real life (it's easier to vet what you're saying when you're typing it down so you can't unintentionally offend someone, for starters) and IRL i'm told my particular brand of humour can be pretty ascerbic (thankfully it translates poorly over the internet so i've learned not to bother.)
I would suggest you are nicer here because you are nice in real life. The anonymity of internet forums allows people to show their true colours. And, if those colours are negative, in a way that they would not necessarily get away with in real life.

In other words, anonymous internet forums simply allow for a caricatured, magnification of existing traits people already bring with them from outside.

[tallguy]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/45069410.jpg

I'm sorry, but you appear to be harbouring under the misapprehension I actually give a shit what you think of my posts.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Bastards, the lot of you. :cursing:

[tallguy]

Bastards, the lot of you. :cursing::lol:

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think it's too generous to describe the tone of some of the posters on here as being merely "intimidating". In doing so, there is an implication that their arguments are perhaps just a bit too lofty and difficult for the poor, ignorant unfortunates who may be passing by.

Sorry, I didn't mean intellectually intimidating in the sense of "oh they are so knowledgeable" if this comment was in response to what I wrote. I meant intimidating in the sense of hostile and it's hard to brush that off if you are just trying to get a handle on the politics for yourself - at least it was for me.

It's intimidating in the sense of like if you were a transfer student in middle school and still developing your taste in music and you say, "Hey I like that song" and the other students that you are trying to get to know go: "You would, that band sucks!". So at that time I had read maybe two things by Marx, one thing by Lenin etc and people were saying, "That's not what Marx was talking about, idiot!" and I had little ability to judge if they were right, if they are coming from a specific interpretation that was different from how I saw it, or if they were just full of b.s.

[The Feral Underclass]

minority of smug, self-righteous, ideologically holier-than-thou smart-arses

They sound awesome. I want to be one of them!

[tallguy]

Sorry, I didn't mean intellectually intimidating in the sense of "oh they are so knowledgeable" if this comment was in response to what I wrote. I meant intimidating in the sense of hostile and it's hard to brush that off if you are just trying to get a handle on the politics for yourself - at least it was for me.

It's intimidating in the sense of like if you were a transfer student in middle school and still developing your taste in music and you say, "Hey I like that song" and the other students that you are trying to get to know go: "You would, that band sucks!". So at that time I had read maybe two things by Marx, one thing by Lenin etc and people were saying, "That's not what Marx was talking about, idiot!" and I had little ability to judge if they were right, if they are coming from a specific interpretation that was different from how I saw it, or if they were just full of b.s.No, I wasn't having a go at you mate. I know you didn't mean that. It was just after reading your post and seeing that word, it put me in mind of the implied excuse made by others on here that some people (often termed the "lumpen-proletariat" by some on here) are just too dumb-assed or reactionary to understand the finer points of revolutionary left ideology. Which I find to be smug, self satisfied bollocks for the most part.

My apologies if it seemed like that was aimed at you.

[Sabot Cat]

How do you figure we've got LESS "ideological variety"? " We all oppose capitalism" i suppose
We've got ultralefts, we've got nihilists, we've got illegalists, we've got orthodox trots, we've got hoxhaites, we've got brezhnevites, we've got kautskyites, we've got left leninists, we've got bordigists, we've got syndicalists, we've got this and that and the other
Don't say for a second we don't have variety

We have less ideological variety because you can be regulated to your own little forum for having views that clash with the stated intentions of the site. I understand why, but you can't deny that there's less political philosophies being represented consistently as a result.

[Thirsty Crow]

We have less ideological variety because you can be regulated to your own little forum for having views that clash with the stated intentions of the site. I understand why, but you can't deny that there's less political philosophies being represented consistently as a result.
Isolating the fact that there's less political variety implies some kind of a positive evaluation of said variety, no?

I, on the other hand, don't hold such an opinion precisely because any possible productive discussion among radicals rests on the ability not to constantly be put in a position to defend their basic principles.

And I think it is reasonable to assume that discussion would take such a route if liberals, conservatives and other folks were allowed to post in the main forums. The solution to that would be administrative action (for derailing etc etc) which would, in my opinion, alienate those few reactionaries willing to engage in an open debate much sooner than the current policy of OI does.

So, to conclude, even from the standpoint of political variety, the current configuration seems to be optimal (that's not to go into the specifics of deciding what constitutes an offense worthy of restriction; this is a whole another matter).

[Sinister Intents]

I try to only be mean to the restricted. Other than that my posts generally fucking suck, but I'm trying....

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I think it's too generous to describe the tone of some of the posters on here as being merely "intimidating". In doing so, there is an implication that their arguments are perhaps just a bit too lofty and difficult for the poor, ignorant unfortunates who may be passing by. Personally, I don't find the admittedly small (but significant) minority of smug, self-righteous, ideologically holier-than-thou smart-arses on this forum in the least bit intimidating.

I just find them pathetic.

Harr-dee-harr, I am much amused by your perplexing characterisations of me, TG The Dodgerist. :laugh:

[Comrade Jacob]

I'd say I'm fairly consistent when it comes to how polite I am on here to real-life.
As in somewhat polite.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I personally love the douchebaggery on the forum because if it wasn't for the overtly serious and the socially awkward (I guess I never got the memo that being a jerky nerd turd was "cool") then this forum would probably be way less fun. I think it's hilarious to see people, whom, really want to just convey a simple message of say "you're wrong and stupid and I don't like you, pout," but then go on to write something way more drawn out and pedantic for no real reason other than mental masturbatory satisfaction. It's like a watching a monkey riding bicycle, it's meaningless to them but it's so adorable to me. ^-^

I just can't feature getting so invested and emotive as cockery seems to be. Who cares. I like to be like intellectual quicksand because it's so frightfully hilarious to see people try to be mean to me. But, the thing is, Batman, there's nothing you can do to me I genuinely don't care if I'm wrong, look like an idiot, etc. The topic at hand usually becomes secondary when I personally have encountered the Grumpy Gills Club.

http://i.imgur.com/baqdSGD.gif

[Bostana]

I'm sorry, but you appear to be harbouring under the misapprehension I actually give a shit what you think of my posts.

You're a new level of stupid dude.
You, essentially, just took what i said and said it back to my

[Landsharks eat metal]

I just want to mention that you don't always know where people are coming from and how being rude to them might make them feel. I know a lot of people think it's a joke nd everyone should be able to laugh it off, but that can be hard for some people. Like me for instance. People here re almost always nice to me, but when I see excessive flaming of other members, I don't know if I can trust that will always be the case. I've had plenty of people in my life who got pissed off at me and hurt me for reasons I don't understand, so overt aggression can create an uncomfortable environment for me, to the point where sometimes I start crying when someone near me is yelling IRL. I think a little sensitivty to others' needs would be a wonderful thing.

[Queen Mab]

All of you are so weird.

[IBleedRed]

I'm just as rude and unbearable in real life as I am on here. There's a reason I don't have friends. Being a dick is good. People who are wrong are wrong. There's no place for 'respectable discussion'.

Hence why the left is weak and irrelevant

[Remus Bleys]

Hence why the left is weak and irrelevant
thats a really stupid analysis. "So Marx, why do you think we aren't popular/ have a revolution yet?" "Definitely not the movements of capital, its because we were mean to Prodhoun!"

[IBleedRed]

thats a really stupid analysis. "So Marx, why do you think we aren't popular/ have a revolution yet?" "Definitely not the movements of capital, its because we were mean to Prodhoun!"
Nah, it's because the people here can't relate to normal, working-class people without coming off as rude, snobby, deluded, or otherwise utterly detached. RevLeft is an Ivory Tower. Sad but true. If this forum is representative of the sorts of people leading the struggle all over the world, then it's no wonder we're marginalized.

[The Feral Underclass]

All of you are so weird.

FEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllliiiinnngggsssss! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBcHUe4WeQ)

[The Feral Underclass]

Hence why the left is weak and irrelevant

If you think people being rude to each other is the reason the left is weak and irrelevant then you need to do something about getting some perspective.

[Sabot Cat]

Isolating the fact that there's less political variety implies some kind of a positive evaluation of said variety, no?

No, it doesn't. Stating that the sky is blue doesn't mean I think that's a good thing. Moreover, my point was that it's odd there's more conflict here because the variety of opinions is not as broad as other forums.


I, on the other hand, don't hold such an opinion precisely because any possible productive discussion among radicals rests on the ability not to constantly be put in a position to defend their basic principles.

And I think it is reasonable to assume that discussion would take such a route if liberals, conservatives and other folks were allowed to post in the main forums. The solution to that would be administrative action (for derailing etc etc) which would, in my opinion, alienate those few reactionaries willing to engage in an open debate much sooner than the current policy of OI does.

So, to conclude, even from the standpoint of political variety, the current configuration seems to be optimal (that's not to go into the specifics of deciding what constitutes an offense worthy of restriction; this is a whole another matter).

I said that I already understood the reasons why, so I'm not sure who you're arguing against.

[IBleedRed]

If you think people being rude to each other is the reason the left is weak and irrelevant then you need to do something about getting some perspective.

You can be rude to your fellow radicals all you like, but remember that we need to appeal to the class as a whole, most of whom are not radical leftists. You've never worked on a campaign, have you? You don't win people over this way.

[Sinister Intents]

There are lots of nice people here though :) Red Rose is nice, LEM is nice, Psycho is nice, 9mm is nice, et cetera

[Remus Bleys]

Nah, it's because the people here can't relate to normal, working-class people without coming off as rude, snobby, deluded, or otherwise utterly detached. RevLeft is an Ivory Tower. Sad but true. If this forum is representative of the sorts of people leading the struggle all over the world, then it's no wonder we're marginalized.
1. "Nah man I am gonna go ahead and just restate what you were criticizing because that totally acts as a rebuttal even though it s a statement which you have already contradicted because i can't be assed to write a response but i want to reply and not seem like a dummy"
2. Fuck Revleft. Do you really and truly think that working class people aren't active because revleft is full of assholes? Really? Does that explain before revleft, does that explain everything? This analysis is stupid. Do you think Marx held back in order to be popular? No, he didn't, and good thing he didn't, else we would lack all of his observations/findings/scripture. This is an instance of the infantile nature of the democratic fetish.

FEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllliiiinnngggsssss! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBcHUe4WeQ)
link no work
edit: just saw this

You can be rude to your fellow radicals all you like, but remember that we need to appeal to the class as a whole, most of whom are not radical leftists. You've never worked on a campaign, have you? You don't win people over this way. Shall we adopt homophobia, sexism, racism, support for war, etc? And these people aren't my fellow radical leftists. OR maybe they are left-wing (after all that spectrum is bourgeois) and Im just communist.

[IBleedRed]

1. "Nah man I am gonna go ahead and just restate what you were criticizing because that totally acts as a rebuttal even though it s a statement which you have already contradicted because i can't be assed to write a response but i want to reply and not seem like a dummy"
2. Fuck Revleft. Do you really and truly think that working class people aren't active because revleft is full of assholes? Really? Does that explain before revleft, does that explain everything? This analysis is stupid. Do you think Marx held back in order to be popular? No, he didn't, and good thing he didn't, else we would lack all of his observations/findings/scripture. This is an instance of the infantile nature of the democratic fetish.

link no work
edit: just saw this
Shall we adopt homophobia, sexism, racism, support for war, etc? And these people aren't my fellow radical leftists. OR maybe they are left-wing (after all that spectrum is bourgeois) and Im just communist.

lulz you don't have to compromise or become a reformist in order to be practical when it comes to educating people about and agitating for socialism. The tactic of throwing people head-first into the ice water won't work most of the time except with those who are already very angry and very prone to radicalization.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

There are lots of nice people here though :) Red Rose is nice, LEM is nice, Psycho is nice, 9mm is nice, et cetera

I'm not nice? Pffft, ok.

[Remus Bleys]

lulz you don't have to compromise or become a reformist in order to be practical when it comes to educating people about and agitating for socialism. The tactic of throwing people head-first into the ice water won't work most of the time except with those who are already very angry and very prone to radicalization.
lulz man thats why marx was so "moderate" writing the manifesto. We can't seem to radical or head first.

I agree that you dont yell and scream at someone in real life if they don't understand the most radical things at first, but to hide these positions is asinine.

[Sinister Intents]

I'm not nice? Pffft, ok.

Yes you are ^-^ I could list many many users haha

[Fourth Internationalist]

Do you think Marx held back in order to be popular? No, he didn't, and good thing he didn't, else we would lack all of his observations/findings/scripture.
Matthew, Marx, Luke, and John, eh?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

lulz you don't have to compromise or become a reformist in order to be practical when it comes to educating people about and agitating for socialism. The tactic of throwing people head-first into the ice water won't work most of the time except with those who are already very angry and very prone to radicalization.

Revleft is the epicentre of radicalisation, of agitation for socialism? Is this the place where real practical struggle occurs? Revleft has fuck-all to do with these realities in the larger scope. Admittedly, it is still better than the circle-jerk newspaper-trotting of a majority of 'leftist parties', but that's hardly worthy of celebration, that's like being less shitty than cerebral haemorrhage.

[cyu]

Matthew, Marx, Luke, and John, eh?

There's gotta be an awesome joke in there, if only I weren't so bad with making puns out of the other names

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

Matthew, Marx, Luke, and John, eh?

"Then he said to them, "labour was made for people, not people for labour."" Marx 2:27

[The Feral Underclass]

Marx was the biggest flammer (as in a person who flames, not a gay man) that has ever lived.

[Os Cangaceiros]

FEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllliiiinnngggsssss! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBcHUe4WeQ)

Blocked in my country on copyright grounds.

Nice work, asshole.

[cyu]

Marx was the biggest flammer (as in a person who flames, not a gay man) that has ever lived.


Speaking of flamers, I'd have to say Bradley Manning comes across to me as having a hell of a lot more guts than Marx, if not the same analytical experience.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Speaking of flamers, I'd have to say Bradley Manning comes across to me as having a hell of a lot more guts than Marx, if not the same analytical experience.

Wtf? And her name is Chelsea.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Personally speaking I'll usually not say anything on this forum that I wouldn't say to someone in real-life, or at least I try not to. With that being said real-life discussions, esp. ones regarding issues like politics, can often become quite heated and I've said some pretty offensive things before.

Sometimes I've said dick things without even really intending it. I remember sitting next to someone in a college class once who commented to me that she was tired or something, and I replied "oh yeah, a 9.45 class, it's brutal". And I said it in a really sarcastic way (she then explained that she'd had a class prior to the one we were currently sitting in). It was a total dick comment on my part and I have no idea why it even came out of my mouth to this day. I had no reason to interact with that individual in that manner...I didn't even know her.

People sometimes say messed up things. Just gotta roll with the punches.

[cyu]

And her name is Chelsea

Yeah, I went back and forth on that one for a bit, but since I was replying to a post referencing gay men, decided it would make more immediate sense to use a masculine sounding name - these things are hard to compose sometimes :glare:

[IBleedRed]

Marx was the biggest flammer (as in a person who flames, not a gay man) that has ever lived.
I wonder if Marx would get restricted or banned from RevLeft

[The Feral Underclass]

Yeah, I went back and forth on that one for a bit, but since I was replying to a post referencing gay men, decided it would make more immediate sense to use a masculine sounding name - these things are hard to compose sometimes

Erm, no they're not. Chelsea Manning is a woman and called Chelsea, not Bradley. That's pretty simple, really. What you actually chose to do was ignore her gender identification, refer to her as a gender she isn't and call her by a man's name...Awkward.

[Sabot Cat]

Yeah, I went back and forth on that one for a bit, but since I was replying to a post referencing gay men, decided it would make more immediate sense to use a masculine sounding name - these things are hard to compose sometimes :glare:

You can generally get names of people, trans people included, correct if you refer to them by the name they call themselves. Also, trans women aren't gay men. :)

[tallguy]

Ffs

[Marshal of the People]

People here are so mean! Though thanks to all the people who were mean to me I have finally discovered why Stalin conducted all those purges.

[IBleedRed]

Erm, no they're not. Chelsea Manning is a woman and called Chelsea, not Bradley. That's pretty simple, really. What you actually chose to do was ignore her gender identification, refer to her as a gender she isn't and call her by a man's name...Awkward.

Some people don't read the news/aren't aware. It doesn't mean it was deliberate.

[The Feral Underclass]

Some people don't read the news/aren't aware. It doesn't mean it was deliberate.

What's your point?

[IBleedRed]

What's your point?

The point is many people, especially those off of this forum, will still refer to Chelsea as "Bradley", so there's no need for the hand-slapping.

[Sabot Cat]

The point is many people, especially those off of this forum, will still refer to Chelsea as "Bradley", so there's no need for the hand-slapping.

But cyu said that there was deliberation involved in choosing which name to call her, so I don't think the appeal to ignorance is a good defense here. I don't begrudge making a mistake, but I really don't understand the reasoning that went into it and I think we're trying to address that more than anything else.

[The Feral Underclass]

The point is many people, especially those off of this forum, will still refer to Chelsea as "Bradley", so there's no need for the hand-slapping.

Except cyu isn't one of the people you're referring to, he deliberately decided to refer to her as a gay man and by a man's name.

[#FF0000]

Ffs

what

[Remus Bleys]

There's gotta be an awesome joke in there, if only I weren't so bad with making puns out of the other names
http://cpgb.org.uk/assets/images/wwimages/ww991/christ-pantocrator.jpg

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I wonder if Marx would get restricted or banned from RevLeft
Marx and Bakunin would both be banned after an epic flamewar.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Speaking of flamers, I'd have to say Bradley Manning
Dude, really? Her name is Chelsea, and I think you know that. So, wtf?

[Alexios]

I come here for the sectarianism

[Le Socialiste]

Its hard to be polite when the jackoff you're talking to rejects facts.

I can relate...

[Yuppie Grinder]

I'm just as rude and unbearable in real life as I am on here. There's a reason I don't have friends. Being a dick is good. People who are wrong are wrong. There's no place for 'respectable discussion'.

yo i generally agree with your posts but i really hope you're being tongue in cheek here

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I try to be polite when having discussions but I don't really know if I pull it off because I'm not exactly sure how I come across to most people on the forum. I know there's been occasions where real life shizzle has made me frustrated and abrupt. I think I probably posted more when I first came on this site because I was accustomed to bullshit internet aggro and eager to learn regardless. Now I just occasionally get halfway through a post and think 'what the fuck am I trying to achieve with this?' and then don't bother posting it.

[blake 3:17]

People can be really really mean online & I don't think it's a good thing. If it's just honest,OK, but it can escalate into bullying or just nasty talk very quickly.

I've certainly gone there & (most of the time) know to stop. It is takes effort to not just reproduce day to day violence, symbolic or otherwise.

[PhoenixAsh]

I still have to see the first non socialist worker who was convinced to become a socialist by the counter argument "Sjeezz you are so fucking stupid" or "OMG you are a fucking reactionary"

Give new members some slack. Argue...and do it civil. Period. Revleft is supposed to be a forum to change ideas amongst the revolutionary left...and those who are new to it. Right now it is sectarian as fuck and usually the best turn off for revolutionary politics than anything else the bourgeoisie themselves could come up with.

That said...there are members here who have a history together. I do not see a reason to be overly civil to some of the assholes who post here given the (mutual) experiences in the past. And I am totally convinced that some of the members here would eventually be mortal enemies of others after or during an actual revolution.