Right Wing Militias in the US

[!doctor]

Is anyone here concerned about the rise of far-right wing paramilitaries and hate groups here the US? These types of groups are basically like a modern day version of the Sturmabteilung. If their goals are obtained, it could lead to a fascist like, far right wing dictatorship, where many minorities, dissenters, and left wing thinkers would be targeted as enemies of the state. Basically, my point is, should we be concerned about these groups, in the event that they gain some power especially in these troubled economic times, and if the left should form our own militias, kinda like the Rotfrontkämpferbund in Germany in the 20's?
What do you guys think?

[Redistribute the Rep]

These morons don't have the organizational skills to get anything done. And even if they did get a large enough group together to actually make the US government notice, it's no match for the largest military in the world. I wouldn't be too concerned.

[Sabot Cat]

The Weimar Republic had almost no military, and was popularly seen as a foreign imposition by a war that they would have won if not for the Jewish-Masonic-Satanic-Kitten conspiracy against them, lasting all of what, twenty years?

On the hand, the United States has a vast military with some of the most jingoistic citizens (most of which belong to those right-wing militias) in the entire world, who support a centuries old government and constitution. I think that if the U.S. were to ever have another Civil War, all sides would claim to really be the true United States and use the American flag for their opposing civilian governments.

It's apples to oranges, and one should be more concerned about the United States government turning into more of a police state than anything.

[Red Commissar]

Groups like the brownshirts were an extension of an organized political movement. The nutjobs that make up the militia 'movement', while holding really shit views, generally consist of a bunch of white gun nuts who complain about minorities all day and act like tough guys. The ones that do make waves like Hutaree tend to fail coming right out of the gate or end up going loner like Timothy McVeigh.

The fact is the state does enough oppressing of minorities and dissidents on their own that it's not really pertinent for reactionaries to work through extralegal means. They've been successful in passing laws to increase their power under the guise of crime legislation.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I'm not worried about reactionary militias. They're irrelevant, even to the ruling class.

[AmilcarCabral]

I think in order to judge the real reason of why many oppressed americans think that right-wing armed groups is a solution for USA, instead of left-wing organizations. I think we must study an important aspect, which is the personal behaviour patterns of individuals, the philosophy of life, the psychology of people, the behaviour patterns of people.

Because I have noticed that the popular oppressed masses of societies where people are more outgoing, more extroverted and more united like the cubans, venezuelans, bolivians, latin americans, the people of Spain, Italy, China, France etc. tend to be more open minded toward socialism and leftist parties.

While the oppressed masses, the working classes and poor classes and societies where people are more stuck-up, self-abosrbed, and have a more "Self service" mentality like USA and northern parts of Europe, people tend to be more open minded toward capitalist ideology. And maybe one of the major reasons of the rise in these ultra-right wing guerrilla groups might have to do with the introverted, individualist philosophy of life of northern nations like USA and Europe.

However I could be wrong. Another reason and motive for the rise of these ultra-right wing groups might be the extreme ultra-right wing propaganda comeing from all sectors of USA into the minds of young americans, these propaganda networks are: The video and computer games made by Nintendo, Playstations, Xbox, the violent military movies, the corporate pro-war media, the pro-war TV news stations and other sources that might stimulate these sort of Duke Nukem, revenge vigilante mentality of many US citizens of taking justice with their own hands. It's also a sort of cowboy Old Western style ideology. I think Jodie Foster has some libertarian ultra-right wing revenge-vigilante movies like that


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Is anyone here concerned about the rise of far-right wing paramilitaries and hate groups here the US? These types of groups are basically like a modern day version of the Sturmabteilung. If their goals are obtained, it could lead to a fascist like, far right wing dictatorship, where many minorities, dissenters, and left wing thinkers would be targeted as enemies of the state. Basically, my point is, should we be concerned about these groups, in the event that they gain some power especially in these troubled economic times, and if the left should form our own militias, kinda like the Rotfrontkämpferbund in Germany in the 20's?
What do you guys think?

[A Psychological Symphony]

They're almost as irrelevant as us, so no I don't think we should be worried.

[AmilcarCabral]

They are even anti-scientific. How the hell can a small military group can be able to start a revolution in USA without an objective revolutionary situation. They don't even know what an objective revolutionary situation is. Because I think that for a revolution to take place in America there has be a nation-wide crisis where the upper classes experience a harsh economic crisis and the lower classes also experience a real bad crisis. The whole country has to be in a state of shock, like with a hyperinflation, a real fast dollar meltdown or something real big that would grind the whole US economy to a halt



I'm not worried about reactionary militias. They're irrelevant, even to the ruling class.

[Slavic]

They are even anti-scientific. How the hell can a small military group can be able to start a revolution in USA without an objective revolutionary situation. They don't even know what an objective revolutionary situation is. Because I think that for a revolution to take place in America there has be a nation-wide crisis where the upper classes experience a harsh economic crisis and the lower classes also experience a real bad crisis. The whole country has to be in a state of shock, like with a hyperinflation, a real fast dollar meltdown or something real big that would grind the whole US economy to a halt

There are a lot of anti-scientific socialists trying to start a revolutionary situation as well.

[Sea]

The Weimar Republic had almost no military, and was popularly seen as a foreign imposition by a war that they would have won if not for the Jewish-Masonic-Satanic-Kitten conspiracy against them, lasting all of what, twenty years?Hey, don't knock the Weimartians too much. They had probably some of the most advanced musical culture I'm familiar with. Brecht alone is well worth studying German for.

[Future]

Considering that most of these baffoons believe the world is 6,000 years old, I'm not too concerned. I'm surprised they can dress themselves to be quite honest.

[tachosomoza]

They're a bunch of conspiracy theorists and assholes obsessed with weapons and black people. Thankfully they tend to live in the sticks among their ilk and leave the rest of us alone.

[#FF0000]

Most right-wing terrorism comes from "lone wolves" as it is, so I don't really see a reason to be all that frightened of these militias.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Is anyone here concerned about the rise of far-right wing paramilitaries and hate groups here the US? These types of groups are basically like a modern day version of the Sturmabteilung. If their goals are obtained, it could lead to a fascist like, far right wing dictatorship, where many minorities, dissenters, and left wing thinkers would be targeted as enemies of the state. Basically, my point is, should we be concerned about these groups, in the event that they gain some power especially in these troubled economic times, and if the left should form our own militias, kinda like the Rotfrontkämpferbund in Germany in the 20's?
What do you guys think?

Interesting responses so far and I'm a bit surprised because just a couple of years ago there was a lot of concern by folks here about the tea-party being a fascist movement in the US. At any rate I think it's probably more accurate to say that militias are more like proto-fascism or what a modern fascist movement in the US might look like if it developed more.

Like other people I'm not really practically concerned about the militia movement right now because they are still marginal (though they have re-grown in the past decade... I'm not sure if they are at the levels they were at in the 90s though) and unless there is a movement of workers or the oppressed that they then begin to organize against, they are probably going to remain marginal in the near-term.

Also even in the longer-term I'm less worried about them taking over the state than I am them being a credible force that actively takes street-action against movements of (and individual) workers. I think unlike more cartoonish neo-nazis and so on, militias can better take on an air of "organic amurikan (white middle class) resistance" that the state would support more easily as a bullwark against popular movements of workers and the oppressed. If that begins to develop, then workers would need to seriously consider self-defense and worker defense militias - even if more or less ad hoc and to defend against specific threats against immigrants or strike efforts. In the 1930s KKK, American Legion, and new NAZI-inspired armed groups did begin to take on this role in the US - to a lesser extent than in parts of Europe at the time - and lynched strikers as well as targeted demographic groups (like blacks obviously for the KKK, but also "hobo" migrants and homeless depression-era workers). Basically I'm talking about a Greece-like situation of extreem polarization and when the far right isn't just organizing and collecting weapons and media attention, but are taking action to try and put the masses "in their place" through terror.


I think in order to judge the real reason of why many oppressed americans think that right-wing armed groups is a solution for USA, instead of left-wing organizations. I think we must study an important aspect, which is the personal behaviour patterns of individuals, the philosophy of life, the psychology of people, the behaviour patterns of people.I don't know about this. First of all while I don't know the demographics of general members and supporters of these groups, they seem to generally have a pretty middle-class base of support: ex-military, ex-cops, and people who have the time and money to collect weapons and go off to have gun-wank training in the woods. There may be some support amongst workers too, I wouldn't doubt it, but I don't think otherwise anyone in most of these groups would be considered "oppressed" - they seem overwhelmingly white and male even when there is no explicit racial ideological aspect to their views. More generally, beyond demographics, the ideas and ideology of this kind of "the government is oppressing us" organization seems to come out of not a fear of police states, but imagined fear of welfare states. They hate the welfare state and see the government as the one privileging the oppressed over (white people) "makers" and "taxpayers" but don't hate the police state in general - they think it's not effective enough and so you need to stockpile weapons because the government will soon collapse and then the "others" are all going to come and take your stuff and rape your family. The rehtotic about the government taking weapons away is again, the government privileging the poor while disarming the "real Americans" (middle class white people).


Because I have noticed that the popular oppressed masses of societies where people are more outgoing, more extroverted and more united like the cubans, venezuelans, bolivians, latin americans, the people of Spain, Italy, China, France etc. tend to be more open minded toward socialism and leftist parties. I don't think pathology is the best way to understand this phenomena. Some parts of latin america also had large fascist movements and Le Pen's party is more popular in France right now than the tea party or militias in the US or the mainstream centrist parties in France. And of course I can't think of a culture more associated with people acting extroverted than Italy and well they invented fascism.


However I could be wrong. Another reason and motive for the rise of these ultra-right wing groups might be the extreme ultra-right wing propaganda comeing from all sectors of USA into the minds of young americans, these propaganda networks are: The video and computer games made by Nintendo, Playstations, Xbox, the violent military movies, the corporate pro-war media, the pro-war TV news stations and other sources that might stimulate these sort of Duke Nukem, revenge vigilante mentality of many US citizens of taking justice with their own hands. It's also a sort of cowboy Old Western style ideology. I think Jodie Foster has some libertarian ultra-right wing revenge-vigilante movies like thatWell American pop-culture is more or less default world-culture (at least in parts of Europe and the Americas - if they want it or not), but I think you are correct that the far right is emboldened by some of the mainstream propaganda. I think it comes more from the mainstream politics than entertainment media though. 30+ years of both parties using the neoliberal color-blind language of a new kind of racism means that even when the ruling class is uneasy about the far right, it can be hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

[Revenant]

Is anyone here concerned about the rise of far-right wing paramilitaries and hate groups here the US? These types of groups are basically like a modern day version of the Sturmabteilung. If their goals are obtained, it could lead to a fascist like, far right wing dictatorship, where many minorities, dissenters, and left wing thinkers would be targeted as enemies of the state. Basically, my point is, should we be concerned about these groups, in the event that they gain some power especially in these troubled economic times, and if the left should form our own militias, kinda like the Rotfrontkämpferbund in Germany in the 20's?
What do you guys think?

There is also the continuation of Aryan Nordic mythology and fascist ideology in occult circles, which in the last decade with the internet and freedom of information increasing, has multiplied and come clearly to the surface in a range of fairly popular, apparently disconnected ideological convictions centred around suspicion towards progress, and the sense of being misled.

Wealthy libertarians and ultra conservatives, are anti-state so the economic potential for fascist militias to be backed covertly is there aswell, Peter Thiel funded millions to Ron Paul, who was always on Alex Jones' show, he's a controlled opposition to Glen Beck and Fox News type outlets, Paul has many direct link to White supremacist linked individuals and organization, specifically the JBS and others.

I view the deeply conservative wings of the Conservative political class, ex Cold war submarine commanders, ex RAF, remnants of landed gentry etc, the back benchers of the Tory party, and majority of non-progressive capitalists, as being the cause and covertly controlling power.

I'm reading a book called "They thought they were free" a Jewish Journalist from America stays in Konigsberg and get's to know 10 people who lived through Nazism in Germany, it's quite an eye opener to say the least.

A point of interest was how Nazism attacked teachers in Germany, who prior to Nazism were considered stalwarts of the community along with the Priests, a quote from one of the 10 is "Germany bit of it's own head"...

You can view this tendency in action today on any Truth movement, new age, or conspiracy forum or facebook group, but now it's scientists and the education system altogether that is targeted :glare:

[Revenant]

Fascism has interesting connotations and should be more rigorously analyzed in my opinion.

We nowadays tend to have a reified/hypostatized conception of what "it" is, but really it's never been conclusively or definitely identified.

The Latin root word it is derived from has links to our word Fetish, some people say Mussolini's dictatorship (and Hitler's to a degree aswell) was based around the production of illusions, ecstatic dreams, stirring slogans and ostentatious, primal body language, conveyed to provoke a wilful reckless abandonment in the mind of the target...it also roughly means to band together, to fasten, to channel even might be a good way of looking at it, to manipulate then channel human impulses.

I've only really been scanning this but it might be of interest to some people here:
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft0q2n99qh;brand=ucpress